Advocacy & Safety - I shouldn't let it get to me but it does....

I just went for a great ride to day through the forest- it was a beautiful day-sun shining the whole bit- I should have taken some pics it was really great- coming back I was cycling on a compulsory bike path on the pavement on the left side of the road (the dangerous type) and there was a car stopped at an intersection. I have had problems before at this intersection with drivers not seeing me and nearly hitting me so I rang my bell as I came up to the intersection and when I was crossing the intersection. Then the guy was on the horn and shouting abuse at me out of the car window as he drove past.

I mean why do car drivers have to be so f**** stupid. Do they not realise that if things go wrong their dent in the bodywork is equivalent to my broken leg or worse. It really makes me angry. The morons interpret a simple safety measure as an insult. I shouldn`t get so angry as it has ruined the ride for me now. How do you guys deal with this sort of reaction so as not to let it get to you?

One word: "arrogance". Simply put, I just treat incompetent or abusive drivers with complete contempt. I don't even give them the time of day. When they shout their daily abuse I offer no reaction whatsoever. If they try to take things further I still refuse to acknowledge them -- beyond writing down their details to take to the cops.

How do you guys deal with this sort of reaction so as not to let it get to you?

Depending on my mood, and who's watching, I may:
1. Ignore the ignorant fool
2. Smile & wave - this makes them go nuts
2A. Smile & wave a cell phone with 911 & audio recorder 'hot keyed'.
3. Give them same right back (rarely)
4. Stop in front of them & attempt to educate the ignorant fool - this works best when Joe Law is around.

Then ride on, knowing I am stronger, healthier, and happier the the poor, ignorant fool.

Ever hear of CS tear gas? It's light, small, and works VERY well if needed! But yes, in all honesty jerk drivers do get to me as well. But a couple months ago I started wearing a walkman CD player with very tiny speaker pods that go deep into the ear and I stopped hearing their remarks! Imagine that! Yeah yeah yeah I know your not suppose to ride with heavy metal, oh well! today it's me and Judas Priest; jammin! It really enhances the ride experience and I return from every ride happy! Just have to be more visual and scan more.

Today I had an experience with a real a**hole. I was pootling along,and a car honked at me so I got over to the side. I had been picking my way among some manhole covers. Often when people honk they're just warning you, not harassing you. But when they passed me,the guy on the passenger side yelled something at me. I should point out I was really in a horrible, foul depressed mood and everything sucks, etc, so I had little patience. I moved over, what more do you want? SO I said, oh, suck it raw. I didn't yell it, just sort of said it as if he were next to me. Then I saw them pull over at some spot and thought that was the end of it. Nope! A few yards ahead, I hear a man's voice, say, Hey sweet pea! I thought it was just some guy and sure enough- it was the guy from before. He said, "Did you tell me to *** off?" The way he said it was like in "Taxi driver," like "You talking to me?" As if he's going to teach me a lesson, like "I don't take this frumma broad!" I thought jeez, get over it and I said 'get lost!' and flipped him the bird. I was also worried that the driver would swerve over. I noticed also that the driver was a woman! So she obviously is an idiot as well who thinks harrasing and threatening another woman is acceptable. The guy was leaning out of the window and began going on "I used to be a biker and so I know about riding a bike.... " and just yammering on, and it was just ridiculous. SO I said, "Shut up already!Get over it!" He really just was an abusive jerk. THen they moved on ahead, but there was an intersection up ahead and the light was red, and I saw they were driving slowly, probably figuring they'd get me again at the red light. Instead, I turned right down the next street and waited for the red light to change, then I waited a bit longer to give them a healthy lead so I wouldn't run into them. NO way was I going to stop- who knows what a guy like that will do? Door me or maybe even get out of the car and push me off my bike- better not to take chances, especially when alone.

It's very rare that I get real psychos like that, but we all know they exist. Be careful!

How many times have you had things thrown at you? My husband seems to have everything from sport bottles to sandwiches thrown at him at least one a month. I have been very lucky, I have only had a sports bottle thrown at me once, luckily it didn't come anywhere near my bike. After the jerk threw it I thought "sure am glad he didn't hit my front wheel, otherwise I would have gone down". I didn't get a look at the person who threw it but my best bet is it was a young jerk kid. I have had people yell at me, but being deaf in one ear, I can never make out what they are saying anyway so it doesn't upset me.

