Road Cycling - Ran off the road today

Some dumb bunny was driving beside me and made a right turn into a church driveway, signalling as she was making the turn.

"I didn't see you"

NO.

SH1T.

SHERLOCK. :twitchy:


Then I though about it for a second...I was in her blind spot. This was after I launched into her with a tirade of expletives about her not using her passenger mirror.

She was right.

Blind spot ppl.

Unless you passed her from behind, she is clearly in the wrong.

Presuming she caught you from behind at some point, she should be paying attention to where you were. In any case she should have signaled.

Yup, if I'm ever behind a car/bicyclist in the right lane at any intersection, I assume s/he could pull a right and I make sure I'm not in their path. Certainly helps avoid cases like this.

Some dumb bunny was driving beside me and made a right turn into a church driveway

Thank God you weren't harmed. It must have been divine intervention.

Thank God you weren't harmed. It must have been divine intervention.

I thank my brake pads. God could've done me a favour by tapping that dumb b1tch on the shoulder and giving her a heads up, but no.

I had a (sort of) similar situation the other day riding along 82nd here in Portland. There was a Z4 with its top down, and I knew the guy was going to make a right turn. He kept checking his rear-view and passenger mirrors, so I thought he might have seen me, considering he was stopped at the red light for a while when I was approaching. I was coming up to the turn as the light turned green, he still managed to almost hit me. It was a close call, but I looked back and shook my head.

A month or so ago, I was almost right-hooked by a U-Haul truck who decided not to check his passenger mirror before turning. He was inches from hitting me with his front bumper, shook my head at him, too.

I need to make stickers for special occasions like this, to slap on people's cars.

"I almost right-hooked a cyclist today."
"I ran a red light today." That is a big one.
The list could go on.

I thank my brake pads. God could've done me a favour by tapping that dumb b1tch on the shoulder and giving her a heads up, but no.

Well said. If you survive out there, it's because of your own wits.

Yesterday's b-group ride, coming to a light, five cars already in line, car #3 has his right signal on. I'm at the front. I ease up and stop/stand off the back corner of the right turning car so s/he can go ahead and turn without running any of us over. What did the group do? You know the answer. Most of them went right past me to get right up to the light, so all these people can re-pass them, and maybe the right-turner will get one or two.

Darwin favors the cager.

I had a (sort of) similar situation the other day riding along 82nd here in Portland. There was a Z4 with its top down, and I knew the guy was going to make a right turn. He kept checking his rear-view and passenger mirrors, so I thought he might have seen me, considering he was stopped at the red light for a while when I was approaching. I was coming up to the turn as the light turned green, he still managed to almost hit me. It was a close call, but I looked back and shook my head.

A month or so ago, I was almost right-hooked by a U-Haul truck who decided not to check his passenger mirror before turning. He was inches from hitting me with his front bumper, shook my head at him, too.

I need to make stickers for special occasions like this, to slap on people's cars.

"I almost right-hooked a cyclist today."
"I ran a red light today." That is a big one.
The list could go on.

You rolled past a right turn signal at a light? You shouldn't do that on your invisible little bike, because if a car hits you it's gonna hurt really bad.

You rolled past a right turn signal at a light? You shouldn't do that on your invisible little bike, because if a car hits you it's gonna hurt really bad.

He was third in line at the light. :(

Was she hot?

Passing on the right at speed at/through an intersection isn't smart. Don't do that.

Then I though about it for a second...I was in her blind spot. This was after I launched into her with a tirade of expletives about her not using her passenger mirror.

She was right.

Blind spot ppl.

Last I checked they generally recommend that people turn their heads and check their blind spot while driving, I know it's a habit for me. Just because you were in her blind spot doesn't mean that "she was right" about not seeing you.

You are very understanding and probably very wise. Sounds to me like you improved yourself through adversity which puts you ahead of the curve. Well played.

He was third in line at the light. :(

That's why you act like a vehicle at a light and wait your turn like everyone else.

Sounds to me like you improved yourself through adversity

It depends. What will you do in that situation next time, Robo?

That's why you act like a vehicle at a light and wait your turn like everyone else.

Never!

It depends. What will you do in that situation next time, Robo?

If the traffic is heavy I guess I have no choice but to reduce speed and stay behind, trying to avoid being alongside cagers. I'm quite fast, you know :D

...And this happened on a four lane road with a dedicated bike lane, go figure.

If the traffic is heavy I guess I have no choice but to reduce speed and stay behind, trying to avoid being alongside cagers. I'm quite fast, you know :D

...And this happened on a four lane road with a dedicated bike lane, go figure.

