Advocacy & Safety - Bicyclist kills girl in a case of road rage

Probably not a typical bicyclist enthusiast:

snipped article:
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Conley, who was three months pregnant, had been at a friend's house and was heading home with a group of friends shortly before 2:30 a.m. when the vehicle in which she was riding cut off a bicyclist heading east on W. Keefe Ave., police said.

Passengers riding with her spotted the bicyclist in the rear-view mirror while stopped at a traffic light at N. 5th St. and W. Keefe Ave. They told police that he began shouting at them, pulled out a gun and fired shots at the back of the car before riding off.
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jul04/245117.asp?source=tmj4

Wow. Talk about conflicting emotions...

That is a tough situation. The bicyclist probably didn't have lights on his bike, it was very dark, he was dark and maybe wearing dark clothes. The driver probably didn't mean to cut off the bicyclist, but that is no excuse for road rage. Chances are the bicyclist won't even be found. After all, how many black men in Milwaukee ride mountain bikes? My condolences go out to the girl and her family.

Sounds like the cyclists killed by bus thread all over again :P

Teenagers at 2:30 am? I wouldn't be surprised if they did cut him off. I've had beer cans thrown at me from opposing traffic at 10pm.

wow! there is just nothing wholesome in that news article: teenager's out at 2:30am, a 15 years old who is pregnant, a guy riding around with a loaded gun.

Teenagers at 2:30 am? I wouldn't be surprised if they did cut him off. I've had beer cans thrown at me from opposing traffic at 10pm.

Moreover, a teen (15), pregnant, and out at 2:30 am.......where are the parents?


Low life drug dealers should be put to death (an accurate assumption, imo).

Sounds like the cyclists killed by bus thread all over again :P

Thats what I was thinking we just have to find a good thing to start arguing about... :)

That suspect isn't a cyclist; he's a thug on a bike. Big difference.

That suspect isn't a cyclist; he's a thug on a bike. Big difference.

So a person driving a car who runs over someone isn't a driver, they're a thug in a car?

wow! there is just nothing wholesome in that news article: teenager's out at 2:30am, a 15 years old who is pregnant, a guy riding around with a loaded gun.

Sounds like a routine police stop in NYC.

So a person driving a car who runs over someone isn't a driver, they're a thug in a car?

Possibly. If intentional, yes.

are you saying he's a thug because he's black?

are you saying he's a thug because he's black?

I'm saying he's a thug because he shot and killed a human being.

Now, Ryan, may I ask you how your mind leapt to the supposed connection between race and thuggishness?

are you saying he's a thug because he's black?

Why would you think that, are you a racist?

wow! there is just nothing wholesome in that news article: teenager's out at 2:30am, a 15 years old who is pregnant, a guy riding around with a loaded gun.

That is my reaction, as well. There is plenty of culpability to go around.

Why would you think that, are you a racist?

No im not racist, but thugs are more commonly black people. And so I am just wondering why you jumped to the conclusion hes a thug..? Or one said a drug dealer.. Perhaps he was a black male on his bike, who happend to be carrying a gun, and anger got carried away.. Black people do ride bikes, and carry guns doesn't mean there a thug.

That suspect isn't a cyclist; he's a thug on a bike. Big difference.

Anyone on a two wheeled bike is considered a cyclist. I doubt he was a thug, unless he was gonna kill, then rob the girl.

No im not racist, but thugs are more commonly black people. And so I am just wondering why you jumped to the conclusion hes a thug..? Or one said a drug dealer.. Perhaps he was a black male on his bike, who happend to be carrying a gun, and anger got carried away.. Black people do ride bikes, and carry guns doesn't mean there a thug.

I cannot believe what I am reading. No mater what that girl did not deserve to die because of what happen. People who carry guns are not necesarlly thugs, people who use them like that are.

Not racist then explain this....


but thugs are more commonly black people.

how the hell did we get on the race thing? oh, sorry. didn't read the whole story. hmmm...

