Bicycle Mechanics - Don't clean new chain

I've tried it both ways, installing a new chain as it comes out of the package, and first cleaning a new chain and lubing it with my favorite lube. Here are the results of installing a new cheapo KMC 1/8" chain on my commuter. The bike has a Shimano Nexus Premium IGH, 21t cog, and 44t Sugino Messenger ring. This chain has 518 miles on it. Never been cleaned, never been lubed. I lube my chains once I heard the lightest hint of squeeking.
I'm convinced the factory applied thicker, sticky lube results in the best condition your chain will ever see. Ride it till it squeaks, then you're on your own to choose your personal lube.

If a chain squeaks, it needed lube long before that time. With 10 or 11 cogs and double chainrings, I don't want that greasy crap oozing out of my chain for the first several hundred miles. I didn't clean my last 11 speed chain befor installing it and regretted that decision. The grease attracts lots of dirt.

If a chain squeaks, it needed lube long before that time. With 10 or 11 cogs and double chainrings, I don't want that greasy crap oozing out of my chain for the first several hundred miles. I didn't clean my last 11 speed chain befor installing it and regretted that decision. The grease attracts lots of dirt.

+1, I definitely disagree with Sheldon on this one. Factory lube is out before it even goes on the bike.

Then, lube with Boeshield, and my chain is dead silent, and amazingly clean.

+1, I definitely disagree with Sheldon on this one. Factory lube is out before it even goes on the bike.

Then, lube with Boeshield, and my chain is dead silent, and amazingly clean.

John, do you have any problem with the Boeshield being real sticky? I tried some a while back but I probably didn't wipe off the chain soon enough after I lubed with it.
Thanks,
Steve

I've never had problems leaving the factory-lube in place. Or had problems with Boeshield T-9 attracting excessive dirt. Works for me.

John, do you have any problem with the Boeshield being real sticky? I tried some a while back but I probably didn't wipe off the chain soon enough after I lubed with it.
Thanks,
Steve

Only if I use more than one drop per link, or apply to frequently. I average about 200 miles in between 1-drop per roller application.

As long as I stick to my rule, I'm golden. I do however, completely degrease (removal and soak) once every 500 miles or so (2 weeks generally).

Other than that, I used tri-flow before, and likely it very much, just attracted more dirt than I liked.

Well, my pictures don't lie. Does it look like the factory lube has attracted less dirt on this chain than repeated coatings with aftermarket lube would have. Any factory lube that oozes out is excess. It seems like in my case if it did indeed ooze out, it disappeared along with any dirt it may have attracted. The absence of any squeaking indicates to me that there is still lube on the inside, where it's needed.

"If a chain squeaks, it needed lube long before that time."
If this is true, then you should be able to say just how long before that time.
Squeaking is a metal on metal sound. If it doesn't squeak, then there's lube between the metal. Otherwise, there's some mysterious point of constant metal on metal contact where squeaking suddenly rears its head. I've never cleaned a chain, installed it without lube, and had it NOT squeak. The squeaking disappears as soon as lube is applied.

When I do lube a chain, it's only after cleaning the chain. And then I use Dumonde Tech. Any lube that's applied will find it's way to the inside of the chain. After being ridden, centrifugal force will force excess lube to the outside. I wipe the chain down after each of the first three or four rides to clean off the excess which is only attracting and holding dirt. After that, I find the dirt no longer accumulates, and I relube again only when I hear the first hints of squeaking. I've never broken a chain.
I'm open to the possibility that this method only works for me, and this post is only a testimonial applicable to that one individual. :)

What constitutes optimal chain lubrication depends on (at least) local humidity and soil composition, your riding frequency and style, and whether you ride in the rain. Everyone has an opinion what's best, undoubtedly derived from their own perfectly valid experience, and almost certainly in direct conflict with various other peoples perfectly valid experience.

There is no single best system, but it's not rocket science:

Take a look at your chain frequently. If it is covered in sticky, gritty gunk a lot, try a different lube strategy involving less lube or less sticky lube. If it is dry and not moving freely enough, try using more or stickier lube. Once you find a system that works well for you, stick with it. Optionally, go on the internet and tell people that what works for them is wrong :)

There is no single best system, but it's not rocket science

I agree.

Waiting until imperfect human hearing can detect a chain squeak is like visiting a doctor when you're sick. Putting more lube on before you hear a squeak is like visiting the doctor for regular checkups, even when you're healthy. Neither way is right or wrong. One approach is just more cautious than the other.

