Fifty Plus (50+) - I really stink at Hill Climbing, Is at a 50+ Thing?

I'm posting this on the 50+ to see if this is a age thing or something else. I really stink at climbing hills. I've just had two extreme events happen that tell me something is wrong and I'm not correcting it. The two events are:
I just completed a 100 mile MS ride with my club at an average speed of 18.9MPH on a very flat course. I did four pulls on that ride. I followed that with a nice 50 miler the next day, no problems.
On the following Tuesday I did a 30 miler with another club on very hilly terrain. On a 1 mile hill I got dropped by the entire group (17-18MPH group). I was so pissed off about this that when I finally passed the next to the last rider, I told her to hop on and started a pull that lasted about a mile and a half, passed the entire group and finished with a half mile at 21 MPH. I'm a fairly decent flatlander but brother do I stink at hills. So what's the problem? I've spent many Tuesday and Thursday nights riding with groups on hilly routes just to improve my hill riding. All I've got to show for it is a loss of 30lbs (that's good) and a slightly better brand of being lousy on hills. What's the secret to hill climbing?
EDIT: My problem is not muscle soreness but running out of breath.

Hills and flats make entirely different demands on the body. There's nothing I can do riding in the flats that will help me climb. I need regular, consistent training on both.

So my advice: To get better at hills, ride more hills.

EDIT: And pay attention to how you're breathing. I found that I when I had to apply lots of power to climb, I held my breath. Not good. I had to learn how to keep breathing, steadily and deeply, while applying power.

Yes.

Unless you're jppe or hermes or one of those other body nazis.

Lose another 30 lbs.

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Hills are what seperates the men from the boys - so to speak. It is a complicated mix of a bunch of skills, strength, aerobic fitness, but I think mostly it's about mental toughness and the ability to ignore pain.

I too suck at hills, two years ago a bought a lighter stiffer bike, did not help. Last year a droped a bunch of weight (I was 10lbs lighter than I am now) and I still sucked. This season I focused less on weight loss and more on strength, I choose Wed nights to go out and tackle the ugliest hills I could find in my area. I drove my car to the base and just went up and down and up and down on the bike until I could not do it anymore. On some hills (some in excess of 18% grade) I would grind to a total stop with sweat pooring out of my helmet and feeling like I was going to barf up my heart. I did this alone, no group pressure - just me against the hills. All of this helped a lot, it improved my mental toughness, strength and ability to deal with the pain. I got better when I rode with the club rides, I knew I could go up and over steeper hills and there was light at the end of the tunnel. Today I still can't stay with the really good riders, but I can now climb better than most of the B riders in our club where as before I was always the last one up the hill. Next season I plan to start this training earlier so that hopefully by the end of the season I am able to hang better with the B+ riders.

I am sure some of our elite 50+ members can help you even more, but I think the thrust will be the same - hills take training and it isn't fun until you get some minimum level of competence.

I have trained hills rather consistently for the last 3 years and I am quite a bit better at climbing now. Find a long hill near you and do it twice a week. Here we only have shorter ones so I do one of them twice in one session. By long I mean something that takes 40-60 minutes to get up at training speed.
I also do a lot of forestroad CX-riding that involves a lot of hills.
Teach yourself to enjoy riding uphill !

In hilly Asheville everybody gets climbing practice everyday. I think you've become a product of your less hilly environment. In lieu of moving closer to the Appalachians, maybe some weight training? Good luck.

I feel like I've lost a lot of speed on the hills in the last year while my flats have gotten stronger. I can't figure out why either. Take yesterday's ride. I was able to climb with a low HR and easy breathing but just couldn't find the strength to push a bigger gear. That's how it's been for me lately. I'm using smaller gears and going slower. Fighting a chest cold didn't help but it seems like a greater issue than that. Maybe I'm just stale from doing so much climbing.

Climbing is power to weight. But I find it is so much more than that. Sure, if the hill is short then it is simply P/W but as the climb lengthens it is mental, core strength and muscle endurance. One thing I haven't done this year is get to the gym. That will be priority one this winter.

