Triathlon - Need swim advice... thinking about a tri next year

Hi,

I've been thinking about doing a tri some time next year. It seems fun and a great way to feel good about achieving something. But I can't swim! And I can't stand cold water. I'm 40 and I took my first swim lesson a month ago. Now I can swim about 20 yards at the most before needing to stand up in the pool! The pool I swim in is maintained at 81 degress but it always feel like it's 65 to me when I first jump in. I live in the Seattle area, so I can't imagine any tris around here with water that's anywhere near that warm.

How many of you learned to swim late in life and managed to finish a tri? Are there bouys or something you can hold onto if you get really tired and need to stop and rest during the swim? I guess I could always just backfloat if I'm too tired.

Do the wet suits make a cold lake feel like it's 81 degrees?

I'd really like to figure out this swim part. I can do the biking and running ok for a guy who has a weakened leg from years of back problems.

I just noticed the sticky thread for new swimmers!

There is a lot of good info on here about swimming, just search around and you'll be loaded down with reading.

The pool water will feel just fine to you once you get moving. If you are only swimming a short distance then you are never gettting warmed up and therefore the water continues to feel cold. Read a bunch of the other threads and then ask some questions based on what you have read and where you are in your training. You have a lot of time to get ready and if you learn a couple of basic techniques you'll be swimming a mile+ in no-time.

Wet suits are a great help in cooler water. I swam in 52° water this March with a sleeveless suit and it wasn't tooooo bad. The suit also provides some much needed bouyancy that could be very important to a less confident swimmer. And yes you can roll over and bacstroke. Lots of peole do it and there is no shame in it.

You might want to look for some indoor tri's first. They are pool swims and that could help boost your confidence in the water. See if your gym has a masters class. Many are offered for a small fee (mine is free with gym membership). Talk to the coaches and other swimmers. Get a few tips and some drills to work on. Don't try to do everything at once. Work on one drill at a time and master it then move on. Trying to think about arm position, body rotation, looking down, breathing styles, what to do with your feet, etc. can be overwhelming so take it slow - you have time.

Good luck and check back with updates. Everyone here is more than willing to help.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Triathlon.

how much difference does tight swim suits make? I'm currently practicing with baggy swim trunks? For instance, my first goal is to swim 50 meters in 1 minute. If I had tight swim trunks/tri shorts/wet suit, how much faster would that be?

2 seconds maybe.

I guess it depends on how baggy you trunks are.

Anyway, get some jammers and be done with it.

At this stage in the game it doesn't really matter. You need to concentrate on learning to swim and the other stuff will come later.

I didn't get a pair of tri shorts until this year - my second season. I trained most of last year in a regular pair of swim trunks then got a pair of long speedo's. Did I notice a difference? Not really. My swim stroke has changed a lot from when I started and I really atribute the increased speed and decreased time to better technique.

So, for now I would focus on learning some drills and getting your endourance up.

2 seconds? Hmm, then I can't blame my turtle swim speed on my trunks!

If I just do kicking with a kick board and with a push off the wall at the start, what's a good time to have for 25 yards? A good time being someone who finishes in the top 10% of the swim portion of a triathlon?

Hi Adam,
A 25m time for kicking with a board is pretty irrelevant really.
The top 10% of a triathlon open water field will be finishing in 17-20 minutes, but don't let that freak you out.
You need to get some technique, sir. Have a chat at your local pool about lessons for adults. Don't worry about floundering around - it just means that your learning curve will be steeper than others!
Best of luck.

Thanks. I did take a beginner's lesson and we learned the basics of kicking, arm stroke, and breathing. I asked about the kicking since I wanted to make sure I was kicking correctly. Of course, I concentrate on the other parts one at a time as well, but kicking was something i could measure since I can't quite make it across the pool yet.

Now you also need to keep in mind that many triathletes don't kick at all...their legs just follow along for the ride. Once I get into my rhythm I very rarely kick. Maybe to get around someone or turning at the bouy but other than that - no kicking. You want your legs to be as rested as possible when you hit the bike.

Find a tri with a pool swim. A few less variables to worry about....

Now you also need to keep in mind that many triathletes don't kick at all...their legs just follow along for the ride. Once I get into my rhythm I very rarely kick. Maybe to get around someone or turning at the bouy but other than that - no kicking. You want your legs to be as rested as possible when you hit the bike.

