Professional Cycling For the Fans - Jan Giving Up?

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1842555


Basically the article says how Jan realizes that he's riding like struedel and has given carte blanche to Andreas Kloeden to go for the podium.

I don't know about given up, but if you want someone on your team to do well, you have to put all your support behind them. So if he sees that his teammate is doing better, I could see how he would say he would support the guy. But it is equally heartening to see that Kloeden is loyal to Jan and claims to support Jan, and it's equally heartening to see that Kloeden is verbally supporting Jan. I'm sure that helps to lift Jan's spirits, even if he doesn't have the confidence to be the team leader. I still think Jan can come back if he rides hard in the next week, but I guess we'll wait and see. I think Wednesday's time trial will give us an idea of how strong his legs really are.

Koffee

I think that if Jan was really giving up he would have found an excuse and abandoned the race. His support of Kloden shows a lot about what a class guy he is. I'm not giving up on him for a podium spot.

my jan icon will never give up!

I agree... I think Jan is showing a lot of class, something you don't often see in big name athletes of any sport.

Grrr. If only Jan would put that class into his training :p That man could really "put the screws" to Armstrong if he'd truly dedicate himself during the off-season. Jan is top-notch in my book and it's frustrating to hear him like this. I'm all for Lance for #6, but Jan could really have done it last year (and probably this year) if he'd trained to win. His attitude + his potential could equal the most-loved Tour champion ever if he'd just add the training :( Still, vote ULRICH FOR YELLOW in '06! :D

he will be there come the end of the week....at least thats what i think......who knows, he is one tough SOB

I don't see Jan giving up. Assuming he is stronger in the third week (as always) and doesn't lose any time, I see him with a podium finish. He can still rip people to shreds in the final TT.

From his Tour diary (http://www.t-mobile-team.com/cms/tmoteam/en/)

19.07.2004/ The Tour starts again tomorow, for the third time! Facing us are five hard days in the saddle, before we can even think about rolling in to Paris. Five days, in which - I promise - to fight to the bitter end. Five days, in which I will seek out chances to attack. I will only be satisfied when I can look at my image in the mirror after each stage, and say: "You gave it everything today:"

Maybe the yellow jersey is out of reach now, but there are still two more places on the podium to be decided. What's to stop me getting on the podium? Nothing - I'll take a day-to-day approach to things and try, as much as possible, to get up there. Let's see where this approach brings me.

Today, I am enjoying the laid-back mood and the picture-book surroundings of our team hotel "Manior de la Roseraie". The pleasant environment helps me relax and prepare mentally for the rest of the Tour.

Physically it has been an easy day. After an hour on the stationary bike, I went for a 60 minute training spin. Then my physio Birgit Krohme was waiting for me, ready to put her "magic hands" to work, getting the lactic acid out of my muscles. These two hours transform me. It's not just the muscles that benefit, but my mental well-being also.

Sure, I am unlikely now to meet the expectations of all my fans in this Tour. But believe me; coping with that is the hardest thing for me! I came to this Tour with one ultimate goal. That's unlikely now, but I can still try to turn things around.

I am encouraged by the fact that I know all the Alpine mountain passes we will be crossing really well. I know where I can attack on the climbs. Now I just need my legs to respond. Let's see how it goes!

Until tomorrow,

Jan
http://www.t-mobile-team.com/cms/tmoteam/de/property=blobBinary/id=25098.jpg

Oh and also from the day before. I'm sure psychologically he feels like a loser, but he's not being sore about it at all. He's being totally gracious and still optimistic both for himself making podium and for Kloeden.

18.07.2004/ Fortunately there were no mountains to climb today. The only thing making life difficult today was the wind. But after the breakaway jumped clear, things calmed down in the peloton. So, a nice stage before the rest day, and I can thank Sergei Ivanov and Daniele Nardello who worked hard as my "bodyguards" throughout.

The two of them looked after me well, shelttering me from the wind and keeping me well supplied with food and water. My friend Andreas Klöden has been freed from these duties. After his power-performances in the Pyrenees he is our other trump card for a GC place now. For this reason, we don't want him wasting valuable energy going backwards and forwards carrying water bottles.