But reality is, I've never been one of the fast guys. I don't know how they do what they do. I've tried everything to get there and never really closed the gap. I've about come to the realization that it is genetic. Not that the faster guys are genetic freaks but that I seem to lack something. It has been frustrating. Even my coaches were at a loss because I did everything they asked. Bottom line though, I still love to ride my bike.

But to address the OP's question, it does sound like hill repeats will help. Weight loss almost always helps. If you can pull with that group on the flats and even pull away then it really seems like a P/W issue on the hills. Also, try to relax on the climbs. Use only the muscles needed to move the bike, anything else just burns energy needlessly. Breathe. I often find, especially when using a powermeter, that the group really goes very fast at the base of the climb only to drop back later. I often let them go staying at threshold then slowly reel them in as they slow. Of course the length of the hill is a factor. Shorter hills you just have to power over.

To climb hill you must have climbed many more hills.

Climbing is a power to weight ratio thing further complicated with aerobic limitations. The more efficient your body is at climbing, the better your body can keep up with O2 uptake and lactic acid. The other issue is power to weight. I am a fairly heavy body type (mesomorph), so I will allways suffer on the hills. I live in North GA so I will allways be riding them. I have large strong legs, I can turn many into rollers, but the long extended climbs belong to the smaller, lighter guys with lots of climbing in their legs.

I live off of a Road called Ridge Road. It's called that for a reason. When I leave my neighborhood, or when I am trying to come back, there will be hills. I have to climb a 12%+ hill to get out of my subdivision. There is not a 1/2 mile flat stretch of road within 10 miles of where I live. I can climb, but it's not pretty.

I agree with pretty much what everyone said. I would only add that strong legs are efficient legs. Squats, deadlifts, straight legged deadlifts. Get a 12-16 foot long piece of medium size surgical latex tubing from a medical supply house. For a couple weeks do squats and deadlifts (there are videos on the net that show how to do them safely) and then after you can do a couple sets of 14 add the tubing.
Then double up the tubing, then buy another and heavier tube and use that. Etc.

Alternatively you can go to the gym.

I have to ride hills and flatlands are for wimps. Saying that-I am slow on the flat bits and even slower up hills.

Practice does not make hills any easier- it just takes less time to climb them.

Try mixing up your technique. On my ride today I decided to stay out of the small ring (on a triple) but also keep my HR down below 145. Note that I usually "spin" my way up the hils. Had to focus on keeping good technique and pedalling as efficiently as possible. It was a completely different feeling and different muscles being used. Or maybe the same muscles used differently.

One thing I do know, everyone's idea of a hill is different and no two hills are the same.

What's the secret to hill climbing?
EDIT: My problem is not muscle soreness but running out of breath.

Cadence.----- If you are trying to keep to a particular cadence then hills will cause a problem.

If you are going up hills (Or on the flat) at a fast pace and the legs ache- then change to a lower gear to take the strain off them. If you are running out of breath then change to a higher gear to take the starin off the lungs.

And if you are running out of breath and the legs are killing you---Slow down.

Amen. That is as succinct as it gets.


Cadence.----- If you are trying to keep to a particular cadence then hills will cause a problem.

If you are going up hills (Or on the flat) at a fast pace and the legs ache- then change to a lower gear to take the strain off them. If you are running out of breath then change to a higher gear to take the starin off the lungs.

And if you are running out of breath and the legs are killing you---Slow down.

I'm a fairly decent flatlander but brother do I stink at hills.

I got Joe Friel's book, "Cycling after 50," recently, but haven't read it. I did notice there was a quiz in the book to help you figure out what kind of rider you are - endurance, sprinter, hill climber, etc.

On the "hill climber" quiz, the first question was: "Are you significantly thinner than most of the people you ride with?"

BTW, if you're averaging 19 mph on long rides on flat courses, I'd be surprised if you're really "lousy" at hills. I think you're just slower than whatever person/group you're comparing yourself with.

Yes, it is a 50+ thing;
I could climb like Tom Danielson, were it not for the fact I am 50+ pounds heavier than him.:(

Yes, it is a 50+ thing;
I could climb like Tom Danielson, were it not for the fact I am 50+ pounds heavier than him.:(

:roflmao2::cry::roflmao2:

^^^ What he said. We all have our illusions of grandeur.