I didn't think freestyle kicking could tire your legs enough to affect your cycling. I guess I'd have to experience it first hand to see how much of a difference it makes.

Find a tri with a pool swim. A few less variables to worry about....

That would be perfect, but I can't seem to find any here in the Seattle area.

Sometimes those indoor tri's aren't sanctioned events but rather just internal gym events so they aren't listed on sites like www.trifind.com (http://www.trifind.com) . You might want to get in touch with some local triathlon clubs and find out what events they are aware of. Or just go ahead and join one, the information alone would be a great help in getting you started.

I didn't think much about kicking when I did my first triathlon in 2008 - an Olymic distance. I just figured I would swim it like I always swam - lots of arms and legs. But I got tired a lot and flipped over and backstroked a bunch. By the time I was 1/4 through the bike I was toast. This year I barely kicked at all and I was feeling great when I hit T1. I then proceeded to knock 18 minutes off my bike time and 10 minutes off my run time. Add that on top of the 1:30 I shaved off the swim in choppier waters than the year before.

All that to say that I think you might want to give swiming without kicking a try. See if your pool has swim bouys, or pull bouys or whatever they are called, that you can use. They are figure 8 shaped foam pads that you place between your legs. It helps you work on your body roll and helps to get your legs higher in the water among other things.

Without trying to throw too much at you at one time here is a question for you. How are you breathing? Every stroke, every stroke-and-a-half? Reason I ask is that I was having the same type issue that you are having at the beginning of my training for this season. I was breathing iradically and my muscles weren't getting the oxygen they needed - therefore I was getting tired very quickly, stopping after every 100-200 yards. I asked the masters coach to look at my stroke and he gave me a drill to get me breathing every stroke-and-a-half (1-2-3-breath right / 1-2-3-breath left - bilateral breathing).

DRILL: Using fins roll to your right side with right arm out. Kick six times. Roll into a bilateral breathing pattern. As you come up to breath (now on the left side) stay on your side with left arm out and kick six times. Then roll into bilateral breathing pattern and repeat. After a few hundred yards I was very comfortable with the pattern so much that I just started swimming without the fins. BUT...

I still wasn't getting enough air and so now I breathe every stroke. Every time my left arm goes forward, I breathe. That first day that I switched I swam 2500 yards non-stop and I haven't had an issue since.

SO figure out your breathing and then we'll tackle what comes next.

P.S. Anyone with more experience than me feel free to chime in...I am no expert by any means. Just trying to be helpful.

2 seconds maybe.

I guess it depends on how baggy you trunks are.

Anyway, get some jammers and be done with it.

I just got tri shorts... and the difference is huge! I can easily swim halfway across on the first breath now. Definitely more than 2s. My old shorts were baggy and the waist was 2 inches too big (i couldn't tie it more than that).

But I got tired a lot and flipped over and backstroked a bunch. By the time I was 1/4 through the bike I was toast.
When you backstroke, how much of a problem is with water getting in your nose?



All that to say that I think you might want to give swiming without kicking a try. See if your pool has swim bouys, or pull bouys or whatever they are called, that you can use. They are figure 8 shaped foam pads that you place between your legs. It helps you work on your body roll and helps to get your legs higher in the water among other things.

Ahh, is that why they're shaped like that? I'll definitly try that.



Without trying to throw too much at you at one time here is a question for you. How are you breathing? Every stroke, every stroke-and-a-half?

I breathe (or try to breathe) every 3 strokes. the problem I have is that every time I breathe, I expend too much energy trying to get the breath. My head is too high for too long. After the breath, it feels like my body sunk 1 feet below the water so I have to swim my way back to the surface.



DRILL: Using fins roll to your right side with right arm out. Kick six times. Roll into a bilateral breathing pattern. As you come up to breath (now on the left side) stay on your side with left arm out and kick six times. Then roll into bilateral breathing pattern and repeat. After a few hundred yards I was very comfortable with the pattern so much that I just started swimming without the fins. BUT...


I'll definitely try that.



I still wasn't getting enough air and so now I breathe every stroke. Every time my left arm goes forward, I breathe. That first day that I switched I swam 2500 yards non-stop and I haven't had an issue since.