I cannot believe what I am reading. No mater what that girl did not deserve to die because of what happen. People who carry guns are not necesarlly thugs, people who use them like that are.

Not racist then explain this....

i belieive he is referring to the hip-hop usage of the word, which has been appropriated as a self-descriptor by quite a few black men. it's certainly less offensive to my ears than another self-descriptor which i can go without saying here. in any case, being a black male, the kinds of black guys i see riding around on a bike at 2.30 in the morning are not the people i'd wanna cut off. hell, i wouldn't f--- with anybody at 2.30 in the morning around here. you never know... but yeah, lots of lower-class folks ride bikes, but i wouldn't call them cyclists by any stretch. they do it for transportation, not because they want to. i'd also like to add, if he'd been driving or a passenger in a car in the same incident, you probably would've gotten the same result.

No im not racist, but thugs are more commonly black people. And so I am just wondering why you jumped to the conclusion hes a thug..? Or one said a drug dealer.. Perhaps he was a black male on his bike, who happend to be carrying a gun, and anger got carried away.. Black people do ride bikes, and carry guns doesn't mean there a thug.

A lot of people safely assume in a non-offensive way that most asian cuisine and chinese take out restaurants are owned and operated by asian people, mostly chinese. But you're starting to wander into some dangerous territory there, Ryan, unless you have some overwhelming evidence to back what you're saying.

I cannot believe what I am reading. No mater what that girl did not deserve to die because of what happen. People who carry guns are not necesarlly thugs, people who use them like that are.

Not racist then explain this....

Well most thugs are black. Most mafia is italian. Most rednecks are white.

Why would you think that, are you a racist?
See his comment about needing something to fight about. It was a joke. And an amusing one.

Uhhhhh, I think some people need to check themselves here.

Anyone who thinks that a passenger sitting in the seat of a car is somehow culpable or worthy of blame for their own murder just because of their age or the time of day that the event took place has lost their perspective on reality.

Well most thugs are black. Most mafia is italian. Most rednecks are white.

My girlfriend takes offense to that comment. Her family hasn't been related to the mafia for ages and I'm not getting any kick backs either.

I stand by my original comment but I'm unsubscribing from this thread. I can't see it getting back to anything resembling a constructive discussion.

My girlfriend takes offense to that comment. Her family hasn't been related to the mafia for ages and I'm not getting any kick backs either.

Well tell your girlfriend to get over it.. I am too italian and it doesn't offend me. I didn't say all italians were mafia I said most mafia are italian. Get over it

I think y'all have been successfully trolled, here.

Uhhhhh, I think some people need to check themselves here.

Anyone who thinks that a passenger sitting in the seat of a car is somehow culbable or worthy of blame for their own murder just because of their age or the time of day that the event took place has lost their perspective on reality.

That is messed up, especially the comment about wheres her parents...

I still think Ryan was having fun, but it occurs to me that we might have a language problem here.
Thug, the way it is used by some younger folks, refers more to "thug life", which is associated with hip-hop, and with black people. Maybe that's what he meant.

BTW-Most mafia people are Italian. It's a requirement to get in. That is not the same thing as saying most Italians are in the mafia. Most(all?) triads are Asian. Few Asians are triads.

I heard about this on the news and read about it in the Journal the other day. It's really sad. I guess you really need to watch where you are driving because even bikers pack guns. To Quote the Wizzard of Oz, "What a world, what a world."

We also had some bozo stretch shrinkwrap across a road the other day and a motorcyclist ran into it and crashed. Come on people the roads are dangerous enough without all the crazies.

I still think Ryan was having fun, but it occurs to me that we might have a language problem here.
Thug, the way it is used by some younger folks, refers more to "thug life", which is associated with hip-hop, and with black people. Maybe that's what he meant.

BTW-Most mafia people are Italian. It's a requirement to get in. That is not the same thing as saying most Italians are in the mafia. Most(all?) triads are Asian. Few Asians are triads.

Well that kills my hopes of ever getting into the mafia. Triad doesn't sound as cool

Well most thugs are black. Most mafia is italian. Most rednecks are white.