That's what some people cite as the major problem with bike lanes- that they end in a "coffin corner". If I'm in a bike lane and there is any traffic around at all, I get in the traffic lane as I approach intersections. Maybe not as fast as cruising through, but safer and more predictable for both you and the cars.

Also, getting a mirror if you don't already have one is a decent way to know if there is approaching traffic. I like my helmet mounted one; it moves with my head, so I can scan traffic across several lanes behind me. I still do head checks, but I know what I expect to see before I look which makes the head check more effective- just filling in the blanks instead of trying to take in the whole picture at a glance.

Never!

Suit yourself. JoeyBike flaunts every law and gets away with it. I don't have such cojones.

Was she hot?

And still no answer . . . c'mon, priorities people.

JoeyBike flaunts every law and gets away with it.

Flouts.

That's what some people cite as the major problem with bike lanes- that they end in a "coffin corner". If I'm in a bike lane and there is any traffic around at all, I get in the traffic lane as I approach intersections. Maybe not as fast as cruising through, but safer and more predictable for both you and the cars.

Intersections are not really a problem for me, and yeah taking the whole lane at a busy intersection is always a good idea. This happened as I was passing a driveway off a main road in the city. I was just in a bad spot going very fast, and she was making a surprise right turn ahead of me, whcih forced me to enter the same driveway she was entering. Stupidity on both counts. :thumb:

get a mirror

mirrors suck.

You don't like em? Don't use one.

This is one of the hazards of riding too far to the right .....dumba$$ drivers tune you out...or simply aren't looking if you're not really in the lane...

These days you gotta stand out and get noticed. Take up juggling, swap the bike for a unicycle and have a bear on a bike follow behind you. At every light busk for some spare change. Get a good workout and make some cash at the same time. :thumb:

I feel for ya, and definitely think the driver should have known where you were at all times. It's the driver of a motor vehicle's responsibility to make sure they aren't going to put anyone in harms way. Plus the whole using the signal AS YOU'RE TURNING is really annoying. Why even use it at that point? Everyone knows you're turning, now....

BUT! I do feel we as bikers also need to take caution and be watchful for all possible moves of the world around us. We are the most agile and most able to jump out of harms way on the road (aside from runners maybe).

Hm. Glad to hear you're OK... I had a sort of similar incident recently, except I was the driver. Inching forward in traffic at a red light. I pop on my turn signal, inch forward, inch forward, eventually I have space to turn into a parking lot. A guy on a fixie is flying down the side of the road (no bike lane and note - I HAD MY BLINKER ON), and broadsides my car as I'm making the turn. The kid ends up on my hood.

Fortunately, the kid is OK, the bike's a little wobbly but it's a beater anyway, and my car is fine. He dusts himself off as I get out of the car, turns to me and goes, "Dude, that was entirely my fault. No, seriously. I screwed up there."

Which was a bit of a surprise. I'm pretty sure it was his fault, but it was nice that he admitted it so readily.

don't people look over their shoulders anymore? When I was in training for my license I was told to look over, many times. Checking over my shoulder was even on the test.

Inching forward in traffic at a red light. I pop on my turn signal, inch forward, inch forward, eventually I have space to turn into a parking lot. A guy on a fixie is flying down the side of the road (no bike lane and note - I HAD MY BLINKER ON), and broadsides my car as I'm making the turn. The kid ends up on my hood.

Know what you did wrong? You didn't move to the right edge of the roadway before the turn.

You made an illegal right turn and caused the crash. The fixie rider was not breaking the law, you were.


California Vehicle Code Section 22100:
The driver of any vehicle intending to turn upon a highway shall do so as follows:
(a) Right Turns. Both the approach for a right-hand turn and a right-hand turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway

Ignoring the fact that I don't live in California... a couple things:

I wasn't on a highway - I was on a narrow, two-way street with one lane in each direction. I was, by default, as close to the right hand curb as possible. There was room for a bicycle, to be sure, but not much else. Any closer and I'd have ground my wheels against the curb, or mounted the curb when I made the turn. I was turning into a parking lot, in stopped traffic. The cyclist was moving past all the cars on the right, when, if you want to get technical, he should have been stopped like the rest of us. I checked over my shoulder, and for whatever reason - he was too far back for me to see him at the time, who knows, I simply didn't see him. But even if I did, he bears responsibility here.