SO figure out your breathing and then we'll tackle what comes next.

P.S. Anyone with more experience than me feel free to chime in...I am no expert by any means. Just trying to be helpful.
If I can keep my head from getting submerged so much after the breath, I'll try breathing every stroke.

Thanks for the suggestions.

When you backstroke, how much of a problem with water getting in your nose?

This shouldn't be an issue since your face should be above the water level.

Ahh, is that why they're shaped like that? I'll definitly try that.

This is a great swim tool and will help you get a good feel for swimming downhill rather than uphill which is what it sounds like you are doing. You shouldn't be kicking much at all with these between your legs. Take it slow and get a feel for how your body should roll in the water. I am nearly vertical and fully extended with each stroke.

I breathe (or try to breathe) every 3 strokes. the problem I have is that every time I breathe, I expend too much energy trying to get the breath. My head is too high for too long. After the breath, it feels like my body sunk 1 feet below the water so I have to swim my way back to the surface.

Are you breathing to the side or lifting your head straight up? The head should really just barely come out of the water. When your face is in the water you should be looking down not forward. Then when you breathe your head should just rotate to the side - not lift out. I begin to exhale as I am starting my head turn therefore I am ready to breathe when my mouth is out of the water. This took me a little getting used to but once I got a feel for it...it felt great.

Your legs are likely going down with each breath and that is what they call swimming uphill. You are creating drag and besides slowing you down it is tiring you out. The drills that I suggested and any others that you can find will greatly help you fix your form and ease your motion in the water. Your legs should be right at the water level even if they are just along for the ride.

I'll definitely try that.

This is really a good drill and has become one of my favorites. You'll get a great sense of how to roll in the water and how to breathe consistently. Once you get a good feel for the drill change it up a little...kick 4 times or 2 times. But do it for a few hundred yards at minimum and do it a little every time you go swim. Take this slowly and really concentrate on form and on breathing. Remember you should be flowing through the water not fighting through it

NOTE: part of getting better at swimming is doing different drills. If you just get in there are swim laps you'll get bored.

Another good program to utilize is the "Zero to 1650". I used this at the beginning of my training this year and it was a great help in getting me comfortable in the water and giving me a goal for each swim. The website is: http://ruthkazez.com/ZeroTo1mile.html

Later.

I'd join a masters team now -- that way you'll have plenty of time to improve your swimming. Also, consider getting a pair of fins (swimmers fins). They will help you with not only your body position, but your breathing.

Check the USMS site for programs near you :)

I start out breathing every three strokes with a good kick to get me away from the pack. After a while I switch to every other stroke. I keep a good steady kick. If kicking is really that bad start adding some kick into your workout. My coach has us doing tons of kick. Our most common kick workout is 5x100 kick on 2:00. 2:00 might be a little to fast for you but try to make it so that when you finish you have very little rest, and you are pretty much sprinting on the kick. The best way to start going faster is to make sure you are always looking straight down. This helps keep your legs straight and it makes you more hydrodynamic. Also, remember that all swimming should be done on your side, not on your stomach. Just practice rolling to each side as mentioned above.

I start out breathing every three strokes with a good kick to get me away from the pack. After a while I switch to every other stroke. I keep a good steady kick. If kicking is really that bad start adding some kick into your workout. My coach has us doing tons of kick. Our most common kick workout is 5x100 kick on 2:00. 2:00 might be a little to fast for you but try to make it so that when you finish you have very little rest, and you are pretty much sprinting on the kick. The best way to start going faster is to make sure you are always looking straight down. This helps keep your legs straight and it makes you more hydrodynamic. Also, remember that all swimming should be done on your side, not on your stomach. Just practice rolling to each side as mentioned above.

2:00 per 100 yds? I must be doing something wrong. I can only manage 1:00 at my fastest for *25* yards with a kickboard.

I should probably also learn the backstroke and breaststroke so that I can be comfortable with them when I need a break. Which do you think is better to turn to when you're exhausted but still want to keep moving during the race?

1:00 for 25 yds...you must be doing something wrong. I would take all the advice that you have been getting and put it aside for a bit except for one thing...find a Masters class near you and get the coach to watch you and give you some tips, drills and guideance.

There is only so much we can do on-line to help you and it sounds like you need someone to watch you swim and see what you are doing wrong.