Hi everyone thanks for the replies- I have never had anything thrown at me (that I saw at least) so I guess I am lucky- the drivers in Munich on the whole are not bad and they do try usually to respect the law. It just riles me that I have to worry about taking a simple safety measure as to whether it will send some unstable insecure jerk off the deep end. I just want to cycle and not get mixed up in stupid fights with morons.

It makes me feel unsafe though. I feel like maybe I should start carrying a chain and padlock to defend myself just in case. It is probably an overreaction but how many other cyclists carry something they can defend themselves with (sorry about ending with a preposition).

I normally avoid that particular bike path because of the safety issues and cycle a different route round the back on the road. I will not use it again at least in the dangerous direction.

Sometimes I carry pepper spray, it is NOT illegal here in San Diego. I carry it for the main purpose of defending myself against stray dogs but I'm sure it will work in the case of an irrate human too, at least it would give you enough time to get back on the bike and ride away.

Sometimes I carry pepper spray, it is NOT illegal here in San Diego. I carry it for the main purpose of defending myself against stray dogs but I'm sure it will work in the case of an irrate human too, at least it would give you enough time to get back on the bike and ride away.

I live in Houston, and always carry pepper spray. I have no idea whether it's legal or not. I just assumed it was legal since I bought it at the local Academy store.

Sverre

Texas law permits small cans of pepper spray to be carried. It may be possible for a city to pass an ordinance prohibiting them, but if they are being sold in a major sporting goods store, they are almost certainly legal.

I was out for a night ride with a friend last weekend in my very small hometown, and we stopped at the 7-11 for some drinks. We both purchased very large coke slurpees, and we decided to ride down to our favorite corner and people watch. Four teenagers were behind us in a jeep, started yelling at us to get over and let them by, being obnoxious. So we did what any good cyclist would do, we rode two abreast down the street as slow as we could, so they couldn't get around. This angered the miscreants even further, increasing the quantity, quality, and volume of their shouts. Finally they disobeyed all traffic laws to pass us in the opposite lane of a downtown street, and as they passed tried to spray us with silly string. Needless to say, drink in hand, i gave chase, shouting my own blend of intellectual profanity. We chased them for a few blocks, at which point they tossed the silly string can at my front wheel. Now i was having fun up until this point, but this was the straw. My friend and I ducked into an alley and up the block, knowing they would turn around and come back our way. Sure enough, they did, and we rolled out of that alley in perfect formation, caught them at a stop light, and tossed both of our lidless slurpees into the open backseat of their Wrangler, one from each side of the car. They didn't even hear us coming, and we were gone before the light changed, leaving them with what must have been a horribly sticky mess all over themselves and the car.

So that's my recommendation. Just "bombs away" with whatever beverage you have. If its a water bottle, just squirt them or their car. People hate that.

It's been several months since anyone's thrown anything at me. It was only soda, maybe a couple of ounces of Pepsi in a Big Gulp cup, tossed from the window of a primer-gray Mustang. Sounds like stereotype, but there it is....

"Only soda" between the spokes of one's front wheel can cause a fatal endo. Remember (and this goes for cyclists throwing things too), as soon as objects get thrown, it's no longer in the realm of traffic law. It's assault. Anyone who gets something thrown at her/him should report it as an assault. The cops might even try to refer you to the "traffic" division, or get you to report it as a "traffic incident" (Translation: they don't have to do anything about it). Don't. Insist on reporting it as anyone assaulted on the street would report it.

