Living Car Free - In Totonto: 'Car-free' condo: 42 storeys, no parking

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tsl
09-16-09, 06:07 PM
In today's Toronto Star. Their articles scroll off after a week, so I've quoted some of it below.

http://thestar.ca/yourhome/newsfeatures/article/696394


'Car-free' condo: 42 storeys, no parking

A controversial 42-storey condo building that will be built without permanent parking spots cleared a key hurdle yesterday.

The Toronto-East York community council overruled city staff skeptical about the dearth of parking to allow a plan that provides for only nine car-share rental spots, plus 315 spaces for bicycles.

The condominium would go up on the site of the century-old Royal Canadian Military Institute on University Ave. near Dundas St., which would be demolished, with elements of its facade preserved at the base and a thin tower above.

"If you look at the evidence of what sells downtown, the majority of units under 750 square feet in the downtown core sell without parking,'' said Stephen Deveaux, a vice-president with the developer, Tribute Communities. Parking spots typically add $20,000 or more to the cost of a downtown condo.

Deveaux called the project, which still needs approval from full city council, an opportunity to design and market an "environmentally progressive building." With so many jobs and handy transit nearby, the units will sell, Deveaux said.

<snip>

It also won praise yesterday from Franz Hartmann, co-executive director of the Toronto Environmental Alliance, who said such buildings are uncommon – if they exist at all. "In the past it was natural to allocate parking spots, but in 21st century Toronto, where we're battling climate change, we don't need that any more,'' he said.

The few parking spots in the plan will be devoted to car-share arrangements, whereby residents can rent a car as needed by the hour.

<snip>

Normally, building plans follow a formula for how much parking space should be allowed; current standards, if applied to the building, would provide approximately 140 parking spaces for residents.

Interesting stuff in the two sidebars too:


ON A CLEAR DAY, YOU CAN SEE METRO

What does it take to live car-less-ly? Schlepping groceries and other stuff home on foot can take some effort, especially in a downtown area that's less residential than some.

From 426 University Ave., site of a proposed condo building with no parking, it is:


10 blocks to the nearest supermarket (Metro at Gould and Jarvis Sts.) [Although one of the comments says there's another one only 3 blocks away]
4 blocks to the nearest LCBO (595 Bay St.) [That's a government liquor store.]
4 blocks to the nearest Canadian Tire (Bay and Dundas Sts.)
6 blocks to the nearest mall (Eaton Centre)


On the other hand, it's:


A few steps to St. Patrick's subway station
2 blocks to the opera house
3 blocks to major hospitals
5 blocks to Queen's Park




SHARE THE SPACE

Car-sharing firms should be awarded trial permits for six parking areas on downtown streets, Toronto's works committee recommended this week. The firms would pay an annual fee of $200; the four areas would hold two to six cars each.

A staff report said car sharing, a membership system for renting vehicles by the hour, cuts traffic by making it easier to live in the city without owning a car.

Some councillors said $200 is too low for commercial operators and will reduce revenue from metered parking. "We may not be driving the cars, but we sure are being taken for a ride," said Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong. Others noted none of the areas is metered and argued that car sharing advances city goals of fewer cars and cleaner air.

The proposal must still be approved by city council.

There are currently 117 comments on the piece, with the expected mix of pro, con and clueless.

Discuss!


gerv
09-16-09, 06:17 PM
Considering the price of Toronto real estate, a savings of $20,000 on the cost of parking should help make the condos more attractive. And it's only 4 blocks to Canadian Tire, close to the liquor store.. with a nearby opera house... Heaven!

nelson249
09-16-09, 08:55 PM
It's a pity that they are ripping down the Royal Canadian Military Institute though.


Jude
09-16-09, 11:29 PM
Do they have bike parking?

wahoonc
09-17-09, 05:36 AM
Do they have bike parking?

Yes...315 spaces. I hope it is a secured area.

Aaron:)

metro2005
09-17-09, 12:40 PM
Although i love riding my bike i would never buy a house wich has no space for my car. I rarely use it but i would not sell it since it is the most comfortable and the cheapest way to go if i have to travel large distances. I do not intent to live my life in just one place.

Jude
09-17-09, 01:07 PM
I hope it is a secured area.



That's what I meant...that would be quite a selling point for me.

rbrian
09-17-09, 01:50 PM
Although i love riding my bike i would never buy a house wich has no space for my car. I rarely use it but i would not sell it since it is the most comfortable and the cheapest way to go if i have to travel large distances. I do not intent to live my life in just one place.

