Professional Cycling For the Fans - Spitting on Lance

Even Voigt was called "Judas".
He did what he had to do. So there´s no reason to be angry on him.

Its Europe,there's gonna be some eurotrash. For the most part their behavior was much better than I would expect for the size of the crowd.

They view them with distrust when they don't fit the mold of who they want to be successful. The French want a Frenchman to win the tour, so when an American wins they witchhunt him. Americans want a good ol' boy to have the all the baseball records, so when Barry Bonds breaks the HR record, guess what ... the witchhunt is on.

Whoa...Barry Bonds was accused of using steroids, as was Sammy Sosa. Mark McGuire...forget it.
The difference, and this is HUGE, is that those guys could submit to a test to come clean and REFUSE. And MLB does nada about it.

Not true with cycling...

Being a cycling fan you would think it would be a better memory to have a close up picture of LA winning his sixth TDF than one of spitting or mooning or fingering him. When these people have grand kids they will be proud to tell them that's the day I spat on Lance.

Most people cheer for everyone. yet if you go to most US sporting events, they cheer for one side, and boo the other. It's stupid.


At least we don't riot and kill fans from the other team, ala European Soccer matches...

At least we don't riot and kill fans from the other team, ala European Soccer matches...

True. You guys save that for the drive-bys ... :D

If you guys had guns, you'd be doing it as well :)

The more I think about it, especially since it seems to be spread among many riders, the more I wonder if it is just a group who like to abuse easy targets. You know the type, the school-yard bullies. Cowards.

If you guys had guns, you'd be doing it as well :)

I've wondered before if the "yob culture" that Britain now has would have developed in the same way if the citizenry were as tooled-up as they are in the US! I'm off to crawl into a hole now, before I get abused again for saying something nasty about Blighty ... :(

i think you guys have misunderstood the situation. those people spitting on Lance had simply run out of water bottles from dumping them on the other riders ahead of him. they were trying to cool him down and spare him from the heat!

It's the international language of rude, boorish, drunken stupidity.

They almost make the Cutters look good....

It's the international language of rude, boorish, drunken stupidity.

They almost make the Cutters look good....

Agreed. A hard time was given to a plethora of international cyclists.

Whoa...Barry Bonds was accused of using steroids, as was Sammy Sosa. Mark McGuire...forget it.
The difference, and this is HUGE, is that those guys could submit to a test to come clean and REFUSE. And MLB does nada about it.

Not true with cycling...
If I remember correctly, McGwire used Andro and the controversy was whether that tarnished the record. But when Bonds was going for the record, there was all this talk about whether it was good for baseball if Barry Bonds had that record. And now, of course, he's being witchhunted. Do they go after Roger Clemens? No. Why? Because Clemens fits the mold of what White America thinks a baseball star should look like.

Which brings me back to my point. I think Lance takes the heat (from the papers, from the spitting fans) because he's a non-Frenchman who's absolutely dominating their race.

If I remember correctly, McGwire used Andro and the controversy was whether that tarnished the record. But when Bonds was going for the record, there was all this talk about whether it was good for baseball if Barry Bonds had that record. And now, of course, he's being witchhunted. Do they go after Roger Clemens? No. Why? Because Clemens fits the mold of what White America thinks a baseball star should look like.

Is that a joke? Cause that made me laugh

Is that a joke? Cause that made me laugh

Not surprised.

Clemens didn't gain 45 lbs of muscle, 20 of it in one year. His hat size didn't go up 2 sizes @ age 37, and he wasn't a client of the lab which manufactured and administered a steroid engineered to avoid detection.

Statistically, Bonds, from 1987-2000, averaged a .571 SLG% for his first 12 full seasons played, and then posted: .863 in 2001, .799 in 2002, and .749 in 2003? It doesn't take a genius to figure out why he exploded all of a sudden. Short of video of Barry taking the juice, what else do we need?

Giambi, Sheffield etc... They're all guilty if you ask me.

We'll, I'n not a fan of Armstrong but spitting on him is distugsting. They should be dragged out into the open and pissed on!

Short of video of Barry taking the juice, what else do we need?

Um ... how about video of Barry taking the juice?

Maybe spend less time regurgitating circumstantial sports stats and more time reading the Consitution of the United States. There's an interesting blurb in there about the presumption of innocence.

Using your logic, one could say about Lance Armstrong: A few years ago he couldn't even FINISH the tour. Now he's won 5, maybe 6, in a row? My oh my, how could that be possible?

Fans sometimes get out of hand, even in the U.S. Except we're known for throwing things on the field at pro games, and having psychotic soccer moms. It happens, and if you're a high profile athlete like Armstrong, you're gonna take the brunt of it. It happened to other riders, though. I don't believe it's anti-American as much as too much booze and a crowd mentality. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in groups.
dont forget the cheerleader mom who hired a hit man because her daughter didnt make the cheerleading team... :rolleyes:

Using your logic, one could say about Lance Armstrong: A few years ago he couldn't even FINISH the tour. Now he's won 5, maybe 6, in a row? My oh my, how could that be possible?

There is no science basis on your argument. There is a scientific basis on Bonds changing form in a completely unnatural way.
Besides, Armstrong finished the Tour when he was only 23 years old. Then he had cancer.

Does anyone know what UCI ranking Lance had before he was diagnosed with Cancer?

I do.

He was ranked 9th in 1996.

Smoothie104 beat me to the numbers so how about some pictures? Run through Sports Illustrated's Bonds timeline (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/bonds/timeline/).