I was out for a night ride with a friend last weekend in my very small hometown, and we stopped at the 7-11 for some drinks. We both purchased very large coke slurpees, and we decided to ride down to our favorite corner and people watch. Four teenagers were behind us in a jeep, started yelling at us to get over and let them by, being obnoxious. So we did what any good cyclist would do, we rode two abreast down the street as slow as we could, so they couldn't get around. This angered the miscreants even further, increasing the quantity, quality, and volume of their shouts. Finally they disobeyed all traffic laws to pass us in the opposite lane of a downtown street, and as they passed tried to spray us with silly string. Needless to say, drink in hand, i gave chase, shouting my own blend of intellectual profanity. We chased them for a few blocks, at which point they tossed the silly string can at my front wheel. Now i was having fun up until this point, but this was the straw. My friend and I ducked into an alley and up the block, knowing they would turn around and come back our way. Sure enough, they did, and we rolled out of that alley in perfect formation, caught them at a stop light, and tossed both of our lidless slurpees into the open backseat of their Wrangler, one from each side of the car. They didn't even hear us coming, and we were gone before the light changed, leaving them with what must have been a horribly sticky mess all over themselves and the car.

So that's my recommendation. Just "bombs away" with whatever beverage you have. If its a water bottle, just squirt them or their car. People hate that.

Well, let's see. you and your bud probably violated the law by riding two abreast solely to impede the normal flow of traffic. Then, if that wasn't enough, you vandalized the jeep owner's property by tossing slurpees inside the vehicle. In the first case, you may be able to claim that the traffic represented a clear danger to you, though you could have avoided escalating the situation by turning off the road briefly to allow the drunks to pass. In the second case, you were no longer in any danger, yet chose to initiate a second confrontation to damage the jeep. Had you tossed the slurpees when the drunks were spraying you with silly string, you could make a self defense claim. But, by sneaking back, you became the agressor.

The drunks may have deserved punishment, but that was not the way to handle it.

The drunks may have deserved punishment, but that was not the way to handle it.

You're right. I would have dumped it in their laps.

It makes me feel unsafe though. I feel like maybe I should start carrying a chain and padlock to defend myself just in case. It is probably an overreaction but how many other cyclists carry something they can defend themselves with (sorry about ending with a preposition).

When I was attacked by a punch-throwing pedestrian at a red light earlier this year I thought long and hard about these issues, not to mention asking the question on these forums. However, if you're going to carry a weapon make sure you can access it easily and know how to use it. Also make sure you only use it if it's absolutely necessary. I used self-restraint in my incident, and it worked on that occasion, although I think my assailant was trying to bait me into a reaction as the punch he threw wasn't exactly one he would have been proud of. It also helped that I was aided by a couple of bystanders.

The other issue was what might happen had I retaliated? Even if I win the fight (unlikely when you're 62kg), there is always the possibility of assault charges. Whose side would the bystanders have taken then? And if I use a weapon (be it pepper spray, a bike lock, a gun), I'm going to be held responsible for the consequences of my actions. These are all things you need to think about.

Now let's put your incident into perspective. What really happened? Some jerk honked at you, then gave you the finger. I don't want to make light of it, but the fact is I can't ever recall a week going by here on the Gold Coast where I've not received that sort of treatment (I've been here almost a decade). At the end of the day, verbal abuse is just that. Contrary to what you might suspect, there is no correlation between verbal abuse and physical attack. I think the guy may have been frightened by your horn and responded the only way his tiny brain could figure out.

Either way, I don't think it's time yet to suddenly "change my ways" or anything else drastic, and I wouldn't start carrying weapons to use on people who honk or yell at me.

When I was attacked by a punch-throwing pedestrian at a red light earlier this year I thought long and hard about these issues, not to mention asking the question on these forums. However, if you're going to carry a weapon make sure you can access it easily and know how to use it. Also make sure you only use it if it's absolutely necessary. I used self-restraint in my incident, and it worked on that occasion, although I think my assailant was trying to bait me into a reaction as the punch he threw wasn't exactly one he would have been proud of. It also helped that I was aided by a couple of bystanders.

The other issue was what might happen had I retaliated? Even if I win the fight (unlikely when you're 62kg), there is always the possibility of assault charges. Whose side would the bystanders have taken then? And if I use a weapon (be it pepper spray, a bike lock, a gun), I'm going to be held responsible for the consequences of my actions. These are all things you need to think about.

