Fifty Plus (50+) - Purpose of cadence?

I started riding in earnest 6 months ago to lose weight, improve my fitness, and get away from the stress of the office. In that time I've logged 3400+ miles, lost 23 pounds and feel incredibly better than I have for many years. I've upgraded some of my equipment too and this weekend installed a Cateye Strada DW cyclocomputer on my road bike. It displays cadence which the previous computer didn't do. How can I use this information to help me continue with my goal of better fitness?

A smooth, spinning cadence, 80-100 rpm is more efficient than slogging at the typical lower rates. I am assuming that your knees are as old as you, :p, so a quicker cadence is also better for the knees, especially when climbing.

IMO, these are the two important reasons for us "non-racer types" to pay attention to cadence.
Also see: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=572819

YRPMMV,
Cheers,
Geary

You will get advise to study much information available in books and online.
If you are like me, I rather just bike. I have done that for over 15 years and learned a few things. Higher cadence is better then low cadence. I go 80 to 100 RPM and can go 100 miles without harm. I use a Heart Rate Monitor to good effect. A good one is Polar with a chest strap rather then the wrist watch type. That way you can monitor HR, Cadence, Speed and Fatigue.
An important component is nutrition. The experts suggest 200 or more calories per hour of hard biking. That is in addition to regular meals. Water and Electrolytes are also a necessity.
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Interval biking is a good thing. Biking steady will not make you much faster. Interval biking will do that. I often stand up and power above 20 MPH on the flats and try for 18 to 19 MPH average on a wind neutral ride (Round trip).

Yes Gaylons....my knees are the oldest part of my body. I appreciate your response and the link:)

Yes Gaylons....my knees are the oldest part of my body.
Decades ago I started bunging up my knees through swimming (hyperextension), a soccer injury, pushing large gears while cycle touring, and ski injuries. Cycling at reasonable cadences (90-120 rpm most of the time) has helped me recover from injuries and maintain joint health and strength in supporting muscles and ligaments.

Decades ago I started bunging up my knees through swimming (hyperextension), a soccer injury, pushing large gears while cycle touring, and ski injuries. Cycling at reasonable cadences (90-120 rpm most of the time) has helped me recover from injuries and maintain joint health and strength in supporting muscles and ligaments.

I did not know that.

Oldbobcat I hyperextended one of my knees wet exiting a kayak at an inopportune time. On top of a lot of abuse from Texas HS football (glad my son chose baseball & golf for his activities) and years of running 10K's, bicycling seems to be the only strenuous activity they will tolerate.

I started riding in earnest 6 months ago to lose weight, improve my fitness, and get away from the stress of the office. In that time I've logged 3400+ miles, lost 23 pounds and feel incredibly better than I have for many years.

Congratulations, by the way!

BTW, I became a fan of faster cadences in my 20's. I'm convinced that's why I have my knees today.

Sorry I don't have any specific tips on how to get a smoother / faster cadence, other than thinking about it. I'm never too embarrassed to grab a lower gear if I need a lower gear to avoid "mashing."

There are all kinds of drills one can do but I've never done them.

I do have one tip which has helped me a lot: Use a trainer. There are no distractions and all you have to worry about is Cadence, HR and Speed.
Everybody says it is hard and boring but do it standing up for 3 minutes, sitting down for 6 minutes and it is no longer boring. You will learn the importance of cadence fast.

I do have one tip which has helped me a lot: Use a trainer. There are no distractions and all you have to worry about is Cadence, HR and Speed.
Everybody says it is hard and boring but do it standing up for 3 minutes, sitting down for 6 minutes and it is no longer boring. You will learn the importance of cadence fast.

The use of a trainer is excellent for tying out small differences in your "stroke". I can concentrate on improving just one part of the pedal stroke at a time. If you ride clipless, this is where you can practice the "circle" in the pedaling stroke and where you can observe the difference in performance you get from it.

A side benefit is that while using the trainer, you can make very small adjustments to your bike to see how they work out.

cycling on pavement should be a smooth experience. working with the wind, your heart, the bike and the road the goal should be to make it all come together smoothly and with the least amount of effort for the distance and speed you wish to attain. cadence is one of those parts.

I have always preferred to monitor my cadence and heart rate naturally (without devices). On the few occasions I have used devices, it just confirms that I am accurate enough on my own. I have nothing against those gadgets (I love all gadgets) its just that they get in the way of the overall experience I'm looking for.

