Road Cycling - Like I keep sayin'.....

Why do we get told to hack around on 23mm clinchers pumped up to 110psi, when the pros cruise around on 170psi tubulars?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/?id=ullrich-bike/CH8861

because i don't have a sponsor to give me an £80 tyre each time i get a flat?

fsnl
sparky

because no one wants to take the time to properly
prep/glue a tire to a rim (although Tufo is making this
arguement invalid).
Because they are expensive to manufacture, a pain in the
butt to repair (if you sew them yourself).
On the other hand the ride is superbe, sublime and if you
ride good tubulars you may never go back to clinchers.

Marty

But when I ask for a clincher that I can pump up to at least 140psi (which means I usually have to hunt around for a 20mm), the bike shop guys laugh at me, then tell me the fastest tire is a 23mm, pumped up to no more than 120psi. Bike shop "Eddie Experts" go on about contact patch, side wall deformity, blah blah; then we see the pros with 170psi -- and that's not even Ullrich's time trial bike!?!?!

So, if we keep getting told that 23mm tires at 110 psi are faster than 20mm tires at 150psi, why do I keep seeing the pros using 170psi? :(

That's what P1SSES ME OFF :)

Besides cost and convenience, the pros have different abilities and different priorities than most of us, as well as a stable of mechanics to do the work. I hardly ever use anything skinnier than 700x32 anymore, and it's only partly because I weigh 200+. I'm very slightly slower (not even enough that I can measure it reliably) than I was on 23s, but they're way more comfortable, more stable, last longer and have a larger reservoir of air if I have a slow leak. I'll never go back to 23s.

So you think max air pressure is the primary indication of a tire's quality and rolling efficiency?

So you think max air pressure is the primary indication of a tire's quality and rolling efficiency?

No, I just wanna know why pros don't race, and especially time-trial, on 110psi if it's supposed to be as efficient as the bike shops tell me.

Its called Sales and Marketing...

I have a friend of mine who manages an LBS here in town, I asked him if he had any Tubulars in stock, he immediatley started the by the book sales pitch "well, with the recent advances in clincher technology.............blah blah blah" I'm like "Dude, its me, I know you've never even ridden tubulars before" He laughs and says "i know, sorry man, but we don't have any at the moment"

I have a conspiracy theory: all the tire companies decided a while ago that they'd be much less liable, with reduced tire failures, if every fat hack like me was riding wider, softer tires.

So, they came up with all the 'spin' about wider tires at 110psi because they didn't want all the Joe Publics to have blow-outs, or "roll-offs" (tubulars), or lose it in a corner with a 21mm tire, just to stop us SOBs suing them :)

Well??

Just because they're rated at 170psi doesn't necessarily mean the tires are actually pumped up the high, does it? I've running Vredestein Fortezza clinchers right now that are rated to 175 psi. I only put 120 psi in them. I'd guess that the team mechanic adjusts the tire pressure depending on the road and weather conditions rather than inflating the tires to the max. amount each day.

What do you do when you flat? Walk your bike home? Carry another tire, and glue with you? Neither of those methods would make me any faster! :D

And I thought I was the only one that felt faster with 20-30 extra psi in my clinchers. To hell with physics.

-mark

Pros also use 40000 octane that's so loaded with lead you get stupid just by looking at the fuel. But that doesn't mean we should all drive 4mpg super cars.
I'm no expert but it's like comparing apples and oranges. The design and construction are not the same. For all I know, 170psi tubular might have the same contact patch and everything equal as a 110psi 23c clincher but be 20 grams lighter since it doesn't have a tube.

I typically never ran my sew-ups any higher than 140. Anything higher made for a jarring ride.

geneman, dude, 170psi in those little wheels? Cool! Where can I get a pair, and how much will they set me back?

I typically never ran my sew-ups any higher than 140. Anything higher made for a jarring ride.

True, and its not really the PSI the makes you faster, its the lighter tire, without the added weight of the inner tube, and the lighter outermost section of the rim, because there is no hook to hold the tire bead.

geneman, dude, 170psi in those little wheels? Cool! Where can I get a pair, and how much will they set me back?

