General Cycling Discussion - what do motorists think?

Does anyone know of a place to find discussions of non-cycling motorists opinions toward cyclist, written by motorists? I think it would be helpful to understand what motorists are feeling when they see cyclists on the road. This could be very helpful in anticipating motorist behavior, and also in making the dialog between cyclists and non-cycling motorists more effective.

andy

Most of the time, its pretty obvious what they are thinking. Usually a mixture of contempt and derision. Sometimes, courtisy, and most dangerous of all, is nothing. (It is the bullet marked to whom it may concern..)

The major problem with analysing drivers thoughts is that they are often totally illogical. They speed up towards stop signs, drive into other peoples braking distances. The biggest mistake they make is to confuse speed and quickness. Racing drivers are never fast, they are quick. Drivers fail to recognise that it is the slow bits which determine journey time.

One television motoring journalist took a course in advanced driving, and was able to improve his fuel consumption from 25mpg to 40mpg, yet arrive just as quickly. He was incapable of maintaining this style his own, prefering to convert fuel into noise and acceleration rather than transportation.

Originally posted by MichaelW
Most of the time, its pretty obvious what they are thinking. Usually a mixture of contempt and derision.
And sometimes with a dangerous dollop of jealousy. It's not just jealous lovers that commit murder (or, as the courts would most likely find in all but the most blatant cases, manslaughter, if anything at all).

Motorists think? Isn't that a revelation!

Being serious for a second, I don't think you can generalise the entire motoring population. There are some who are happy to share the roads and do so in a safe and courteous manner. There are others who will resent the simple fact that someone happens to be riding a bike on "their road" and will act accordingly.

Personally, I try not to worry about what they are thinking. It's impossible to tell in the real world, so I just concentrate on doing what will make my journey safer and more pleasant.

My opinion is this:
We shouldn't be worried about what motorists think. The ones that actually think are not the ones that cause the mayhem. it's the ones that merely react that cause the problems. You'd probably get farther asking the car what it was thinking after a cyclist gets run over.

In "My Fair Lady," Rex Harrison said something like, "As soon as I let a woman in my life, I become selfish and tyrannical..."

That's me behind the wheel. I can only wonder what other drivers become!

:eek:

Good point Pete. I like to say "motorists" when referring to them, and "cyclist" when referring to me. If I really want to be honest, however, I'd have to say that I'm both.

What, do motorists think? ;)

As someone who had never been on a bike on the road until last week (I'm 31), I might can offer a little bit of insight. PLEASE note that this is my opinion, so hold off on death threats and the like. I can tell you that most motorists don't think about the inherent dangers associated with this sport. In many cases, I don't think it's intentional, but they have never stopped to consider the possible consequences of their actions toward a cyclist. I didn't UNTIL I pulled my bike onto the road for the first time.

Now I know that, even if something happened and I never rode again, I still would never look at bike riders the same. What's my point? The root of the problem is ignorance (probably on both sides to some extent).

A nickle's worth of free advice: if you are truly concerned about the issue, do what you can to change it. As a preacher, I found out quickly that not everyone wanted to hear what I had to say. Did I quit? No. I move on to those that I can help. If you have non-biking friends, try to educate them on the issue. Most have never considered what is at stake. If you work it into the coversation with out preaching (no pun intended) you will have better results, and they in turn will eventually share the info with others. If you offend them immediately, you will never be able to talk to them and get results, so I advise against going in with six-guns blazing. Remember that for the most part these are probably going to be the same people you share the road with, so it can only help your situation, if handled correctly. At the very least, you've given them something to think about.

You can't change the world, so do what you can to help those who can be helped.

Just my opinion- 'goose

Originally posted by D*Alex
......it's the ones that merely react that cause the problems. You'd probably get farther asking the car what it was thinking after a cyclist gets run over.

