Professional Cycling For the Fans - Hinault Doubts Armstrong

Hinault Doubts Armstrong (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3870135.stm)


Can't they give him even a half a gram of credit for what he's accomplished???

He said: "For me, the three key men are Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton and Roberto Heras. And this year's course means they all have a strong chance."



DOH! I wonder what he thinks now?

He just seems bitter. Quite honestly, a lot of these former racer folks that step up to badmouth Lance are probably just annoyed at their glory being overshadowed by his.

What I hate is that they act all buddy buddy to his face and then talk crap about him to the newspapers.

There's no badmouthing here. It seems obvious that this interview was done before this year Tour started. Ulrich, Hamilton, and Heras were considered strong contenders at the time, nobody could have predicted the damage Lance and the Posties did in the last 2 days.

I agree with gpelpel. It's like predicting a horse racing, sometimes you are right on the money, othertimes you miss badly. Hinault is just telling his opinion. Honestly, I didn't think Lance would do this good from what I was hearing based on the results of previous races, before the tour started.

I agree with gpelpel. It's like predicting a horse racing, sometimes you are right on the money, othertimes you miss badly. Hinault is just telling his opinion. Honestly, I didn't think Lance would do this good from what I was hearing based on the results of previous races, before the tour started.

I thought Lance would probably ride well. What I (nor almost anyone) didn't think would happen is Ullrich, Hamilton, Mayo and Heras would ride so poorly.

the interview linked above was posted on the 8th of july 2004 right after the team time trial. i don't know how anyone could take this as anythign BUT a slap in the face. hinault is just showing his true colors like he did when he stabbed lemond in the back - he's giving the french cyclist a bad name.

Hinault doubts Armstrong
By Matt Majendie


Lance Armstrong's chances of winning a record sixth Tour de France are no more than 50-50, according to fellow five-time winner Bernard Hinault.

Armstrong moved into the yellow jersey on Wednesday after a blistering US Postal team time trial.

But Hinault, who dominated cycling for much of the eighties and is now one of the Tour organisers, is not convinced.

"He's not looked that good this year and everyone saw how he struggled in the mountains last year," said Hinault.

"So I'd say his chances of winning are only 50-50 at best."

Armstrong and Hinault are part of a select quintet to have won global cycling's biggest annual event five times. The others are Eddy Merckx, Jacques Anquetil and Miguel Indurain.

But even if Armstrong wins a sixth, Hinault says he has no right to call himself the best ever.

The Frenchman said: "It's wrong to compare eras. He is at the top of his and I was at the top of mine, as were all the other five-time Tour winners.

"Should Armstrong win six, he will be great. But greater than Merckx, Anquetil or Indurain - I'm not so sure."

Hinault believes the stage is set for a new face to wear the winner's yellow jersey in Paris at the end of July.

He said: "For me, the three key men are Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton and Roberto Heras. And this year's course means they all have a strong chance."

hinault was good. but merckx didn't doubt armstrong. i'd say merckx was a bit of a better rider and knows his cycling...

I thought Armstrong looked to be in superb physical condition at the first time trial - pure toned muscle in his legs and not an ounce of fat on the rest of his body. I also think the way the US Postal team have been riding has been quite an amazing sight - totally professional teamwork with one single intention for each stage. None of the other teams looks as strong or cohesive in my opinion.

Here's a thought... Hinault is a major player in the organization and marketing of the tour itself. As someone who has a keen interest in making sure that cycling fans remain intersted in watching this year's tour do you suspect that his assessment for this article was intentionally designed to create doubt to keep folks interested? After all, if Bernard Hinault says it's a slam dunk by Armstrong -- which is apparently what some of you thought he should have said -- why would anyone want to come out or tune-in to watch if the result is a foregone conclusion.

As for Lance's place in history, again, I think Hinault makes a correct characterization and I believe Lance himself has said the same.

Now, given that hindsight is 20/20, we can all sit in judgement of anyone's predictions for the major players in the tour and the outcome. But, flashback to July 2, who would have been able to predict Voeckler of the "Bakery Boys" being in Yellow for 9 stages or his phenominal efforts in the mountains to retain it. Who could have imagined the other big guns coming up as short as they seem to be thus far? How about that performance of Basso?

I'm sure glad I've stayed tuned-in with my eyes wide open. It's been a fascinating tour thus far... and it's on 2/3's complete. In fact, my biggest concern for Lance at the moment is some over zealous, moron fan causing Lance or riders next to him to crash or faulter or loose focus as a critical moment. Yesterday you had some idiot running along side who appeared to be slapping Lance on the back (although the camera angle could be deceiving), and then you have the wanna-be "cutters" who make a spectacle of themselves for the cameras -- like the longhorn helmet guy with the huge American Flag -- who fail to consider what happens if they get tripped and drop that flag & staff onto their idol. Enthusiasm is one thing, being stupid about it is another.