I will never reveal my secret. Just pray that you never run into me on the road ... :D

-mark

But when I ask for a clincher that I can pump up to at least 140psi (which means I usually have to hunt around for a 20mm), the bike shop guys laugh at me, then tell me the fastest tire is a 23mm, pumped up to no more than 120psi. Bike shop "Eddie Experts" go on about contact patch, side wall deformity, blah blah; then we see the pros with 170psi -- and that's not even Ullrich's time trial bike!?!?!

So, if we keep getting told that 23mm tires at 110 psi are faster than 20mm tires at 150psi, why do I keep seeing the pros using 170psi? :(

That's what P1SSES ME OFF :)

Vredestein Volante's ($29) tyres in 700cx23 are listed on the sidewall as being good for 145 psi. I've been using Vredestein's for 2-3- years and have come to appreciate them for being well made, durable, and moderately priced.

Vredestein Volante's ($29) tyres in 700cx23 are listed on the sidewall as being good for 145 psi. I've been using Vredestein's for 2-3- years and have come to appreciate them for being well made, durable, and moderately priced.

Actually, I've been meaning to check out the new Vredesteins. A couple of years ago, I'm pretty sure the only tires of theirs that were rated at 145psi were the $45 ones, but their (relatively) new web-site displays several tires rated to 145 or 150psi.

Also, they're not your average 23mm; they seem to have a lower profile, and are probably more like 22mm.

Do they still cut up like they used to?

No, I just wanna know why pros don't race, and especially time-trial, on 110psi if it's supposed to be as efficient as the bike shops tell me.

Actually, I was under the impression that the TDF riders use around 110psi to 120psi. Sometimes even a little less. Is there anyone on the board who knows for sure?

although Tufo is making this
arguement invalid

I've been on their site looking at the training version. Have you ever tried them?

Actually, I've been meaning to check out the new Vredesteins. A couple of years ago, I'm pretty sure the only tires of theirs that were rated at 145psi were the $45 ones, but their (relatively) new web-site displays several tires rated to 145 or 150psi.

Also, they're not your average 23mm; they seem to have a lower profile, and are probably more like 22mm.

Do they still cut up like they used to?
Not sure exactly what you mean by "cut up". I'll guess that you mean the tyre can be cut by various road debris? Well, the short answer is yes I suppose they can be cut by road debris. But, every tyre I've ever used was suceptible to this type of damage. If they're more prone to this than other brands? I don't know the answer. Presently both of my road bikes have Vredesteins on them, both 23's and 25's. I have 1800 miles on one set (the 25's) and I would guess the 23's have about 2300 miles. Neither set is ready for replacement yet. My best guess is they'll be good for 3000-3500 miles. I generally ride in less populated areas than would a city rider. Not country but somewhat rural. My weight is 163lbs and both the 23's and 25's are generally kept at 125 psi. Good luck!

...without the added weight of the inner tube...When did they start making tubulars w/o inner tubes? I have to admit it's been 20 yrs since I rode on 'em. I'd guess that it's the bead that adds to the weight of a clincher.

There are a lot of issues with a tire besides rolling resistance: rotational weight, cornering, wind resistance, ...

I've always run my tires around 135psi regardless of what the manufacture recommends. Right now I'm running Hutchisson Carbon Comps before that Conti Attack/Force.

Vredestein Volante's ($29) tyres in 700cx23 are listed on the sidewall as being good for 145 psi. I've been using Vredestein's for 2-3- years and have come to appreciate them for being well made, durable, and moderately priced.

Don, I couldn't agree more! I have two bikes and the same Verdi's on one bike and they get run at much higher pressure than my Pro Race tires and they feel softer even at that higher pressure. The road feel is great; very connected; there just seems to be something different about those tires. I've grow to trust them so well that Im tempted to leave the seat pack with tube and inflator off the bike, but we all know what will happen if I do that! pissssssssssssss~~~~~~

Not sure exactly what you mean by "cut up".

I had some cheaper Vredesteins a few years ago, and they seemed to be affected more by cuts, in that would stretch and "balloon" around a cut more so than other tires I've used.

And I thought I was the only one that felt faster with 20-30 extra psi in my clinchers. To hell with physics.

-mark
i dont think physics work out to the contrary