Chris's Primate term come to mind. :D

'goose wrote: "If you have non-biking friends, try to educate them on the issue. Most have never considered what is at stake. If you work it into the coversation with out preaching (no pun intended) you will have better results, and they in turn will eventually share the info with others. If you offend them immediately, you will never be able to talk to them and get results, so I advise against going in with six-guns blazing. Remember that for the most part these are probably going to be the same people you share the road with, so it can only help your situation, if handled correctly. At the very least, you've given them something to think about. "

I agree all the way. This is the approach I took with co-workers (all non-cyclists, all motorists, some very enthusiastic about their cars) when I was commuting. In almost all cases, they came to alter their perception of cycling for the better, and in the few remaining ones, at least they had food for thought.

I save the expression of my harsher feelings towards motorists for the steamy pages of Bike Forums! :D (You don't think diplomats talk diplomatically at home, do you?)

Here's a little insight on what "motorists" think. Warning, it will make your cyclist blood boil at times.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=722042

For what it's worth, I post as purplehayes there and Fausto1 is a fellow Atlanta cyclist that I have yet to meet. If he posts here, he goes by a different user name.

Here's a little teaser from a "motorist":

...but I don't really think bicyclists need to be on public roads. They are accidents waiting to happen.

PH
:D

Originally posted by aturley
Does anyone know of a place to find discussions of non-cycling motorists opinions toward cyclist, written by motorists? I think it would be helpful to understand what motorists are feeling when they see cyclists on the road. This could be very helpful in anticipating motorist behavior, and also in making the dialog between cyclists and non-cycling motorists more effective.

andy

Go to Google's Usenet archive and search for the semi regular aus.cars/aus.bicycles crossposted flame wars. Search on 'critical mass' and you'll get more than you ever want of what motorists think. Bear in mind that you won't see much reason from either side in these discussions, but if that's what you thought you'd find when you asked this question then you're dreaming. I also don't think the denizens of aus.cars are necessarily representative of the motoring population at large.

Also, trying to anticipate motorist behavious is a mug's game. You can only respond to what IS happening, not what you think might or should happen.

Originally posted by Allister
Go to Google's Usenet archive and search for the semi regular aus.cars/aus.bicycles crossposted flame wars. Search on 'critical mass' and you'll get more than you ever want of what motorists think. Bear in mind that you won't see much reason from either side in these discussions, but if that's what you thought you'd find when you asked this question then you're dreaming.

I honestly don't think you'll get any realistic info on people's real perceptions from Internet discussion boards anyway. Let's face it, most people are far more obnoxious on-line than in real life (except for me, of course :D ). It probably has a lot to do with the whole anonymity thing ("who cares what I say about this guy, even if I do meet him, he'll never recognise me). And then of course, there are the trolls...

In all honesty, I think there is a whole spectrum of opinions of motorists here. However, for what it's worth, I'm with Allister on this one, deal with the situation that presents itself. Don't worry about what may or may not happen.

Originally posted by Chris L
Let's face it, most people are far more obnoxious on-line than in real life (except for me, of course :D
Come on, Chris! I refuse to believe you could be more obnoxious in real life than you are here! :D

As a commuter, back and forth to work each day, I find that motorist are more dangerous at certain times of the day. I've had to adjust my schedule to keep from being killed. In the city I live in there are two colleges as well as a number of business. I make a great effort to avoid being on the road from 6:45 to 7 am and from 7:45 to 8 am. Many students wake up 20 minutes before they have to be to class and the same goes for many employees and I won't even go into the amount of sleep or partying that went on the night before. Besides talking on the phone, I've seen them shaving, putting on make-up, curling their eyelashes and reading. I don't think a large number of motorist hate bicyclist any more than they hate other motorist, and we have all heard stories of road rage.They are late , they are tired, they are not paying attention and they are making a lot of mistakes that could cost peoples lives. I've had stuff thrown at me but not that often, not as often as I've had peolple almost drive into me from not paying attention to what they are doing.
You'd think someone sitting on their butt letting the car do all the work would be more relaxed than someone that has to pedal to get around but it's just the opposite. Things will change someday. More people will bike for economic reason or for their health. I have a dream.