I used to have problems with my schwinn curiser 7 speed It had 14/28 gears in the back changed out to 12/34 and that helped a lot it was when I went from a black wall tires to white wall Directionally tires and went to a 32 lbs to a 55 tire pressure These two upgades did make my cruiser a way faster bike
I now have no problems going up hills and have more fun keeping up with the racing bike’s and some times blowing them away with a cruiser bike

A moderate hill climb, such as a long, steady 7 or 8 percent grade, is my favorite type of cycling. Uphill I can hold my own against some of the guys who can drop me on the flats, particularly against a headwind. Pace yourself, gear appropriately, and practice. I find it helpful to alternate between standing and sitting.

To climb hill you must have climbed many more hills.

Simple, but true. Two years ago, when I started to get more serious (structured training), I not only stunk at climbing, but actually tried to avoid it. The coach who was helping me with my training told me after I finished the RAIN ride in 2007 in 8hrs. that I could likely do any mountain ride in this area I wanted. Didn't believe him.

In 2008, without a coach, I trained with the goal of riding Assault on Mt. Mitchell and did it. Besides all the usual things we read about in the forum, it was just going out and climbing, pure and simple. Yes, you have to push yourself sometimes, but the act of doing it weekend after weekend, and doing hill repeats 15x on a short climb known around here by the locals as "The Wall" during the week did the trick.

Am I a great climber, nope. Am I afraid of doing climbing events, nope. Now I look forward to the climb for the challenge, and hope they make me better, stronger, and smarter in my technique. A friend recently sent me a link to details about the "Death Ride" in California as a bit of a joke. After I went to the site and read about it, I sent him back "I could do this..." Probably means I'm crazy.

OP - I realize you live in NC, but how does anyone ride up a "hill" at 17-18mph? By California standards, that's not legally definable as a hill. :rolleyes:

On a more serious note:

"I've spent many Tuesday and Thursday nights riding with groups on hilly route [snip]. All I've got to show for it is a loss of 30lbs (that's good) and a slightly better brand of being lousy on hills. What's the secret to hill climbing?"

Assuming the others you ride with are about your age, and assuming you're lean, then yes, you have a problem if you're the last person up the hill after all your training.

Do you know, though, how much hill climbing these other club members do, in comparison to you? The same, less, more?

"My problem is [snip] running out of breath"

1) Are you observing what gears/cadence other riders are using, those who are faster than you are up the hills? Are you trying different combinations to see what happens?

I think looking at what others do would yield better results than asking us, since we have a rather limited knowledge concerning your skills, especially compared to those you ride with.

2) Are you asking your fellow riders what you might do to improve your climbing skills? Again, that would seem a better way to go than asking us, if you haven't already done so.

3) Consider a climbing camp (http://www.trainright.com/camps.asp?uid=3006). This link is for one held in NC.

Here's another climbing camp (http://tr.nelson.co.nz/climbing_camp.htm), in November - if you'd like to travel to New Zealand!

From the web page:

Climbing/Descending Camp : : November 20th - 22nd 2009 Auckland New Zealand

Are you frustrated and tired of getting left behind on the climbs?
Have you considered it might be possible to go faster with your current fitness level?"

I find this post pretty interesting. In a nutshell, I love climbs. I have lots walk me on the flats, and I purely crush their souls on the climbs. Maybe it's also a mental thing? I'm by no means high level competitive

Seriously though... There's absolutely nothing I love more than killing that kitted out guy on his carbon fiber or unobtainium bike and saying "how ya doin?" as I go by. Oh, theyll pass me on the downhill or the next long flat, but I get my satisfaction where I can...

Thanks for all the great replies. I've added two training rides that include a lot of hills. I've tried attacking them, riding them, using cadence, while there is some improvement in muscle tone this year, but running out of oxygen is still a problem. I've tried hard breathing at the start of each hill, but that's not working out.
I like the idea of a riding camp, too bad there isn't one this year.
I was wondering if anyone has tried the Oxygen enhancing medications with any success, since that did not come up, I'm guessing the answer is no.