Thinking about the simile that I just used shows me that I take better care of my bike than my body.

Well this thread hasn't been done before.

Only if I use more than one drop per link, or apply to frequently. I average about 200 miles in between 1-drop per roller application.

As long as I stick to my rule, I'm golden. I do however, completely degrease (removal and soak) once every 500 miles or so (2 weeks generally).

Other than that, I used tri-flow before, and likely it very much, just attracted more dirt than I liked.

Thanks John. I'll give that a shot next time.

I believe Sheldon.

I've tried it both ways, installing a new chain as it comes out of the package, and first cleaning a new chain and lubing it with my favorite lube. Here are the results of installing a new cheapo KMC 1/8" chain on my commuter. The bike has a Shimano Nexus Premium IGH, 21t cog, and 44t Sugino Messenger ring. This chain has 518 miles on it. Never been cleaned, never been lubed. I lube my chains once I heard the lightest hint of squeeking.
I'm convinced the factory applied thicker, sticky lube results in the best condition your chain will ever see. Ride it till it squeaks, then you're on your own to choose your personal lube.

+1
Sheldon Brown was right on this. No lube can match what is applied as the chain is assembled. Even the best lube flushes debris down into the rollers. Having the lube pre-applied forces the debris away from the contact points as the chain moves.

I never remove it either. When it starts drying out, then I apply, on top of the original grease, one drop per link of Boeshield T-9. I've never had any reason to change this practice. My chains all work superbly (I use SRAM on all my bicycles), and they last a good, long time.

In fact, I just purchased a SRAM/Sachs/Sedis PC-7X on my 3-spd PUCH. Smooth as anything I've had. I wonder how long this one will last...

Being a cheapskate, the most attractive chain lube advice I read on bikeforums is to use ATF. So I'm using it, and it's working great for me. My bike is incredibly quiet.

it is just so sticky! do you wipe down the outside at least?

it is just so sticky! do you wipe down the outside at least?
Nope. It doesn't stay sticky for long. I'm not sure why. Here are a couple possibilities.
Whatever moisture causes the stickiness evaporates. I ride in Arizona, a very dry and dusty environment. If I rode in Seattle, maybe my experience would be different.
Dust, dirt, etc. does indeed stick, and as it dries, it simply falls away.
I do clean off the chain rings, cogs, and derailleur pulleys. I get some accumulation of crud here after the first few rides, but after cleaning it up, it no longer accumulates. I get much more accumulation when the chain is lubed with either wax-based lube, petroleum-based lube, or Dumonde Tech-a polymer-based lube.

The gunk on new chains seem to collect dirt faster than most any kind of lub you can buy. I didnt clean it off, and just lubed it when it seemed to need it. When it got too dirty I completely cleaned it with kerosene. I now use Mobil 1 oil applied with oiler on each link. I try to wipe and keep it as clean as possible. I have 3000 miles on my Rans Stratus, and the park CC3 indicated less than the .75 wear point.

One point I might add is that since the Stratus has a chain approx 3 times the length of a DF bike the wear is spread out.

Using factory rust protection for lube is a cheapskate strategy. It certainly works and saves a couple of nickels. But no finesse. I just installed tow new SRAM 991 chains on the recumbent. Soaked them for half an hour in auto parts cleaner, and then cleaned all that out with carb cleaner. Sun dry for half an hour and install. Lube with Pro Link. Deliciously smooth and quiet. I love it. bk

Agree with the OP. I sheepishly admitted to the mechanic at my local shop that I was running the factory lube and he said good idea.

Using factory rust protection for lube is a cheapskate strategy. It certainly works and saves a couple of nickels. But no finesse. I just installed tow new SRAM 991 chains on the recumbent. Soaked them for half an hour in auto parts cleaner, and then cleaned all that out with carb cleaner. Sun dry for half an hour and install. Lube with Pro Link. Deliciously smooth and quiet. I love it. bk


You can keep your toxic solvents. I would never purchase those products. No finesse.

Well, citrus degreasers certainly won't get that stuff off. bk

I always clean that thick crap off a new chain before using it. Always.

Well, citrus degreasers certainly won't get that stuff off. bk

Yes, easily. Use in a well ventilated area. The hot tip is to leave that stuff on, but you don't get it.