This is an interesting anaysis, Ernie.

In addition, a friend who jogged 5 miles a day was cut in the forehead by an auto passenger who threw a pickle slice from his
hamburger at him.

Such immaturity!

I think a lot of these attacks on runners and cyclists arise out of enviousness. A psychologist I briefly discussed this with once thought the same. She was a cyclist. In fact the conversation took place on a ride.

Originally posted by JonR
I think a lot of these attacks on runners and cyclists arise out of enviousness.
Imagine a motorist cruising down the boulevard, and suddenly a jogging shoe flies in through the window. Or, maybe a bike.

NOT!

:D

Originally posted by Pete Clark

Imagine a motorist cruising down the boulevard, and suddenly a jogging shoe flies in through the window. Or, maybe a bike.

NOT!

:D
Not quite not... I confess to a pecadillo (and no, that's not a cross between a peccary and an armadillo). It was one of my not-too-frequent incidents of Bike Rage.

A motoring couple in a white car gave me a lot of grief--I don't remember the details now--and forced me off the road, in short. I threw my bike down in exasperation, then picked it up again and brandished it at the car as it drove past me, shouting, "I wish I could throw this throw your window!"

I don't know that it even made me feel any better, but the two primates in the car looked genuinely alarmed.

:crash:

Originally posted by Pete Clark

Imagine a motorist cruising down the boulevard, and suddenly a jogging shoe flies in through the window. Or, maybe a bike.

Allister and I have, on other boards, discussed a couple of interesting options in this area. I'm not sure Joe would appreciate that here tho.

If verbal articulation is any sign of human intelligence, those motorist who yell at cyclists and think we can understand even half of what the hell they're trying to say can't be all that quick in the melon.

Originally posted by 'goose
As someone who had never been on a bike on the road until last week (I'm 31), I might can offer a little bit of insight. PLEASE note that this is my opinion, so hold off on death threats and the like. I can tell you that most motorists don't think about the inherent dangers associated with this sport. In many cases, I don't think it's intentional, but they have never stopped to consider the possible consequences of their actions toward a cyclist. I didn't UNTIL I pulled my bike onto the road for the first time.

Now I know that, even if something happened and I never rode again, I still would never look at bike riders the same. What's my point? The root of the problem is ignorance (probably on both sides to some extent).

A nickle's worth of free advice: if you are truly concerned about the issue, do what you can to change it. As a preacher, I found out quickly that not everyone wanted to hear what I had to say. Did I quit? No. I move on to those that I can help. If you have non-biking friends, try to educate them on the issue. Most have never considered what is at stake. If you work it into the coversation with out preaching (no pun intended) you will have better results, and they in turn will eventually share the info with others. If you offend them immediately, you will never be able to talk to them and get results, so I advise against going in with six-guns blazing. Remember that for the most part these are probably going to be the same people you share the road with, so it can only help your situation, if handled correctly. At the very least, you've given them something to think about.

You can't change the world, so do what you can to help those who can be helped.

Just my opinion- 'goose


Point well made goose, and I'm sure motorists don't appreciate the problems because so few ride bikes now.

Even with sales of "sexy" MTB's bike sales in UK are down. I presume it will be the same elsewhere. A nation of Playstation playing, internet surfing, pie eating couch potato teens and younger never get off their behinds to ride a bike, then go straight on to get a car when they can, and , hormone fuelled, drive like dipsticks.

As a bicycle and motorbike rider, I hope I am a better motorist.

Unfortunately, some motorists don't understand bike riding and what you can't understand some people hate and distrust.

Originally posted by JonR
I think a lot of these attacks on runners and cyclists arise out of enviousness. A psychologist I briefly discussed this with once thought the same. She was a cyclist. In fact the conversation took place on a ride.