..and most trolls are named Ryan. :eek:

..and most trolls are named Ryan. :eek:
I'm starting to see that too. He certainly doesn't know how to pick his battles.

Damn straight Don!

As a high school teacher I've seen way too many teen-agers find themselves in "trouble" (both literal and figuratively). It is disappointing and even depressing but to even minimally shift the blame towards the victim in this case is outrageous. We know nothing about the girl except that she was needlesly killed. Tragically that's all we'll ever have a chance to know.

Well tell your girlfriend to get over it.. I am too italian and it doesn't offend me. I didn't say all italians were mafia I said most mafia are italian. Get over it

just ignore Ryan- he is just winding every one up - next thing he will be telling us his Dad is a profiler lol

Hey guys guess what... My dad is a profiler!! LOL

Moreover, a teen (15), pregnant, and out at 2:30 am.......where are the parents


Hmmm, out at 2:30--probably why she got pregnant. I agree, where are the parents

That being said it is a sad situation I wouldn't wish on anyone.

So a person driving a car who runs over someone isn't a driver, they're a thug in a car? The difference, of course, is that one can run over someone with a car simply out of negligence. This shooting involved obvious intent. Killing someone intentionally makes him a thug.

I did find it interesting that the headline was "Bicyclist kills...". His use of a bicycle, as far as I could tell, was not a factor in the shooting (other than the fact that it was road rage). It's about as meaningful as saying "Guy with sandwich in his pocket kills...".

I wonder if he was attempting to kill somebody purposely, or wanted to just shoot out the back window and scare them. However I don't not how he can live with himself killing a pregnant lady.

Damn straight Don!

As a high school teacher I've seen way too many teen-agers find themselves in "trouble" (both literal and figuratively). It is disappointing and even depressing but to even minimally shift the blame towards the victim in this case is outrageous. We know nothing about the girl except that she was needlesly killed. Tragically that's all we'll ever have a chance to know.

I agree- I find it very strange the way some posts in this thread appear to put murder of an expectant mother and her unborn child on the same level as staying out late and/or teenage pregnancy and/or being a passenger in car that allegedly cuts off a cyclist!!!! as if it is justifiable to murder someone because we disapprove of their life choices -if it was there would not be many of us left

Damn straight Don!

As a high school teacher I've seen way too many teen-agers find themselves in "trouble" (both literal and figuratively). It is disappointing and even depressing but to even minimally shift the blame towards the victim in this case is outrageous. We know nothing about the girl except that she was needlesly killed. Tragically that's all we'll ever have a chance to know.

I fail to see where anyone blamed the parents or the victim, to read more into what is posted is an assumptive leap. My comments on the circumstances of the murder was intended to illustrate how a series of poor decisions lead to the girl's death. Which otherwise could have been avoided if normal parenting practices and curfew laws had been employed.

As a co-educator, I'm not sure how many student's funerals you've attended. Of the half dozen I've attended they were all senseless deaths that were avoidable had the students obeyed the law and listen to parents and teachers.

I agree- I find it very strange the way some posts in this thread appear to put murder of an expectant mother and her unborn child on the same level as staying out late and/or teenage pregnancy and/or being a passenger in car that allegedly cuts off a cyclist!!!! as if it is justifiable to murder someone because we disapprove of their life choices -if it was there would not be many of us left

Once again, nobody said it was on the same level. However, if the girl was home in bed (where should should have been) this would not have happened. This young girls death, a minor child, who is in the care of an adult should not have been out on the street, period.

I fail to see where anyone blamed the parents or the victim, to read more into what is posted is an assumptive leap. My comments on the circumstances of the murder was intended to illustrate how a series of poor decisions lead to the girl's death. Which otherwise could have been avoided if normal parenting practices and curfew laws had been employed.

As a co-educator, I'm not sure how many student's funerals you've attended. Of the half dozen I've attended they were all senseless deaths that were avoidable had the students obeyed the law and listen to parents and teachers.

