Cyclocross - Cross Tires for Dummies

I demonstrated my total ignorance of tire tread recently on a thread in the racing sub-forum. I'm guessing I'm not alone on this, particularly among beginning cross racers.

It seemed like it would be a good idea to start a thread that explained several aspects of tire tread in a simple, newbie-friendly way. Every web page I've found seems to assume at least that you can tell the difference between a file tread and a tractor tread or whatever else, which for me hasn't been a good assumption.

I thought maybe if I kicked something off and people who know what they're talking about added some input, this could morph into a good sticky thread.

To that end, I thought I'd begin by throwing up some pictures of various tires and ask what you can tell me about it based on the tread pattern. Like, what would you call this tread pattern? What conditions would it be best for? What are its weaknesses? What makes it different/similar to the other tires? Tell me things like that.

By the way, I'm borrowing all these images from Bike Tires Direct (http://www.biketiresdirect.com) on the good faith that they'd be OK with that as long as I gave them a plug. Go buy some tires from them so they don't get mad at me. ;)

http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/scrra1-1.jpg
Schwalbe Racing Ralph
Type: All around


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/sccxl-1.jpg
Schwalbe CX Pro Light
Type: All around


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/kekro-1.jpg
Kenda Kross Supreme
Type: All around


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/mimmd1-1.jpg
Michelin Mud2
Type: Mud


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/mimjt-1.jpg
Michelin Jet
Type: File

http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/coskc-1.jpg
Continental Speed King Cross
Type: All around


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/mbmio-1.jpg
Maxxis MiMo CX
Type: All around


http://static2.biketiresdirect.com/imagesProduct/gfmzc3-1.jpg
Geax Mezcal
Type: File


Feel free to comment on just one tire, or a few. Please don't "quote" the pictures.

If I'm missing some important tire type, let me know.

You're missing grifo and fango.

If you can only have one set of tires, go for grifos. Good for everything.

If this thread is for dummies, it's worth saying that the UCI forbids the use of tyres wider than 35mm... The Marathon Extreme - sibling to the Marathon Supreme and the Ultremo racing tyre, but with added durability and off road grip - comes in 35mm: http://www.schwalbetires.com/files/l_img_marathon_extreme.gif Marathon claim that this is a very fast roller - just a notch behind the Supreme and Marathon Racer. It's meant for adventure touring.

http://www.velonews.com/article/85785

every tire listed will fit in one of these categories

what do I want for chicago? clinchers and price is a factor

http://www.velonews.com/article/85785

every tire listed will fit in one of these categories

Thanks. Great link. That will be a good start. I'll try to see if I can categorize the tires above to see what I learned.

That link gives specific evaluations of each specific tire it reviews. What I'd like to accomplish with this thread is to provide something so that anyone who reads it can look at any tire and figure out, based on tread, what type of tread it is and what it will be good (and bad) for. Ideally, they'd also be able to look at two tires in the same category and guess what their relative strengths and weaknesses will be.

Edit: looking closer, I'm not sure I can tell from that link what differentiates mud tires from all-arounders.

i was say mich muds are a better option than the grifo for a all around clincher tire.

then i would go with the racing ralph followed by the grifo.

then perhaps hutch bulldogs.

other than that wake me when you are ready for tubulars

Alright, I took some guesses at the types for each of these. How did I do?

File tread, I think I understand. It's basically flat with just enough texture to grab a rough surface, so it will be fast on flat, hard surfaces but provide some traction.

All around? Looks basically like a skinny mountain bike tire. I know mountain bikers would add some further descriptors within this type. I'm wondering about things like tread shape, height and spacing. What effect do they have?

Mud? Putting the Mud2 in this category was a gimme. From what I've been able to tell, the key here is having blocks far enough apart that they don't collect mud. It seems like skinnier is better. Is short tread also good? Basically, I'm not sure what moves something from "all-around" to "mud" but the distinction seems to be important. My races will all be mudders within a month, so I really want to understand this.

other than that wake me when you are ready for tubulars

I've been surprised to see that a lot of the articles that try to address this topic start with a long discussion about whether you should choose clinchers or tubulars and then it always boils it down to, "you should choose tubulars" without qualification or exception.

I completely believe that, but since I'm trying to make this a discussion for newbs like myself, I'm not sure it's worth even bringing tubulars into the picture other than to mention that as the ultimate destination.

Personally, I'm at an ability level where it's hard to justify replacing the stock tires that came with my bike, never mind sinking $300+ into a wheelset and another $200 into tires. But I do want to understand my choices so when I replace the stock tires I won't just get tires because they look cool.

what do I want for chicago? clinchers and price is a factor

Michelin Mud2's

You'll run into relatively little mud, and they'll work great. If you're doing the chicago cyclocross cup, one set will last you a couple seasons.

