Foo - Condos

You might know I've been shopping for a house. I'm starting to wonder if its the wrong time, or if I'm looking in a place that's out of my budget... or any number of other crazy concerns, like champagne taste on a box wine budget. Starting to feel like I'll be renting again soon (currently living with family). Which makes me wonder if I should take a look at some condos instead of single family homes.

I've been opposed to the condo thing in the past- not wanting to deal with a HOA, common neighbors, not having a yard, etc. I figure owning a condo isn't much different than just renting an apartment. But I'm starting to wonder, if I'll be renting instead- would I be better investing in a condo for a few years, get a little return out of my cash?


Thoughts on the condo v. home arguement?

Talk to your real estate professional. Look at market history. Can you really build equity? Watched a program on first time buyers last night. Single, male professional, bought a condo. His rental expense in the Lincoln Park area of Chicago was around $1300. Bought a condo a few miles away, monthly living expense went to around $2200 for comparable space with all fees, taxes HOA dues etc. factored in. You could build up a nice nest egg if you saved $900 per month for a year or tow and would not be tied down to a mortgage.

Are you pretty sure you are staying put long enough to build equity?

From my perspective, home ownership is better than condo ownership. I have never owned a condo though. I can tell you that if we sold the house today, we would come close to doubling original investment, after about 11 years of ownership.

If it was me, I would rent and save until the right place came along.

Talk to your real estate professional. Look at market history. Can you really build equity? Watched a program on first time buyers last night. Single, male professional, bought a condo. His rental expense in the Lincoln Park area of Chicago was around $1300. Bought a condo a few miles away, monthly living expense went to around $2200 for comparable space with all fees, taxes HOA dues etc. factored in. You could build up a nice nest egg if you saved $900 per month for a year or tow and would not be tied down to a mortgage.

Are you pretty sure you are staying put long enough to build equity?

From my perspective, home ownership is better than condo ownership. I have never owned a condo though. I can tell you that if we sold the house today, we would come close to doubling original investment, after about 11 years of ownership.

If it was me, I would rent and save until the right place came along.I am sure I'd be staying put for awhile to build equity. The TC's the place for me!

My main concern being 25 and forward thinking, I don't want to end up in a situation where 3-5 years from now I'm itching to move because I'm "settling down" and considering a family. I have crunched the numbers, and figure I'd be saving about $400/month renting v. buying at the price point I'm comfortable in. Not really going to save tons over the next year or 2.

I ride this fence post between a house being a lot of responsibility at this time in my life, but something I could grow into. OTOH, a condo is more the "fun" thing to do, but something I could grow out of too quickly.

arti! Welcome back. :)

hola, UA!

so, should I keep living with ma, or what? :)

hola, UA!

so, should I keep living with ma, or what? :)

Oh Snap!

Note the first time home buyers credit of $8000 runs out on Nov 30 and you have to be closed by that date. Now this may get extended but this is a nice bonus if you buy now.

You really have to look at your particular market. My GF is a realtor and while it has been tough down here in Miami things seem to be improving. The town I live in had 900 houses on the market last year this is now down to 350. She put in an offer on a short sale last week and it had 12 offers including a cash offer. The amount they took was $30k over her offer and she felt over priced. So those are some signs that demand is picking up and supply is dropping.

As for condo vs home a SFH is always less risky. With a condo you need to make sure that the occupancy rate is high, the majority of people are owners not investors and that the association is fully solvent. I plan to sell my SFH next year and get a condo on the beach but this is primarily because I am divorced and my kids will be gone so I don't have a need for a house. For someone starting out I would recommend a house over a condo if you can swing it financially.

Don't buy a condo. Rent if you want & save the funds. Sounds like a condo would be a "for now" solution - but if it's going to cost you that much extra per month, you might as well just sock the extra away for a down payment later.

Note the first time home buyers credit of $8000 runs out on Nov 30 and you have to be closed by that date. Now this may get extended but this is a nice bonus if you buy now.

You really have to look at your particular market. My GF is a realtor and while it has been tough down here in Miami things seem to be improving. The town I live in had 900 houses on the market last year this is now down to 350. She put in an offer on a short sale last week and it had 12 offers including a cash offer. The amount they took was $30k over her offer and she felt over priced. So those are some signs that demand is picking up and supply is dropping.