Trainers and long flat roads or long quiet bike paths are useful to get it to all come together. even though I ride mostly out on hilly roads I still like to get onto a trainer or (even better) ride the Cape Cod canal trail to brush up on my technique.

Well I did buy a trainer on the same trip to the bike shop to get my cadence computer so will try the ideas for their combined use. I ride alone a lot, but have a couple of friends along on occasion and can see them spinning in a lower gear while I mash along on the big ring. I should add that I have a triple and live on a very flat coastal plain. I think as I refine my techniques further I'll be looking at a heart rate monitor, or like Gear, learn to do it naturally.

I rode for years with no attention to my cadence. Consequentially, it was difficult for me to spin at a higher cadence after deciding it would improve my riding. After about 6 months of conscious effort, my cadence usually runs in the 85-90 range. The interesting thing to me is that I have difficulty spinning at a lower rpm now. In other words, I haven't been successful in maintaining a lower rate, say 80 rpm, when even making a effort to do so without changing the gear.
On Saturday I had a guy pass me, who must have had a cadence of 140. It was almost comical to watch. Even though successful with a higher cadence, his body was bouncing all over the place. He had no solidity in his core. Really bad form, which I think must have caused a bit of a** discomfort in the "end."

Rollers. No choice but to be smooth and maintain a brisk cadence.

cycling on pavement should be a smooth experience. working with the wind, your heart, the bike and the road the goal should be to make it all come together smoothly and with the least amount of effort for the distance and speed you wish to attain. cadence is one of those parts.

I have always preferred to monitor my cadence and heart rate naturally (without devices). On the few occasions I have used devices, it just confirms that I am accurate enough on my own. I have nothing against those gadgets (I love all gadgets) its just that they get in the way of the overall experience I'm looking for.

Trainers and long flat roads or long quiet bike paths are useful to get it to all come together. even though I ride mostly out on hilly roads I still like to get onto a trainer or (even better) ride the Cape Cod canal trail to brush up on my technique.

That will certainly take care of the wind part.....:D

There is a basic underlying assumption when speaking of cadence. First is the pedal stroke. Then the cadence. That smooth pedal stroke is the first thing a rider wants to achieve. Sometimes it takes a lower cadence to get that part right. Then you move to a higher cadence. Cycling is basically repetitive motion. That means we have some kind of "muscle memory", so the quicker you learn that smooth pedal stroke, the easier it is to transition to a higher cadence.

Did you see yesterday's Vuelta a Espana on cable TV? Towards the end of the race, there were two riders up front and the commentator was saying that the second guy had a pedal stroke that was no longer smooth. He compared the two riders. He said that second guy is no longer pedaling is circles but in squares. His whole body started to move in a jerky motion. The first rider had the smooth pedal stroke and his upper body stayed still. Now, this could very well be because they were riding over 5 hours and after multiple climbs, so he was tired.

Garfield started hitting on it-I assume you have clipless pedals. Learn to use all of the pedal stroke first. An easy way is unclipping one foot and use the other foot to pedal all the way around on some flat lightly traveled roads (trainer works best). Feel your foot pulling the pedal backwards at the bottom of the stroke and them up at the back of the stroke. Do this for several mins until it becomes more natural. Then switch legs-repeat.

Then ride with both feet clipped in and concentrate on keeping your new pedal stroke while keeping your cadence in the 90's on flats and above 80 on climbs. When perfected, you's always have both legs contributing to the pedal stroke making it a much stronger action.

You will improve your Cardio conditioning and also pick up speed with the same effort by using more of the pedal stroke.

I never watch speed while riding-I ride by my HR first and then watching my cadence. After a while you'll be able to guess your cadence by feel.

Hope this helps!

I have not bothered to have cadence on my computer in ages. But if I even a hint from my knees, I generally drop down a gear and spin faster.

Spinning takes a little getting used to. It will cause a burn in the quads initially. But the mucles repair themselves quickly. Knees are made up largely of cartilege which really never ever repairs itself. So I plan to keep what I got as long as possible.

One personal observation on the spinning in cirlces thing. I focused on doing that quite a bit and ended up with a very sore knee. The part of the stroke that got me was pushing my foot forward across the top of the circle, just before the downstroke. I probably replaced bad technique with a different bad technique!

Now I focus on keeping my stroke smooth and not necessarily "circular". Net result is that I'm using my quads more, but saving my knees.