I'm just not sure I buy the jealous arguement. Then again, I'm also not a psychologist. It just sounds too much like what my parents would tell me when other kids made fun of in grade school. I think they would have to know what they were missing to be jealous. I would be very interested to hear the reasoning behind the jealousy idea.

I guess one of the reasons I asked the question to begin with was because I wanted some ideas on where to start for encouraging some people in the building I work in to participate in Bike to Work Week. I think most non-cycling motorists (I emphasize non-cycling because I am both a motorist and a cyclist) have prejudices against cyclists that need to be overcome before they are willing to embrace the idea of becoming cyclists themselves. As with many other things, they avoid it because they don't want to become "one of those people".

andy

Originally posted by aturley
I would be very interested to hear the reasoning behind the jealousy idea.
I don't know what a psychologist's reasoning might be, but my own is like this:

1. Non-cycling motorist sees happy cyclist.
2. NCM is rational enough and has enough experience and education to know that aerobic exercise is very good for most people.
3. NCM realizes with both guilt and anger that he/she is depriving him/herself of something beneficial--and also not having as much fun (at least at the moment!) as the happy cyclist, or HC.
4. Reacting along the lines of "Dammit, if I can't have fun, you shouldn't, either!" (like some kids on playgrounds, etc.), NCM hurls verbal or physical abuse at HC.

Some people take offense at the mere suggestion that anybody else might be superior in any way: including choice of activity. "You think you're better than me! I'll show you!"

Others have just the opposite reaction and are inspired by those they perceive as superior, and strive to emulate them, or at least to change their own lives for the better in some way.

That's how I see it.

I'm grateful to belong to the second group. I get inspired, not mad or vengeful.

To add to Jon's reason's, I think some are mad because they know they don't have the gumption to go out and do it themselves.

Originally posted by JonR

I don't know what a psychologist's reasoning might be, but my own is like this:

1. Non-cycling motorist sees happy cyclist.
2. NCM is rational enough and has enough experience and education to know that aerobic exercise is very good for most people.
3. NCM realizes with both guilt and anger that he/she is depriving him/herself of something beneficial--and also not having as much fun (at least at the moment!) as the happy cyclist, or HC.
4. Reacting along the lines of "Dammit, if I can't have fun, you shouldn't, either!" (like some kids on playgrounds, etc.), NCM hurls verbal or physical abuse at HC.

Some people take offense at the mere suggestion that anybody else might be superior in any way: including choice of activity. "You think you're better than me! I'll show you!"

Others have just the opposite reaction and are inspired by those they perceive as superior, and strive to emulate them, or at least to change their own lives for the better in some way.

That's how I see it.

I'm grateful to belong to the second group. I get inspired, not mad or vengeful.

OK, I guess that does make sense. Especially the "Dammit, if I can't have fun, you shouldn't, either!" Thanks for shedding some light on the issue.

andy

Originally posted by aturley

I guess one of the reasons I asked the question to begin with was because I wanted some ideas on where to start for encouraging some people in the building I work in to participate in Bike to Work Week.
Really there's not much you can do there. You can't really get people interested in cycling if they aren't interested already, if that makes any sense. All you can do is present it as an option, and wait and see if anyone takes it up.

This is much in the spirit of a principle I learned recently: never answer a question that hasn't been asked. In this case, you can't impose the desire to cycle on anyone.

However there are some good ways of 'presenting it as an option'. Earlier in the year I was keeping my bike near my desk. I have never had so many people stopping by my desk asking questions about the bike, riding to work, and expressing a desire to do the same. Once the questions start flying, all you have to do is answer them as best you can, and you never know, some of them might even start riding to work.

So, if you have the opportunity, keep your bike at your desk for a few weeks before Bike to Work day, and have plenty of flyers handy. If you can't keep your bike at your desk, a helmet displayed prominently might do the same trick.