For me "Klödi" has been a revelation in this Tour. I hope he can maintain his current level all the way to Paris. He was clearly the better man in the Pyrenees, so I've given him "Carte Blanche" in the Alps. I certainly won't split hairs over who works for whom.

Use "Klödi" just as a helper when he's in the form of his life? No way! For a start, I know he is currently capable of leaving me in his wake. That's not a good thing for my morale. Secondly, I dont want to make the mistake of using him to pace me in the Alps. I need to ride at my own rhythm.

In all truth, I was quite content to plough my own furrow on the climb to Plateau de Beille. It will only make sense to enlist Klödi's help in the Alps if its to our mutual benefit. If I think he has the stonger legs, then he not only should, but must, go for it alone.

I am fully concentrated on the final week now. It will be one battle after another, with no respite until we roll into Paris on Sunday. I'll need to be at 100 percent for the five stages of torture that lie ahead. That means a real break tomorrow: A two hours training spin, then rest - and no press interviews.

From now on, I want to let my performances on the bike do the talking for me.
http://www.t-mobile-team.com/cms/tmoteam/de/property=blobBinary/id=25098.jpg

Jan is a true fighter. I really hope that he finds his legs and is able to podium this year, and I think he will.

http://img36.exs.cx/img36/9449/janboobs.jpg

hahahahah nice!

Nice pic.

I wonder if Jan is using some of Armstrong's mind games, by saying that Klodi has carte blanche to try and win the race now USPS has to monitor both riders more closely... Ulrich's break from the Peleton today makes me wonder if he and Klodi can work together to try and wear Lance down.

Yeah, it looks like he's given up.

I don't think so, he's attacking Armstrong today.
I agree the yellow is out of the question for him but
I think he is racing for pride. I couldn't see him
just rolling over (like mayo?).

Marty

Armstrong and Basso's group is bringing him back down to earth.

The thing about Ullrich in the Tour is that, even when he seems off form, he looks to always give %100 (in the actual race, not necessarily preparation).
He will probably get a podium again. He's a fighter.

I have a particular love for Jan these days... after seeing him race in Lugano, and reading his diary notes and reading the interviews he's giving with regards to the Tour de France. I hadn't really rooted for anyone in particular, because as I said before, I think every rider up there is as strong and great as anyone else, and I'm just excited to see this level of racing. But Jan.... *sigh* he is just the shizzle. I was heartened today to see him breaking away, and I was also heartened to see a strong finish from him. I know he time trials well too, so I look forward to seeing how he does in the time trials. Barring mistakes, I think he will move up significantly in the GC after the individual time trial in the Alps. I can't see him losing time on this stage. Let's all pray for good weather for all the cyclists so we can see some of the best climbing techniques of any cyclists in the entire world. With 21 switchbacks up the Alps, this is probably going to be one of the most exciting races, if not the most exciting race, in the entire season. I can't wait.

Go Jan! But go everyone! I think all riders are doing incredibly well and I'm so psyched!

Koffee

Jan is alive. Hope he can keep it up. On stage 12 and 13 I was wondering if he was playing Lance a couple of years ago. When Lance looked to be struggling and rolling in the saddle. Maybe I am pipe dreaming but if he can gain a minute a day for 4 days he will be on the podium. Man, I glad to see he hasn't given up and still fighting.

While I'm glad to see Jan still hanging in there, I don't think he was trying
to bluff anyone. When Lance did his bluff he didn't lose any time, if you recall
he finished by winning the stage. I think the pace was just too high and
that Jan couldn't respond to it being lifted so much. I'm guessing that Jan
just ran out of steam and was having 2 really bad days.

Marty

The problem I have with Jan is, that on paper, he looks to be the strongest rider out there... even stronger than Lance, I believe. But his lack of training in the offseason is virtually non-existent. If he were to dedicate himself, he would be unstoppable. But he seems too lazy...

Lance trains nearly year round, and doesn;t have to worry about dropping 25 lbs. 2 months before a race...

I still wouldnt; count him out yet though... Jan is tough, and he probably won;t win, but he'll be in the top 5 or so... TT tomorrow should help narrow out the field

jeff

The problem I have with Jan is, that on paper, he looks to be the strongest rider out there... even stronger than Lance, I believe. But his lack of training in the offseason is virtually non-existent. If he were to dedicate himself, he would be unstoppable. But he seems too lazy.

