Advocacy & Safety - Confession: Stupid manuever.

Well, I think I pulled a dumb one today.

I was heading to the video store and decided to take the highway instead of the adjacent bike trail. The highway is faster, a lot faster because you can get through the intersections so quickly.

So I turned right and headed down the shoulder. No problem. No traffic either. I approached the intersection where I needed to turn left. The intersection of one of those ones where the turn lanes are about 100 yards long to accommodate the crowded 45mph traffic including semi trucks. So I'm running out of shoulder (it turns into the right turn lane) and I check back and see traffic about 2 blocks back.

So I move out into the right lane thinking: "The right lane will slow, the left lane will wiz by, the right lane will pull around and wiz by, and I'll be able to move over into the left hand turn lane where I need to be to make my left hand turn."

WRONG.

I watch this all happening behind me with my head turned. The right lane slows, eventually. The left lane slows early. In fact, everyone slows down to my speed. Except the two guys that pulled into the right turn lane to pass.

I continue in the lane for probably 5 seconds (which felt like forever) before deciding that the left lane is slowed down and going to stay that way and the left turn lane is clear. So I dash across. Yes, across 2 lanes of traffic. I'm not happy about it, but I wasn't going to dawdle in this mess any longer!

Ugh, I hate pulling **** like this because I know what it looks like. "Crazy guy on a bike playing in highway traffic!" It's a slow, but busy, highway. But, still, a highway filled with impatient people.

So, whatever poor slob has to pay for me being a dumbass. Sorry. I should have just stopped at the end of the shoulder and waited for traffic to pass, then cut across into the turn lane. It'd look just as ridiculous, but no one would care because I'm behind them.

Damn urban highways.

Sounds like a game of Frogger.

What video did you rent? Was it "Two Lane Blacktop", by any chance?

Adventureland. Kinda mediocre. Better than the two I returned though.

It felt a little like a game of frogger. Except the cars were afraid to kill the frog. But it felt too much like frogger for my tastes.

As long as you signaled, and didn't ride recklessly into someone's path, it sounds like it was fine.

I don't get it.

Same thing happens sometimes when I'm driving. I get everything all timed out, and then the other drivers slow down or speed up, and the game's off.

I don't get it.

Yeah, me neither.

I don't get it.


Yeah, me neither.

Sounds like he essentially made a left turn from the far right hand side of the road... rather then making lateral moves to each individual lane.

I watch this all happening behind me with my head turned. The right lane slows, eventually. The left lane slows early. In fact, everyone slows down to my speed.

<snip>

Ugh, I hate pulling **** like this because I know what it looks like. "Crazy guy on a bike playing in highway traffic!" It's a slow, but busy, highway. But, still, a highway filled with impatient people.


Actually it sounds like the motorists were more than patient with you. The lesson here is to merge sooner if you want to use the left turn lane.

doesn't sound like the OP did anything wrong to me. Smart drivers react to situations they don't understand by slowing down. It's not the OP's fault that the other drivers didn't understand what they should do in that situation.

Some people are saying they were patient. I'm calling them confused.

They were slowing down because you had your head turned towards them and they couldn't tell what the heck you were going to do. They don't know you, so for all they could guess, you might have been someone looking to commit suicide, a crazyhead ready to throw something at a car, ... really, who knows?

Additionally, the people just a few cars back couldn't tell what was going on, and the lead cars' brake lights probably caught them by surprise. This was why the two cars pulled around the right side to pass.

Lastly, drivers normally expect to see others cross their path at intersections, not a hundred or more yards away from them.

This is why I'd only cross and make a turn like this at an intersection. If there isn't one, I take the shortest distance between the two most important points, which here would be straight across from one side of the road to the other. The less time spent in a spot that others don't expect to see me, the better.

The inept drivers are bad enough -- there's no need to confuse them even further.

Some people are saying they were patient. I'm calling them confused.I agree some may have been confused. Still, I contend they were not being impatient, or they would have passed at speed anyway. That's what impatient drivers do.


Lastly, drivers normally expect to see others cross their path at intersections, not a hundred or more yards away from them.

So you're saying drivers don't expect to see others change lanes in between intersections? This is normal traffic flow.