Alright, I took some guesses at the types for each of these. How did I do?

File tread, I think I understand. It's basically flat with just enough texture to grab a rough surface, so it will be fast on flat, hard surfaces but provide some traction.

All around? Looks basically like a skinny mountain bike tire. I know mountain bikers would add some further descriptors within this type. I'm wondering about things like tread shape, height and spacing. What effect do they have?

Mud? Putting the Mud2 in this category was a gimme. From what I've been able to tell, the key here is having blocks far enough apart that they don't collect mud. It seems like skinnier is better. Is short tread also good? Basically, I'm not sure what moves something from "all-around" to "mud" but the distinction seems to be important. My races will all be mudders within a month, so I really want to understand this.

That sounds about right, but I am not necessarily a mud expert as I havent ridden bikes off road in a muddy environment for 10+ years. The tire you choose for your mud really depends on the mud you have though, but in general the ability to clear mud and the ability to get at stiffer soil, usually meaning a smaller tire, are what you want.

you would have a hard time going wrong with mich muds, but if you have a chance just chat up someone like Erik Tonkin on the subject.

What would help most on off camber turns in wet grass and mud typical of PacNW?
I've currently got WTB Cross Wolf tires thinking the side knobs would help. What do you guys think?
Also, Is there a noticeable performance difference between 700x32 and 700x35?

Someone I've talked to recommended challenge grifo's in a 32 for every condition.

If they're good enough for him, I'm pretty sure they're good enough for anyone...

35 will be grippier than 32, but will be slower on the flatter stuff and road-ish stuff. 32 should be more than enough for most courses.

What would help most on off camber turns in wet grass and mud typical of PacNW?
I've currently got WTB Cross Wolf tires thinking the side knobs would help. What do you guys think?
Also, Is there a noticeable performance difference between 700x32 and 700x35?

mich mud2s

You're missing grifo and fango.

If you can only have one set of tires, go for grifos. Good for everything.

Grifo:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21LpnXwUqeL._SL500_AA230_.jpg

you would have a hard time going wrong with mich muds, but if you have a chance just chat up someone like Erik Tonkin on the subject.

Dang it! I was talking to Erik just last night (he coaches the cross clinic I went to), and this wasn't among the many things I asked him. Oh well, I've been meaning to make a trip to Sellwood anyway. I guess I'll go buy some tires from him when I go.

Michelin Mud2's

You'll run into relatively little mud, and they'll work great. If you're doing the chicago cyclocross cup, one set will last you a couple seasons.

+1 - I went all out this year trying to get my tubulars glued up and the wheels built up, etc...and in the meantime I have put a ton of time back into my Mud2 and old mavic/Shimy wheelset. Crazy. They just keep delivering.

I put 1 season of training and racing on 1 set and the front still looks great but I need a new one for the rear. It's ok, but gets sloppy in looser stuff.

I am using some Vittoria Cross EVO XG tubulars that I have as a "training" set that I finally got glued up last night and I picked up a set of Griffos (in a 30 - because that's all I could get) for my "race" wheels that I have yet to build...which is funny because the races start this week... Suck.

I am just using this thread to call attention to my new signature, as you cant use tubbies with tubes in the SW

i have rithey speed maxes. pretty smooth center, and plenty big knobs on the side for cornering confidence. also seemed to help me with off camber turns too. Mine are 35s ran mine at 40 btw

i have rithey speed maxes. pretty smooth center, and plenty big knobs on the side for cornering confidence. also seemed to help me with off camber turns too. Mine are 35s ran mine at 40 btw

I like these tires a lot. Mostly I race them in early season point-to-point races through the countryside (gravel/dirt roads, singletrack, the remains of last year's corn crop, etc.).

Someone I've talked to recommended challenge grifo's in a 32 for every condition.

If they're good enough for him, I'm pretty sure they're good enough for anyone...

35 will be grippier than 32, but will be slower on the flatter stuff and road-ish stuff. 32 should be more than enough for most courses.

Wider tyres will be faster on the flatter and road-ish stuff if it's bumpy. I hear that the main issue is that sometimes the tread is a little narrow because they use the 32c tread on the wider casing. That said, I would choose wider tyres in most circumstances.

Don't forget the Vredestein Premiato.

What do you think of the Specialized Houffalize CX Pro (32mm)?