Using factory rust protection for lube is a cheapskate strategy. It certainly works and saves a couple of nickels. But no finesse. I just installed tow new SRAM 991 chains on the recumbent. Soaked them for half an hour in auto parts cleaner, and then cleaned all that out with carb cleaner. Sun dry for half an hour and install. Lube with Pro Link. Deliciously smooth and quiet. I love it. bk

Extremely unecessary. Not to mention soaking chains in solvents like that will weaken them.

I have a SRAM 991 chain that's next in line for my hybrid. Currently it's running a perfectly respectable 970. But if they had been soaked in hard solvents like that, I wouldn't accept them. I want that factory-lube that got into every available micron of space. And just add T-9 paraffin-based lube as needed. One drop - one link.

Whatever yanks your crank!

If a chain squeaks, it needed lube long before that time. With 10 or 11 cogs and double chainrings, I don't want that greasy crap oozing out of my chain for the first several hundred miles. I didn't clean my last 11 speed chain befor installing it and regretted that decision. The grease attracts lots of dirt.
The dirt on the outside of the chain is not a wear factor. The black crud you see is the metal wearings from the inside of the chain. Take a rag with a little mineral spirits on it and wipe the excess off.
Grease is the best lube your chain will ever see.

What I do get is how well an ultra clean and lightly lubed chain works. Think watchmaker. The sticky has got to go. bk

The dirt on the outside of the chain is not a wear factor. The black crud you see is the metal wearings from the inside of the chain. Take a rag with a little mineral spirits on it and wipe the excess off.
Grease is the best lube your chain will ever see.

The dirt on the outside is not a problem unless you wash it into the inside at some point. That original grease is only good for a few hundred miles at best; then you have to decide what to do to get the dirt off and not wash it into the chain. I wipe my chains with a paper shop towel after every ride.

I get 4-6,000 miles from a 10 speed chain. A few hundred miles with or without the original chain lube make no difference whatsoever in the total chain life. I have left it on and removed it. I just put a new 11 speed chain on one of my bikes yesterday and opted to wipe the exterior thoroughly with a rag dampened with mineral spirits to remove the goo from the exterior, but I still applied my homebrew to be sure that the chain is lubed. I'll be wiping grease off after every ride for the next 2-300 miles until it's gone.

I follow a similar practice as the OP described back in post #1. I leave the factory original chain oil on my chains, following Sheldon's general recommendation on this topic.

I use KMC X8 chains, a relatively cheap ($14) but decent chain for my two road bikes with 7 speed derailleur geared drivetrains and one bike with Shimano Nexus internal gear 8 speed hub.

The OP is referring to using a chain with the factory original oil on a Nexus IGH hub, which are are not as fussy about chain lube as a 9-10 speed derailleur geared bike. My bike with IGH hub has stainless steel front cog and rear cog, and it can tolerate a sticky "original lube" chain without flinching. There's no gears to jump around to and no pulley wheels to collect gunk. I can also get by using a factory original oil chain on my 7 speed derailleur geared bikes, because they are not as picky about shifting as 9-10 speed derailleur drivetrains. My primary commute bike has a full length front fender with long mudguard that blocks about 90 percent of the junk thrown towards the front chainring by the front tire, so that's yet another reason I get by leaving the factory original chain oil on.

After putting about 300-400 miles on the chain with factory original lube, it's time for a good cleaning. I pour some purple citrus degreaser from WallyMart into a plastic shaker bottle and soak the chain for 20-30 minutes. After rinsing with hot water a few times, wiping off chain with a clean rag and giving the chain a sunbath to dry off, it's ready for lube. I use one drop of Pedro's road rage lube per link, which lasts about 400 miles till the next cleaning. My internal gear hub bike goes about 500 miles between cleanings, just because a perfectly clean chain doesn't matter much with that bike.

sorry I dont buy the use the original grease theory. The stuff that conmes on a chain is basicly cosmoline. it is a rust preventative grease and has very little lubrication properties.

How have you determined that it provides little lubrication? And how much do you feel is necessary? My understanding is that a microscopic film is what does the trick, and the rest is just to keep the important quantity there. I could well be wrong, though.

You can keep your toxic solvents. I would never purchase those products. No finesse.

While bkaapcke's method is a little excessive...you could stop at the auto parts cleaner, bkaapcke;)...the solvents he is using aren't particularly toxic. Flammable, yes but not toxic. You have much more 'toxic' materials around the house. Have a car? 20 gallons of extremely toxic solvents right there. Have a little wine or distilled spirits at home? Toxic. Finger nail polish remover? Slightly toxic. A bit of wasp or bug spray? Highly toxic. Use natural gas? Toxic. Use water? Toxic...both as an inhalation and ingestion hazard (https://www.google.com/health/ref/Hyponatremia).

