Advocacy & Safety - Head-on Hit-and-Run by Lycra Scumbag on MUP Today

So I was riding at a slow ~7 mph pace following another cyclist in heavy mixed bike and ped traffic on the MUP today and went to the right to pass some pedestrians walking in the middle of the path, only to encounter this lycra scumbag coming out of nowhere and hammering it at high speed (20+ mph) past the same pedestrians on his far left, directly towards me. So I slow to the point of almost stopping, I'm literally up against a railing on my right, but instead of swerving around me to his right after he passes the peds, the dude demonstrates his lack of handling skills by sliding directly into me with his brakes locked up. Then he tells me I should have seen him and gotten out of his way - no apology at all for being on the wrong side of the path :rolleyes: - and with that he vanishes down the path, leaving me standing there with a skinned and bleeding knuckle from where our handlebars came together.

just thought I'd share, now I feel better!

:)

What a clueless dick. Hope you are OK.

I ride a MUP home sometimes......just increase the mileage, and it is a lot prettier than the streets (Los Gatos Creek for locals), but i find I have to be extra careful and often slow to a crawl because of the mixed use and cluelessnes of some users (not all but many), typical clueless or think they have priority users
* People hammering on a training ride who don't think the should slow down until safe to pass (same as Randya)
* Pedestrians 3 or 4 abreast taking up all of the right lane and half or more of the left.....
* People riding side by on bicyles, takeing more than their lane
* People with dogs on long leahes......who look annoyed that anyone is even close to Fido

As has been noted many times MUP are often scenic, but not always really bike friendly

When you're riding at 7 MPH virtually everyone else can appear as though they're hammering at high speed. Being sheathed in lycra as opposed to a tie dye Phish shirt and billowy cargo shorts, for example, only accentuates that.

Regardless, surely a blockheaded move on his part.

Sorry to hear that Randy :(

If only roadies had the bike handling skillz of your average CM'er.

Here, our lanes a mess on the weekend...runners, bladers and powerangers all
doing whatever they want in any direction, wherever. I avoid at all costs.

Glad you didnt get it worse than you did.

he was up out of the saddle hammering, I've seen this time and time again on the local MUPs, these racer boys want to do their time trials weaving in and out of the other cyclists and pedestrians, and everyone is just supposed to get out of their way.

:rolleyes:

Why do people hammer ANYTHING on MUPS ?
Even runners act indignant if you dont move for them.
Its just a breakdown of common sense and respect of other ppl.
These same offenders will be the first to get angry when the
authoritarian powertrip inevitably happens and signs go up
forbidding their activity.

If only roadies had the bike handling skillz of your average CM'er.



The typical roadie is interested only is going 1) fast, and 2) in as straight a line as possible.

Sadly, roads and trails frequently curve, and they aren't the only souls out there on the streets or path...

Let's not get the panties all twisted about racers. Too often they are confused with posers.

All the really fast riders I know show good sense in moderating their speed for conditions. Though they do their serious rides on the road they easily handle the challenge of riding safely and smoothly on crowded MUPs.

Posers, on the other hand, seek out crowded paths because only there can they find someone to dust.

I ride a MUP home sometimes......just increase the mileage, and it is a lot prettier than the streets (Los Gatos Creek for locals), but i find I have to be extra careful and often slow to a crawl because of the mixed use and cluelessnes of some users (not all but many), typical clueless or think they have priority users
* People hammering on a training ride who don't think the should slow down until safe to pass (same as Randya)
* Pedestrians 3 or 4 abreast taking up all of the right lane and half or more of the left.....
* People riding side by on bicycles, taking more than their lane
* People with dogs on long leashes......who look annoyed that anyone is even close to Fido

As has been noted many times MUP are often scenic, but not always really bike friendly

Last week and the week before, when I rode out to Bay Pines for my lab & doctor's appointment I saw I don't know how many people walking, riding and jogging/running on the Pinellas Trail "out of their lanes" and as noted walking and/or riding 3 or more abreast. Haven't seen too many dog walkers on the section of trail that I ride, but I do see signs that remind dog walkers that the max length that their leashes can be is 6'.

