Folding Bikes - advice: Dahon MU SL vs Tikit

hi, i'm new here and am looking for some advice. i'm a novice cyclist and am looking into getting a foldable bike for short commutes (2-5km) in the city (Toronto) and for the occasional longer leisurely ride as well. I'm looking for a balance of portability and performance/speed.

i'm looking at these 2 models and here are my pros and cons from what i have read on the interweb.

Tikit
pros: quick fold (5s). looks cool, more suited for urban use? can roll when folded. good support. can be customized for more money. good performance.
cons: more expensive (~1200US). smaller wheels (16in). bigger size when folded. heavier (26lbs)

MU SL
pros: cheaper (850US). looks cool too. lighter (18lbs). folds smaller. performs well too. larger wheels (20in).
cons: longer fold (30-40s).

any thoughts or experiences? lots of tikit reviews, but not many for MU SL. has anyone tried both?

thanks! :D

Try the Dahon forum for some Mu SL reports. See:
http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

I had 2 (2008) Dahon MU SL’s within the space of a year that both developed serious wear in the hinges. Both bikes where replaced under warrantee. Needless to say, I switched to Bromptons and Moultons (far better build quality) and would never buy a Dahon product ever again.

I would go with the Titit if the choice is between Dahon and Bike Friday.

thanks for the link. :)

i'm reading about some more quality issues with dahon as well. i guess now i'm leaning towards the tikit. i was hoping to get the dahon to save some cash, but i don't want to get something unreliable.

i'm reading about some more quality issues with dahon as well. i guess now i'm leaning towards the tikit. i was hoping to get the dahon to save some cash, but i don't want to get something unreliable.

only quality issue i know of is the handlepost which dahon has already adressed. there are quite a few dahon mu users here in the forum that are quite happy with their bike. don't let one negative feedback sway you away from buying a dahon. currently i have the dahon curve d3 and mu xl. if i was lucky enough i could have had 3 by now (missed a dahon helios sl). in shorter words - i like dahons and i like my mu xl.....do your own reseach and as what you have said cost is a big factor and saving 400+ is a lot. or better yet try searching CL. you might be able to get a used and cheaper bikes.

i'm reading about some more quality issues with dahon as well. i guess now i'm leaning towards the tikit. i was hoping to get the dahon to save some cash, but i don't want to get something unreliable.

Buy it from thorusa.com and you won't have to worry about it. No offense to PDR and I'm not sure if this is good or bad news for a US buyer, but the Dahon products and service seem to be much better in the US than the UK.

Given the facts I think it's fair to say that Dahons are less reliable (than BF), but for the amount of riding you plan on doing I don't think reliability will be an issue and unless you need the quick fold or just have to have a bike that mimics your favorite bike the Mu will be a much better bike for the money. If it were me I'd go with the Mu because Bike Friday charges a premium for a service I don't want or need, which is to imitate the exact dimensions of your favorite bike, and I'd need a lot more than that to convince me to pay $400 more for a bike that's 8 pounds heavier.

I read your first post and you mention portability and speed and both would be accomplished with the MuSl lighter to carry and quicker to ride.

Despite being a Tikit owner myself, I would agree with the Dahon recommendation. The type of riding you describe is not that intense. Don't need the expense of the Tikit, nor the necessity of the 5 second fold. The Mu SL is a very good bike under any circumstance, and certainly for your intended use.

Despite being a Tikit owner myself, I would agree with the Dahon recommendation. The type of riding you describe is not that intense. Don't need the expense of the Tikit, nor the necessity of the 5 second fold. The Mu SL is a very good bike under any circumstance, and certainly for your intended use.

yah, that sounds pretty reasonable. thanks for the advice everyone!

is there another model that someone can recommend besides the mu sl/tikit?

The Mu P8 http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/2009/mup8.htm

BF are nice bikes no doubt about it..... I dont want to chime in in anything which compare brands ...

let me just say that the complains you hear about Dahons are there .... no doubt .... those are challenges which need to be dealt with and usually they are ....

there is the seldom case that people dont want any help, or have other underlying issues why they think they should post negatively, nuff said ...

Dahon makes close to half a million bikes yearly and surely not everyone can be happy ... its much easier if you sell 1500 bikes a year and keep a low profile ....

Some brands are selling much more to the seasoned small wheel afficionado and Dahon sells bikes to absolute beginners as well as to enthusiasts....

again ist much easier to deal with folks who know what they have a problem with ,than somebody who doesnt know 16 inch versus 20 inch wheels and orderes a wrong fender ....

