# Cyclocross - Optimal Cantilever Wire Angle

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View Full Version : Optimal Cantilever Wire Angle

08-31-09, 11:55 AM
On cantilever brakes, there is a wire that runs from one arm to the other. As you lengthen this wire, the amount of horizontal distance the brakes (cantilever arms) travels based on the same amount of pulling on the brake lever increases.

Is there some optimal length? (Maybe easier to express as angle formed by wire relative to a horizontal line passing between the cantilever arms).

Al Criner
08-31-09, 12:22 PM

Cynikal
08-31-09, 12:24 PM

08-31-09, 12:31 PM
thanks

meanwhile
08-31-09, 12:46 PM
On cantilever brakes, there is a wire that runs from one arm to the other. As you lengthen this wire, the amount of horizontal distance the brakes (cantilever arms) travels based on the same amount of pulling on the brake lever increases.

Is there some optimal length? (Maybe easier to express as angle formed by wire relative to a horizontal line passing between the cantilever arms).

You really need to see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

But in summary -

- The closer the angle between the yoke wire and the horizontal is to zero, the more the force from the brake lever is multiplied in moving the pad inwards (the mechanical advantage aka MA) but the less it will move inwards for a given amount of lever movement

So a flat straddle wire brake can be easier to use if you have low hand strength (perhaps from exhaustion after lots of braking)..

..But you'll have to trade off rim clearance, because the pads will move less for a full lever squeeze

...And/or you'll lose absolute braking maximum power - because the further the cantis move the more pads are squashed and it is the degree of squash that determines absolute braking power at the rim. I.e. there is a conflict between the ease with which you can get maximum braking power, and what that power will be.

So it there isn't a single optimal angle but a continuum, reflecting demands for ease of braking, maximum force at the rim, and clearance. The retro mountain bikers who still use cantis tend to go for a low straddle low rim clearance set up with high MA and high maximum braking. My impression is that crossers tend to go for lots more rim clearance - because cross races are traditionally very muddy - and much less MA.

If you do go for a low straddle to maximize MA, then you should probably fit one of those fork widgets that catch the straddle cable if there's a break - otherwise the straddle can catch in a knobbly tyre and that can be the endo you. So to speak.

Finally, more power to stop the rim can easily be more power to skid rather than brake - narrow cross tyres have much less grip than 2" mtb tyres and grip is the real limit on braking. People confuse mechanical advantage and braking power all the time, but it is actually at least two steps removed.

As Sheldon Brown says, a common mistake is to think that cantis should feel hard and definite. The opposite is true. Brake levers connected to cantis should feel soft and squashy. The squashy feeling comes from the brake pads being squeezed between the canti arms and the rim of the wheel. The more the pad is squashed - the squashier the lever will feel - and the better the braking will be. Never try to adjust your cantilevers so that they feel hard!

flargle
08-31-09, 02:25 PM
@meanwhile, that is a really great post and demystifies the whole thing.

garysol1
08-31-09, 02:40 PM
Thanks for the detailed correct answer meanwhile......

superjohnny
09-01-09, 05:57 PM
I run mine so the angle between the transverse cable and cantilever arm are as close to 90* as possible. For me this means a long t-cable in the front and very short one in the back, but I have different canti brake arms front/back (a low profile in back so i don't hit my calf & wide profile up front). I also have a wider straddle yoke in the front to help get the angle right.

Short answer... make the transverse cable long in front and short in back.

meanwhile
09-04-09, 07:55 AM
Even better than Sheldon Brown, but regrettably without the digrams, Keith Bontrager's v-brake canti comparison, and canti tuning hints:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001004190214/www.bontrager.com/rants/rant_0008_08_01_1998.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20010106212200/www.bontrager.com/rants/rant_0008_08_02_1998.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20010422203409/www.bontrager.com/rants/rant_0008_08_03_1998.html