As for condo vs home a SFH is always less risky. With a condo you need to make sure that the occupancy rate is high, the majority of people are owners not investors and that the association is fully solvent. I plan to sell my SFH next year and get a condo on the beach but this is primarily because I am divorced and my kids will be gone so I don't have a need for a house. For someone starting out I would recommend a house over a condo if you can swing it financially.I have definitely seen the market drying up as well. I was also on a house hunt in spring of '08, but financially wasn't quite ready. Even in the last month, its few & far between seeing new houses pop up. ATM, I'm not interested in fighting the short sale battle, or looking at foreclosures, which makes my market that much narrower.

I've even seen homes come on the market (not SS or foreclosure) and go into a bidding war within days. Its crazy!!


With a condo you need to make sure that the occupancy rate is high, the majority of people are owners not investors and that the association is fully solvent. ^^ this is a good point. Although, I would also want to look into my ability to rent the condo, should I decide to do that down the road. Some HOA's only allow X number of rentals.

Housing is bouncing back so nows a good time to buy. Unless you buy a condo in an area that's undergoing some positive changes, prices don't appreaciate as much as houses. Also condo's pose poetntail problems with neighbors, especially older ones without as much sound proofing. You hate to feel stuck where the neighbors beside you or above you are constantly loud and noisy.

Many people forget about tax benefits from owning. The first few years payments are almost all interest which are deductable. That can make a $1,000 monthly payment for example be the same as a $650 one after taxes.

One benefit of condo's though is they can be rented fairly easily. When the don't appreciate fast, after you live there a couple years you have some equity. If you decide to move, an option is keeping it as an investment and rent it out. Even if rent isn't as much as your costs, you still get the interest deductions. Plus as the investor, you can depeciate things like the carpet, appliances, etc. It can be a good source of income for you.

Sigh - the one time I wish I lived in the States. In Canada there's no tax credit for interest.

Although, I would also want to look into my ability to rent the condo, should I decide to do that down the road. Some HOA's only allow X number of rentals.

You can do the same with a SFH. My GF has a 4/4 home, her last child moved to college and since the market was depressed she easily rented the house for $2800/mo. She then rented a beautiful condo directly on the beach for $2000/mo. So essentially she pays less utilities now and her rent is fully paid and she put $ in her pocket.

What is really interesting is the Trump Tower in Hollywood is one building over, finished and has zero occupancy in its 200 units. So those investors would rather wait until they can get their price on the property and run it at as low a maintenance level they can until people can afford the units. I believe the original starting prices were $1.6m for the smallest units. Will be interesting to see what they go on the market for and when.

If you are buying for a long-term residence, you should not allow the anticipation of short-term market fluctuations influence your decision to buy a particular type of property.

A condo or a single-detached each has its pros and cons. I live in a condo-townhouse, so I do have a big shared yard, and I don't have to cut the grass. That was appealing to me. What is important to you is probably different, but the things I regret most about buying the place I am in now is that I made compromises on things I really wanted, and now I don't like not having them...

So, my "official" advice is this: don't settle for something you don't want just because you feel it's important to buy something now to get a good price. I'd wait it out until what you want comes along.

The market is positively SATURATED with condos right now, at least here in my area. This is somewhat good for buyers but horrible for sellers. Plus, communities are having a hard time selling out all of their units, which means that the HOA doesn't switch over to the actual condo owners for a very long time. I personally don't think that condos are a good investment compared to actual freestanding homes, but that's just me. Plus the concerns you had about common neighbors, no yard, etc., are valid - condo living isn't much different than apartment living in that aspect. Wait it out until you LOVE something. Don't buy just because you feel the itch. This is a huge commitment - you want to make sure you're going to be VERY happy with it.

If you are buying for a long-term residence, you should not allow the anticipation of short-term market fluctuations influence your decision to buy a particular type of property.


+1
Housing is like the stock market we would like to get in at the bottom and out at the top. Unfortunately no one is able to predict things to that level. My experience with both is that the more long term your focus is the less you should worry. In my over 30+ years of home ownership I have moved (3) times and each time I made money, never lost money on property.

You have any really good friends? Good friends with money who would be willing to enter into a business agreement?

Me and a friend purchased a sweet house 50/50 both our names are on the mortgage (gay marriage style). It works, yeah you have the regular roommate issues, but the CASHHHHH we're going to make off this place blows away any disagreements we've had. It worked so well in fact, for our next place we're thinking about going in with another buddy on an apartment building. We'll all have our own apartments and rent out the rest.