Why do people hammer ANYTHING on MUPS ?
Even runners act indignant if you dont move for them.
Its just a breakdown of common sense and respect of other ppl.
These same offenders will be the first to get angry when the
authoritarian powertrip inevitably happens and signs go up
forbidding their activity.

OK so where do you hammer?

Do it in the street and some SUV driving dunderhead will come flying out of a side street and end your life.
Do it on the MUP and the walk and leash crowd act as walls.

Do it out in the country and either the monied set gets bent out of shape or some ahole with a new sports car flies around a corner and takes you out.

Gee is it any wonder the same guy has won the TdF 7 times in a row... there's no place for anyone to practice hammering.

Now as a side note, obviously this is recreation... yet apparently others can do their recreation and any hardships they cause are just SOL...

:cry:

OK so where do you hammer?


On a designated racing track or closed course, the same place race car drivers hammer.

I would have called the police and filed a report for a hit and run. Glad you ended up with only minor injuries.

I would have called the police and filed a report for a hit and run. Glad you ended up with only minor injuries.

I wonder what the police would say around here if I tried that

Yeah I see these people sometimes. The tone of their "On your left!" is very strained and angry, as if instead of using the MUP, we should all be on the sidelines cheering them on. They should just get a bell, but then they'd lose .10s/mile because it's not aero...

I hammer on MUP's when it's clear to do so, but I also slow down when it's not, because I know the world doesn't revolve around the average speed on my bike computer.

Yeah I see these people sometimes. The tone of their "On your left!" is very strained and angry, as if instead of using the MUP, we should all be on the sidelines cheering them on. They should just get a bell, but then they'd lose .10s/mile because it's not aero...

I hammer on MUP's when it's clear to do so, but I also slow down when it's not, because I know the world doesn't revolve around the average speed on my bike computer.

Exactly.... Theres no reason you can't hammer it on the bike path when theres little to no traffic. I also know to do that I have to get up at the buttcrack of dawn to get there when noone else is. I don't even bother going at 11 AM because I know it will be packed and its not fair to the people on the path, nor is it fair to myself and my workout.

sounds about like the lakeshore path here in Chicago. It's only worth being on early in the morning and in foul, windy weather. Otherwise, you end up basically stopping every 30 seconds.

Pedestrians can be the worst. Why would someone walking to the far right, even off the path, go to their left without checking behind them? Don't know, but it happens all the time.

Here, it seems mostly like fixed-gear dudes hammering along the path who don't like to slow down, because not having brakes makes that particularly annoying.

On a designated racing track or closed course, the same place race car drivers hammer.

Good answer... now if we could just get all the race car drivers off of the shared roads. ;)

Yeah I see these people sometimes. The tone of their "On your left!" is very strained and angry, as if instead of using the MUP, we should all be on the sidelines cheering them on. They should just get a bell, but then they'd lose .10s/mile because it's not aero...

I hammer on MUP's when it's clear to do so, but I also slow down when it's not, because I know the world doesn't revolve around the average speed on my bike computer.

This is what I do too... or take it out to the country were there are long uninterrupted stretches of roadway.

I'm trying to figure out if the OP wanted the lycra-clad poseur to kiss his boo-boo and make it all better? Hit and run implies that some further action needed to be taken. Looks to me the only thing missing was an apology.

I'm trying to figure out if the OP wanted the lycra-clad poseur to kiss his boo-boo and make it all better? Hit and run implies that some further action needed to be taken. Looks to me the only thing missing was an apology.

IMO the guy didn't learn chit and will continue to ride like an ass on the MUP until he seriously hurts someone, and he's not alone.

sounds about like the lakeshore path here in Chicago. It's only worth being on early in the morning and in foul, windy weather. Otherwise, you end up basically stopping every 30 seconds.

Pedestrians can be the worst. Why would someone walking to the far right, even off the path, go to their left without checking behind them? Don't know, but it happens all the time.

Here, it seems mostly like fixed-gear dudes hammering along the path who don't like to slow down, because not having brakes makes that particularly annoying.