Now let's put your incident into perspective. What really happened? Some jerk honked at you, then gave you the finger. I don't want to make light of it, but the fact is I can't ever recall a week going by here on the Gold Coast where I've not received that sort of treatment (I've been here almost a decade). At the end of the day, verbal abuse is just that. Contrary to what you might suspect, there is no correlation between verbal abuse and physical attack. I think the guy may have been frightened by your horn and responded the only way his tiny brain could figure out.

Either way, I don't think it's time yet to suddenly "change my ways" or anything else drastic, and I wouldn't start carrying weapons to use on people who honk or yell at me.

yes I think you are right -I was just upset and letting off some steam. I just feel a bit vulnerable alone on a bike sometimes

When I was attacked by a punch-throwing pedestrian at a red light earlier this year I thought long and hard about these issues, not to mention asking the question on these forums. However, if you're going to carry a weapon make sure you can access it easily and know how to use it. Also make sure you only use it if it's absolutely necessary. I used self-restraint in my incident, and it worked on that occasion, although I think my assailant was trying to bait me into a reaction as the punch he threw wasn't exactly one he would have been proud of. It also helped that I was aided by a couple of bystanders.

The other issue was what might happen had I retaliated? Even if I win the fight (unlikely when you're 62kg), there is always the possibility of assault charges. Whose side would the bystanders have taken then? And if I use a weapon (be it pepper spray, a bike lock, a gun), I'm going to be held responsible for the consequences of my actions. These are all things you need to think about.

Now let's put your incident into perspective. What really happened? Some jerk honked at you, then gave you the finger. I don't want to make light of it, but the fact is I can't ever recall a week going by here on the Gold Coast where I've not received that sort of treatment (I've been here almost a decade). At the end of the day, verbal abuse is just that. Contrary to what you might suspect, there is no correlation between verbal abuse and physical attack. I think the guy may have been frightened by your horn and responded the only way his tiny brain could figure out.

Either way, I don't think it's time yet to suddenly "change my ways" or anything else drastic, and I wouldn't start carrying weapons to use on people who honk or yell at me.


I often find myself in the same internal debate. I may start carrying pepper spray at some point, with the knowledge that it is a tool for escaping a worse situation. In other words, I will not be using it on someone who honks at me, yells at me, or otherwise uses non-physical agression. There's no point. While I live in California, there are no laws yet which allow me to escalate from words and "sign language" to assault and battery. More importantly, that goes against my code of ethics. Now, if someone were to attempt to harm me, I would be willing to use the pepper spray to escape the situation.

The best tool that any person posesses is their brain. If you can develop the paradigm that the people who honk, yell, and gesture at you are just unhappy people, you've taken the first step. Then, realize that the crap they pull on the road is a reflection of their own unhappy lives, and you begin to realize that the punishment for what they do is the fact that they live unhappily. Suddenly, I find myself more equipped to ignore them, as I don't care what they think of me.

Well, let's see. you and your bud probably violated the law by riding two abreast solely to impede the normal flow of traffic. Then, if that wasn't enough, you vandalized the jeep owner's property by tossing slurpees inside the vehicle. In the first case, you may be able to claim that the traffic represented a clear danger to you, though you could have avoided escalating the situation by turning off the road briefly to allow the drunks to pass. In the second case, you were no longer in any danger, yet chose to initiate a second confrontation to damage the jeep. Had you tossed the slurpees when the drunks were spraying you with silly string, you could make a self defense claim. But, by sneaking back, you became the agressor.

The drunks may have deserved punishment, but that was not the way to handle it.

Thanks dad, I needed the lecture. I'll go turn myself in now. Will you be my lawyer? I want some help with this "self defense claim" and you seem pretty knowlegeable about the law. I know when i learned self defense during criminal law class at law school, they never taught us that slurpees were the proper response to silly string. Hopefully you can help me out, if i can find someone to press charges against me

"impeded the normal flow of traffic" -- a law made up by suv drivers. Bikes are traffic, traitor...

Thanks dad, I needed the lecture. I'll go turn myself in now. Will you be my lawyer? I want some help with this "self defense claim" and you seem pretty knowlegeable about the law. I know when i learned self defense during criminal law class at law school, they never taught us that slurpees were the proper response to silly string. Hopefully you can help me out, if i can find someone to press charges against me.