Which is why he needs Rudy Pevenage or Bjarne Riis on his ass, instead of Godefroot who seems to not have a clue what "team" means. It doesn't seem like Ulle is one of those riders who looks inward for motivation, but he flourishes greatly in the hands of the right sportif.

p.s., did you see his journal entry for today? Sounds like an excited little kiddie. "I was in form again today!"

The problem I have with Jan is, that on paper, he looks to be the strongest rider out there... even stronger than Lance, I believe. But his lack of training in the offseason is virtually non-existent. If he were to dedicate himself, he would be unstoppable. But he seems too lazy...

Lance trains nearly year round, and doesn;t have to worry about dropping 25 lbs. 2 months before a race...

I still wouldnt; count him out yet though... Jan is tough, and he probably won;t win, but he'll be in the top 5 or so... TT tomorrow should help narrow out the field

jeff

Lance doesn't train year round. Lance takes off a couple of months at the end of the year, kicks back, drinks his beer, goes to concerts with Ms. Crow, and hangs out with his buddies. Then in January, he throws on his shoes and starts up with his base training. Lance is on a very strict, periodized program designed to peak when the Tour begins. This is the design that Chris details on the Lance Armstrong website. It hasn't deviated since Lance won his first Tour de France, and we all can see why!

In the past, Jan has taken quite a bit of time off, partied up, and started way too late into the year to be in good form. Usually, he's struggling with weight issues and being out of shape. I don't think Jan had any real, solid training program, just tried to lose the weight and race hard. That's no training program. However, this season, I saw he started training in December. He joined his teammates in January to start a very regimented training program. While I thought it was great Jan was training and focussing so early, I was equally surprised that he would begin racing so early in the season (March)! If you start peaking too early, how are you supposed to time the big peak for Tour de France in July? I know a lot of coaches want to try to peak as many times as possible, but you always want your strongest and longest peak to happen for your most important race, and starting to race in March, I don't see how he'd be able to hold onto a high fitness base until July. He'd still be in great form, but I know I mentioned back when people first started talking about Jan at the beginning of this year that he was racing too early, and I also stated that I feared he would not be able to time his strongest peak by July. Very few people can hold onto their training for that long and peak in July (actually, I don't know of any, but then again, not very many people reveal their training programs either!). I saw for myself at Tour de Suisse that he was definitely in great shape, but whoooooo... I think perhaps he just didn't time it right. But I bet his coaches will be looking really hard at his training under a microscope. A little tweaking here and there, and I'll bet he'll be back next year even stronger. Physically, this year, I think he's stronger than he was the past, but now, it's just a matter of timing.

Koffee

Looks to me like Jan is primed to get that second spot on the podium again. I hope he does, I want him to keep his streak alive. We'll see how he does on the uphill TT, but I think he'll leapfrog those in front of him through the two TT's. Although, Basso is still an X-factor in those, a Prologue may not be a good indicator if his abilities.

Lance doesn't train year round. Lance takes off a couple of months at the end of the year, kicks back, drinks his beer, goes to concerts with Ms. Crow, and hangs out with his buddies. Then in January, he throws on his shoes and starts up with his base training. Lance is on a very strict, periodized program designed to peak when the Tour begins. This is the design that Chris details on the Lance Armstrong website. It hasn't deviated since Lance won his first Tour de France, and we all can see why!

In the past, Jan has taken quite a bit of time off, partied up, and started way too late into the year to be in good form. Usually, he's struggling with weight issues and being out of shape. I don't think Jan had any real, solid training program, just tried to lose the weight and race hard. That's no training program. However, this season, I saw he started training in December. He joined his teammates in January to start a very regimented training program. While I thought it was great Jan was training and focussing so early, I was equally surprised that he would begin racing so early in the season (March)! If you start peaking too early, how are you supposed to time the big peak for Tour de France in July? I know a lot of coaches want to try to peak as many times as possible, but you always want your strongest and longest peak to happen for your most important race, and starting to race in March, I don't see how he'd be able to hold onto a high fitness base until July. He'd still be in great form, but I know I mentioned back when people first started talking about Jan at the beginning of this year that he was racing too early, and I also stated that I feared he would not be able to time his strongest peak by July. Very few people can hold onto their training for that long and peak in July (actually, I don't know of any, but then again, not very many people reveal their training programs either!). I saw for myself at Tour de Suisse that he was definitely in great shape, but whoooooo... I think perhaps he just didn't time it right. But I bet his coaches will be looking really hard at his training under a microscope. A little tweaking here and there, and I'll bet he'll be back next year even stronger. Physically, this year, I think he's stronger than he was the past, but now, it's just a matter of timing.