Maybe you should try to actually testride both bikes , take your time, fold them and carry them around
Its a lot of money no matter what brand

you should be happy with your decision
thor

is there another model that someone can recommend besides the mu sl/tikit?
Since I like IGHs, I suggest you consider the Mu XL Sport and Vitesse D7HG.

Ok, my final comment on Dahon MU SL’s
These are VERY nice bikes to ride, fast, lightweight and easy to carry. I gave a few Roadies a good run for their money on their full size race bikes.:thumb:

When I had problems with my first MU SL (first noticed after 5 months) the Dealer was very good in replacing the bike under the warrantee. Good, fair enough, I just must have had a bad frame....
I then keep a careful eye on the second bike knowing what to look for.... sure enough, after 3-4 months the hinge on the second bike was going the same way as the first bike. Could I really have been that unlucky that I managed to be sent two bikes with the same supposedly “rare” fault? My research showed that there had been other people with the same problem with 2008 bikes.

The 2009 bikes have a different designed frame clamp which looks to be an improvement over the 2008 bikes... is that coincidence or did Dahon already know about the problem? Either way, if my constant grumbling helped in some very small way to improve the hinge, then I have achieved something for new Dahon owners.

Any bike company can have design or quality issues and it is only fair than customers (like me) who have had problems are able to relate their experiences so prospective customers can get a fair assessment of any given bike. If you are buying anything new or s/h you want to know of any known problems so that you can check over the item before purchase. All I have done is highlight that there is a possible issue with hinges on 2008 MU SL’s

hi, i'm new here and am looking for some advice. i'm a novice cyclist and am looking into getting a foldable bike for short commutes (2-5km) in the city (Toronto) and for the occasional longer leisurely ride as well. I'm looking for a balance of portability and performance/speed.

The important words I gathered here were: novice and leisurely.

This means that you want neither of these bikes, particularly the SL. What you need is a less expensive bike. My suggestion: a Dahon Speed P8.

Why I think the SL is particularly bad choice for you: the SL is ultralight and speedy: but you're going to really pay for that in butt pain. Folding bikes in general are tougher on the derriere, and a stiff, aluminum performance folding bike is a worst case scenario in this respect. You say you'd like performance, but I'm guessing you don't need *that* kind of performance. Get a more comfy bike.

The tikit is a cool bike, and not terribly uncomfortable, and you will like it: but it starts at $1000 and that's a lot to pay for your first folding bike if you're a novice cyclist. I think a cheaper but still good quality bike is a much better pick for you.

Dahon Speed P8. Costs $500 or so, comfy (as far as folding bikes go), still fairly good performance. About 27 pounds (mostly because of its Big Apple tires). Folds to slightly smaller than the tikit.

You also didn't mention your height, reach etc. Both Dahons have only somewhat adjustable handlebars and limited sizing. You'll want to make sure the bike fits you.

I agree with the last post. I originally looked at the SL , but the ride was very harsh compaired to the shightly heavier P8. The P8 is a much more versitile Bike. Nicer ride than the Sl. I have used my P8 for extended Train /bike trips. Rode all over NYC and did the length of the Erie Canal. Very happy wirh the P8

The important words I gathered here were: novice and leisurely.

This means that you want neither of these bikes, particularly the SL. What you need is a less expensive bike. My suggestion: a Dahon Speed P8.

Why I think the SL is particularly bad choice for you: the SL is ultralight and speedy: but you're going to really pay for that in butt pain. Folding bikes in general are tougher on the derriere, and a stiff, aluminum performance folding bike is a worst case scenario in this respect. You say you'd like performance, but I'm guessing you don't need *that* kind of performance. Get a more comfy bike.

The tikit is a cool bike, and not terribly uncomfortable, and you will like it: but it starts at $1000 and that's a lot to pay for your first folding bike if you're a novice cyclist. I think a cheaper but still good quality bike is a much better pick for you.

Dahon Speed P8. Costs $500 or so, comfy (as far as folding bikes go), still fairly good performance. About 27 pounds (mostly because of its Big Apple tires). Folds to slightly smaller than the tikit.