"He's not looked that good this year and everyone saw how he struggled in the mountains last year," said Hinault.

Last year - I'll give him that ,but "not looked that good this year"??? Huh? He was off the prologue by 2 seconds, and crushed all his primary opponents. Moreover, he, and his team won the TTT. I guess now Hinault will say, "Lance is not that good, did you see Basso plaster him?" :rolleyes:

I think he was talking about his performance in the Dauphine

You are all looking at this really biased, simply because of the title of the article being 'doubts Armstrong'. If you all actually thought about it for a second, you would realise that saying that a rider has a 50/50 chance of winning is quite high.

"He's not looked that good this year and everyone saw how he struggled in the mountains last year," said Hinault.

Last year - I'll give him that ,but "not looked that good this year"??? Huh? He was off the prologue by 2 seconds, and crushed all his primary opponents. Moreover, he, and his team won the TTT. I guess now Hinault will say, "Lance is not that good, did you see Basso plaster him?" :rolleyes:

If this article ran sometime just after the beginning of the Tour, the interview probably occured before it even started. And, let's be honest with ourselves, we all (even the most diehard fans) had to think that the field was really deep and Lance was going to have to ride the perfect Tour to win.

Perhaps last year was just a case of Lance riding really badly, maybe the contenders weren't as strong as they seemed. I tell you this much, people who are fans of the Tour and not just fans of Lance should have a lot to be excited about. There's been a lot of young talent doing some impressive things. The future of the sport is about to be upon us and there should be some good riders to pick up the torch when Armstrong, Ullrich and the likes have succombed to age. Basso is a real force, that guy Kloden on T-Mobile looks promising, Cancellara in his first tour looked good, if Cunego can transition to this Tour well he could bring some explosiveness and excitement. It all looks very good.

all greats have bravado and machismo. when you have won on a big stage there is always that big ego. people see how hollow their comments are. and you know how diminishing these french and europeans are when it comes to americans accomplishments, weather its bike racing or winning wars.

What I hate is that they act all buddy buddy to his face and then talk crap about him to the newspapers.


Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

Hinault defended Lance today from the media:

The last Frenchman to win five Tours de France, Bernard Hinault, is not impressed with Greg LeMond's insinuations that Lance Armstrong has achieved his five Tour victories with a little help. Speaking to Newsweek before the race hit the Pyrenees, Hinault said of LeMond's comments, "This is something that keeps coming back, and I think that some of it may be linked to LeMond's jealousy of Armstrong. The fact is that Armstrong has never tested positive. And as long as you don't have evidence I don't see how you can accuse him." - cyclingnews

So what was that you guys were saying?

So Hinault can backpeddle as well as he peddled forward.....

Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

You mean like when they fought with the colonies in the American Revolution? Or when they gave us one of our most treasured and most recognized American symbols, the Statue of Liberty?

How quickly some forget. :rolleyes:

You mean like when they fought with the colonies in the American Revolution? Or when they gave us one of our most treasured and most recognized American symbols, the Statue of Liberty?

How quickly some forget. :rolleyes:

:roflmao:

That statue does nothing to maintain our liberties and freedom. They supported us due to their rooted hatred of the British for hundreds of years.

How easily folks cannot see truth :rolleyes:

Now, back to the race.

Hinault has shown true French form by rolling himself to criticize LeMond. Probably due to some heat from his comments earlier. Now if folks start to praise LeMonds comments he will surely roll once more and support them. ;)

Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

Do you have any reasoning to support any of these comments, or any reasoning to support the idea that Hinault's comments were 'heated' towards Armstrong? Or are you just being racist and ignorant?

Again, I'm an Armstrong fan, and I thought his chance of winning is 50/50. Its like saying "there is a 50% chance that Armstrong will win, or a 15% chance that Ullrich will win, or a 10% chance that Mayo will win... (and so on)". Nowone has won six Tours before, and Hinault said that Armstrong is the odds on favorite to win (this was before the Tour started). Sounds more like praise than a dis, to be honest.

Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

Funny, this sounds like some of Americans I know in person. Does this mean I can say, "All Americans are the same, backstabbing, cheating......"?

There are certainly lots of new potential star riders in the Tour this year, but for anyone who is a fan of the Tour and not just a "Lanceaholic", this edition definitely has to be a disappointment.

The expectations were high and we've been only treated to, more or less, to the drama of the hyped 'contenders' blowing up. I would say last year's tour was waaay more exciting than this one has been.

Last year's Tour was exciting, but this Tour, in most ways, is even more exciting. It isn't the status quo anymore. The new generation of cycling has arrived and arrived in a big way.

Voeckler, Cancellara, Boonen, Hushovd, Pozzato, Kloeden, Mancebo, Basso, Totschnig.