You didn't cover People v. Nahasapeemapetilon (1990) 485 Xyz.3d 789 in Crim.Pro.? In that case, the weapon was a Squishy, not a Slurpee, but the reasoning is equally applicable.

I'm shocked. It's right up there with Coyote v. Acme, Inc. in the annals of fake law.

>> but the fact is I can't ever recall a week going by here on the Gold Coast where I've not received that sort of treatment

Sheesh. Our drivers here in Seattle are pretty courteous. I've been riding for over 2 yrs and count on one hand the number of harrassments. Each time, it was because I did something stupid, unexpected, or illegal. I didn't react at all, cuz each time I had it coming. I feel very fortunate.

I was out for a night ride with a friend last weekend in my very small hometown, and we stopped at the 7-11 for some drinks. We both purchased very large coke slurpees, and we decided to ride down to our favorite corner and people watch. Four teenagers were behind us in a jeep, started yelling at us to get over and let them by, being obnoxious. So we did what any good cyclist would do, we rode two abreast down the street as slow as we could, so they couldn't get around. This angered the miscreants even further, increasing the quantity, quality, and volume of their shouts. Finally they disobeyed all traffic laws to pass us in the opposite lane of a downtown street, and as they passed tried to spray us with silly string. Needless to say, drink in hand, i gave chase, shouting my own blend of intellectual profanity. We chased them for a few blocks, at which point they tossed the silly string can at my front wheel. Now i was having fun up until this point, but this was the straw. My friend and I ducked into an alley and up the block, knowing they would turn around and come back our way. Sure enough, they did, and we rolled out of that alley in perfect formation, caught them at a stop light, and tossed both of our lidless slurpees into the open backseat of their Wrangler, one from each side of the car. They didn't even hear us coming, and we were gone before the light changed, leaving them with what must have been a horribly sticky mess all over themselves and the car.

So that's my recommendation. Just "bombs away" with whatever beverage you have. If its a water bottle, just squirt them or their car. People hate that.


Right ON!

And you wern't even on Critical Mass. LOL.

Right ON!

And you wern't even on Critical Mass. LOL.

Pretty silly, if you ask me. And I know you didn't.... Teenagers around here can be evil, and I would not put it past them, especially in pack mode, to be carrying weapons. I would think Columbus would not be much different. I think he was lucky they only tried to spray him with silly string.

I carry pepper spray at all times. I make a distinction between defensive and offensive weapons, even if used for defense. Pepper spray will disable, but not permanently. A chain, a gun, whatever is a different story.

Pretty silly, if you ask me. And I know you didn't.... Teenagers around here can be evil, and I would not put it past them, especially in pack mode, to be carrying weapons. I would think Columbus would not be much different. I think he was lucky they only tried to spray him with silly string.

I carry pepper spray at all times. I make a distinction between defensive and offensive weapons, even if used for defense. Pepper spray will disable, but not permanently. A chain, a gun, whatever is a different story.

I said i was in my very small hometown, not in Columbus, but I understand the mistake. My hometown is barely 20K people, a tame little midwest town. Columbus is pretty safe too, i've never felt scared, you just have to stay in the right neighborhoods, like anywhere.

Thanks dad, I needed the lecture. I'll go turn myself in now. Will you be my lawyer? I want some help with this "self defense claim" and you seem pretty knowlegeable about the law. I know when i learned self defense during criminal law class at law school, they never taught us that slurpees were the proper response to silly string. Hopefully you can help me out, if i can find someone to press charges against me

"impeded the normal flow of traffic" -- a law made up by suv drivers. Bikes are traffic, traitor...

No, not a traitor. It's just hard enough dealing with bad motorists without bad cyclists making the problem worse.

Thanks dad, I needed the lecture. I'll go turn myself in now. Will you be my lawyer? I want some help with this "self defense claim" and you seem pretty knowlegeable about the law. I know when i learned self defense during criminal law class at law school, they never taught us that slurpees were the proper response to silly string. Hopefully you can help me out, if i can find someone to press charges against me

"impeded the normal flow of traffic" -- a law made up by suv drivers. Bikes are traffic, traitor...