Even if you go far on the right, pedestrians are at risk on the lakeshore path. My wife and I were walking down by Hyde Park and she got clipped by a passing cyclist moving at high speed. I was off the pavement entirely and she was on the very right edge. I saw repeated examples of cyclists passing way too close to peds unnecessarily at high speeds and no one bothered to give any warning at all either.

Certainly it sounds like the guy was riding recklessly. He was going too fast. But he was also violating a basic principles passing: pass people on their left (he got that right for the people going in his direction, but not for the people who were walking in your direction--he he should have been on his right side of them), pass when there's a break in oncoming traffic (he didn't), make sure you can pull back into your lane safely (no).

But the OP made one mistake, as well: he passed on the right himself. He should have asked the walkers to move to their right, so he could pass them on their left, or he should have slowed behind them until he was sure it was safe to pass them on their left. Inconvenient, true, but it's the price you pay for riding where there lots of pedestrians. The speed demon would still have been in the wrong, but there probably would have been no collision.

My 2 cents.

IMO the guy didn't learn chit and will continue to ride like an ass on the MUP until he seriously hurts someone, and he's not alone.

You said the handlebars of each bike locked together during the impact? Don't worry - he'll end up doing a nice face-down on the MUP when his carbon bars eventually fail at said impact point.

-Kurt

I saw a MUP once while on vacation at the Cape.

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

"Nobody drives at your speed!"

This bit of Carlin's has to be one of my all-time favorite, automobile-related one liners.

-Kurt

When I, clad in lycra, ride my road bike cautiously past pedestrians on a local greenway, I get passed (same direction) by mountain bikers in cotton careening around blind curves.

It takes all types. I pass them later on the roads.

So I was riding at a slow ~7 mph pace following another cyclist in heavy mixed bike and ped traffic on the MUP today and went to the right to pass some pedestrians walking in the middle of the path, only to encounter this lycra scumbag coming out of nowhere and hammering it at high speed (20+ mph) past the same pedestrians on his far left, directly towards me. So I slow to the point of almost stopping, I'm literally up against a railing on my right, but instead of swerving around me to his right after he passes the peds, the dude demonstrates his lack of handling skills by sliding directly into me with his brakes locked up. Then he tells me I should have seen him and gotten out of his way - no apology at all for being on the wrong side of the path :rolleyes: - and with that he vanishes down the path, leaving me standing there with a skinned and bleeding knuckle from where our handlebars came together.

just thought I'd share, now I feel better!

:)

No excuse for the moron and his excessive speed and lack of handling skills. But I know in my area, you do not pass on the right. You have two culprits here. The rider and the herd taking the middle. It kind of comes down to which way the people were walking...your direction or his. If in your direction, you were both wrong. If in his direction, he was right, but out of control, which makes him wrong.

When I, clad in lycra, ride my road bike cautiously past pedestrians on a local greenway, I get passed (same direction) by mountain bikers in cotton careening around blind curves.

It takes all types. I pass them later on the roads.

Right -- the last time I saw genuinely unsafe passing on a MUP was a couple guys on mountain bikes riding side by side through a tree-lined stretch with blind corners and no runoff options. I was taking it easy and staying behind them, and I saw several moments where they avoided collisions only through sheer luck.

If the OP wants to use the phrase, "lycra scumbag", he should also be ready to use similarly derogatory terms about fixie hipsters, dope-smoking MTBers, wobbly hybrid noobs, skater punks, etc etc...

No excuse for the moron and his excessive speed and lack of handling skills. But I know in my area, you do not pass on the right. You have two culprits here. The rider and the herd taking the middle. It kind of comes down to which way the people were walking...your direction or his. If in your direction, you were both wrong. If in his direction, he was right, but out of control, which makes him wrong.

good luck herding the peds. the most obvious error in the whole scenario is that the LS was riding way too fast for the conditions; putting this in the parlance of traffic laws, he was violating the basic speed rule.

If the OP wants to use the phrase, "lycra scumbag", he should also be ready to use similarly derogatory terms about fixie hipsters, dope-smoking MTBers, wobbly hybrid noobs, skater punks, etc etc...

I might have if one of those other types had run into me, but in this case it was clearly a 'lycra scumbag'

:)

Let's not get the panties all twisted about racers. Too often they are confused with posers.