Originally posted by aturley
I would be very interested to hear the reasoning behind the jealousy idea.
Jealousy can be a good thing, if it inspires people to do something good for themselves.

As for the reasoning behind the "jealousy motive," how about,

Husband: "Honey, that cyclist should not be wearing such a skin-tight outfit."

Honey: "What were you saying, dear? (Wow, that is some cute...)"

:D

Originally posted by LittleBigMan

Husband: "Honey, that cyclist should not be wearing such a skin-tight outfit."

Honey: "What were you saying, dear? (Wow, that is some cute...)"

:D

I really have to work on my lovehandles. Roll on spring so my winter store gets burned up!

OK, I am still wondering why everyone is so concerned with what motorists think. Virtually every time I get abused, I get the tired old (word for word) "Get off the F*ckin' road". This gives me the impression that their vocab is rather limited (only five words, for of which are only one syllable). It would give me headaches to try to think down to their level.

Those guys in that Anandtech forum are a bunch of morons, no doubt about it. Their logic is akin to blaming a woman for being raped when she's walking down a busy street in broad daylight, or blaming a kid for being abused by their parents.

I haven't had a car in years, although I maintain a drivers license, and I do remember what it was like behind the wheel. I also rode a bike and so I knew what it was like from that end, I often worried about things like a car door opening, a cyclist weaving around it suddenly and right in front of me and me not stopping in time, etc. I think that is why SOME motorists resent cyclists, because they worry about accidents. OF course, some are just jerks like those guys on Anandtech. But I remember being nervous about cyclists. In fact, once, I opened my car door while getting out after parking on a busy street, and a woman on a bike grazed the door; she just came right out of my blind spot and I didn't even see her. The door was only partially open, and she didn't seem to be hurt- i think just her foot or pedal grazed the door and she just kept going. But I felt terrible! After that I was even more cautious. In a way, I'm glad I don't have a car anymore so I dont have to worry about that, but I do understand how motorists can have blind spots like at stop signs, corners, etc. You can't do anything about that no matter how careful you are- it's actually something WE have to be aware of.

Hmmm, what does a motorist think?

a) "There's one o' those bicycling mouth-breathers that blow stop signs and lights, ride on the wrong side of the road in my neighborhood, has an apparent disregard for safety *unless* of course he's/she's the one who gets hit, and weaves in and out of traffic both pedestrian and vehicular without so much as an 'on yer left' or signal! Man, I hate all cyclists!"

b) "Oops...what was that noise? Did I scrape that car as I turned right? Hmmm, nope, don't see any damage. Why is that guy in the helmet screaming profanities though?"

c) "HEY! Get on the {bleep**ing sidewalk, jerk! I need to be where you are RIGHT NOW!"

...And various subtexts therein.

-Rob

Originally posted by wabbit
I haven't had a car in years, although I maintain a drivers license, and I do remember what it was like behind the wheel. I also rode a bike and so I knew what it was like from that end, I often worried about things like a car door opening, a cyclist weaving around it suddenly and right in front of me and me not stopping in time, etc. I think that is why SOME motorists resent cyclists, because they worry about accidents...But I remember being nervous about cyclists.

I'm surprised that more people haven't brought this up...or maybe I shouldn't be. Some of the really weird, scary, or dangerous behaviour I've seen from motorists strikes me as being related to their lack of confidence in either (1) their ability to safely pass a cyclist on the road or (2) their ability to predict the behaviour of the cyclist.

Now, there are doofuses and morons out there who probably just need an excuse to harass someone (perhaps even better if it's someone in spandex) and there are probably angry, frustrated drivers out there who are just looking for someone to blame for the frustration they feel while driving...but I do think most motorists just don't want to have accidents, and those that may behave the most erratically around us may be those that are the most freaked out about their ability to cope with cyclists.