Being a law student, could you please cite a reference where laws against impeding the normal flow of traffic were made up by SUV drivers?

I suspect those laws were on the books long before "SUV" was even a term. Not all problems on the road a the fault of SUV's and their drivers. Believe it or not, some problems are caused by bad cyclists... such as ones who intentionally ride two abreast in a lane to block a car.

For the record, I'm a cyclist AND I own an SUV... and I enjoy both. Hard to imagine, eh?

>For the record, I'm a cyclist AND I own an SUV... and I enjoy both. Hard to imagine, eh?

Naw! No problem!

In all seriousness, SUV/4wd drivers don't seem to be my biggest problem on the roads around here. About the only time I even notice them is the squeeze if two of them are side by side when I'm lane-splitting. I have the biggest problems with utes/pick up trucks, mainly due to the morons driving them.

I also find pick-ups to be a bigger menace, although I tend to disilke SUVs. Old pick-ups, or small ones driven by teenagers are usually the ones that cause problems.

Being a law student, could you please cite a reference where laws against impeding the normal flow of traffic were made up by SUV drivers?

I suspect those laws were on the books long before "SUV" was even a term. Not all problems on the road a the fault of SUV's and their drivers. Believe it or not, some problems are caused by bad cyclists... such as ones who intentionally ride two abreast in a lane to block a car.

For the record, I'm a cyclist AND I own an SUV... and I enjoy both. Hard to imagine, eh?

Well I couldn't find the city code for my hometown, but I'll give you the code for columbus.

http://ordlink.com/codes/columbus/

a) No person shall stop or operate a vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when stopping or reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or to comply with law.

No history as to how long its been on the books. I could go down and investigate the current parking lot at the mayor and city council office.... OR we could just assume i was making a JOKE about SUV drivers, and you could not take it so personally. Sounds like you're a little conflicted. Its ok, we all have a little secret self-loathing, some guilty pleasures, etc ;) .I certainly didn't mean to ruffle the feathers of every suv driver/cyclist out there. I'm sure you enjoy both, and i'm sure you're a great driver, always considerate of cyclists on the road. These kids weren't. My friend and I were riding reasonably and legally, single file on the right side of the road, when we were accosted. Yeah we broke the law, yeah I'm a "BAD CYCLIST" and now i'll have to be spanked or something (its like you're talking to a puppy... bad cyclist!! Bad!) Its not something i would do here in columbus, but in my one-horse hometown it was just a way of being entertained on fairly empty streets. And it made for a funny story, or so I thought. Perhaps "advocacy and safety" wasn't the best category. But, i think a slurpee in the backseat is a little less severe than pepper spray at anytime....But, you paranoid patriarchs (god i love alliteration) can keep preaching "turn the other cheek." I'll keep my bags packed for the guilt trips.

In all seriousness, SUV/4wd drivers don't seem to be my biggest problem on the roads around here. About the only time I even notice them is the squeeze if two of them are side by side when I'm lane-splitting. I have the biggest problems with utes/pick up trucks, mainly due to the morons driving them.

I saw some accident stats on another thread where pick up trucks were the most accident prone vehicle (more so than SUV`s)- so this could make sense

This is why I am getting my concealed carry permit and dockers clutch with a 9mm Beretta. If the dude would have gotten out of his car, ya just pull the 9, tell him to go jump a cliff, and that'll usually do it. Or, when Mr. Stick up tha butt is a real menace, and thinks he has something to prove by attempting to harm ya, you cap him one and call it self defense. Now, probably the majority of you think this is overkill. However, I live in Houston. :)

This is why I am getting my concealed carry permit and dockers clutch with a 9mm Beretta. If the dude would have gotten out of his car, ya just pull the 9, tell him to go jump a cliff, and that'll usually do it. Or, when Mr. Stick up tha butt is a real menace, and thinks he has something to prove by attempting to harm ya, you cap him one and call it self defense. Now, probably the majority of you think this is overkill. However, I live in Houston. :)

Well, I too live in Houston, and I still think it's overkill....

Sverre