Koffee

Koffee,

While I agree with 99% of what you are saying here... Jan still packs on way too much weight in the offseason... I'm sure Lance does to... but maybe around 10-12 lbs. ? Jan looks like he routinely packs on 25-30... and then tries to lose it all a few couple months right before the TdF... If Jan could put down the Streudel, and gain less in the off-season, it would be much easier for him to get into race shape, and therefore be more dominant. Losing weight rapidly takes a toll on the body (as I'm sure you know, being a trainer and all)..

Jeff

Haha...I remember that photo with the podium girls, that was from the Tour of Cologne, in 2001 (I think Guerini won that one).

While I am sorry Jan is not going to win, you ihave to admire his determination. He has kept chipping away and has moved up into 4th place. He had to come back from a long way and that is even more admirable than armstrong. And his team also let him down. This tour has been really disappointing, not just because I'm rooting for Jan, but because it hasn't had many real contenders. Most of them are gone, and anyone who really could have added some real color, all gone- Cipo and Petacchi in the first week, Mayo gone, Hamilton gone, heras is invisible, Pantani is dead. Unless you are really rooting for lance, I have found it to be kind of disappointing. Last year was so much better- Jan gave lance a run for his money, there was the fall on the mountain, Tyler finishing with the broken collarbone, etc., jan winning a time trial. Much more fun to watch.

Koffee,

While I agree with 99% of what you are saying here... Jan still packs on way too much weight in the offseason... I'm sure Lance does to... but maybe around 10-12 lbs. ? Jan looks like he routinely packs on 25-30... and then tries to lose it all a few couple months right before the TdF... If Jan could put down the Streudel, and gain less in the off-season, it would be much easier for him to get into race shape, and therefore be more dominant. Losing weight rapidly takes a toll on the body (as I'm sure you know, being a trainer and all)..

Jeff

I think people mistake the Jan of today with the Jan of the past 4- 5 years. He is not the same person that he was- he is in incredible shape, and he is physically as strong as I remember seeing him in years past. Comparing Jan to Lance is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have different body types, different metabolisms, different training programs, different physiologies, etc. As someone who has a large physiology, I can tell you that when I gain 5 pounds, people think I've gained 10. It's not easy to lose either, which is just as bad. :( I think Jan does gain weight, but he's no different than any of the other guys that are racing- THIS season. He made a conscious effort to not gain all the weight by starting his training program early (in December, 2003 instead of February or March of this year). I think his problem is (as I stated before) that he peaked too early. It is just nearly impossible for someone to begin peaking that early in the year and expect to keep peaking all the way through the end of July. It's just not going to happen. A periodization program is complex, and it takes years to develop one into something that will optimally enhance your performance. Typically, you want to peak 2 or three times during your competitive season, and if you started as early as he did in March, I could see him reaching his strongest peak sometime in early to mid- June. After that, you're just overdoing it, and there's not a lot you can do- you'll still be able to perform well, but once you miss out on your strongest peak, that's it. You're not going to be as strong again until you build up to it, and that only happens when you begin your periodization program all over again, once you've had sufficient rest. It's a tricky thing to figure out, and it does take time to develop. I think if Jan's coaches are smart, they will know what to do to tweak his program, and I bet when he comes back next year, he will be a lot stronger and fitter, and he'll be able to really challenge in the mountain, where he normally dominates.

Hopefully, Jan's coaches will realize that with a good periodization program, not only will he be a force to be reckoned with, but he'll also be able to race for at least the next 3 to 4 years. With the exception of last year, Lance proved that with a solid periodization program, you just get better and better. Of course, there are other factors in there as well (wind tunnel training, lactate threshold training, clothing, bike technology, etc.), but the fitness always must come first.