This is why I'd only cross and make a turn like this at an intersection. If there isn't one, I take the shortest distance between the two most important points, which here would be straight across from one side of the road to the other.

Are you saying you only would take this turn like a pedestrian in the crosswalk?

I agree some may have been confused. Still, I contend they were not being impatient, or they would have passed at speed anyway. That's what impatient drivers do.

Not if they're afraid of being held up by dealing with a dead cyclist. They'd prefer to keep going if possible, of course, but if they think they might run someone over, they'll hold back.


So you're saying drivers don't expect to see others change lanes in between intersections? This is normal traffic flow.

No, I'm saying that they don't expect someone else -- especially something besides a car or truck moving at speed, and instead is pretty close to a dead stop (50-something mph vs. 10-12 mph is a huge difference) -- to be crossing at a place that's not a designated, standard, marked crossing.


Are you saying you only would take this turn like a pedestrian in the crosswalk?

It depends, but usually not like a pedestrian -- probably a box turn if I have to. I sure wouldn't stall that long before making a move all the way over. If the traffic is a couple blocks back, it might seem like a healthy distance, but if I know that they're moving pretty quickly, waiting until they pass would be a better idea. I'd let them go, get to the intersection, and when the next big gap comes along, I can cross without any interference to worry about.

Besides, let's face it -- unless you're cruising beyond 20 mph, you're really not that fast, and taking a little slower but more predictable route would be less aggravating.

Actually it sounds like the motorists were more than patient with you. The lesson here is to merge sooner if you want to use the left turn lane.

That's what I do, traffic permitting I start moving over a block or two before my turn. If traffic is too heavy to safely allow me to do this then I make a right hand turn and either another and go down an alley then come out on 34 Ave then turn onto 9th and am able to safely get over. Or I just hook a U-Turn and come back to the intersection and am able to get into the left hand turn lane.

Yup, merge at the first opportunity when you're approaching your turn; hesitation causes more traffic snafu's than just about anything -- except maybe excessive aggression.

Congratulations. You are now a Vehicular Cyclist.

So I move out into the right lane thinking: "The right lane will slow, the left lane will wiz by, the right lane will pull around and wiz by, and I'll be able to move over into the left hand turn lane where I need to be to make my left hand turn."
WRONG.

I watch this all happening behind me with my head turned. The right lane slows, eventually. The left lane slows early. In fact, everyone slows down to my speed. Except the two guys that pulled into the right turn lane to pass.
.

I used to occasionally have this problem until I got a mirror. I found that when I turned my head to check for traffic conditions that motorists responded to it as a turn signal, a desire to merge immediately, and slowed for me when I would have rather had them 'wiz' by so I could merge behind them. Of course I still perform the head turn check before the final merge, but only after the vehicles I want to 'wiz' by have already done so.

Just the very act of checking traffic conditions with a head turn changes the traffic conditions. Not always desirable as you found out.

I used to occasionally have this problem until I got a mirror. I found that when I turned my head to check for traffic conditions that motorists responded to it as a turn signal, a desire to merge immediately, and slowed for me when I would have rather had them 'wiz' by so I could merge behind them. Of course I still perform the head turn check before the final merge, but only after the vehicles I want to 'wiz' by have already done so.

Just the very act of checking traffic conditions with a head turn changes the traffic conditions. Not always desirable as you found out.

I've seen both extremes... and on the same road, same time, different days. Do the head turn just to check traffic conditions (more info than just via mirror) and traffic makes a hole for me... cool, but not ready to turn. (to turn at that point would mean taking the left lane until the left turn out comes up... not cool) On the other hand, doing head check, signaling and everyone passes by like I am not even there. End up having to do the "chicken left" (up to the light, cross then stop there and wait for the light to change to cross.)

Of course it all depends on finding a co-operative motorist or two... sometimes they are there, other times you're just "chopped liver."

Have had the same situation when leaving an interstate (riding the shoulder where it is legal and marked) and needing to make a left turn at the top of a steep ramp... me moving at 8MPH. I can't go until someone exiting slows down to my speed... someone always has, but some times, many cars have to pass first... no matter how much I look back and hold my arm straight out.