All the really fast riders I know show good sense in moderating their speed for conditions. Though they do their serious rides on the road they easily handle the challenge of riding safely and smoothly on crowded MUPs.

Posers, on the other hand, seek out crowded paths because only there can they find someone to dust.

word. hilarious MUP antics. some of the work and charity ride teams are comprised of less than stellar 'racer' lycra types, but most exercise good judgement on the MUPs in my experience.

good luck herding the peds. the most obvious error in the whole scenario is that the LS was riding way too fast for the conditions, putting this in the parlance of traffic laws, he was violating the basic speed law.

And that was conceded. But you have not stated which way the peds were walking. If they were walking the same way you were riding, then you also were wrong. Had you passed on the left in that situation, the incident may have never occurred. The same being true if the moron was riding at a reasonable speed and had also been following the rules of the road. I have ridden MUPs and MUTs in several cities. All of them posted rules that say pass on the left.

So it comes down to which way was the herd walking?

the herd was walking every which way, I went right because there were other peds coming towards me in the space I normally would have used to pass on the left.

good luck herding the peds. the most obvious error in the whole scenario is that the LS was riding way too fast for the conditions; putting this in the parlance of traffic laws, he was violating the basic speed rule.

So? It takes more than one person to cause this accident.

When passing someone slower, the safest thing to do is to not pass until there's more than enough space between them and whatever is the next obstacle, whether it's another couple walkers, a blind corner, or an oncoming cyclist.

A blind corner is more difficult to account for, because not only do you have to predict whether you can move over, pass, and get back in time at your pace, but you also need to expect that someone else might come around that corner while you're in the middle of passing. Because of that, I don't bother passing before a blind corner unless there's at least twice the distance that I'd need; any less and I hang back.

Basically, if you're passing someone, you should be able to see well enough ahead that nobody will be able to "come out of nowhere".

ANYWAY... at the actual moment of your collision, you were all the way to your right. You were exactly where you should have been. If the other rider couldn't see you, he was going too fast, and, just as importantly, was not ready to pass the walkers properly.


the herd was walking every which way, I went right because there were other peds coming towards me in the space I normally would have used to pass on the left.

In cases like that, I slow to walking pace and just wait for the herd to sort itself out. It's just like driving through a herd of cows (or maybe cats). Passing on the right really wasn't a good idea, even if it was your only option at that moment. If you had waited another couple moments, your options would've improved.

OK so where do you hammer?

Do it in the street and some SUV driving dunderhead will come flying out of a side street and end your life.
Do it on the MUP and the walk and leash crowd act as walls.

Do it out in the country and either the monied set gets bent out of shape or some ahole with a new sports car flies around a corner and takes you out.

Gee is it any wonder the same guy has won the TdF 7 times in a row... there's no place for anyone to practice hammering.

Now as a side note, obviously this is recreation... yet apparently others can do their recreation and any hardships they cause are just SOL...

:cry:

Most MUPs have posted speed limits, if you want to hammer you should go where the posted speed will be at or over your expected speed. If you want to go fast, then YOU should be the one to take the risks, Not forcin it on grandma out walking the dog.
The people walking, jogging or cycling on mups are usually there to get away from speeding traffic.

People who speed along on a crowded mup are exactly the same as drivers speeding on the roadway.

I have sped along on MUPs, but only on empty sections, and as soon as I reach more travelled areas I slow down to a reasonable speed.

Ken.

The obvious answer was to put down the right foot, raise the left, and stomp the front wheel as he skidded into you -- down he goes, and he can't hammer at excessive speed anymore because you just bent his precious wheel. And hey, you were defending yourself....

OK so where do you hammer?

Selected city and suburban streets, country roads with good sight lines, and a low-traffic MUP with good sight lines and few intersections. I found some great country roads by talking with local racers.

We have many miles of paths for riding, skating, walking, etc in the Twin Cities.

On some of the stretches the paths are like divided highways with grass medians and signs pointing out which side is for cyclists, and which sides are for pedestrians.

And often there is only a single path with a sign indicating that it is combined, and that an audible warning should be given when passing.

It sounds perfect doesn't it?

Well, it's not.