Koffee

Is Jan Ullrich in the Tour this year?

According to an interview from Jan today after the race comes an interesting development. Jan had a bad case of a cold before the Pyrénées that he thought was over but wasn't yet.
It reminds me of last year Tour when Lance was struggling after starting the Tour with a bad case of diarhea and deshydratation. Lance was stronger in the last week as he felt better.
Another interesting comparision could be to Indurain last Tour try (for 6th win). He started a bit heavy expecting to loose weight in the first part of the race (before the mountains). That year was cold and rainy, like this year, and Indurain didn't loose enough before the Pyrénées and lost the race. May be Jan was expecting the same to happen to him but the bad weather prevented him to reach top condition before the mountains. Today he showed top condition but it's probably too late to scare Lance.

I like Jan Ullrich, and I feel a bit bad for him.

He won the Tour in 97 at a young age and should have won the 96 Tour but, if I am not mistaken, was on the same team as Riis and suffered from 'team orders'. He is the top European talent in a beloved European event. So, when an American wins, the European media just can't say "Lance was just a better rider" but instead conclude that Jan must be fat and lazy and that is why things worked out the way that they did. And after 5 years of this, the public seems to just accept it as fact. Hey, Jan rode a fantastic time trial on the Alpe D'Huez today but Lance rode a better one. Doesn't mean that Jan screwed up and ate too much schupfnudeln in the offseason, he just took second. Does it suck to take 2nd 5 years in a row. Probably, but he keeps showing up to try again and again. And that's not lazy. (and 161 lbs for a six-footer sure isn't fat). I am not picking a beef with anyone here, I just get tired of the media scrutiny on the guy...reporters say 'what's wrong with Jan?' I say, 'what's wrong with you?'

According to an interview from Jan today after the race comes an interesting development. Jan had a bad case of a cold before the Pyrénées that he thought was over but wasn't yet.
It reminds me of last year Tour when Lance was struggling after starting the Tour with a bad case of diarhea and deshydratation. Lance was stronger in the last week as he felt better.
Another interesting comparision could be to Indurain last Tour try (for 6th win). He started a bit heavy expecting to loose weight in the first part of the race (before the mountains). That year was cold and rainy, like this year, and Indurain didn't loose enough before the Pyrénées and lost the race. May be Jan was expecting the same to happen to him but the bad weather prevented him to reach top condition before the mountains. Today he showed top condition but it's probably too late to scare Lance.

That's the thing, though. Jan is NOT overweight. Jan has NO FAT on his body. I saw him up close and not more than 5 feet away from me at one point. Jan is in the best shape physically that I've ever known him to be in. Check out the thread in the Women's Cycling forum about fit guys. I posted a picture of Jan in there- I had to severely compress it, since the file was too big to fit on the forums, but it is clear that he is all muscle. I didn't see an ounce of fat on him- abs were rippling, legs were muscle from the groin to his ankles, built upper body, and muscular arms. I thought at the time when I saw him that if he didn't win the Tour, it would only be because he just wasn't good enough. Tour de Suisse was like, what... mid-June? Assuming he didn't lose his physical conditioning, there has to be another reason why he didn't perform as well as expected. I can't believe a cold stopped him... cold (pun intended!). :D ;)

Koffee

I like Jan Ullrich, and I feel a bit bad for him.

He won the Tour in 97 at a young age and should have won the 96 Tour but, if I am not mistaken, was on the same team as Riis and suffered from 'team orders'. He is the top European talent in a beloved European event. So, when an American wins, the European media just can't say "Lance was just a better rider" but instead conclude that Jan must be fat and lazy and that is why things worked out the way that they did. And after 5 years of this, the public seems to just accept it as fact. Hey, Jan rode a fantastic time trial on the Alpe D'Huez today but Lance rode a better one. Doesn't mean that Jan screwed up and ate too much schupfnudeln in the offseason, he just took second. Does it suck to take 2nd 5 years in a row. Probably, but he keeps showing up to try again and again. And that's not lazy. (and 161 lbs for a six-footer sure isn't fat). I am not picking a beef with anyone here, I just get tired of the media scrutiny on the guy...reporters say 'what's wrong with Jan?' I say, 'what's wrong with you?'