I just went to www.usms.org (http://www.usms.org) and found this listing in your area. I would check into them and then go from there.

Redmond Pacific Northwest (http://www.usms.org/lmsc/lmscinfoform.php?LMSCID=36) LMSC Redmond 17535 NE 104TH Redmond, Washington Lap Swim / Workout Times: Lap swim M-F 6-7:30am, 8-9pm Contacts: (206)296-2961
Keep us up to date on your progress.

Good luck.

One more thing, make sure that when you do talk to a coach that you let them know you are training for "triathlon". Regular Masters swimming is geared towards swim meets not triathlon and so some of the workouts may need to be adjusted to be geared for your goal.

Thanks for the info. I already have an excellent facility for practicing and taking classes. I'll have to ask the swim instructor in my class that i'm currently in what I'm doing wrong.

From searching the Internet though, I suspect I have runner's kick (http://swimming.about.com/od/freeandback/a/runner_kick.htm) (I'm mainly a runner). I don't know about others, but I can't point my feet straight down. If I sit on my heals (like in a child's sitting position), there's about 1cm of gap between the floor and the front part of my ankle. It's even bigger on my other foot.

check out this web site.. tcsd.org.lots of good info and very helpful links and free access to coaches,beginner to ironman...i joined the club and went from total couch potato to sprit tri in two months. it was tough.i did the back stroke on the swim! just keep swimming it will come,took me about 3 months of drinking pool water before i could freestyle.i am 46. didnt know how to swim.it is now fun for me and i dont drink much pool water now.
Yes a tri specific wet suit does make it easier to float! you still need all of the proper stroke that you learned in the pool though.Yes it does keep you warmHighly recomend for beginners for open water swimming.
Remember have fun! It will come.

I was at the same point as you when I started a Master's program in May 2009 - including the issue with the runner's kick. Do yourself a BIG favor and buy yourself a pair of Zoomers. Focus on kick drills and you will get better - albeit slowly.

I did an Olympic this past weekend in the Pacific and swam freestyle continuously for the entire 1500 meters - with plenty of fuel in the tank at the end. BTW, I am 60+ so age should not be an issue.

I'm a crappy swimemr so the only advice I have is 100% get some pairs of Jammers. Its much easier to pay attention to your form when you don't have swim shorts flopping around.

I was at the same point as you when I started a Master's program in May 2009 - including the issue with the runner's kick. Do yourself a BIG favor and buy yourself a pair of Zoomers. Focus on kick drills and you will get better - albeit slowly.

I did an Olympic this past weekend in the Pacific and swam freestyle continuously for the entire 1500 meters - with plenty of fuel in the tank at the end. BTW, I am 60+ so age should not be an issue.

Actually, my health club has those particular model (but it's hard to find my size). They definitely help get the feel of kicking.

Right now, I'm also going through Total Immersion DVDs to help with the breathing and the stroke. Very good DVD.

now you also need to keep in mind that many triathletes don't kick at all...their legs just follow along for the ride. Once i get into my rhythm i very rarely kick. Maybe to get around someone or turning at the buoy but other than that - no kicking. You want your legs to be as rested as possible when you hit the bike.

+1

I just got tri shorts... and the difference is huge! I can easily swim halfway across on the first breath now. Definitely more than 2s. My old shorts were baggy and the waist was 2 inches too big (i couldn't tie it more than that).

Baggy beach drawers or what I call "dork shorts" will effect your swimming, that is why real swimmers wear a Speedo type suit.

Go get yourself a proper competition suit, the jammer type is fine, get yourself some good goggles, get some hand paddles and get a swim board.

Take the swim board and jam it between your thighs and cross your legs to hold it. That's right, don't kick with your legs at all. The board will help add buoyancy and allow you to work with your arms to develop a strong stroke and good breathing rhythm. I suggest you breath to one side only, right side for most to begin with and take a breath every stroke, exhale between. Roll your body and turn your head to get a breath, do not lift your head, your head will form a "bow" wake which will sweep down providing a little area to breath in.

In time you will need to learn to breath to either side for open water swimming, maybe due to wind and waves, open water swimming is not like swimming in a pool.

Your goal is a mile in under 30 minutes which BTW is rather slow is still a good threshold point between being a good swimmer and barely adequate.