As far as cadence goes, I like to stay in the 90 - 100 range. Surprising how your body dials in on a specific rate and just wants to settle in on it.

Oh oh! I'm going to get flamed again. My personal experience doesn't match the consensus.

First of all, forget about the bike for a minute. If you were going on a journey by foot you could choose to walk, to jog, or to run. Running will get you there faster but you'll have to breath harder. I'm thinking that most people, if they don't care how long it tqkes to get there, will prefer to walk.

Why should riding a bike be different? Years ago I heard a lady bike shop owner say: "If your legs are tired, shift to an easier gear. If you're breathing too hard, shift to a harder gear." I think that's good advice. That's pretty much the way that I ride my bike.

Through spinning classes in the gum I have learned that high cadence, low resistance "sprints" kick my butt. I start panting and my heartrate redlines in no time. On the other hand, I thrive on high resistance, low cadence "hill climb simulations".

Now lets put these three data points together. If I choose to simulate a walk on my bike, I generally hold my cadence in the 70's. I do a lot of that and, honestly, many other experienced riders do too. If I choose to maintain a little "sportier" tempo, I'll generally keep my cadence in the 80's. I can hold that pace for a pretty long time. To me, any cadence above 90 is running. I have to consciously think about holding it there and I'm not able to keep that pace for any extended period.

A lot of the experimental data regarding bicycling is based on Olympic caliber riders. That's fine if you want to race, but it's not the majority of riders. Not even close. I think that most non-racers would be better advised: "If you're breathing too hard, shift to a harder gear and slow down your cadence."

^^^

I don't think the walk/run comparison on the bike holds up very well because of the ability to change gear ratios. However, I am a firm believer in "if it works for you then do it!" There are a lot of ways to get from point A to point B on a bike and they all work.

I have problems with foot comfort. High resistance at low cadence causes a lot of pressure on my feet leading to pain. For me, light resistance at a higher spin rate does the trick. I can't really comment on what is "most efficient" - that stuff is out of my league. I'm just looking for ways to spend time on the bike and this works for me.

^^^

I don't think the walk/run comparison on the bike holds up very well because of the ability to change gear ratios. However, I am a firm believer in "if it works for you then do it!" There are a lot of ways to get from point A to point B on a bike and they all work.


I agree with the disagreement. One does not exert more "pressure" walking versus running. There is an incrementally increased resistive load riding in progressively higher ratios. (higher gear inches, low pedaling rate) Dropping a few gear inches lowers the resistive load, pace is maintained by increasing the spin rate.

There is no machine involved in the walk versus run scenario. The resistive load is your weight, which does not change with pace. What does change is the impact on the body as there is more ground contact impact, (literally pound/feet), due to the relationship of weight+speed at impact.

Perhaps the more critical factor is how far from Point A to Point B one wants to travel on a long term, consistent basis. Spin smoothly, ride longer, reduce wear on ones knees!

Cheers,

Geary

rollers. No choice but to be smooth and maintain a brisk cadence.

+1

Why should riding a bike be different? Years ago I heard a lady bike shop owner say: "If your legs are tired, shift to an easier gear. If you're breathing too hard, shift to a harder gear." I think that's good advice. That's pretty much the way that I ride my bike.

"

This is how I ride and is the advice I offer to others. Only thing I have found is that my "Normal" Cadence at the start of a season is around 85. Within a few weeks of Training- I will be up to 90 and later may rise to 95.

Then I get to a hilly ride. Depends on the gearing and the bike but one of our hilly rides will involve 3,000 ft of climbing on 4 hills and a few little rises in between. By the 3rd steep hill- I find that my cadence could drop to around 70 and "IF" the last hill is the .7 mile 16%er- then I will be a lot lower. Legs may burn a bit but I do make the hills and I do not walk them.

We all seem to be saying a cadence of 90 plus but everyone is different. If yours is below 80- then it may be worth a bit of training to get the cadence up. But there is no magic number that works for everyone.

As part of the training for CC touring I had to do 16.5 MPH on a Trainer for 6 riding hours.
I have tried and could not do it at lower cadence. It got harder and harder as time went by.
Somewhere around 90 RPM is my comfort range for such an murderous undertaking.
I now apply this experience for long distance fast touring. Low cadence feels better for a while but not for 150 miles/day.

I did not know that.