BTW, if you're averaging 19 mph on long rides on flat courses, I'd be surprised if you're really "lousy" at hills. I think you're just slower than whatever person/group you're comparing yourself with.

That's a good point. The group I'm referring to rides at 17-18 on a very hilly route, thats a pretty stout ride. The two faster rides travel at 20 and 23 respectively, but use a flatter route. I'm staying with the hill riding group to build my hill capabilities.
Again, thanks for the replies.

I'm 61. I don't race (except Walter Mitty Racing :) , but enjoy climbing hills. I rarely get out of the saddle, but I'm starting to, especially if the hill is short or just to rest my numb butt.

When I do get out of the saddle on a hill, I need to switch to a much higher gear. I assume this is normal. Anyway, this really makes my legs burn and there's no way I could keep this up for a long grind. I'm guessing this is one of the ways one get's better at climbing hills and the answer is just to get out and 'dance on the pedals' more, increasing the out of the saddle time. Am I on the right track?

Hills are what seperates the men from the boys - so to speak. It is a complicated mix of a bunch of skills, strength, aerobic fitness, but I think mostly it's about mental toughness and the ability to ignore pain.



That's all you need to know.

On a 1 mile hill I got dropped by the entire group (17-18MPH group). I was so pissed off about this that when I finally passed the next to the last rider, I told her to hop on and started a pull that lasted about a mile and a half, passed the entire group and finished with a half mile at 21 MPH. I'm a fairly decent flatlander but brother do I stink at hills. So what's the problem? I've spent many Tuesday and Thursday nights riding with groups on hilly routes just to improve my hill riding. All I've got to show for it is a loss of 30lbs (that's good) and a slightly better brand of being lousy on hills. What's the secret to hill climbing?
EDIT: My problem is not muscle soreness but running out of breath.

Rocco, cogratulations! it sounds like you have already made alot of progress but what's your hurry? Aerobic fitness takes time. There are no shortcuts. I get the impression from your post that you ride most often in groups and you 'compare' yourself to others. What do you know about your own capability/skill without comparing it to others? Try doing some long solo rides - hilly rides, at distances that are a stretch for you even you were riding within a group. You'll find your pace, maybe learn a thing or two about yourself and have an adventure to boot. Good luck

I will add one thought to the already good advice. Although I am still not very good at climbing hills I did start improving after I read an article from a riding coach. The most important item in that article was about climbing and pain. The coach basically said that you will not improve much as a climber until you accept the fact that climbing a hill will HURT.
He also said that if you climb a hill and it does not hurt, then go back down and try it again, because you did not do it right. Accept this and you will start climbing better right away.

There are hills and there are hills. Many of our hills require belaying. (okay, I exaggerate, slightly) Since we don't have snow or ice, the roads often just go straight up the mountain, and yes, we have mountains, often extinct (we hope!) volcanoes, so they aren't very eroded.

I am pretty good at hills. I probably am terrible at flats, but I don't even know what one looks like anymore. :rolleyes:

But I am not going up these hills at 18 MPH I can tell you.

One thing I have learned on doing hills that is so different from flats is that if you know the hill, you push yourself to near failure, knowing that you can recover on the other side. This is great for rollers and will make you look like you are great.

Flats are about figuring out your cadence and going with it - hills often are more like intervals.

All of this advice is good and practice will improve you capability, but it must be noted that all the good climbers have a body type that is suited to climbing. They are lean and muscular. Some of us (me included) never were and never will be good climbers. Work on it, yes, but don't feel you are a failure if you are not as good as the others.

All of this advice is good and practice will improve you capability, but it must be noted that all the good climbers have a body type that is suited to climbing. They are lean and muscular. Some of us (me included) never were and never will be good climbers. Work on it, yes, but don't feel you are a failure if you are not as good as the others.

Well said Ken. But this is what keeps me coming back and headed for the hills. I may never be as good as the better climbers, but it won't be through lack of effort.:)

A little late to weigh in but will provide my two cents worth:

First-congrats on the 100 miler on the MS ride! You've come a long way and I suspect you would not have imagined doing that distance within that time a few years ago. That is just terrific!!