I certainly feel you. I know this is so new for me, but after going to the races in Europe, I just feel like I have a new perspective with the cyclists. And it's so cool to see them up and personal, it really makes you want to root for them all the more. I do not think Jan is anything like fat and lazy. It's unfortunate that he's so tall and such a muscular man, because they don't see the guy as muscular, they see him as fat! As someone in a similar situation (but with more fat, of course! ;) ), I can see how people see him as fat. But when you see the guy up close and personal, when he is in such good form, you think he is anything but. I would give anything to see Jan do a nude photo shoot for two reasons 1) because then everyone can see just how muscular he truly is, and 2) I'm just a dirty old lady looking for a cheap thrill. ;) I think he's a great competitor, and after talking to a lot of people in Europe about him, I am truly sold that he is a great athlete. Jan comes back almost every year (knee injury kept him out one year), and although he may start the season a bit heavier than he should be, that's no big deal, as long as he can race the major races and get the weight down, which he did.

Koffee

I like Jan Ullrich, and I feel a bit bad for him.

He won the Tour in 97 at a young age and should have won the 96 Tour but, if I am not mistaken, was on the same team as Riis and suffered from 'team orders'. He is the top European talent in a beloved European event. So, when an American wins, the European media just can't say "Lance was just a better rider" but instead conclude that Jan must be fat and lazy and that is why things worked out the way that they did. And after 5 years of this, the public seems to just accept it as fact. Hey, Jan rode a fantastic time trial on the Alpe D'Huez today but Lance rode a better one. Doesn't mean that Jan screwed up and ate too much schupfnudeln in the offseason, he just took second. Does it suck to take 2nd 5 years in a row. Probably, but he keeps showing up to try again and again. And that's not lazy. (and 161 lbs for a six-footer sure isn't fat). I am not picking a beef with anyone here, I just get tired of the media scrutiny on the guy...reporters say 'what's wrong with Jan?' I say, 'what's wrong with you?'
07-22-04 01:04 AM


Its annoying I agree but they are just doing their job. You need to take into account the market this media outlets are directing themselves to. I read daily some Spanish newspaper and the scrutiny is focused specially on Mayo but also any other spanish cyclist. Yesterday they nearly hanged Sastre for the strategy CSC implemented by helping the USPS pull and catch Ullrich- although he was just following orders.

In Germany people want to read why Ullrich failed to win not why Armstrong won - they will come up with all possible theories why he failed. but hey.. its not that different from the NY media when the Yankees lost the world series.

On the other hand.. I read some online versions today of spanish and german sport newspaper/magazine websites and they all hailed how Armstrong put on a show today and how he has all but secured the tour.. praise where its due! but then again.. the focus shifted to the cyclists of their own respective countries.

Its annoying I agree but they are just doing their job. You need to take into account the market this media outlets are directing themselves to. I read daily some Spanish newspaper and the scrutiny is focused specially on Mayo but also any other spanish cyclist. Yesterday they nearly hanged Sastre for the strategy CSC implemented by helping the USPS pull and catch Ullrich- although he was just following orders.

In Germany people want to read why Ullrich failed to win not why Armstrong won - they will come up with all possible theories why he failed. but hey.. its not that different from the NY media when the Yankees lost the world series.

On the other hand.. I read some online versions today of spanish and german sport newspaper/magazine websites and they all hailed how Armstrong put on a show today and how he has all but secured the tour.. praise where its due! but then again.. the focus shifted to the cyclists of their own respective countries.

Good points. Perhaps it was Ullrich's fault for winning so convincingly in '97 when he was so young; set some pretty high expectations. But don't worry, the [French] media has figured out why.....turns out the most tested cyclist on the planet is doping! Now that that is solved, we should send these guys to Iraq to find all of those WMD's that Saddam hid. I know that they have a job to do, but is that job as a reporter to report or to speculate? Alas, that is a rhetorical question. Just don't tell me Ullrich isn't trying...

OH MY GOD Smoothie! That picure is hilarious!:D