Look, I certainly felt bad for him hitting me, but I'm fairly certain I wasn't at fault here. I have to say it - in Cambridge, MA, the commuter cyclists are a nightmare. They blow lights at busy intersections, they ride up on curbs and weave through pedestrian traffic, they cut across lanes without signaling, etc. I won't say that I obey every single traffic law when driving OR riding (although this is why I almost never ride in the city - it's just too chaotic), but in this instance, it simply wasn't my fault.

If you push the envelope enough, sometimes it breaks. Splitting traffic at best is Russian Roulette. While it's fun, it's dangerous. Since you are on a 15 lb. bicycle and they are sitting in a 2000 lb. car, guess who wins.

The guy on the fixie was an idiot.

Blind spots do exist, especially in cars. I drive a big SUV for work and it has great mirror coverage. My old chevy's didn't have such luxury in the old days. I love the convex mirrors, they help. About 20 years ago, I changed lanes and took a motorcycle over the curb. It was in a true blind spot. When I picked him up and made sure he was OK, thankfully no damage, we talked for a good while. I am a rider too, have been run off the road a few times, and did it to someone else unintentionally. Moral of story, don't put yourself in a position to get squashed.

Blind spots do exist, especially in cars.

Especially new cars. The small SUVs are some of the worst. I didn't know what blind spots were (my car doesn't really have any) until I helped my mom pick out a new car. HOLY CRAP! You can't see anything out of a new car, even if you look over your shoulder. I guess that is why a lot of them have cameras on the back now. I hate the way cars are today, they try to make the cars safer in a crash instead of preventing the crash in the first place.

(I'm basing this on California Vehicle Code, I don't know about Massachusetts.)


I wasn't on a highway - I was on a narrow, two-way street with one lane in each direction.

For legal purposes, a street is a highway. So legally, you were on a highway.


"Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.




If you left enough room for a bicycle to pass, then you weren't as close to the curb as practical. By default.

[QUOTE=kbtommy;9692841]The cyclist was moving past all the cars on the right, when, if you want to get technical, he should have been stopped like the rest of us.

Well, to avoid being hit by a motorist making an illegal right turn, I guess it's wise never to pass a car on the right. But why must the cyclist stop behind traffic, is there some Massachusetts law that prevents passing stopped traffic? Passing on the right is legal in California.


Look, I certainly felt bad for him hitting me, but I'm fairly certain I wasn't at fault here.

Maybe not in Massachusetts, but based on your description, you clearly violated the California Vehicle Code. If I had been the cyclist, I would be demanding compensation for damages.

Right hook accidents are some of the most common car vs bicycle collisions. Turning from as far to the right as practical is meant to prevent them, and that's why it's in the California Vehicle Code.

If you left enough room for a bicycle to pass, then you weren't as close to the curb as practical. By default.

It says "as far to the right as practical" not "as far right as to avoid leaving space for a 2 foot wide bicycle". Two feet from the curb is not practical.

I don't ride my bike in the door zone, if I can help it. And I don't drive there either, for most of the same reasons.

Signalling? Moving slowly with stop and go traffic? Cautious turn into a driveway?

Sorry, I think the cyclist screwed the pooch here.

It says "as far to the right as practical" not "as far right as to avoid leaving space for a 2 foot wide bicycle". Two feet from the curb is not practical.

Thank you.

Jesus Christ.

It wasn't an illegal turn. I was in a single lane. I was as far to the right as I could safely be. I had my blinker on. How is turning into a parking lot, under those circumstances, illegal?

I don't know how much clearer I can be. However, since you clearly have no interest in anything other than finding motorists at fault, regardless of circumstance, I'm calling it a day on this one, lest I go insane.

Have a lovely day.

Passing on the right is legal in California.

Really? Even when there is a single lane?

It says "as far to the right as practical" not "as far right as to avoid leaving space for a 2 foot wide bicycle". Two feet from the curb is not practical.

If the motorist left only 2 feet of space to the curb, I doubt the bicyclist would have attempted passing at speed. When I'm turning right in a vehicle, there is no way that a cyclist can squeeze through on the right.

The word is "practicable", meaning "can be accomplished". If you can accomplish a right turn while remaining 2 feet from the curb, then you are supposed to.

But I don't mean to quibble over how many inches is or isn't to many, the majority of the drivers turn so wide as if they think they're pulling a semi trailer. The "as far to the right as practicable" rule must be one of the most violated by motorists, especially when there is a bike lane. For some reason, drivers seem reluctant to merge into a bike lane to make turns, even though they are required to by law. And right hook collisions continue.

Apparently, I lied about letting this go.