You also didn't mention your height, reach etc. Both Dahons have only somewhat adjustable handlebars and limited sizing. You'll want to make sure the bike fits you.


i've thought about this as well, if i'm getting more bike than i can handle. at first i was gonna get a cheap model and then upgrade later on. but then i thought why not just get a nice bike now? and i want something light that i can carry around, but that costs a premium. i didn't think about ride quality as a factor, i thought i would replace the seat if it bothered me, but i guess more preformance = less comfort.

i'm average sized, 5 foot 9 and 170 lbs. i dont know my reach offhand, but i have very slightly shorter arms for my height.

i was planning on getting a 2008 dahon mu sl since it's on sale at $900, and the 2009 one is $1300. But if the 2008 has a frame folding problem, then this is less appealing.

also a quick question, how easy is it to roll the dahon around when folded? i've read the tikit is not ideal for this because the weight is not balanced on the wheel and requires constant force to correct.

i didn't think about ride quality as a factor, i thought i would replace the seat if it bothered me, but i guess more preformance = less comfort.


There's a correlation, but it's not as strong as you'd think. The SL's not just going to be hard on the butt but on the hands. And a suspension seat won't really fix that and also just adds weight. For the *kind* of riding you're apparently going to be doing, I don't see the SL as a good pick.


i'm average sized, 5 foot 9 and 170 lbs. i dont know my reach offhand, but i have very slightly shorter arms for my height.

Should be fine for the Dahons, and also either size-medium or size-small Tikit.


also a quick question, how easy is it to roll the dahon around when folded? i've read the tikit is not ideal for this because the weight is not balanced on the wheel and requires constant force to correct.

The tikit can be wheeled either by picking it up at about 45 degrees and rolling it like luggage (which requires some force, sure), or by balancing it nearly vertically, which requires little force but you have to balance it a bit.

That being said, Dahons in general aren't rollable: they're "rollable". I've yet to see a Dahon-rolling technique which is really usable in the real world. Certainly not on my two Dahons. The tikit is definitely much better at rolling realistically.

I'm on the fence between the Dahon MU P8 and the MU SL. I am limiting my search to Dahon mostly because it's the only folding brand sold locally. I own a few bikes and based on those decisions, agree and disagree with some advice you received so far:

First, don't let us talk you out of the model you really want. You will regret it later.

Second, I don't have sales statistics but suspect Dahon sells a lot of bikes, perhaps more than many of the boutique brands combined. Therefore, Dahon will have some bikes get into circulation that have some quality problems. For me, it's what the company and my LBS do at that point that matters most.

I don't know this first hand yet but think there is probably a better explanation why the Speed 8 weighs almost 30% more than the SL. Heavier tires contribute for sure but don't add up to 9 lbs. Components usually weigh in just as much. A lighter bike will make a big difference if you are lifting it and/or carrying it often. Mine will not be a commuter but will be lifted in and out of my car. That is why weight is important to me and one reason why I like the SL.

The best way to assure a comfortable ride has more to do with fit than anything else. It seldom has much to do with the bike weight. None of the bikes will be comfortable for long if it doesn't fit properly in the first place. High or low prices don't translate into comfort either. That is why I am buying local, to learn first hand which of the bikes fit and feel right.

If the SL fits right; promises good performance; weighs less than most folding offerings - you'll ride more often because you got what you wanted without much compromise.

I know I said that I would not make any further comments but...

The first Dahon I test road was a Dahon Jack and the Bike Shop guy warned me (as someone getting back into cycling) that the “I” beam seat would be uncomfortable but I actually found it to be Ok. I did 30 miles on one of the MU SL’s and the I-beam saddle was perfectly comfortable. It is possible to use an adapter which allows any standard saddle to be fitted (12th item down on this page) http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/accessories/seatpost.htm

Yes, you will probably think the ride is harsh when you first ride a MU SL but you will soon adjust and very likely prefer the fast ride and light weight over any comfort. You would have to ride a SL back to back with another Dahon model to see how the comfort levels compare and if the difference is worth sacrificing for the lighter weight and speed of an SL.

I did not suffer any problem with numbness of the hands and I found the grips to be fine. I did notice that they have changed the grips on the SL to Ergon Leichtbau for 2009.

The Schwalbe Kojak tyres are fantastic, fast and I did not have a single puncture. I even rode on sheet ice during the winter without any problem. The wheels are a work of art.

What you could do is go for the cheaper 2008 bike and if you are unlucky and a problem develops after several months you can send the bike back under warrantee and the dealer will very likely have to replace it with a 2009 spec bike (better hinge clamp and new grips etc.). Minimal risk and you would be saving $400

My 2nd MU SL was replaced with a 2009 bike so that is how I know about the changes. By the time the 2009 bike arrived (long wait) I’d already bought my Brompton. I could have kept the 2009 bike as a spare (which was my plan) but when I unpacked the bike I found it had a nasty chip on the frame (really disappointing) so that bike was sent back and I finally was given a cash refund.