I'm starting to wonder, if I'll be renting instead- would I be better investing in a condo for a few years, get a little return out of my cash?


Thoughts on the condo v. home arguement?

2 things: 1, your monthly condo fee includes building insurance (not contents/property insurance though). Maybe you already knew that.

2, I don't know about expecting return on your cash. I could see hoping you just plain get your money back, and that could be possible. Even with the market plunging, about 4 yrs along, we've built enough equity in our loan that we should get our downpayment back if we sold, leaving our monthly payments over the last 4 yrs as the rough equivalent of rent, which we were going to pay anyway. I suppose we'll be a bit behind where we would have been if we'd left that downpayment in a savings account but meantime we've been tearing down wallpaper and putting nailholes in the wall.

If you're not committed to paying rent anyway, I could see leaving the downpayment in the bank until the right place comes along.

Watch out with maintenance/repair fees on condos. You might be able to afford the monthly payment and condo fees, but how would you be strapped if the complex did an assessment and decided they had to repair the roofs, and charged all the residents an additional $2500 (or more)?
I've seen a few co-workers get nailed with this one recently.

You can do the same with a SFH. My GF has a 4/4 home, her last child moved to college and since the market was depressed she easily rented the house for $2800/mo. She then rented a beautiful condo directly on the beach for $2000/mo. So essentially she pays less utilities now and her rent is fully paid and she put $ in her pocket. Yeah, I realize I could rent out a SF too, but in terms of renting out a condo- I'd need to check on their rules on that first.


If you are buying for a long-term residence, you should not allow the anticipation of short-term market fluctuations influence your decision to buy a particular type of property.

A condo or a single-detached each has its pros and cons. I live in a condo-townhouse, so I do have a big shared yard, and I don't have to cut the grass. That was appealing to me. What is important to you is probably different, but the things I regret most about buying the place I am in now is that I made compromises on things I really wanted, and now I don't like not having them...

So, my "official" advice is this: don't settle for something you don't want just because you feel it's important to buy something now to get a good price. I'd wait it out until what you want comes along.I think no matter what (until my career puts me in the "next" income bracket) I'll be compromising on something. As a 1st time buyer, I'm having a hard time deciding what the biggest priorities are.


You have any really good friends? Good friends with money who would be willing to enter into a business agreement?

Me and a friend purchased a sweet house 50/50 both our names are on the mortgage (gay marriage style). It works, yeah you have the regular roommate issues, but the CASHHHHH we're going to make off this place blows away any disagreements we've had. It worked so well in fact, for our next place we're thinking about going in with another buddy on an apartment building. We'll all have our own apartments and rent out the rest.I've heard a few success stories like this, and its pretty cool. I like being independent and living alone, though so, not really interested in considering that option. However, if I could find an investor that didn't have any interest in living there with me... that would be excellent!



2, I don't know about expecting return on your cash. I could see hoping you just plain get your money back, and that could be possible. Even with the market plunging, about 4 yrs along, we've built enough equity in our loan that we should get our downpayment back if we sold, leaving our monthly payments over the last 4 yrs as the rough equivalent of rent, which we were going to pay anyway. I suppose we'll be a bit behind where we would have been if we'd left that downpayment in a savings account but meantime we've been tearing down wallpaper and putting nailholes in the wall.
Hmm, interesting situation- and a distinct possibility!


Watch out with maintenance/repair fees on condos. You might be able to afford the monthly payment and condo fees, but how would you be strapped if the complex did an assessment and decided they had to repair the roofs, and charged all the residents an additional $2500 (or more)?
I've seen a few co-workers get nailed with this one recently.
Yeah, I've heard a few horror stories like this. My realtor is currently more experienced in SF homes, so I expect I'd find a different realtor, more versed in dealing with associations, so they know what to look for in terms of how the association is banking their money to prevent an issue like that.

I have seen a building in St Paul with $6,000 in assessments! Holy crap, what do people do , take out a 2nd mortgage?

hola, UA!

so, should I keep living with ma, or what? :)

Oh hell ya you should. That's the good life. :P

Oh hell ya you should. That's the good life. :P

Should she sell her snowboard?

Condos retain value like a colander.
Best to rent, or wait until you find the right house.