On getting dropped the following Tueday-while you felt okay, you clearly were not adequately recovered from the 150 miles of riding over the weekend. The goal for that Tuesday probably should have been spin an easy cadence for the ride instead of trying to keep up with the group. That is just some of the surprises of riding so don't fret over it-you've probably already seen how much stronger you were this past weekend-if you gave yourself some recovery time off the bike. Anyway, think about adding some R4 or chocolate milk (or other fluids which have 4 times the carbs to protein) immediately after a ride-it helps tremendously with faster recoveries.

Back to the OP-there are no secrets to climbing and most have already hit on the keys. Here's my list and I think they all are important:

Weight-Power to Weight ratio-what BikeWNC said. Generally the best climbers can generate lots of power and are not that heavy. There are a lot of females that can outclimb me because they just aren't carrying the pounds I'm carrying but generate about the same amount of power. Congrats on losing the 30 pounds, but if you're serious about wanting to get better in hills I suspect you can drop a good bit more. It's not easy or pleasant but if you read what the pros do for training before epic rides they find ways to lose more weight.

Equipment-find the right gearing for you. Most hills on longer rides can come late into rides where you're not able to push the same gear you would on fresh legs-so experiment and find the right stuff that you can push 70-80 rpm for a long time. Maybe you can push a 34/27 okay. You might need a 30/30. You'll only know by getting out and doing some longer climbs on longer rides. It sounds to me like you have the right gearing for what you're doing if you're already maxing out your Heart rate on the climbing. You would not be able to do that pushing a really hard gear.

Bike weight-Overall bike weight is important but if you have something 18 pounds or below you're probably okay. What is most important is the overall wheel weight with tires. After lots of experimenting, I've found that generally the lighter the wheels the better-keeping the overall bike weight in perspective. There are several sets of wheels out there that are really good at spinning up on the hills (around 1400 grams w/o tires) but are around $900-$1000. You can go much lower in weight with carbon tubular wheels but I'm still a believer in alloy clinchers for the type of riding I do.

Training-There are some decent hills around the Raleigh area, but nothing like the longer hills in the Western NC mountains. You need to be doing rides with at least 100ft of climbing per mile-or 6000 feet in 60 miles for example. There are lots of good routes I can share with you from Asheville east to Sparta if you're interested. These can be done solo or with others. Right now my favorite training area is in Tryon where you can do routes of 30-100+ miles and find hills with grades of 5%-19% depending on the type of training you're looking at doing.

Attitude-don't discount this one either. PAlt and others talked about it but climbing is work. You've got to mentally condition yourself to do it. Part of it is finding the right cadence and HR that is comfortable enough for you to do a climb for about an hour. And remember, "it only hurts like crap while you're doing it". The goal is to keep moving forward and to get to the top of the hill. As long as you're moving forward it's a good thing.

Like others, I'm not a good/fast climber because of the P/W issue (the Good Lord said let him have bird legs.......and so it was) but like a pack mule I can grind away on about any hill all day and not unclip and get off the bike. I think that comes from just knowing how to tolerate the discomfort.

On long steady hill climbs, I mean like more than 15 miles, I try to get in a groove. At first the breathing is difficult but if I stay in my groove, the breathing starts to ease and I find that my body finds some kind of equilibrium. Its like staying just below the threshold, whatever threshold that means.

I'm sure that I'm burning a lot of calories doing this. So I make sure I take sips of the HEED pretty often and this helps. I would even stop riding and take a couple of endurolytes to replenish the electrolytes. The sweat is just rolling off the body.

Somethings telling me that its a lot about the ebb and flow of one's energy and oxygen in the blood and then to the muscles has a lot to do with it. For instance, even in a solo ride on the flats and rollers, there are times when I feel just a little pooped and need to slow it down a bit and then pick it back up a couple of minutes later. It makes all the difference in the world. Why wouldn't this be true in climbing? A rider would have to adjust the ride to the body's telegraphing of the ebb and flow of energy.