And yet some call this "co-operation." :rolleyes:

Not if they're afraid of being held up by dealing with a dead cyclist. They'd prefer to keep going if possible, of course, but if they think they might run someone over, they'll hold back.



No, I'm saying that they don't expect someone else -- especially something besides a car or truck moving at speed, and instead is pretty close to a dead stop (50-something mph vs. 10-12 mph is a huge difference) -- to be crossing at a place that's not a designated, standard, marked crossing.



It depends, but usually not like a pedestrian -- probably a box turn if I have to. I sure wouldn't stall that long before making a move all the way over. If the traffic is a couple blocks back, it might seem like a healthy distance, but if I know that they're moving pretty quickly, waiting until they pass would be a better idea. I'd let them go, get to the intersection, and when the next big gap comes along, I can cross without any interference to worry about.

A box turn is a bad idea at this particular intersection. The crosswalks are particularly ugly, the intersection is much too big, people try to run the lights on all sides, and left turners ignore the crosswalks because they're worried about turning between the opening in semi's.

Plus, in order to do the box turn I have to ride in a right turn lane, or the right lane, for a hundred yards :). Similar dilemma.

I might have just cut over to the left lane immediately. I had plenty of time to get over there, but for inane reasons preferred staying to the right until I could get the left turn lane.

Actually it sounds like the motorists were more than patient with you. The lesson here is to merge sooner if you want to use the left turn lane.

The ones passing on my right weren't being patient ;). Patient enough for me, but not for the law.

I agree, that's the conclusion I've come to as well.

I've seen both extremes... and on the same road, same time, different days. Do the head turn just to check traffic conditions (more info than just via mirror)

I always get more than enough information from a mirror check alone to know if the timing is right to initiate the merge process. By initiate I mean a head turn and/or arm signaling the desire to merge, I do not mean actually start changing lanes from mirror check alone.

I really can't emphasize it enough. One of the primary reasons (not just a secondary benefit) I use a mirror is to avoid the situation of other drivers responding to a head turn. Before I had a mirror I was so frustrated with motorist slowing just because I was looking behind me, especially when their slowing changed conditions enough to make it less desirable to merge.

The topic you brought up of motorists not responding to a head turn or arm signal is a different issue altogether - although if we are going there the cyclist controlled response to this is to initiate merges earlier.

I always get more than enough information from a mirror check alone to know if the timing is right to initiate the merge process. By initiate I mean a head turn and/or arm signaling the desire to merge, I do not mean actually start changing lanes from mirror check alone.

I really can't emphasize it enough. One of the primary reasons (not just a secondary benefit) I use a mirror is to avoid the situation of other drivers responding to a head turn. Before I had a mirror I was so frustrated with motorist slowing just because I was looking behind me, especially when their slowing changed conditions enough to make it less desirable to merge.

The topic you brought up of motorists not responding to a head turn or arm signal is a different issue altogether - although if we are going there the cyclist controlled response to this is to initiate merges earlier.

I have a mirror... and really miss it when I ride a bike without (my MTB for instance, where the mirror would not last "10 seconds," off road due to branches and the like). While the mirror often does provide plenty of info, there are places that due to road curvature, I need more info. Sometimes ya gotta look back.

As far as initiating merges earlier... well as I said, same road, same time of day, one day it works, another it doesn't (most often it works), and if I were to initiate sooner, I would be taking the lane, uphill in 50MPH traffic, long before the actual left turn lane... I don't think that would garner me too many "vehicular friends."

Clarification... remember this is CA, where sometimes a turn signal in a car can get you cut off... you indicate the turn, have plenty of room and then someone zooms right up to fill that space... no consideration of your signal. I think the same "co-operative" mentality is played against cyclists too... "no way I am slowing down for that guy..." This sort of "un-friendly" driving is why I laugh when Forester talks about 'co-operation" on the road...

I have actually been flipped off by a motorist while I was driving on the freeway... for signaling. Guy pulled up, filled the space sneered and flipped me off. Ya gotta wonder.

Now if everyone "drove friendly," that would be a different situation all together. Of course if frogs had wings...

there are places that due to road curvature, I need more info. Sometimes ya gotta look back.