These are the stars of the future, and I think it's very exciting to watch them test the waters in the Tour for the first time (be it their actual first Tour or their first time as a true contender). I like seeing Lance battle it out with the young guns. I like seeing the battle for the green jersey. I like seeing Voeckler's amazing courage as he gives it everything he has to keep the maillot jaune.

This has been a great Tour so far, and maybe it takes a fan of cycling (not a "Touraholic" or a "Lanceaholic") to see that.

Though it's nice to see a new generation of riders come to the front, I'm a bit dissapointed in this years tour.

I'd hoped for a pitched battle between the big 5, but barring accident the whole thing is pretty much wrapped up with a week still to go. It would have been cool if the historic sixth victory would have been his most difficult.

I still enjoy all aspects of the Tour and of cycling. I'll be here long after the TDF is finished - come October I'll be one of the three people interested in the Tour of Lombardy - and I'll be following all the grand tours long after Lance and Tyler have hung up their cleats.

This Tour though, even with it's historic implications, just seems kinda flat. The green jersey and Voeckler being the most exciting stories.

Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

Sam, have you spent time in France, or is this just what you've heard from the right, and are now paroting it about like a good lap dog should? I think I know the answer. Such an absurd statement can only be born of ignorance. :rolleyes:

Sam, have you spent time in France, or is this just what you've heard from the right, and are now paroting it about like a good lap dog should? I think I know the answer. Such an absurd statement can only be born of ignorance. :rolleyes:

Bow wow! ;)

Sorry, I should not have even mentioned anything of this type outside the politics forum. I was a bad little boy.

GO LANCE GO!

funny, this seems to be exactly the same statement that Lemond made about Armstrong......

and he's american too...

Sam, you forgot to mention the BO.:)

50 50 seems to be fantastic odds to win the tour, basically its like saying if LA has no accidents he will win. It also says the rest of the peloton gets to divide up that other 50% chance at winning between themselves. No dis here.

RE: Hinault's comments originally -- I have to agree, coming as they did right after the TTT win, that these were insulting, a personal jab motivated by a little jealousy.

RE: Hinault's defense of Lance against Lemond's idiotic accusations -- You've got to remember how much rage lance has...I'm positive he heard what Hinault said, and I can only imagine Lance's response to Hinault the next time they saw each other...Hinault had to backpedal, he was probably afraid lance was gonna tear him apart...or worse yet, not ride in his tour next year, and all the sudden all the american fans, OLN, everythings back to the pre-lance status quo.

Hinault is a Frenchman you know. This is normal behavior for them.

Backstabbing, treason, lying, cheating, swapping sides when the balance is tipped are all typical French behavioral patterns that we see not only in TDF but in every day dealings with them on almost any issues.

:roflmao:

Hinault doesn't predict Armstrong will win and suddenly it's backstabbing, trason, lying, cheating...

Too much.

Btw, what are you basing that articulate stereotype of the French on? Some guy named Pierre who lives in your appartment building? :D

Hinault doesn't predict Armstrong will win and suddenly it's backstabbing, trason, lying, cheating...


The thing is, he did predict him to win!
I guess Hinault would have to have said that Armstrong has a %99 chance of winning for him not to be an evil, lying, treasonous Frenchman ;)

...or worse yet, not ride in his tour next year, and all the sudden all the american fans, OLN, everythings back to the pre-lance status quo.

And this would hurt the Tour how? Do you realy think that the Tour de France is here because of OLN and it did not exist before Lance, all the American fans etc.? I appreciate the publicity for TdF in North America very much and it would be nice if it stayed longer, but get real. There are few sports (and other events too) out there that are well and healthy even without much interest shown by Americans.

And this would hurt the Tour how? Do you realy think that the Tour de France is here because of OLN and it did not exist before Lance, all the American fans etc.? I appreciate the publicity for TdF in North America very much and it would be nice if it stayed longer, but get real. There are few sports (and other events too) out there that are well and healthy even without much interest shown by Americans.

Financially, that's how. Sure the tour was there before lance, and it will be after, but don't you think they'd rather have him in the race (from a financial standpoint) next year than to have him retire and sit it out? "Get real" -- for all the tradition and history, the tour is a business, they want Lance to ride next year, and for purely selfish reasons. The organizers, Hinault especially, are arrogant enough to say the same thing you did, but when it comes down to it, they want the money, just like everyone else.

Patriotism aside, "his chances are 50-50". Yep, he will either win or he will lose.

"Get real" -- for all the tradition and history, the tour is a business, they want Lance to ride next year, and for purely selfish reasons. The organizers, Hinault especially, are arrogant enough to say the same thing you did, but when it comes down to it, they want the money, just like everyone else.