There is NOTHING wrong with renting. If you are saving $400/month by renting, you should absolutely do that until you find the right place. At 25, all kind of changes can happen. When computing pros & cons you must remember that the condo fees and assessments are not tax deductable, only the interest on your mortgage and your property taxes. If you can save $4800/yr and put that in an interest bearing acct (do not allow yourself to touch it!), in a few yrs you have built significant equity towards a downpayment of the house of your dreams. You qualify for much better mortgage rates if you have >25%down. I bought my first house at 30. Now at 42, my home is paid off. We have moved 2 times and made money on the sale of our first home and lost on the sale of our condo (the middle home).

Arti, have you considered a townhome? Two of the four homes I have owned were townhomes. Both were end units so I only shared one wall. They had small yards, but that was easier for me to maintain by myself. They also appreciated just like a detached house. When the market skyrocketed a few years ago my townhome had gone up almost 300% in value.

There is an HOA fee, but mine included a pool, clubhouse, private park, and also front yard maintenance - I never had to mow my front lawn. :)

Arti, have you considered a townhome? Two of the four homes I have owned were townhomes. Both were end units so I only shared one wall. They had small yards, but that was easier for me to maintain by myself. They also appreciated just like a detached house. When the market skyrocketed a few years ago my townhome had gone up almost 300% in value.

There is an HOA fee, but mine included a pool, clubhouse, private park, and also front yard maintenance - I never had to mow my front lawn. :)I have somewhat. Still, the same HOA issues (except I get a yard as opposed to with a condo). Location-wise, I'd like to be in the city, relatively near downtown by bus, lightrail, or bike, and for a townhouse I would have to be out in the burbs.

Don't buy a condo. Rent if you want & save the funds. Sounds like a condo would be a "for now" solution - but if it's going to cost you that much extra per month, you might as well just sock the extra away for a down payment later.

+ like, infinity, dood....

We have bought and sold a few houses in a few states, so I know
a little about it. We recently got burned for a few thousand on a condo
deal that related to the HOA.....
I hated condo and condo lifestyle to begin with and am really sorry
we fell for the 'investment' crap we did. Im normally not that stupid.
Where we got burned is that there are obscure laws in Florida, the
scammer capitol of the world, that protect shady realtors and Condo
Kompounds from being upfront with all the dues and restrictions unless
you go to the association and interview them personally. I dont know
what the law is where you are, but if you do the HOA thing, carefully
research what you are getting in to. They can ruin your life expensively.
I would sleep in a box before I gave money to a condo association, ever.

Good luck whatever you decide !:thumb:

+1
Housing is like the stock market we would like to get in at the bottom and out at the top. Unfortunately no one is able to predict things to that level.

yes. plus you don't live in a stock you own and want to sell...a home can be a great investment - as Jsharr said, it;s nice that after 11 yrs their investment has doubled (it'd be nice to find a stock that will do that!)...but with your primary residence, the priority should be do you love it, and love where it's located?

I might consider buying a condo now if you think you could rent it out later and cover your mortgage with $ to spare.

Rent until you can find a good home is what I say.

The good about condos:


They may be in a good location.
They are inexpensive compared to a house.
No lawn to worry about.


The bad:

HOA fees can go up at anytime, if people decide that they want a new baby pool, or a new vend a goat machine by the condo's entrance. And fees can spike sharply.

Very nosy neighbors looking for anyone who is violating anything on the contract.

Because you have neighbors so close, you can't really do stuff like have a jam night.

Parking is usually gimpalicious. You might get one place for your car, perhaps two. And who knows where it may be.

If the plumbing sucks, you can't just say "to hell with this" and rip it all out.

No privacy.


Personally, if I were to do it all over again, I would have not bought a condo as a primary residence. A secondary place close to town, maybe. But as a primary place, its "meh" at best.

As RUOkie said, there's nothing wrong with renting. If you're lucky, you can find a really sweet complex with decent amenities at a price cheaper than getting in on a condo + the association fees.

The place we're in now (rental) has a pool, gym, hot tub, tanning, we're right off a bunch of hiking trails and walking/cycling distance from a couple of shopping plazas including a grocery store. The buildings are green-designed (high factor insulation, good windows, energy/water saver appliances) the grounds are well maintained, and they just implemented a front-door nightly trash/recycling pickup. We're paying less than many of our friends who bought houses/condos which are smaller square footage.