For instance, one of the relatively few times I've been honked at by a driver was when I was riding down a relatively wide two lane arterial. Most cars seemed to have little problem passing me, and I figured they had plenty of room even though I was riding in the lane in order to avoid the door zone of intermittently parked cars (this was a *very* wide outside lane). The woman that did honk at me and gesture in frustration was in a mini-van with kids, and I think she might have been driving her kids to school (my suspicion: she was late). When I spoke to her at the next intersection, she claimed that she wasn't able to pass me, which struck me as odd because no-one else seemed to be having trouble (except for those behind her, of course), and I *had* seen plenty of SUVs and trucks pass me prior to her difficulties.

another time I was riding down another major road and someone gave me such a wide berth that they almost ran into cars in the lane beside them -- I felt very bad about that incident but I thought it was really bizarre behaviour and very bad driving, esp. since, again, no-one else seemed to be having trouble. And I swear, I wasn't doing anything weird, I was holding a line, and I actually wasn't even particularly far into the lane.

I also tried to pull over once on a busy road with somewhat narrow lanes. It wasn't the most stellar move on my part, but at the time I was afraid that my bike was about to fall apart (it was actually bits of my bike computer falling off) and I didn't want it to happen while I was going down the hill with cars coming over the crest of the hill behind me. I slowed, signaled, and pulled over as far as I could, figuring I was narrow enough to just cause a slight slowdown while people adjusted and went around. Unfortunately the person behind me stopped completely, and of course the person behind that person honked. I felt bad about this one, too (I have a lot of free-floating guilt, just waiting to attach itself to a reason) -- but I couldn't really understand why the person just couldn't have gone around. My expectations were incorrect, and I caused a traffic problem as a result. I felt very bad because I try to be on my best (vehicular) behaviour in traffic -- I feel it's a social responsibility owed my fellow cyclists -- and I felt like I'd just racked up points for the "stupid cyclist" image. I may have made the wrong decision at that time, but still, I was surprised by what struck me as being excessive caution. I don't mind being passed in close quarters: most people seem to be able to it quite competently, and that's okay by me as long as they're not running me down or cutting me off.

When I told someone at work about this incident a few hours later, he remarked that a lot of times people don't know what to do behind a cyclist because they don't know what the cyclist is going to do. He seemed to think that most cyclists are too unpredictable, and he said this as a regular motorist, not a regular cyclist. I have had a friend make a similar remark, when he was attempting to make the point that cyclists and cars can't really mix on the roads...his reason being that cyclists don't hold straight lines, wobbling and weaving around unseen irregularities in the road or being otherwise unpredictable.

I know that a lot of times we like to think that we shouldn't have to care what motorists think -- they don't know what they're missing anyway, they're in the wrong, yadda yadda yadda. But it does matter what they think to the extent that it affects their behaviour as drivers -- the choices they make when stopping, starting, and passing, in estimating our speed and predicting our movements.

And if it's the case that a lot of drivers make bad choices because they are freaked out by cyclists, and if part of the problem is that they are freaked out by cyclists because they assume certain things about cyclist behaviour, we need to ask:

where are those assumptions coming from?

What a good post, Hunterseeker.... (I especially like the part about free-floating guilt--I sure know that feeling.)

To me, your observations point up the need for every cyclist to ride predictably and obey the road rules. Everytime one of us does that, it may well create a GOOD impression in a motorist, and who can say what the reverberations of that may be?

What more can we hope for?

Yes, that's the thing- I think motorists don't know what we're going to do. Cars have signals that let you know when they're going to turn, stop, etc, and so do cyclists, but not many people are clued into the signals and we cna't automatically assume that they are. We can't assume ANYTHING- that they'll stop at a stop sign that they'll see us coming, that they know we're swerving to avoid a squished squirrel or a car door. But since we can't avoid going out on a road, we have to be aware of what's going on as much as possible. And try to be predictable!