I used to put a lead strip on my hand paddles to weight them down and drilled 1/2 inch holes in them to add drag, you might do that in the future, but not now.

Oh, one other thing, relax.

Baggy beach drawers or what I call "dork shorts" will effect your swimming, that is why real swimmers wear a Speedo type suit.

Go get yourself a proper competition suit, the jammer type is fine, get yourself some good goggles, get some hand paddles and get a swim board.

Take the swim board and jam it between your thighs and cross your legs to hold it. That's right, don't kick with your legs at all. The board will help add buoyancy and allow you to work with your arms to develop a strong stroke and good breathing rhythm. I suggest you breath to one side only, right side for most to begin with and take a breath every stroke, exhale between. Roll your body and turn your head to get a breath, do not lift your head, your head will form a "bow" wake which will sweep down providing a little area to breath in.

In time you will need to learn to breath to either side for open water swimming, maybe due to wind and waves, open water swimming is not like swimming in a pool.

Your goal is a mile in under 30 minutes which BTW is rather slow is still a good threshold point between being a good swimmer and barely adequate.

I used to put a lead strip on my hand paddles to weight them down and drilled 1/2 inch holes in them to add drag, you might do that in the future, but not now.

Oh, one other thing, relax.

I heard hand paddles are bad for your shoulders, but I do like using the kickboard and the fins.

I'm finally able to swim the pool length (25yds) on most attempts. My time so far is 36s which is pretty slow for just 25 yards. 22s was my best with fins. I wasn't trying for a sprint but attempted a pace I hoped I could keep up for 800 yards eventually.

I found that it is easier to breath on my right because my left shoulder is more flexible (it's easier to reach "up" during the breath. The right is the side I go to when breathing every other stroke.

Trying to breathe in that wake is tough. It's hard to find. My nose often gets filled with water easily (I had sinus surgery before so water easily gets in everywhere in my sinus cavities). I'll need to find some good noseclips.

I heard hand paddles are bad for your shoulders, but I do like using the kickboard and the fins.

I'm finally able to swim the pool length (25yds) on most attempts. My time so far is 36s which is pretty slow for just 25 yards. 22s was my best with fins. I wasn't trying for a sprint but attempted a pace I hoped I could keep up for 800 yards eventually.

I found that it is easier to breath on my right because my left shoulder is more flexible (it's easier to reach "up" during the breath. The right is the side I go to when breathing every other stroke.

Trying to breathe in that wake is tough. It's hard to find. My nose often gets filled with water easily (I had sinus surgery before so water easily gets in everywhere in my sinus cavities). I'll need to find some good noseclips.

OK, then, well, good luck. I taught swimming, life guarding, scuba, competed tris and open water long distance swimming, Red Cross WSI etc. I will stick with what I recommended. Your arm stroke is more important than your kick, long distance swimmers rely more on arm power than kick. Your arms and shoulder need to be worked for flexibility, not bulk. You should breath EVERY stroke and you should not lift your head but you do as you like. Hope it works out for you. I recommend against nose clips.

OK, then, well, good luck. I taught swimming, life guarding, scuba, competed tris and open water long distance swimming, Red Cross WSI etc. I will stick with what I recommended. Your arm stroke is more important than your kick, long distance swimmers rely more on arm power than kick. Your arms and shoulder need to be worked for flexibility, not bulk. You should breath EVERY stroke and you should not lift your head but you do as you like. Hope it works out for you. I recommend against nose clips.

As someone who used noseclips AND who has similar sinus issues, I highly agree with this. I swam with Noseclips for a year and a half, then I got kicked in the face 3/4 of the way through the swim in the NYC Triathlon and lost them, I had to learn real quick how not to and I stopped using them since.

With the sinus issues it is uncomfortable for the first few weeks swimming without them, but in the end you will get used to it (You should be breathing out through your nose under water). That said I'm sure I would have had an easier time adapting if I started like that from the beginning instead of having to re-train myself how to breathe while I swim.

Any other cons for noseclips other than the possibility of losing them during the swim? Is it easier to catch a breath without them?

I don't like to lift my head, of course. I definitely slow down as a result and waste a lot of energy! So it's just gonna take some experience to feel exactly when to take the breath in that wake.