So all in all, great service from Dahon even if the dealer / importer was a bit slow at times.

The important words I gathered here were: novice and leisurely.

This means that you want neither of these bikes, particularly the SL. What you need is a less expensive bike. My suggestion: a Dahon Speed P8.

Why I think the SL is particularly bad choice for you: the SL is ultralight and speedy: but you're going to really pay for that in butt pain. Folding bikes in general are tougher on the derriere, and a stiff, aluminum performance folding bike is a worst case scenario in this respect. You say you'd like performance, but I'm guessing you don't need *that* kind of performance. Get a more comfy bike.

The tikit is a cool bike, and not terribly uncomfortable, and you will like it: but it starts at $1000 and that's a lot to pay for your first folding bike if you're a novice cyclist. I think a cheaper but still good quality bike is a much better pick for you.

Dahon Speed P8. Costs $500 or so, comfy (as far as folding bikes go), still fairly good performance. About 27 pounds (mostly because of its Big Apple tires). Folds to slightly smaller than the tikit.

You also didn't mention your height, reach etc. Both Dahons have only somewhat adjustable handlebars and limited sizing. You'll want to make sure the bike fits you.

Not that I disagree with this completely, but I think it's a matter of preference and I wouldn't necessarily assume that all leisurely/novice riders would be happier with a heavy cushy bike. Personally I think riding a heavy slug is a much bigger turnoff for leisure than a little road buzz. Not my idea of enjoyable and I don't think it would be very enjoyable for a novice whose past experience says "bicycles=slow" either.

I do agree that fit is most important, but unless you already have a good fit on another bike I don't think even Bike Friday will be much help with that. IMO a good bike fit has to come from trial and error and the adjustability of many folders is great for that, which is all the more reason for a novice to buy one (think of it as a fitting machine).


What you could do is go for the cheaper 2008 bike and if you are unlucky and a problem develops after several months you can send the bike back under warrantee and the dealer will very likely have to replace it with a 2009 spec bike (better hinge clamp and new grips etc.). Minimal risk and you would be saving $400

+1 Although I'd spend the extra $100 and get it from thor just so you know for sure you'll be taken care of. I've never bought anything from that guy, but the way he seems to take care of Dahon owners (even ones that didn't buy their bikes from him) speaks volumes.

also a quick question, how easy is it to roll the dahon around when folded? i've read the tikit is not ideal for this because the weight is not balanced on the wheel and requires constant force to correct.

dahons can be rolled easily. just pull the seatpost and push it. check out this youtube demo of a dahon roos being rolled by the owner. it is basically the same for all dahons. i have dahon boardwalks, curve d3 and mu xl that i rolled the same way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ySyzcRMLhQ

and a youtube video of a dahon mu in it's rolling stage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AmXDfJa-Ak

another way to roll the dahon mu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aMzZf5wLM&NR=1

dahons can be rolled easily. just pull the seatpost and push it. check out this youtube demo of a dahon roos being rolled by the owner. it is basically the same for all dahons.

I roll my helii the same way in a pinch: but these videos are just dishonest.

Note that they're only being rolled in one direction: because you can't roll backwards much (if at all) as the pedals will rotate and then lock against the folding hinge. At least the D3 and P8 series. This is a big deal: it makes manipulating the bike in tight spots surprisingly tough.

Second, a bump or two and the magnetic hinge comes undone and then all hell breaks loose.

Third, to roll reasonably, you have to be able to put down the bike here and there. But in the "Mode 1" version of rolling (with the seat up) I can't really do that because it bangs the front crank against the ground. Unfortunately, the "Mode 2" version of rolling (with the seat down) is really a cramped position, quite hard on my arms, *much* more so than the tikit. And that's saying something!

In my opinion, my dahons cannot be rolled realistically. They can be "rolled" sort of. Which basically a hack, not a selling point.

I roll my helii the same way in a pinch: but these videos are just dishonest.

Note that they're only being rolled in one direction: because you can't roll backwards much (if at all) as the pedals will rotate and then lock against the folding hinge. At least the D3 and P8 series. This is a big deal: it makes manipulating the bike in tight spots surprisingly tough.

Second, a bump or two and the magnetic hinge comes undone and then all hell breaks loose.

In my opinion, my dahons cannot be rolled. They can be "rolled" sort of.

That is why you have to roll it with the front wheel. I have had the following Dahons: Jetstream P8, Speed D7, Curve D3, Curve SL, Vitesse D7; and I was able to roll all of them easily without the magnet coming lose (except for the Jetstream which did not have a magnet). The trickiest was the Curve SL since it had the ergon grips, which made contact with the wheels, but it was quickly solved by adjusting the stem riser correctly.