When we watch Valverde on the Vuelta, he was falling back on a climbing stage. The commentators say that he cannot panic but just keep a steady pace and then regain his strength. That's exactly what he did and he rejoined the breakaway.

This is the 50+ group. The inevitable is that as the years go by, the body parts work just a little less efficient. I watched Dara Torres race the 50 in the World's. Out of 8 swimmers, she came in 8th. But she will try and try again once her knee heals up.

"I really stink at Hill Climbing, Is at a 50+ Thing?"

Yes.

Take me for example.
I'm already over the hill and I'm merrily coasting down the other side...sometimes at speeds exceedind 18mph!!! :o

All of this advice is good and practice will improve you capability, but it must be noted that all the good climbers have a body type that is suited to climbing. They are lean and muscular. Some of us (me included) never were and never will be good climbers. Work on it, yes, but don't feel you are a failure if you are not as good as the others.

Which is interesting because I am not terribly lean, but I have a lot of leg muscles since when I was young, I had a paper route that was pretty big that I did daily with a bike.

I am not terribly fond of speed, so I enjoy climbing hills. I can push as hard as I can stand without worrying about crashing. :o

Yes.

Unless you're jppe or hermes or one of those other body nazis.

When I saw the title of this thread I immediately thought "The Weak Link". I thought who better to commiserate.:D

I have no idea about whether 50 + has anything to do with poor hill climbing ability. I do know that two years ago a 51 year old cat 1 racer won the Mount Diablo Hill climb beating all the men in the Elite P/1/2 category. Not easy to do. So we know that at least one guy over 50 who is an excellent hill climber and also road races in the Elite P/1/2 category successfully. I suspect there are many more.

IMO, 50+ is more of an excuse than a limiter except for those who have illnesses and conditions that unfortunately come with age. And I might add that many of our guys here do some heroic things considering the life threatening situations they have endured. So there are lots of ways to HTFU besides powering up hills.

If I may be blunt, the reason you stink on hills is lack of power and VO2 max. You cannot get enough oxygen to your muscles. 19 mph on a flat road with little wind is about 170 to 180 watts. Sitting in is 50 to 125 watts. That is okay power but not indicative that you can endure a 300 watt acceleration and climb.

My personal experience...hill climbing is tough for me since I am 6 feet and 168 pounds. The guys at 150 or less just kill it on the hills. I have to produce a lot more power at my weight and I have the same basic equipment (heart, lungs, blood, transport) to work with. Even if I have very strong legs, I cannot transport enough O2 via my blood to make them work hard enough. We are all O2 limited.

This year I dramatically increased my short term power and acceleration. Longer steeper climbs are completely different. On many group rides, that is all I need. On a one mile easier hill, I can produce a lot of power for 3 to 4 minutes and that is my sweet spot. So I can sit in or go to front and hand out punishment to guys like OP over hilly terrain.

My long hill climb times 3+ miles >7% grade are slightly better than last year but seems to be lagging. It is not surprising since I have focused on the track 2 K pursuit. However, when I get to the top, I recover fast and could do it again. These are the climbs lighter, more powerful riders kill me.

How to improve....IMHO, the two most important interval regimes for climbing are Z5 VO2 max and Z4 Threshold. I try to get both types in each week. Both are brutally hard and it can be very difficult to motivate oneself to do these. I need an entire ride planned around these efforts i.e. Threshold one day and VO2 max another day. For example, this week...I worked out at the track on Tuesday 4X100 meter all out sprints Z6 neuromuscular followed by threshold laps with another racer alternating pulls. Wednesday was a 3.2 mile hill climb at threshold power. Thursday was VO2 max intervals. Friday was a rest day. Saturday was an easier 35 mile ride and Sunday was a fast paced 50 mile group ride.