Well, that is exactelly what everyone is telling you! The Tour is a business that has existed for 101 years now and it will exist further, with or without American participation. Yes, the business will not be as good without USPS, but only for OLN, maybe Trek and others, but the "old country" bikes will still sell very well, the Europsport will have their viewers etc. What do you think, how many people are going to buy new bikes in France this year because Thomas did what he did and how many, in France again, are going to do the same because (and if) LA gets the sixth one? What do you think would happen if Jan won with the cycling business in Germany?

Well, that is exactelly what everyone is telling you! The Tour is a business that has existed for 101 years now and it will exist further, with or without American participation. Yes, the business will not be as good without USPS, but only for OLN, maybe Trek and others, but the "old country" bikes will still sell very well, the Europsport will have their viewers etc. What do you think, how many people are going to buy new bikes in France this year because Thomas did what he did and how many, in France again, are going to do the same because (and if) LA gets the sixth one? What do you think would happen if Jan won with the cycling business in Germany?

Canadians....

The TOUR IS A BUSINESS. "OLD COUNTRY" BIKES (whatever the **** those are) are a BUSINESS. There is a correlation, but the finances I was speaking of are those THE TOUR ITSELF MAKES. The money from advertisers, sponsors, media, etc. etc., the money the tour uses to pay Hinault to organize. Sure they could get along without LA, but they're greedy. The Tour de France is not a non-profit organization as far as i know, so I will explain my above point in poor grammar and broken english in hopes it will get through to you on the third try.

$$$ for Hinault (and Tour) with LA riding > $$$ for Hinault (and Tour) without LA riding.
Hinault (and Tour) want mo' money, so Hinault (and Tour) not try to anger LA anymore.

Canadians....

The TOUR IS A BUSINESS. "OLD COUNTRY" BIKES (whatever the **** those are) are a BUSINESS. There is a correlation, but the finances I was speaking of are those THE TOUR ITSELF MAKES. The money from advertisers, sponsors, media, etc. etc., the money the tour uses to pay Hinault to organize. Sure they could get along without LA, but they're greedy. The Tour de France is not a non-profit organization as far as i know, so I will explain my above point in poor grammar and broken english in hopes it will get through to you on the third try.

$$$ for Hinault (and Tour) with LA riding > $$$ for Hinault (and Tour) without LA riding.
Hinault (and Tour) want mo' money, so Hinault (and Tour) not try to anger LA anymore.

Thank you. No more comments.

Well, Lance would not sit out the Tour to get back at Hinault. It's his life. The thing that Lance brings to the Tour is a larger amount of US dollars coming into those cities included in the Tour. Their are a huge number of US citizens traveling to see the Tour. That number will drop when the brash Texan personality that they love no longer competes. Unless another American superstar comes along to take his place. However, the Tour will continue on long and strong without it. People in the US don't watch cricket and it's doing just fine over there.

It's interesting...in 99 and 00 this was a great story of a guy who survived 14 malignant tumors and had a 40% chance of living coming back to win the most difficult sporting event in the world.
People seem to have forgotten all of that.

Maybe some of the other record holders (and one other cyclist) along with the rest of the professionals in the race cannot believe that they are getting trounced by a guy who went through the brutality of chemotherapy.

Impossibility defeated.

Again.

Go Lance. No prisoners. Make them all suffer.

Then ride into the sunset.

Never bet against a Texan.

Hinault has proposed that Armstrong has a huge advantage over his rivals because he races so little.
I guess he thinks that if Ullrich, Mayo, Heras, Hamilton, Zubeldia, Basso all raced as little as Armstrong, then Armstrong wouldn't be able to win.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't all of his rivals done as much 'secretive' training as Armstrong has?
Sound like a dumb comment from Hinault, if you ask me.

all greats have bravado and machismo. when you have won on a big stage there is always that big ego. people see how hollow their comments are. and you know how diminishing these french and europeans are when it comes to americans accomplishments, weather its bike racing or winning wars.

Can't recall you lot winning in Korea, Vietnam or Somalia. The Iraq war has proven to be illegal and you only managed to beat us because you had the assistance of a huge FRENCH army !..oh how ironic !

he (Hinault), is just very selfish, why because he wants the 5 wins of the Tour to stand for ever....., and that is not the case...

Can't recall you lot winning in Korea, Vietnam or Somalia. The Iraq war has proven to be illegal and you only managed to beat us because you had the assistance of a huge FRENCH army !..oh how ironic !
yeah, but we pulled your fat out of the fire during WWII or did you forget about that one?

Marty

Guys, go bump your gums in the politics forums. Thanks! :D

know wnder american tourists are disliked wherever they go....

come back down to planet earth please.

The Iraq war has proven to be illegal

Don't want to hijack the thread....but please provide the proof of which you write. I'd like to see it.
Thanks.

BTW..proof would be hard facts. Not opinion. Not blathering. Hard facts.

yeah, but we pulled your fat out of the fire during WWII or did you forget about that one?

Marty

Good post.