If you can't see round the curve with with a mirror you can't see round it with a direct view.
Perhaps it depends on the mirror, but with mine I can see a very wide swath of space (from sidewalk to sidewalk and beyond on a straight 7 lane arterial.



Clarification... remember this is CA, where sometimes a turn signal in a car can get you cut off...
I wonder if masses who have migrated from CA to AZ suddenly became courteous drivers?

If you can't see round the curve with with a mirror you can't see round it with a direct view.
Perhaps it depends on the mirror, but with mine I can see a very wide swath of space (from sidewalk to sidewalk and beyond on a straight 7 lane arterial.


Uh, I can see a lot more (and at the proper angle) by turning my head... same as in a car. The mirror points to a static spot, and a curve means that static spot may be in the wrong place. Same reason you ultimately actually do turn your head before making a lateral move.




I wonder if masses who have migrated from CA to AZ suddenly became courteous drivers?

Well you do have "open carry" in AZ that we don't have in CA. :D

<Snip>

And yet some call this "co-operation." :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know what ya mean. Some people have funny definitions, don't they? ;-)

I used to occasionally have this problem until I got a mirror. I found that when I turned my head to check for traffic conditions that motorists responded to it as a turn signal, a desire to merge immediately, and slowed for me when I would have rather had them 'wiz' by so I could merge behind them.


I always get more than enough information from a mirror check alone to know if the timing is right to initiate the merge process. By initiate I mean a head turn and/or arm signaling the desire to merge, I do not mean actually start changing lanes from mirror check alone.

I really can't emphasize it enough. One of the primary reasons (not just a secondary benefit) I use a mirror is to avoid the situation of other drivers responding to a head turn.

+1 to these. The apparently static position of a mirror is also solved by using a helmet mirror instead of one on the bars, and I can see a whole lot of stuff without turning my head more than partway (say, much less than 45 degrees from straight ahead).

I keep thinking of posting a poll for mirror users, too, asking whether or not they wear glasses. I do, and if I try to rely on looking out the corner of my eye, I can't make sense of the blur that I'd see. Without a mirror, I have to twist my head further to the rear than anyone who doesn't need glasses, and it really gets awkward.

I wear glasses too - with a very strong prescription. Nice to agree on things B.Si as we sometimes butt heads here.

Have had the same situation when leaving an interstate (riding the shoulder where it is legal and marked) and needing to make a left turn at the top of a steep ramp... me moving at 8MPH. I can't go until someone exiting slows down to my speed... someone always has, but some times, many cars have to pass first... no matter how much I look back and hold my arm straight out.

And yet some call this "co-operation." :rolleyes:

Some of them just don't care. Some of them think that there's a gap for you not far behind them ("Hm, well, I'll bet he can make his turn in a few seconds.."), and some -- probably most, actually -- don't want to get rear-ended after stopping to let you cross.

I tell ya, in fast traffic, the thought of stomping the brakes for no apparent reason (there's no guarantee that the guy behind is seeing the same hazards I am) is pretty nerve-wracking. It's like trying to stand still at the entrance of Toys R Us when the doors open on Black Friday.

I wear glasses too - with a very strong prescription. Nice to agree on things B.Si as we sometimes butt heads here.

We NEVER butt heads. Idiot.

:innocent::lol:


Uh, I can see a lot more (and at the proper angle) by turning my head... same as in a car. The mirror points to a static spot, and a curve means that static spot may be in the wrong place. Same reason you ultimately actually do turn your head before making a lateral move.

Well, the mirror in a car points to a static spot, but there's the significant advantage of having three mirrors, too. Aim them correctly, without duplicating or overlap, and you can see almost everything. As a car passes mine, I can see it first in the rear view mirror, then it appears in the side mirror, and before its rear bumper leaves the side mirror, I can see it without turning my head.

Best to have a BMW advanced driving instructor demonstrate it -- check out the two-part Mirrors videos:
http://www.yrp.ca/erase/Video.htm

I still advocate turning the head as one last check, but it makes me nervous to see someone leaning forward out of their seat with their face almost pressing on the side glass for several seconds at a time, hoping to merge or change lanes while not keeping track of what's going on in front of them. That's a great recipe for a rear-end collision.