Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Group ride dynamics over long distances

Most of my riding is done solo or with one other rider. This has the advantage of controlling the pace and effort. I am able to avoid excess effort that can kill the pace within a mile of two.

A few times a month, I'll ride in small groups. This can happen at events with other riders or in a group ride situation.

While riding with others in a small group, the focus is on maintaining the pace-line. I'll find that this means putting the hammer down. These group rides are improving my fitness, I feel like I'm on a 5 hour interval training event. I'm actually working much harder in a pace-line than during solo rides. The drafting benefit helps me recover, but is not reducing my effort or improving my average speed.

Should I continue to push myself during these longer group rides, or am I doing something wrong?

Michael

<snip>The drafting benefit helps me recover, but is not reducing my effort or improving my average speed.

Should I continue to push myself during these longer group rides, or am I doing something wrong?

MichaelDo it, dude! We used to have one of these course record holder types who'd come out with us and whip 4 or 5 of us into a rolling paceline. We'd be anaerobic on the front and "recover" at LT in the line. About 10 miles of that and we'd be properly cooked. It's good for ya. It should get your average speed up during your regular brevets and events.

OTOH, don't quite know what to make of your last sentences. You mean these workouts aren't improving your solo speed at your normal HR for solo riding? If that's the case, yes you are doing something wrong, probably not recovering adequately. A 5 hour high speed group ride will be about a century, and you need some serious recovery, which can mean a week of short zone 1 rides. Most folks might find that limiting that sort of hammering to a 40-50 mile ride works better. Or just do the first 40 with the group and then drop off and finish at your normal LD pace.

I remember on RAMROD one year I had a pretty good time over the last pass. Somehow I formed up with 3 young "racer boys" for the last 30 miles, mostly downhill and upwind, my favorite. We set up a rolling paceline that collected about 30 riders in its draft. Covered 25 miles in an hour. That was a gas. Buy me a beer and I'll tell you more stories.

I've found that group rides are great for training. I really wish I could find a group around here.

...OTOH, don't quite know what to make of your last sentences. You mean these workouts aren't improving your solo speed at your normal HR for solo riding? If that's the case, yes you are doing something wrong, probably not recovering adequately. A 5 hour high speed group ride will be about a century, and you need some serious recovery, which can mean a week of short zone 1 rides. Most folks might find that limiting that sort of hammering to a 40-50 mile ride works better. Or just do the first 40 with the group and then drop off and finish at your normal LD pace....

...Buy me a beer and I'll tell you more stories.


Yes, I might better explain. When I ride solo I average 17.5 to 18.5 mph based on my computer. This pace is very reliable for any distance from 40 to 120 miles. While riding, I'm often in a 19 to 21 mph range, my average is slower due to stop and go travel, I ride in the suburbs.

When I ride in a group, I'm often going slower than this 17.5 to 18.5 mph range or much faster. When the pace-line is working well, I can see any speed from 21 to 28 mph. But often the pace-line has to regroup or be more cautious in traffic than I have to be alone. So my rate of speed while riding in a group is about the same when traveling solo. The small group pace-line is not faster than my solo rides.

What I meant by recovery concerns my ability to hammer during the group ride. 50% of the time, I can hammer at will and keep with any changes with the pace. However, I do find myself going anaerobic and losing my ability to add speed. Most of the time I just stay in the pace-line and am able to recover my ability to sprint after just a mile or two. About every 25 miles, I will drop behind the group and at those moments I just don't have it to increase my speed. Fortunately, I'm able to rejoin the group at a traffic stop and by then I have recovered and can hammer again.

And I'll drink beer and enjoy a few epic tails :thumb: .

Michael

Michael - I know exactly what you mean. To cover a lot of ground, 2-4 people is best. Breaks: bathroom, mechanical, physiological all add up. Which doesn't have too much to do with the fun, games, and good feelings to be found on a group training ride.

And different groups have differing philosophies of how to get it done. Some will zing up every hill in sight as fast as possible and then regroup on every hilltop. I prefer the ones that allow the group to break into compatible subgroups who then try to keep it rolling by varying the time on the front with the strength of the current group members. Cooperative riding, like you see on a break in a race, at least until the last 5k!

so much of this really is dependent on the group dynamics

a well organized, group is for sure faster than a disorganized one.

a group of guys that can work together well, is hands down faster than a solo rider.
unless the terrain is super technical, like a twisty descent
and climbs, there's really not much hiding there.

so really it comes down to "how well we work together"

thats the key

"work together"

hopefully, skill, fitness and demeanor are compatible.