The whipping action of kicking in competitive swimming, when practiced over years, can lead to loosening of the joint and hyperextension. I believe this can be more damaging for long-legged individuals because of the leverage involved (ratio of length of force arm to length of resistance arm). Long-legged athletes are better suited for cycling anyway. They have to work too hard just to maintain horizontal body position in the water.

I don't think recreational swimmers need to worry, though.

Oh oh! I'm going to get flamed again. My personal experience doesn't match the consensus.

A cruising cadence of 80-90 rpm is a fine target for recreational riders. Riders wanting to push their limits should work on cadence, though, before raising their gear ratios. When I messed up my knees I was riding more in the 55-70 rpm range. Not smart, but we were just undergraduates with just a Whole Earth Catalog Eugene Sloan for guidance back then.

There's a guy who goes on our group rides, who paid good money to a trainer who has him on a regimen of big gears, low cadence, and a peculiarly high and forward saddle position. Her (the trainer's) assertion is that the power numbers favor this kind of setup, and from what I've read I believe she's right. But whenever the road goes uphill or a gust of wind hits us in the face, her client can't produce the torque to power through, so he downshifts and falls behind.

There are some anti-cycling government types here. They had decided to ban CADENCE on some of the roads I ride. I just ignore the following road signs, as it seems impossible to cycle with "NO CADENCE"

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4061/img2951v.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/img2951v.jpg/)

There's a guy who goes on our group rides, who paid good money to a trainer who has him on a regimen of big gears, low cadence, and a peculiarly high and forward saddle position. Her (the trainer's) assertion is that the power numbers favor this kind of setup, and from what I've read I believe she's right. But whenever the road goes uphill or a gust of wind hits us in the face, her client can't produce the torque to power through, so he downshifts and falls behind.

From my 30+ years of racing experience, I would have to add that one of the major reasons coaches start off by getting aspiring young riders to spin is to develop their nervous system. An untrained rider will amble along at about 60 rpm's in too big a gear. If he needs to go fast, he can't, because he's used to cranking at 60 rpm's. If you train your nervous system to spin a small gear (42x16) at 90-100 rpm's, then when you put on the race gear (53x16), you unconsciously gravitate to spinning it as well at 90-100 rpm's in the pack, and it's dead easy.

I've been riding fixed gears during the winter while I was racing, and now I ride the fixed gear all the time. Most guys can't drop me. They can be cranking along in a big gear at over 40 kmh, and I'm spinning the 42x16 at about 110 rpm's and it's easy. The flexibility of using the smaller gear gives you better "snap," so if a gap opens up, it's no big effort to shut it down. On the descents, I get totally "spun out" at about 59 kmh on the fixie, when I can't "float" the pedals anymore.

I think that the spin should come first, not the technique. The technique will come because you are spinning. My first track coach always advised "churning" the pedals. The most beautiful cyclists to watch are the trackies, whose solid position comes from having to spin a 90" gear at race speeds. The ugliest riders are mountain bikers, with bobbing upper bodies, even where the road is perfectly smooth. A good spin takes care of that ugly bobbing.

L.

Then I get to a hilly ride. Depends on the gearing and the bike but one of our hilly rides will involve 3,000 ft of climbing on 4 hills and a few little rises in between. By the 3rd steep hill- I find that my cadence could drop to around 70 and "IF" the last hill is the .7 mile 16%er- then I will be a lot lower. Legs may burn a bit but I do make the hills and I do not walk them.


Have to agree with Stapfam. On short hills I can blast up and over with a high cadence, some times as high as 110 but that is not sustainable, on the long steep hills my best speed is hit at a cadence of 70, any more and I'll get too winded, any less and I am lugging. On VERY steep hong hills it is just pure survival. Here is where the cadence meter helps, if I get discouraged and let my cadence drop the meter tells me so and I try to pick up the pace, usually I am in my lowest gear so that means working harder if I can. If I can't get the cadence back to 70 then I just go back and low in the saddle and grind up the hill.

I have been riding for over 10 years now and am a 53 year old rider. I ride with much younger and more conditioned companions.

I am totally engrossed in the cadence argument. I have spent 3 years working on managing my cadence to average 90-95. I used a Virtual Reality trainer that tracks cadence, heart rate and wattage. I also ride rollers throughout the winter. I rode slower, had less power and started to not enjoy my riding. My riding companions probably got tired of waiting on me. I was allways totally blown out after 1.5-2 hours.