Where we got burned is that there are obscure laws in Florida, the
scammer capitol of the world, that protect shady realtors and Condo
Kompounds from being upfront with all the dues and restrictions unless
you go to the association and interview them personally.

Great book here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0449207374/ref=dp_olp_used?)!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0449207374.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Talk to your real estate professional. Look at market history. Can you really build equity? Watched a program on first time buyers last night. Single, male professional, bought a condo. His rental expense in the Lincoln Park area of Chicago was around $1300. Bought a condo a few miles away, monthly living expense went to around $2200 for comparable space with all fees, taxes HOA dues etc. factored in. You could build up a nice nest egg if you saved $900 per month for a year or tow and would not be tied down to a mortgage.Exactly! I continued to rent for 10-years after I could've bought a place. I wanted to save on my monthly expenses and save up as much as I could. I was putting away thousands a month due to rents being cheaper than mortgage on a comparable place. After 10-years of savings and investing, I was able buy my place for cash. No free money to grubby bankers! However, my property taxes are now higher than what I used to pay in rent! :(

For the OP, I would look at what your 20-30 year plans are. If you listen to all the "long-term, ride-it-out" philosophies, you gotta be living in your purchased home for at least 20-years to ride out one real-estate cycle (about every 13-15 years). Even then, it's a difficult ride. It took 10-years for the home-prices of the late '80s to break-even after the recession of the early '90s. And break-even given inflation means your home is actually only worth 1/2 the purchasing power in cash due to inflation. So you'd have to hang onto it for another 10-years to really break even (when the price doubles). Although right now, prices are pretty darn low, but I don't see them recovering for another 2-5 years. Graph foreclosure rates versus time and it'll tell you when you've hit bottom, we've haven't even come close yet as there's still a huge inventory of surplus and forfeited homes that still have to be sold off.

If you don't plan on staying in a place for 20-years, then just rent and stick all that extra money away in savings and invest it wisely. Professional money-managers are worth their weight in gold. Stockbrokers needs to be dropped into the ocean with an equivalent weight in concrete around their ankles. ;)

With the US real estate market in distress over the last while, buying a home today may make a lot of long-term sense. Unless you happen to live in one of those areas not affected by the downturn.

We bought our home with the assumption it likely was going to be a poor investment. Prices had been going up for quite a few years before we purchased our current home. Our reason for purchasing our home vs renting was based on a lifestyle decision. We both want to live in a space which is customized to our own preferences. We would feel too constricted in a rental. It allows us to make changes to our home and yard without asking permission first from a landlord.

As it turns out, if we sold our home today, we would be up approx 200% over 7 years. Definitely better than the average stock portfolio over the same period. Yes, like any investment it can just as easily go back down.

I'm happy that I bought a condo. Yes, there are HOA fees and some quirky rules (nothing too Draconion where I'm at). However, that HOA fee covers a lot of things for me--pool upkeep, roofing, insurance, water, sewage, trash pick-up, grounds maintenance, asphalt repair/maintenance, etc. I don't have to deal with any of those bills. It's all covered in my HOA fees. Plus, I don't have to deal with yardwork, cleaning a pool, etc.

...Not to mention the fact that many people in houses still have to deal with neighborhood HOA's. They get all the rules and few of the benefits that I get.

As for timing, they say not to buy unless you're prepared to stick it out for about 10 years. However, in terms of market timing, this is one of the best times ever to buy in most places. Not sure how the Minnesota market is, though.

I live in OC. My wife and I both have career jobs. Oi doubt we will ever be able to afford a single family home. That's why we own a condo.

I've lived in a condo for 10 years, and served on the HOA board. My particular experience has been pretty good, my condo is still worth 50% more than I paid for it even after the downturn in real estate prices.

That said, I'm not sure I would buy a condo in your situation- I agree that at 25, there's a significant chance your lifestyle may outgrow it in a few years. That wouldn't have been a problem before the recent downturn, as you could have sold it with a decent profit in most areas after only a few years. In the current real estate climate, though, that's not likely and you may not break even after the cost of selling (commission, etc) unless you think you might be holding onto it longer than that.

Condos are a good option for some people, and terrible for others. I travel frequently, sometimes on short notice, and don't want to worry about a yard or an obviously empty house while I'm gone. As stated above, there are many restrictions on what you can do while living there, and some associations are now limiting the owner's ability to rent a condo to protect the value of the complex as a whole. On the plus side, some states are now cracking down on HOA finances, requiring annual audits and setting minimum requirements for cash reserves to limit the exposure of individual homeowners to special assessments.