Over time, the Z4, Z5 and Z6 intervals begin to increase Z4 Threshold power and the ability to exceed threshold power for longer periods of time and recover. Hills are just difficult and it takes a lot of time and focus to improve.:thumb:

Sometimes I read these climbing threads and wonder if you're all living in fantasy land?
Or maybe I really am just at a major disadvantage?
Spin uphill at 70-80 (or -perish the thought- 90) rpm? Right.
Climb at 18mph? Right.
Heck, Even the thought of 100 feet over a mile... I wish. I'd love to ride that kind of climb.
I have 3 ways out of town and they all fall into the 500 or 600 feet over a mile.
I have nothing longer than that and that's plenty, believe me... the idea of riding that kind of climb over 3 miles or 15? Forget it.
Maybe I haven't made as much progress in 3 years as I'd like to believe.
Maybe 200lbs is just too much for weak ol' me to lift up the hills.
Maybe riding with asthma is more of a hindrance than I realize.

Personally, I think y'all are just showing off.

I'm posting this on the 50+ to see if this is a age thing or something else...

Yes. The answer is YES.

At 50+ we are already over the hill and just don't need climbing any more. :lol:

I ride for fun and fitness. By nature I am over-competitive, however by anatomy and physiology I am non-competitive:roflmao2: Therefore I have adopted a philosophy in group time/distance/speed events to revel in my position bringing up the rear. Somebody has to come in last and thanks to me, somebody else with a more fragile ego is spared that ignominy :D

My bride of 34 years is also somewhat competitive. On the downhills my superior form (greater mass) lends me a distinct advantage, which she does not begrudge, however uphill pushes are ceded to my bride, even if I think I might be able to take her - "If mama ain't happy..."

If you want some nice Winter hill training, we have a couple of very nice 5-10% grades leading out of town that run anywhere from a mile to 11 miles. The returns are usually quite exciting! We are located on I-40 and motel rates and restaurant prices are quite reasonable year around :D We'll be holding our first Tour de Winslow next Saturday morning at 7:00 as a kickoff for our annual Standin' on a Corner festival that runs all that weekend.

If it is not you it could be: poor choice of gearing, wheel hubs are corroded, tires are flat wrong type.

Try a different bike, sometimes bikes with small wheels have different gearing.

I live in a hilly area and enjoy a good climb, that's partly training and partly an accident of being not only unusually small but very lightly built. That said, I notice that lots of cyclists don't handle hills the right way- they tend to attack them too fast at the bottom and wear out before they get to the top. When sizing up a hill I estimate a sustainable pace for it (or each segment of it) from my experience and hold to that as well as I can. It often "feels" too slow at first, but leaves me plenty of energy to finish the climb. If I can accelerate out at the top, I've paced the hill correctly.

I've never been a great hill climber and I never will be. If I train hard enough, I can rise to "ordinary" though.

I was so pissed off about this that when I finally passed the next to the last rider, I told her to hop on and started a pull that lasted about a mile and a half, passed the entire group and finished with a half.

Why would you pass everyone and do a pull like that? You were impressing no one after getting dropped and only setting yourself up to get dropped again on the next climb, had there been one.

Every day I feel more and more like I live in an alternate universe from what is becoming the typical poster in this forum. I consider myself a good climber because I can climb just about any hill I encounter. I have never been fast enough to keep up with fast riders on climbs, but I don't have to get off and push my bike. It has never occurred to me to think I was not a good climber based on the speed at which I climb. I see so many people who can't climb big hills that I think anyone who can climb them is a good climber. A fast climber is a whole different thing, a thing I don't aspire to be.

I couldn't have said it better.

Every day I feel more and more like I live in an alternate universe from what is becoming the typical poster in this forum. I consider myself a good climber because I can climb just about any hill I encounter. I have never been fast enough to keep up with fast riders on climbs, but I don't have to get off and push my bike. It has never occurred to me to think I was not a good climber based on the speed at which I climb. I see so many people who can't climb big hills that I think anyone who can climb them is a good climber. A fast climber is a whole different thing, a thing I don't aspire to be.

I wouldn't worry about it. Everyone has their own style and it's all good. There certainly is a lot more tolerance for all abilities in this forum than some others on this site. When a member asks a question there is going to be an assortment of answers and they all have something to offer. 50+ covers a wide range of experience from racer, endurance, fitness, smell the flowers, and pie eating riders. It helps if the OP has been around here long enough to know what angle each responder is coming from so he/she can weight the responses to their question.