Anytime you combine walkers, runners, people walking their dogs on those 15 foot long leashes, cross country skaters, and cyclists......

AND....anytime that includes power walkers, serious runners, fast skaters, and fast cyclists mixing with folks out taking their dog for a walk so it can pee somewhere besides their own yard, folks ambling along 4 wide while they visit, folks riding RIDING BIKES slowly 3 and 4 wide while they visit....

Well, if they are tax payers then they have just as much right to be there as I do. And I have no right complain about their behaviour, since there aren't any laws specific to those paths.

So, you can use those paths but you have to realize that you can't just run full speed all the time, and if you're good rider you probably won't even get a decent work out. There are just too many sections that have a lot of slow traffic on them and you're going to have to slow down often.

So, a lot of the cyclists ride on the streets to avoid that mess, and the folks driving cars don't understand why these cyclists are riding in the street when WE PAID ALL THOSE TAX DOLLARS FOR THOSE PATHS. :D

Conflicts on the designated bike paths where I live happen very frequently....

The obvious answer was to put down the right foot, raise the left, and stomp the front wheel as he skidded into you -- down he goes, and he can't hammer at excessive speed anymore because you just bent his precious wheel. And hey, you were defending yourself....

Ouch. Carbon splinters.

-Kurt

We have many miles of paths for riding, skating, walking, etc in the Twin Cities.

On some of the stretches the paths are like divided highways with grass medians and signs pointing out which side is for cyclists, and which sides are for pedestrians.

And often there is only a single path with a sign indicating that it is combined, and that an audible warning should be given when passing.

It sounds perfect doesn't it?

Well, it's not.

Anytime you combine walkers, runners, people walking their dogs on those 15 foot long leashes, cross country skaters, and cyclists......

Here in St. Pete on the Pinellas Trail besides all the signs indicating that peds should be on the right/bikes on the left (depending on direction of travel) there are also signs telling dog walkers that their leashes can't be longer then 6'. Even at that I'm betting that there is the real potential for dogs to cause problems for skaters/cyclists/and other users.


AND....anytime that includes power walkers, serious runners, fast skaters, and fast cyclists mixing with folks out taking their dog for a walk so it can pee somewhere besides their own yard, folks ambling along 4 wide while they visit, folks riding RIDING BIKES slowly 3 and 4 wide while they visit....

Well, if they are tax payers then they have just as much right to be there as I do. And I have no right complain about their behaviour, since there aren't any laws specific to those paths.

So, you can use those paths but you have to realize that you can't just run full speed all the time, and if you're good rider you probably won't even get a decent work out. There are just too many sections that have a lot of slow traffic on them and you're going to have to slow down often.

So, a lot of the cyclists ride on the streets to avoid that mess, and the folks driving cars don't understand why these cyclists are riding in the street when WE PAID ALL THOSE TAX DOLLARS FOR THOSE PATHS. :D

Conflicts on the designated bike paths where I live happen very frequently....

Selected city and suburban streets, country roads with good sight lines, and a low-traffic MUP with good sight lines and few intersections. I found some great country roads by talking with local racers.

Actually same here. I know where to GO. (it was really a rhetorical question) :D

this goes down to the basic human ego

"I'm right and everyone else is stupid"

20+MPH isn't very fast.

As some have commented, MUPs are frustrating little death traps, which I've been avoiding for a while now. People who have been driving on the right since they were teenagers suddenly behave like drunken 2-year-olds, lining themselves across the entire path, stumbling all over the place, completely oblivious to everyone around them.

If it wasn't you and him, it would have been someone else, because there are no rules, no common-sense, and no courtesy on MUPs.

So if I come upon a lycra clad moron like that, I would stop, turn my bike to block most of the trail and pull out my water bottle and camera.

So, when the moron approaches he either has to stop or ride off the path. So, either way I take his picture. Like.

20+MPH isn't very fast.

actually.. it is... the "+" means "faster than"

he could have been doing 70mph, you never know, its an open ended statement.

20+MPH isn't very fast.

:rolleyes: boy, did you miss the point of the original post or what?
20mp/h = 32 km/h. Not blazingly fast but fast enough.

Sandon the curves fixed the speeding roady problems here