I own a condo (3rd floor) and have major ownership in a townhouse. I much prefer the townhouse; you get the same benefits of collective ownership as a condo without the hassles and potential liabilities of shared walls. Townhouses are usually more expensive, though.

When buying a condo, as with any real estate purchase, it's best to know what you're getting into ahead of time.
If I were to buy another one now, I'd sit in on one of the HOA meetings (if it's allowed) ahead of time to get an idea of how satisfied the homeowners are with the HOA and life there in general. Lots of angry homeowners = don't buy there.

When buying a condo, as with any real estate purchase, it's best to know what you're getting into ahead of time.
If I were to buy another one now, I'd sit in on one of the HOA meetings (if it's allowed) ahead of time to get an idea of how satisfied the homeowners are with the HOA and life there in general. Lots of angry homeowners = don't buy there.great advice, rnorris. I really like this idea- and something I would not have thought to ask about.

I did find one townhouse on an open house where the realtor was the owner's sister. The sister bought into the complex when she was also 25, has lived there for 10 years, and has had a great experience with the HOA (I was expressing my concerns about a previous HOA I rented in, of retirees AND self-managed. It was a mess). She said the complex is a good mix, but a healthy population of young professionals. Its nice to get a little inside scoop, and that subdivision is still on my 'maybe' list, although I am really not thinking a townhouse in the burbs is the right place for me ATM.

mobile home>condo

we *my brother an i* pay ALL our bils + lot fee for what condo owners pay for the HOA.

You can ask for HOA rules and emails in last year or so, to see what they are up to and the personalities within the HOA.


Condos aren't bad. Like anything now-days, they might reap a profit for you. They might not. Depends on your market. Twin Cities: definitely the home-owner type market. San Fran: a condo would rock (esp during an earthquake). YMMV.

If you are absolutely sure that you are going to need a house in 3-5 years, then, a) rent for now or live with mom and get a room when needed, save every penny and enjoy the maintenance-free, train anytime you want, lifestyle. Otherwise, buy now and hope for the best.

BTW, 25 yrs old? Spare me. BTW, I spent almost that with a new roof and exterior paint job and huge tree removal and .... you get the picture.

You are still young so stay at home and save for as long as you can. If there are cheap REO homes in your area that need a little rehabbing, buy one, fix it up and sell it. Chances are the house has a little equity in it already. The little money you make can be put down on a house that you feel you will stay in for some time.
I think condos are good if you have other property and are making a great deal of money on them. Paying HOA fees is a waste of money given that you will not be using the pool daily or whatever else is offered and as previous stated, can go up at any time. Another thing to consider about a condo is that if you still owe on it and decide to rent it out, it will take much longer to make any money on it because you have to pay the HOA. Not a very good deal.
I own two homes now, one recently purchased in a very low income area which was dirt cheap. So cheap I paid cash for it. I will be able to make my money back in less than 5 years but if I don't want to deal with the tenants, I can sell it right away. At this point, the house has at least $20k equity and I haven't rented it out yet.

Get an RV. You can change locales without ever having to bother with packing/unpacking.

If you buy, you get some tax breaks, but are totally responsible for any and all upkeep. You have no control over your neighbors. Harder to sell without taking a loss if the area becomes undesirable due to crime/economy.

Renting won't build equity, but does allow you to relocate easier if the neighborhood becomes too rough for you.

No WAY, no HOW, in THE HOT PLACE, would I rent, much less buy, where your f'n neighbors can tell you how to live. The city's bad enough (although I can understand firetraps/health hazards, etc.) with their picayune rules/codes (example: where I live, even if your yard is fenced, you cannot have a dog secured within 3 feet of the property line. Also, no dogs are allowed to be outside after 11:30 PM, for ANY reason. Neither can they be outside if you are not home.). No group of self-righteous homeowners are gonna tell me what I can and can't do with MY property. Neighborhood associations should be BANNED.

mobile home>condo

Not.

I did the mobile home route many years ago. They depreciate much more quickly than condos. Plus, I had yard work. Plus, the utility bills were outrageous. Plus, I was responsible for the leak in my roof.

Personally, I like the idea of a townhome. Garage with a small yard and less maintenance than my current dump of a house. Except the living next to people part.