Maybe you should try to actually testride both bikes , take your time, fold them and carry them around
Its a lot of money no matter what brand

The best advice, IMO. :thumb:

Second, a bump or two and the magnetic hinge comes undone and then all hell breaks loose.



that's why inspite of the magnetix on my dahons, i still make it a point to tie it with a bungee cord or a velcro.

MU SL
cons: longer fold (30-40s).


Folding time is <10s (without pedals).



the SL is ultralight and speedy: but you're going to really pay for that in butt pain.


Mu Sl works fine as an all around bike.
To increase comfort just switch to wider tires

To increase comfort just switch to wider tires

Lowering the air pressure will work better than anything else to reduce road buzz. Simple and cheap.

...hi, i'm new here and am looking for some advice...

One important aspect of folders is rolability. That is, how easy it is to role the bike when folded. This famous Tikit video suggests that is is very roalble http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQscBxx7wLE but I don't know from personal experience.

If you have a chance, go and see your candidate bikes in person and give them a test ride ("A test ride is worth a thousand of pictures."). You will get a good feel of the quality, fit, foldability, etc.

As for service, Dahon's post sale service and spare parts availability is very poor (and I am in their home state) and long term customer satisfaction does not seem to be an important part of the corporate's DNA. Some good dealers will try to help but Dahon would not release even to them certain propriety spare parts. Bike Friday on the other hand has great service and it is one of their core values. You can call them any time and talk with an actual able and willing person that has access to spare parts.

BTW, have you seen a Brompton? We had here recently a case of a person with a "$500 budget" that ended up with a new Brompton after he saw one in the store ;-)

Kam

... Second, a bump or two and the magnetic hinge comes undone and then all hell breaks loose...

My son lost the magnet in the first ride of his new MuP24.

We recently found a spare part (it was not a trivial) and will install it soon. Should we use Loctite?

BTW, who is responsible for assembling these parts, Dahon or the LBS?

Kam

Hi
use a regular glue.. to glue the magnet into the holder not loctite as it is a threadlocker and there are no threads on the magnet ....

What certain propierty parts are not released from Dahon ?
( lets not start with the Sram gripshifters again, thats a sram problem that they do not have replacement parts for their OEM customers, Dahon in CA has ordered some from Sram and waiting on delivery , just in case somebody else needs one) In the meantime I have guided you to a integrated shiftlever which was on closeout for 15 bucks ...I ordered one and its here since a week)


not released by Dahon sounds like they have those parts and dont WANT hand them out....

if they do have something they usually are pretty quick sending to me ( a dealer )
Dahon is not set up to deal with Individuals, thats what the dealers are for ..same as Trek Specialized Cannondale .... if they all of the sudden do all kinds of sales behind my back I would be more than upset

thor

Hi
use a regular glue.. to glue the magnet into the holder not loctite as it is a threadlocker and there are no threads on the magnet ....

He lost the entire thing, with the bolt, not just the magnet. My thinking is that threadlocker will prevent the nuts from becoming loose again.


... lets not start with the Sram gripshifters again...

Good idea. ;-)



...not released by Dahon sounds like they have those parts and dont WANT hand them out....

Exactly. They have those parts (since they install them in new bikes), they know that customers cannot get spare parts (I told them) and they still don't want to hand them out.



Dahon is not set up to deal with Individuals, thats what the dealers are for

I first tried to get the part from a well intentioned dealer but Dahon would not release the parts even to their dealers.

Thor, blaming customers and OEM manufacturer for Dahon's shortcomings will not improve customer satisfaction. If I were you, I would engage Dahon in a serious discussion about better availability of propriety spare parts.

Thanks,

Kam

... We recently found a spare part ... and will install it soon. Should we use Loctite? ...
See http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7442

See http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7442

Good job HGR3inOK! We were not that resourceful but eventually were able to find a spare part. Will install it this weekend.

BTW, it is interesting that the Dahon store accepted an order from you. It is broken for me for at least a week. Try to click for example on the Buy button here http://www.dahon.com/us/accessories/performance/arx.htm all I get is an error message (same for all products).

Kam

I just picked up a 2007 MuSl and all I can say is wow. Lightweight easy to fold and quality parts.

I just picked up a 2007 MuSl and all I can say is wow. Lightweight easy to fold and quality parts.

no bragging without showing. you know the rules here - send pics ASAP......

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/hotzilla_2006/p1050307.jpg