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/equip/0006-4042_l.jpg

They carry these at my LBS (and I think they'll still give me team discount if I ask nicely :))

At first glance that looked like it had an inverted tread, but I suppose that's just the picture background on the bottom left.

The tread looks similar to my Maxxis Locust CX, which quickly become slicks in heavy mud, but drop it again once I get in some grass.

I have one of the Specialized tires. I really like it. I find that the traction is almost on par with my tubulars. Are you shopping at Mikes? What team are you on?

No, I saw them in person at the LBS and they are knobbies, but have a center section that look like they'd be better for grass and packed dirt than the Michelin Mud 2. It's figuring to be a long hot fall here in NorCal, so I think it's going to be mostly gravel and hardpan, at least until December.

I have one of the Specialized tires. I really like it. I find that the traction is almost on par with my tubulars. Are you shopping at Mikes? What team are you on?

No, CBW. I was on Team City until the end of last year (now River City Racing) and more often than not they still give me a team discount.

What do you think of the Specialized Houffalize CX Pro (32mm)?

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/equip/0006-4042_l.jpg

They carry these at my LBS (and I think they'll still give me team discount if I ask nicely :))

I wouldnt ride those in mud, but they are look like a fine tread for sand

What are the thoughts on running a Mich. MUD on the back and a Mich. JET on the front?

I would swap them. You need more grip on the front for cornering.

Thanks for posting the thread. I know, the serious dudes tell us to wake them when we get tubulars. Well, some of us newbies want to make the best of our clinchers until we find out if it makes any sense for us to dump $750-1000 a set on tubluar rims and tires. We are the great unwashed masses who have not yet seen the light. We *like* the light, think it's pretty and all, but haven't crossed the event horizon.

So, about them clinchers... I have a set of the MAxxis Locusts that look like the knobs are too closely spaced for mud, but seem to have a decent enough rolling resistance for road and fast hardpack. How do they hold in grass?

Kenda Kross Supreme - they look like scaled-down mtb tires. Knobs look pretty tall compared to other "serious" 'cross tires, but still plenty of space between knobs, almost like sand tires. Good choice for loose conditions? Not good choice for much of anything?

And so on...

Around here we get a lot of wet cut grass that turns to torn up cut grass/mud over the race.... any suggestions on tires for that kind of terrain? I'm considering some IRD CrossFires.

I went to the LBS to get the Specialized Houffalize that I posted above. They were out, so I went with another Specialized tire, The Captain CX:

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/equip/0010-4075_l.jpg

34mm. Seems like a good all-arounder. They're rated to 100psi, I put in about 85 for Sunday's race. After going around the course once, I let out a little. I probably should have let out a little more, maybe run about 65psi.

Around here we get a lot of wet cut grass that turns to torn up cut grass/mud over the race.... any suggestions on tires for that kind of terrain? I'm considering some IRD CrossFires.

I would try a more file tread tire with good side knobs. Maybe a Ritchey speed max

So, I'm in Bike Tires direct, looking at both the Michelin Mud 2s and the Continental Speed Kings. The Mud 2s seem to not have side knobs as the Speed Kings do. The Speed Kings were recommended by a friend and bike shop owner. Are the side knobs important? I have to say, I like the looks of the Mud 2s.

Great thread! It's amazing just how huge a difference a good tread design vs. not-so-good tread design makes, especially when you're really givein' 'er. Of these, who makes a 26inch version? I have the 26inch version of the Schwable CX Pros, I bought them for winter and as of yet haven't had any snow yet. I'm in the midst of MTB - MONSTER CROSS conversion, and being an old fart (43), if I do decide to race I believe I'm allowed to use a MTB.

So, I'm in Bike Tires direct, looking at both the Michelin Mud 2s and the Continental Speed Kings. The Mud 2s seem to not have side knobs as the Speed Kings do. The Speed Kings were recommended by a friend and bike shop owner. Are the side knobs important? I have to say, I like the looks of the Mud 2s.

I'm still trying to understand this whole tread thing myself, but from what I've been able to grasp so far, I think the side tread is meant to provide grab while cornering. The trade-off, I think, is that it will also provide grab while going straight in mud, which you don't want. That is, it won't slice through the mud as well.

I ended up buying the Mud2's and I couldn't be happier. They shed mud so much better than my old Locust CX's. The last few races around here were just absurdly muddy.

I'm thinking I need to get something with a file tread for the early races next year, before the rain starts. The Continental Cyclocross Speed (not Speed King) look good for that. I love the look of the Michelin Jets, but in that case the lack of side knobs concerns me. The tread looks good on the Michelin Transworld Sprints. The weight is a bit much, but they're cheap. Anyone have opinions on any of these?