........

I have been to a few and they were either tragic accidents or the results of youthful indiscretion. You are deluding yourself if you don't think that the overall trend of this thread seems to be shifting at least some of the blame to the girl.

It's obvious, even though we never knew her, that she had made some poor choices during her short life. It's also a real possibility that her parents aren't/weren't the best either. I dispute none of that but still object to the overall tone of many posts. Whether she should have been there or not does nothing to minimize the enormity of the crime. Bad choices or no she was still just a kid and did nothing "to deserve" this.

Hey guys guess what... My dad is a profiler!! LOL
More about your dad? First he was an accident reconstructor now he's a profiler too? Jeeze. What next going to bust out the uncle, aunt, sister, brother, mother, neice, grandparents?


Well most thugs are black. Most mafia is italian. Most rednecks are white.
Stereotypes are perpetuated by ignorant people like you.

Once again, nobody said it was on the same level. However, if the girl was home in bed (where should should have been) this would not have happened. This young girls death, a minor child, who is in the care of an adult should not have been out on the street, period.


agreed. there were many factors in this story that did not make me feel the same outrage as i would have, say, if she were in her home and a stray bullet came through the window randomly and killed her. i still think it's a horrible tradedgy of course, but the bottom line is, it's risky to be out at 2:30am with friends. people usually aren't out for the best of reasons at that hour.

I fail to see where anyone blames the parents or the victim.
Maybe you missed this post:



That is my reaction, as well. There is plenty of culpability to go around.
Culpability means worthy of blame.

This was posted in response to someones post saying that there was nothing wholesome in the article including teenagers out at 2:30am, a pregnant 15 yr old girl, and a guy with a loaded gun.

FWIW:

I have held a job since I was 14. When I was 14, I worked for an Italian restaurant/bar that was open till 2:30am. It was not unusual for me to get home around the closing time of the bar on Fri and Sat nights, non school nights. In my senior year of high school, I was night manager of a gas station and closed the station at 12:00 midnight. I did the paper work and checked out the books before going home. I often didn't get home till 1:00am. I worked 40 hrs a week and made the Dean's List at school. Their was nothing unwholesome about my being out at that time.

I also thank fate that my curiosity about sex did not end up in an underage pregnancy and the resulting complications.

While I agree that most of us would be better served having been in some different place at some time in our lives, to suggest that this girl is somehow culpable is simply reckless and irresponsible.

More about your dad? First he was an accident reconstructor now he's a profiler too? Jeeze. What next going to bust out the uncle, aunt, sister, brother, mother, neice, grandparents?


Stereotypes are perpetuated by ignorant people like you.

It was a joke dumbass

Maybe you missed this post:



Culpability means worthy of blame.

This was posted in response to someones post saying that there was nothing wholesome in the article including teenagers out at 2:30am, a pregnant 15 yr old girl, and a guy with a loaded gun.

FWIW:

I have held a job since I was 14. When I was 14, I worked for an Italian restaurant/bar that was open till 2:30am. It was not unusual for me to get home around the closing time of the bar on Fri and Sat nights, non school nights. In my senior year of high school, I was night manager of a gas station and closed the station at 12:00 midnight. I did the paper work and checked out the books before going home. I often didn't get home till 1:00am. I worked 40 hrs a week and made the Dean's List at school. Their was nothing unwholesome about my being out at that time.

I also thank fate that my curiosity about sex did not end up in an underage pregnancy and the resulting complications.

While I agree that most of us would be better served having been in some different place at some time in our lives, to suggest that this girl is somehow culpable is simply reckless and irresponsible.


in your above post i would still think your position in being out that late, closing up a gas station, etc... would put you at greater risk of being the victim of a crime. everyone has a right to be out however late they want, it's a free country (sort of), but you have to acknowledge the risks that come with that. i mean, i have the right to tape $20 bills all over my body and walk through the slums at 2:30am. but is that a safe decision to make? even though i'm not doing anything wrong, i would expect to be beaten to my death if i did that.