When I first started riding, my nickname was the "tractor'. If I got out in the wind pulling on the flats or rollers, I could bust it in the big gear and tear the legs off my friends. I went back to basics, and I ignore the numbers. Using my trainer, I started monitoring wattage vs. heart rate. My power wattage is between 80-85rpm and I do better shifting up at around 90. I may slip down to around 75 when climbing.

After 3-4 months at the lower cadences, my speed is increasing again and my climbing is improved 10-fold. I will continue to listen to my body and believe that as my fitness improves, I will continue to get faster.

I believe that we are all different. Remember that Jan Ullrich climbed at around 74 rpm and was criticized heavily for it, but was still one of the 2 best riders in the world. 110 works for Lance, not everyone else. I have large heavy legs, and it takes too much aerobic capacity to spin beyond my comfort zone and negatively affects my performance. I also have good leg strength and have no problem pushing big gears. I ride to my heart rate and cadence, speed is function of conditioning and terrain.

All said, cadence will be argued for the next 100 years. Find what works for you.

I have been riding for over 10 years now and am a 53 year old rider. I ride with much younger and more conditioned companions.

I am totally engrossed in the cadence argument. I have spent 3 years working on managing my cadence to average 90-95. I used a Virtual Reality trainer that tracks cadence, heart rate and wattage. I also ride rollers throughout the winter. I rode slower, had less power and started to not enjoy my riding. My riding companions probably got tired of waiting on me. I was allways totally blown out after 1.5-2 hours.

When I first started riding, my nickname was the "tractor'. If I got out in the wind pulling on the flats or rollers, I could bust it in the big gear and tear the legs off my friends. I went back to basics, and I ignore the numbers. Using my trainer, I started monitoring wattage vs. heart rate. My power wattage is between 80-85rpm and I do better shifting up at around 90. I may slip down to around 75 when climbing.

After 3-4 months at the lower cadences, my speed is increasing again and my climbing is improved 10-fold. I will continue to listen to my body and believe that as my fitness improves, I will continue to get faster.

I believe that we are all different. Remember that Jan Ullrich climbed at around 74 rpm and was criticized heavily for it, but was still one of the 2 best riders in the world. 110 works for Lance, not everyone else. I have large heavy legs, and it takes too much aerobic capacity to spin beyond my comfort zone and negatively affects my performance. I also have good leg strength and have no problem pushing big gears. I ride to my heart rate and cadence, speed is function of conditioning and terrain.

All said, cadence will be argued for the next 100 years. Find what works for you.

Allen and Coggan in Racing and Training with a power meter discuss cadence at length as well as quadrant analysis (circle of the pedal stroke). They discuss self directed cadence and training at cadence 10% above self directed cadence. It is impossible and probably not useful to try to discuss this level of detail in this medium. Needless to say, the power meter does not lie and reveals the truth.

I found that I can produce more power at lower cadence but MAY suffer later from fatigue. There is a balance between using force of muscular contraction and cardio.

I did an 18 mile time trial on Sunday. I targeted 85 to 90 cadence for the race biased toward 90. When the cadence would begin to drop due to whatever, I sucked it up and kept pushing mindful of smooth pedal stroke and no mashing and no shifting. The problem is if i would have shifted when the cadence dropped, I would momentarily lose power and mentally may not spin up enough to make up for the losses. With about 5 kilometers to go, I shifted into a bigger gear and pushed 80 rpm and used all my strength. The forces in my knees and legs were significant but I wanted max power. I beat my last year's time by ~4 minutes and came in 20th out of 30 in the M35+ 4/5 with several competitors finishing around my time. BTW, my knees and back were fine the next day. YMMV.

At the track, a wide range of cadence and neuromuscular capability is valued due to having a fixed gear bike. Training and racing at the track has helped my pedal stroke, power, neuromuscular capability and top end cadence.

I agree with the disagreement. One does not exert more "pressure" walking versus running. There is an incrementally increased resistive load riding in progressively higher ratios. (higher gear inches, low pedaling rate) Dropping a few gear inches lowers the resistive load, pace is maintained by increasing the spin rate.

There is no machine involved in the walk versus run scenario. The resistive load is your weight, which does not change with pace. What does change is the impact on the body as there is more ground contact impact, (literally pound/feet), due to the relationship of weight+speed at impact.

Perhaps the more critical factor is how far from Point A to Point B one wants to travel on a long term, consistent basis. Spin smoothly, ride longer, reduce wear on ones knees!
Cheers,

Geary

I agree with the agreement with the disagreement! :D