Originally posted by wabbit
Yes, that's the thing- I think motorists don't know what we're going to do. Cars have signals that let you know when they're going to turn, stop, etc, and so do cyclists...
When I signal a left turn, I use the "proper hand," that is, the left hand. This leaves my right hand for braking. Who brakes with their right? If I use my left hand for braking, I have to pray the motorist behind me is not adjusting their radio, since my signal is so brief. No wonder many cyclists have given up signaling althogether.

:rolleyes:

I use my RIGHT HAND when signalling a RIGHT TURN. (Raise my left hand at a 90 degree angle? RIGHT! Um...)

I use the old-fashioned but still acceptable motorist signals: left arm straight out for a left turn, and left arm cocked upward for a right. In addition, I kind of "animate" the right-turn signal and point over my head to the right. But I'm afraid many motorists still don't understand: a lot of them probably don't even know how to roll down their windows, and apparently they don't have to pass any kind of driving test.... :(

I think motorists should pass a basic, "Focus on what the heck you're doing, test." Or at least, a "Focus on what the heck you're doing while you're driving, test."

whenever I'm driving (yes I admit I drive sometimes :( ) I try to give any riders as much room as possible, even before I was big into cycling, I was always afraid of them not having enough room and worse yet me causing them to get hit :eek:

I don't think that everyone dirves like me :( but it would help to know what most people think about cyclists.

When I'm riding with traffic I think of myself as another car, and I don't mind when people stop or do some action specifically for me (Rarely they do) it does however confuse me a bit, as to what they are doing who knows they may be stopping for another reason, and I have no desire to play chicken with a car. So I guess if motorists treated me like another vehicle it would be ok, but not everyone does that ;)

I use left arm for left turnings, right for right, drivers don't always seem to understand those so making it more complicated for them by using the car style left turn doesn't make sense round here. The signal I rarely use is the slowing down one - I tend to pull into the curb if I'm slowing down for anything not immediately obvious.

Richard

Originally posted by LittleBigMan
I think motorists should pass a basic, "Focus on what the heck you're doing, test." Or at least, a "Focus on what the heck you're doing while you're driving, test."
I think an intelligence test would be nice--but I guess that wouldn't be politically correct. After all, EVERYBODY is equally as intelligent as EVERYBODY else, right? :rolleyes:

I find hand signals to be less useful than claimed. Making an inside turn, if I signal, then the car behind will overtake, but I want to swing out before the corner, to keep a good line, so I just ride the corner and dissapear around it.
For offside turns, I look bening more obviously, and position myself to take the lane, then signal. Sometimes drivers thing my signal is an invitation to overtake me !

I use my right brake lever on the front brakes.

I have one offside turn at the bottom of a steep hill,on a blind corner with a steep camber. Oncomming cars usually cut the corner and drive on my side of the white line. I have to chose between braking, signalling or controlling the bike, so I usually signal 50m before the turn.

Originally posted by MichaelW
I have one offside turn at the bottom of a steep hill,on a blind corner with a steep camber. Oncomming cars usually cut the corner and drive on my side of the white line. I have to chose between braking, signalling or controlling the bike, so I usually signal 50m before the turn.

Oooh, that's the kind of intersection I approach on foot. I always feel I probably look silly doing it, but I'd rather feel embarrassed than find myself inexplicably in a hospital, unable to move anything.

(BTW, I'm not suggesting you're wrong to cycle all the way--I have long had the impression you're a much more skillful rider than I am.)

Originally posted by JonR

I think an intelligence test would be nice...
;)

(That would be intelligent!)

I haven't had all that much problem with drivers in Australia.
Ok, I have had things thrown at me, but these kids were throwing things at pedestrians as well it wasn't a cyclist thing.

You ocassionally get youths who buzz you or (my favourite) beep their horn when they're behind you and make you jump, but this is not really dangerous behaviour.

I drive a car and I can tell you - cyclists are COMPLETELY unpredictable.