Brake cleaner is more toxic than the parts cleaner. The brake cleaner contains halogenated hydrocarbons which should be avoided if possible. The parts cleaner, however, is just odorless mineral spirits. Pretty much passes through you like mineral oil will. No harm, no foul;)

It wouldnt make any sense for the manufacturer to use a lubrative quality rust preventative. too expensive. the stuff that is on there for shipping is junk used to keep the air and moisture off the surface to prevent rust. compare it to the stuff that comes on a new brake rotor for a car, exactly the same. You wouldnt put a lubricant here would you?
Let me also point out that. the reason we do all this is to save other components. more expensive components. I look at it this way. I lubricate my chain for a few reasons. to keep it quiet. To keep it from rusting. and a lubricated chain shifts better. I dont really think that lubing a chain will make it last all that much longer. maybe a little.
I find it hard to go out and spend all that money on lube and time spent cleaning and lubing something that is supposed to wear out anyway. why not save the money and use it to buy a new chain?

John, do you have any problem with the Boeshield being real sticky? I tried some a while back but I probably didn't wipe off the chain soon enough after I lubed with it.
Thanks,
Steve

Instructions clearly state to let it dry 2 hours before wiping chain. I have used Boeshield for years and never had a sticky chain problem.

I typically get 8,000 + miles on a chain on my recumbent. I do not clean the new chain, just wipe it down, lube it with Boeshield, wait a couple of hours and wipe it with a rag. Re lube every 400 miles or so. I used to wash grease off new chain, and they never lasted as long.

Extremely unecessary. Not to mention soaking chains in solvents like that will weaken them.

Huh?!:wtf: :roflmao2: On what planet?:roflmao2::roflmao2: Steel and iron parts are uneffected by those kinds of organic solvents. The steel and iron parts will stand up to the brake cleaner better than they will to the parts cleaner solvent (a.k.a. mineral spirits, naphtha, paint thinner). And even the parts cleaner would do only superficial damage after a very long period of exposure...months to decades.

Weaken the parts:roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:

What do you think they use an auto parts cleaner for?:roflmao2::roflmao2:

While bkaapcke's method is a little excessive...you could stop at the auto parts cleaner, bkaapcke;)...the solvents he is using aren't particularly toxic. Flammable, yes but not toxic. You have much more 'toxic' materials around the house. Have a car? 20 gallons of extremely toxic solvents right there. Have a little wine or distilled spirits at home? Toxic. Finger nail polish remover? Slightly toxic. A bit of wasp or bug spray? Highly toxic. Use natural gas? Toxic. Use water? Toxic...both as an inhalation and ingestion hazard (https://www.google.com/health/ref/Hyponatremia).

Brake cleaner is more toxic than the parts cleaner. The brake cleaner contains halogenated hydrocarbons which should be avoided if possible. The parts cleaner, however, is just odorless mineral spirits. Pretty much passes through you like mineral oil will. No harm, no foul;)

Wine and water more toxic than auto parts cleaner! Who knew? Because I use water regularly and wine occasionally, I guess I should use auto parts cleaner too. In for a dime, in for a dollar, is that the thinking?

Wine and water more toxic than auto parts cleaner! Who knew? Because I use water regularly and wine occasionally, I guess I should use auto parts cleaner too. In for a dime, in for a dollar, is that the thinking?

Yes. In high enough concentrations wine, or more specifically ethanol, and water can...and do...lead to death due to their toxicity. LD50 on ethanol is 9000 mg/kg. LD50 for mineral spirits is 5000 mg/kg. Not really all that different. 3 g/kg isn't that big a difference.

And the long term effects of ethanol usage are probably worse than mineral spirits because most people aren't likely to ingest the amount of mineral spirits necessary to cause long term effects as they are for ethanol. Every heard of mineral-spiritsism?:rolleyes:

My point, since you obviously fail to see it, is that toxicity is a matter of exposure...not just because of a scary name or a lack of understanding.

It wouldnt make any sense for the manufacturer to use a lubrative quality rust preventative. too expensive. the stuff that is on there for shipping is junk used to keep the air and moisture off the surface to prevent rust. compare it to the stuff that comes on a new brake rotor for a car, exactly the same.