Did you read my initial post? There was no bike lane. I was on a two way street, in stop-and-go traffic, making a wide turn literally impossible (there was the same amount and type of traffic headed in the other direction). I realize that you may see these things on a day to day basis, but to make the same assumptions here, with someone who is also a cyclist, after I clearly stated what happened, is ridiculous. Because make no mistake, that's what you did. You made a completely mistaken assumption.

[throws hands in the air, walks off muttering]

Then I though about it for a second...I was in her blind spot. This was after I launched into her with a tirade of expletives about her not using her passenger mirror.

She was right.

Blind spot ppl.

Why be a self-hating wuss about it? If she ran into you and you happened to be in her blind spot, it is not your fault, nor does that make her right in any way.

I hate when drivers do this. Bus drivers even do it around here- regularly.

Really (is it legal in California to pass on the right)? Even when there is a single lane?

If you're driving a motor vehicle in a residential or business district, and the roadway is wide enough for two lines of traffic in the same direction,

Then yes, you can pass on the right. Cyclists are not restricted from passing on the right at any time. Only motor vehicles have specific restrictions.


Passing on the Right

21754. The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
(a) When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn.

(b) Upon a highway within a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving vehicles in the direction of travel.

(c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel.

(d) Upon a one-way street.

(e) Upon a highway divided into two roadways where traffic is restricted to one direction upon each of such roadways.

Blind spots suck.

Generally, my rule is, "Cyclist Are Invisible", blindspot or not. Regardless of laws for cyclists and drivers and whether or not anyone is obeying them to the letter of the law (my guess is NONE of us or them are), it means being on your guard, especially at all these annoying, seemingly innocuous situations, which is seems like the OP was thankfully! Cars in your lane turning right don't see you. Cars in the opposite lane turning left don't see you. Cars in the cross street trying to turn left or right don't see you. Cover your brakes and be ready. I also give a little smile and wave, a tiny thank you, to the drivers who do wait, even though they are supposed to, it's a little thing to a) make sure they see me and b) maybe make them not be too annoyed for waiting and want to run us over the next time they see one of us.

And yeah.... Blind spots suck.

I realize that you may see these things on a day to day basis, but to make the same assumptions here, with someone who is also a cyclist, after I clearly stated what happened, is ridiculous. Because make no mistake, that's what you did. You made a completely mistaken assumption.

I don't need to assume anything to make a conclusion, I'm only going on what you wrote:

A. You intended to made a right hand turn,
B. cyclist on your right side was traveling straight,
C. you turned in front of him,
D. cyclist hit your vehicle broadside and ended up on your hood.

Based on those stated facts and my understanding of Vehicle Code, I'd say that you violated the right hand turn law, and that you were at fault for the collision. How else can one interpret your stated facts? If you think you're innocent, can you tell me which vehicle codes you think the cyclist violated?

I don't need to assume anything to make a conclusion, I'm only going on what you wrote:

A. You intended to made a right hand turn,
B. cyclist on your right side was traveling straight,
C. you turned in front of him,
D. cyclist hit your vehicle broadside and ended up on your hood.

Based on those stated facts and my understanding of Vehicle Code, I'd say that you violated the right hand turn law, and that you were at fault for the collision. How else can one interpret your stated facts? If you think you're innocent, can you tell me which vehicle codes you think the cyclist violated?

Not going to spend the time to look over the code to find the exact rule, but I imagine there is a law on the books about passing other vehicles in a safe manner. Passing on the right when that vehicle is making a right turn would clearly violate that.

I'm not sure why you think driving 5 feet away from the curb instead of 2 feet is a worse offense than unsafely overtaking another vehicle.

If you left enough room for a bicycle to pass, then you weren't as close to the curb as practical. By default.

Not making a judgement on kbtommy's actions, but I have to point out that bicyclists frequently pass motor vehicles with less than 2' to spare. Spend an hour in downtown LA and you'll see at least 1 fixie with handlebars chopped to about 12" wide riding in the gutter with his curbside pedal up so he can hug the curb.

I'm not sure who would be at fault in this situation, but I don't care to find out. If I see a car with its right blinker on, or even without a blinker but looking like a turn is emminent, I wait behind it or pass on the left. Better than being dead right.

I contend if the outside mirrors are adjusted correctly there are no "blind spots". When traffic approching from behind starts to disappear from the inside mirror the outside mirror picks up the traffic.

As long as your vision is not blocked by cargo or kids this method seems to work on my SUV, wife's compact SUV, and my convertable even with the top up.:D

The "blindspot" is avoidable in probably 90% of private vehicles. The sad part is I find very few drivers that were ever taught the correct mirror adjustment.

Operator error.

Best regads,

Mike