I am selling a house with a garage to buy a flat with no parking. I have no car, train is the most comfortable, but bus is by far the cheapest way to travel large distances.

Sometimes it amazes me how different things are on the other side of the Atlantic.

gerv
09-17-09, 07:29 PM
Sometimes it amazes me how different things are on the other side of the Atlantic.
Perhaps it is just you. Lots of people in Europe own cars, but for you it is more than apparent that you don't need one.

Something society on this side of the Atlantic would frown on. For you, you're in Europe... society can frown all it wants.

andmalc
09-17-09, 08:32 PM
Although i love riding my bike i would never buy a house wich has no space for my car. I rarely use it but i would not sell it since it is the most comfortable and the cheapest way to go if i have to travel large distances. I do not intent to live my life in just one place.

Quoting my post in the Carfree Vacations thread: " My car free vacation in two weeks: train to Toronto, flight (this part's no so eco) to Vancouver, train or bus to Whistler, rent a bike in Whistler and do some hiking too."

I used to go camping by taking the train to Temagami (north of North Bay) and walking to the place where my canoe was stored.

wheel
09-17-09, 11:44 PM
I am sure a grocery store of some kind will open after that is built.

Roody
09-18-09, 01:06 PM
Although i love riding my bike i would never buy a house wich has no space for my car. I rarely use it but i would not sell it since it is the most comfortable and the cheapest way to go if i have to travel large distances. I do not intent to live my life in just one place.

You keep reading on this forum, and I guarantee you will learn that being carfree never means "living your life in just one place." There are a lot of very well-traveled people posting here who are carfree.

:)

Roody
09-18-09, 01:07 PM
I am sure a grocery store of some kind will open after that is built.

Or at least an existing store will start making free deliveries to the building.

Golf XRay Tango
09-18-09, 02:00 PM
There may not be a supermarket nearby, but the PATH system would be accessible from within the building. There's a bunch of boutiques selling produce and fresh meat down there that would be a short indoor walk away.

There are quite a few condo developments in that part of the downtown, so I'm sure the shopping options will only get better.

crazybikerchick
09-24-09, 11:02 AM
Although i love riding my bike i would never buy a house wich has no space for my car. I rarely use it but i would not sell it since it is the most comfortable and the cheapest way to go if i have to travel large distances. I do not intent to live my life in just one place.

These condos are within walking distance of several car rental agencies. Rarely using a car its cheaper not to own but rent as required.

noisebeam
09-24-09, 11:23 AM
I believe this is well intentioned (just based what was posted, didn't follow any links)

But I wonder if the skeptics also see this as a creative way to get around parking requirements which otherwise would have prevented the property from being housing.

I wonder how many (if any) public street parking spaces are moderately near by available on a first come basis. Yes unreliable, but that is how some folks do it in larger cities (thinking NYC)

But it does sound interesting and nice to see this kind of stuff happening.

Dahon.Steve
09-24-09, 08:47 PM
This type of building with no parking go up all the time in New York City. In my town, the cost of condos are just too high because they spend millions building six story parking lots next to this massive luxury condo. As a result, the buildings are half sold because the cost of the parking is built into the mortgage. In cities like Toronto, they have to start building affordable housing and that means no more parking. More than half of the city consist of roads and parking and this is driving up the cost of living.

They just built a new large condo across the street from my lightrail. The only reason they were able to build it with little parking was due to the fact the home originally there was not zoned for indoor parking. I'm going to make an offer if the price is reasonable.

jefferee
09-25-09, 06:46 PM
I believe this is well intentioned (just based what was posted, didn't follow any links)

But I wonder if the skeptics also see this as a creative way to get around parking requirements which otherwise would have prevented the property from being housing.

I wonder how many (if any) public street parking spaces are moderately near by available on a first come basis. Yes unreliable, but that is how some folks do it in larger cities (thinking NYC)

But it does sound interesting and nice to see this kind of stuff happening.

In the article, the developer acknowledged that a parking garage would have been very difficult to include in the project because the site is so narrow.

Roody
09-26-09, 12:58 PM
Well one thing we talk about in discussions of bike-friendly city planning is the need for denser cities. The main thing standing in the way of greater population density is....parking lots.

The second obstacle to density is the need for wider streets to get cars from one parking lot to another parking lot.