This is a cycling forum, so I'll keep the OT baseball/Bonds rant short. He was a consistent .280-.300, 35-40 homerun guy. Even stole a bunch of bases. A great all around player. A Hall of Famer who may have reached Aaron's record without the supersizing. Then (as the pictures above illustrate), the guy gets BIG, and statistically speaking he becomes a one man homerun derby. Homer, walk, or a day off. Baseball has always had guys that were a couple ticks above the good players (e.g. Ruth, Williams, Mays), but what Bonds is doing now is just beyond admiration. It's a freakshow in a game that is humbling in its essence.

I don't just object to Bonds, but also McGwire and Sosa. Two guys hit 60 or more HRs in a season, then people are whacking 60 annually and notching 70+? That's not baseball, man, that's the A-league softball tournament where everybody in the lineup is mashing three homers a game.

back in the early days of the tour, supporters of this or that racer -- say maurice garin or henri pelissier -- would routinely throw tacks or oil on the road in front of their heros' rivals. a bit of spitting and bird flipping is pretty tame.

back in the early days of the tour, supporters of this or that racer -- say maurice garin or henri pelissier -- would routinely throw tacks or oil on the road in front of their heros' rivals. a bit of spitting and bird flipping is pretty tame.

This isn't 1923.

Edit:


This isn't 1923.

Ha! sorry, you beat me to it

If Lance were Canadian he would get the same treatment with
the exception of Veloicipedio and Wabbit would be supporters :D
and instead of saying "how do you like them apples"
he would have said, "how do you like that? Hosers" :D
truth is, marty, that canadians are nororious for not getting behind their putative sports heros, especially in cycling, as steve bauer and alex stieda found out in their glory days. my own theory is that canadians don't root form armstrong not because he's an american and a foreigner, but because he's a neighbour and almost canadian.

Yep, this is a cycling forum, so I'll get back to the thread.

After watching the TT, I was growing more and more agitated at the crowd's insistence on injecting themselves into the event. I would hope that in future tours they realize that the time has come to provide some safe passage for the riders. A barrier (as in parts of some mountain stages I've seen so far), or SOMETHING to put the crowd back at least a few feet. Maybe guys on the back of motorcylces with cattle prods, I don't know. I've heard the Tour officials sometimes reach out and smack someone for interfering, but I'd like to see them get tougher on crowd control.

I seriously don't know how the riders stay focused to RIDE. But I also know the Tour is steeped in history, and part of that history is granting liberal access to the spectators.

This isn't 1923.
no, it isn't. the point that i was trying to make is that cycling has a long history of rambunctious and ill-mannered fans, like the simoni hooligans, for example. it might not be pleasant, but it is a common part of the sport. people spit and yell and do all kinds of infantile things, always have. i don't think armstrong's treatment is terribly special; he just happens to be the big star. if the big star was tristan hoffmann, they'd probably spit on him as well.

Just because it isn't uncommon doesn't make it acceptable.

truth is, marty, that canadians are nororious for not getting behind their putative sports heros, especially in cycling, as steve bauer and alex stieda found out in their glory days. my own theory is that canadians don't root form armstrong not because he's an american and a foreigner, but because he's a neighbour and almost canadian.

So far this thread has tried to alienate the French, Germans, Muslims, and now we're debating Canadians?!? WTF guys, I know it's all in good fun, but c'mon, aren't we Americans a little self-righteous? How many American idiots do you think flipped off Jan or spit on Basso? I bet there were some who did. Idiocy is an international trait.

I saw Virenque and Karpets (I believe) both push away obnoxious fans in the last stage. These riders are fighting their way through the stages, then some drunken goon tries to get in on the action. That kind of stuff puts me on the edge of my seat, and for the wrong reasons.

So far this thread has tried to alienate the French, Germans, Muslims, and now we're debating Canadians?!? WTF guys, I know it's all in good fun, but c'mon, aren't we Americans a little self-righteous? How many American idiots do you think flipped off Jan or spit on Basso? I bet there were some who did. Idiocy is an international trait.

THANK YOU!!!!!

So far this thread has tried to alienate the French, Germans, Muslims, and now we're debating Canadians?!? WTF guys, I know it's all in good fun, but c'mon, aren't we Americans a little self-righteous? How many American idiots do you think flipped off Jan or spit on Basso? I bet there were some who did. Idiocy is an international trait.
Very true, I am sure there were some stupid drunk Americans that did disgrace the Country that I live in and am very proud of, and to those Ameicans that did do such things should be deported, there is no excuse for the behavior of anyone.
Did you know in some States in America that spitting on someone is a felony, its called assult and i do think that its a great Law and people who disrespect someone by spitting on them also shows lack of respect for the Law and for their country and should be charged with the crime, unfortunately it happened in France, but I would love to see US officials veiw vids and arrest the Americans that participated in such actions.
(wishful thinking I guess, but I feel there is absolutely no excuse for those people that are ignorant and complete a$$holes)

So far this thread has tried to alienate the French, Germans, Muslims, and now we're debating Canadians?!? WTF guys, I know it's all in good fun, but c'mon, aren't we Americans a little self-righteous? How many American idiots do you think flipped off Jan or spit on Basso? I bet there were some who did. Idiocy is an international trait.
hey, lighten up.
My post about canadians was good naturedly joking around with Velocipedio
who just happens to be canadian. Velocipedio responded about canadian fans. As he's more than
just been there, done that, I think he has the right to, and the right to criticize.
you now, sometimes we take ourselves waaay to seriously :D

Marty