People who appear to know what they are talking about say you are wrong. SRAM reportedly uses GLEITMO 582. Googling this tells me it is definitely a lubricant, and it's definitely not a question of skimping on price, as it is fairly expensive. Do you have any specific information as to what any specific manufacturer uses, or are you just guessing?

Personally, I've had excellent results leaving the factory lube alone as long as possible. I would confidently recommend others do the same if their riding environment and habits are exactly like mine, which they probably aren't.

I had always removed the factory lube from a new chain, but after a little research I left it on my last new SRAM 991.

It worked very well and lasted about 400 miles before I felt the need to re-lube.

I wiped it down with a rag moistened with mineral spirits after every ride; I do that no matter what lube I use. The original lube picked up a lot less grit and dirt than I expected it to, given its sticky feel.

I think it makes sense for the manufacturer to use a quality product on new chains. It would be only a tiny percentage of the cost of manufacturing the chain, and it would tend to promote a reasonable lifespan for a product that is too often horribly neglected.

no, no one has come to me and said its junk. I have no inside knowledge of anything . just my own observations and judgement. I have found the stuff on my chains to be very similar to the gunk I used to clean off of new brake rotors for cars, right down to the smell. you decide, run the mystery stuff the chain came with or something you know is good because you put it on yourself.

People who appear to know what they are talking about say you are wrong. SRAM reportedly uses GLEITMO 582. Googling this tells me it is definitely a lubricant, and it's definitely not a question of skimping on price, as it is fairly expensive. Do you have any specific information as to what any specific manufacturer uses, or are you just guessing?

Personally, I've had excellent results leaving the factory lube alone as long as possible. I would confidently recommend others do the same if their riding environment and habits are exactly like mine, which they probably aren't.


you dont find it strang that an american company uses a german lube on their chains? just sayin.

you dont find it strang that an american company uses a german lube on their chains? just sayin.

Why would it be strange? They sell chains and other components worldwide.

I'll bet the monitor you're looking at wasn't made in the USA, either. Global economy...

SRAM does use GLIETMO Lube on their 8 and 9 speed chains. They seem to think it's more than a rust inhibitor, as it's touted as a feature of the chain.

From SRAM's site:
"A coating of GLEITMO™, the finest chain lubricant in the industry, provides superior combination of friction protection and dirt fighters."
http://www.sram.com/en/srammountain/chains/8speed/index.php

I think you should do whatever you want to a chain. Personally, I think that the factory lube works just fine, at least for a little while.

well there you have it ,proof!
ok can we buy this Gleitmo over the counter? will it work on shimano chains? anyone have any experience using it on a clean chain ?

well there you have it ,proof!
ok can we buy this Gleitmo over the counter? will it work on shimano chains? anyone have any experience using it on a clean chain ?

The little research I did online indicated that Gleitmo is expensive and hard to get in consumer quantities.

Here's a descriptive link:
http://www.fuchs-lubritech.com/cms/spip.php?page=produkt&id_rubrique=23&id_produkt=2993

"gleitmo 582 is a white, adhesive semi-synthetic grease with solid lubricants, liquefied with a solvent for easy penetration into the cavities of the chain.

gleitmo 582 is in liquid form when applied, but becomes a stringy, adhesive grease after gradual evaporation of the solvent which can neither be thrown off nor washed away by water. gleitmo 582 is also largely resistant to acids and lyes and provides reliable protection against corrosion."

A quick search didn't turn up any way for the consumer to buy a reasonable quantity. If anyone finds a source, I would be very interested.

With any chain I've bought, if I leave the factory lube on, the chain wants to stick to the chainring and follow it around the ring. I get weird noises and such. I clean off the preservative with WD-40 then lube as usual.

With any chain I've bought, if I leave the factory lube on, the chain wants to stick to the chainring and follow it around the ring. I get weird noises and such. I clean off the preservative with WD-40 then lube as usual.

That sounds like a derailleur-adjustment issue to me. Not a chain-lube problem.

I have noticed using factory PRESERVATIVE for a lube and not cleaning before you apply real lube leads to a very black chain, and the only way I can get them clean is to soak/shake in Citrus Degreaser (pedro's orange peelz to be exact) followed by a few hot water rinses. I use a plastic coke bottle for this, 16oz or 20oz work fine. I have to take my chain off my sirrus soon, when I get a master link for it, and perform my cleaning routine on it. I then lube up with ProLink and I am set for a while between oil applications. The only time I don't clean it off is when I am going to be using Wax based lubes, then it doesn't seem to really make any difference at all.