Any other cons for noseclips other than the possibility of losing them during the swim? Is it easier to catch a breath without them?

I don't like to lift my head, of course. I definitely slow down as a result and waste a lot of energy! So it's just gonna take some experience to feel exactly when to take the breath in that wake.

Its easier to get a rhythym to your breathing without them which is all important in swimming. As well no matter how good they are youre still gonna get water in there anyway.

During my transition to breathing every stroke I tried the nose clips. I was having an issue with water getting in my nose and so I tried them. I hated it.

I had been breathing to the left...why?...I don't know. When I started breathing to the right everything changed and I haven't had much of an issue since. My point: try something else before you go with clips.

It still sounds like you are trying to raise your head up looking forward - this is no good. Besides being hard on your neck and back, it slows you down by forcing your hips down creating drag. You really need to try to breath looking sideways - rotating your head from looking down to looking over your right/left shoulder.

If you remember the drill that I mentioned earlier, the one using fins while lying on your side with one arm outstretched, kick 6 times, roll into your stroke {1-2-3-breathe** roll to the other side and repeat. This is a simple and wonderful drill to get you used to the rhythym of breathing and the roll of the body in the water.

You are way ahead of the game since your goal is a triathlon next season. Take your time and get comfortable in the water. Keep asking questions and doing the things that you are learning from the TI DVD's. You'll get it.

Recently, I was able to swim 25 yards without breathing in 26s. Even without breathing to break my form, this is the fastest I could do (I wasn't sprinting, but I was at 80% effort). I'm amazed how other people can do this while breathing near 20s!

My best 25 yd flutter kick with the kickboard is still only 55s. I think many swimmers can do this around 30s. So it seems my slow swim is due to my weak kicks. My arms basically allowed me to cut 29s off my 25yd time.

Look into www.totalimmersion.net (http://www.totalimmersion.net)

I just started into the triathlon world this summer and have a couple of Terry's (Laughlin) DVDs and books and his techniques helped me tremendously. If you're just learning to swim, then practice, practice, and more practice. Like me, don't worry too much about times - that will come with experience.
Good luck!

dont know if anyone suggested getting training fins but they will allow you to develop a nice stroke by allowing you to breathe easier because you have more propulsion from your kick. also paddles help alot because you feel the water more by adding resistance there. i suggest finding a masters swim program at your local ymca. there you will learn how to swim.

dont know if anyone suggested getting training fins but they will allow you to develop a nice stroke by allowing you to breathe easier because you have more propulsion from your kick. also paddles help alot because you feel the water more by adding resistance there. i suggest finding a masters swim program at your local ymca. there you will learn how to swim.

yeah, fins definitely help me breathe easier. Though I try not to use them too much. The faster speed creates a bigger wake for me to breathe within.

With the paddles, my right shoulder is injured (has been for 3 months... waiting for surgery) so I try to avoid them for now. I do feel like I have a good feel of the water with my hands/arms, but I'm sure there's always room for improvements.

I'll probably take one private lesson with my current swim class instructor to get good feedback.

I have been swimming in a masters swim program for roughly 8 months now, before this i had 0 experience swimming laps although I have always been a strong swimmer. since I started i have come a long way although I have alot of room for improvent especially in the long endurance. this morning we did a 4200 yard workout in roughly 50 minutes. typically we do 3200 so needless to say i had to skip a few laps to keep up with the group. when i started i was lucky to do even half of a 3200 day, now im up to around 90% and on a good day i do the whole thing. swimming is something you have to really put in the time to get good at. it is the single hardest out of the 3 disceplines to perfect in my opinion. I train now 4 days a week in swim on of the days playing water polo now which i feel will really build my endurance. good luck and if you want to get serious about your swim find a masters group and start showing up regularly. i plan to do well in my next event but im putting in the time to do so. good luck

How is the swimming coming along?

Slowly getting better. Today I was finally able to swim 50 yards.

As I get more comfortable and familiar with the freestyle stroke, I was able to realize that my breathing problem mainly is occurring because I take the breath too late. I'm still breathing in when my recovery arm is past my head. I'm still trying to get the timing to be earlier, and when I do get it, the breathing is definitely easier. If I breathe too late, I tend to lift my head and/or use the other arm a lot for lift. Either way, it's bad.

Also, when I did breathe in the past, I wasn't inhaling that much even when i exhaled everything. It was because, again, I wasn't comfortable and familiar with the water. Now I'm feeling more comfortable so I can feel myself taking much bigger breaths.

Still a long way to go, but I was pretty surprised to cover 50 yards (in 1:10) without being exhausted. I'm mainly going through the TI techniques (book and video) since I'm more interested in swimming longer distances (400m +) than faster times for shorter distances.

I'll likely have to take a few weeks off of swimming in the winter. My right shoulder needs repair from a softball injury over the summer. Because of my shoulder issues, I try not to practice more than twice a week. Hopefully, I won't forget all my swim skills!

Sounds like you are making some good progress. Breathing can make or break you, so it is good that you are starting to get a feel for what works for you.

Keep up the good work.

I'm in the same boat just starting my training for tri's. Swimming has the highest learning curve and can be the most frustrating. So I got a real live coach that stands by the pool and gives me hell for what I'm doing wrong. She is the best I could find (collegiate team technique coach, open water distance swimmer and age grouper with several world records in her past). She's got me from flailing to finding speed and efficiency. A few months in and I can now break :40 for the 50m short course and my flip turns are ugly. So its progress.

But land fitness does not carry over to swimming. The breathing for me is the real problem. Even with proper technique and breathing on every stroke, I still go into significant oxygen debt on my flip turns and just catch up before the next turn. But I'm becomming a stronger confident swimmer which is a prerequisite for open water swimming.

I'm in the same boat just starting my training for tri's. Swimming has the highest learning curve and can be the most frustrating. So I got a real live coach that stands by the pool and gives me hell for what I'm doing wrong. She is the best I could find (collegiate team technique coach, open water distance swimmer and age grouper with several world records in her past). She's got me from flailing to finding speed and efficiency. A few months in and I can now break :40 for the 50m short course and my flip turns are ugly. So its progress.

But land fitness does not carry over to swimming. The breathing for me is the real problem. Even with proper technique and breathing on every stroke, I still go into significant oxygen debt on my flip turns and just catch up before the next turn. But I'm becomming a stronger confident swimmer which is a prerequisite for open water swimming.

It's a good sign that you can at least catch up on your breath. In the open water, you should be ok since no flip turns are needed.

I'll try getting a private lesson or two. That should really help me fix things I can't see.

I find swimming is like learning how to golf. Too many things to keep in mind... And everyone's got a different stroke.

You are so right in saying that there are many things to think about and as I am just know getting back into my training for next year (three months off) I am having to keep that in mind.

In the end, after all the things you read and hear and see...you need to do what feels best for you and what you feel will get you through the water and onto your bike with the greatest ease.

Proud of both of you and hope that you are enjoying the experience. Remember...this is fun.

Fred

I like to practice by swimming with a bouy between my thighs and every stroke as if there is a kick board floating infront of you, as you stroke forward you'll want to enter the water INFRONT of the kick board instead of "chopping" the water with your stroke. This will open up your reach and let you pull more water on the bottom portion of your stroke.

I for some reason havent really been into the bouys and fins. I prefer to try and put it all together every time im out there. 2 beat kicks, 6 beat kicks, flip turns, EVF, bi-lateral breathing, head position, everything. It was overwhelming at first but I'm getting the hang of it.

After taking two months off swimming for surgery in my right shoulder, I went from swimming 50 yards non-stop (as my max distance) before the break to 400 yards non-stop without any stroke practice in between. Maybe I should take more time off! I was actually watching swimming videos on youtube during that time and did a couple of sessions of just water balance on my back.

My right arm is still weak and stiff but I was still able to improve my 50 yard time from 1:10 to 59s. Still have lots of work to do. 6 months still to go before my first tri!

I'm wondering... I have pretty skinny arms. Would bulking up the arms help with grabbing more water for my pull?

Congrats on the 400 yds, that is a really nice improvement considering all the issues that you were dealing with. As far as the arm bulk goes I'll let a more knowledgeable person respond to that. But great job and welcome back to the water. I just hit the pool a few weeks back and am sloly getting my arm stength back. It takes a little while. My biggest issue is building up my lung capacity. That seems to be the first thing to go when you take time off. Lesson learned.


Fred