Yesterday "the finger", today spitting, what is next, night-sticks?

Tour director says fans spat at Armstrong
Wed 21 July, 2004 19:44

L'ALPE D'HUEZ, France (Reuters) - Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc has admitted he had seen fans spit at five-times champion Lance Armstrong during the 15.5-km time trial to L'Alpe d'Huez.

Leblanc also said the swarming crowds on the twisting climb on Wednesday had frightened him as riders, including Armstrong, were forced to weave through excited fans who jumped out on to the road.

"I was scared too and I felt relieved when we reached the section with barriers," Leblanc told Reuters after stage winner Armstrong described the stage as a "bad idea" and hit out at some German fans.

"Until this morning, everybody thought this time trial was a good idea and now we realised it was not so.

"There were lots of aggressive fans surrounding the riders and I even saw two idiots spit at Lance Armstrong."

"Unfortunately I doubt you can put barriers on the 14 kilometres of the climb," he added.

Armstrong, who stormed to victory nearly a minute ahead of his closest challenger Jan Ullrich and now looks set for a record sixth Tour win, urged organisers to think seriously about holding another time trial at the ski resort.

"I don't know if that's such a good thing for the Tour de France. I don't think it's safe. I think organisers should watch out," said the American.

I really hope nothing bad happens to LA from a god damn stupid drunken fan.

I really hope nothing bad happens to LA from a god damn stupid drunken fan.

ditto. i'm getting nervious that something might happen. hope not, but it just seems to be getting uglier everyday. :(

I really hope nothing bad happens to LA from a god damn stupid drunken fan.
Ditto, but fortunately if any real harm would come to him or any other rider the crowd would react to that before the Gendarmes could even lift a finger.

I'm suprised there has not been any fights over this type of actions-if I was standing next to someone who spat on LA I might be inclined to rip his balls off. LOL

They should move the tour to the USA next year :)

I'm suprised there has not been any fights over this type of actions-if I was standing next to someone who spat on LA I might be inclined to rip his balls off. LOL

...with your teeth!

There is no proof he has ever dopped and even if there were what kind of a loser would spit on someone.

That's simply outrageous and it really disappoints me that seemingly anti-american sentiment would take such an ugly and puerile form in what is supposed to be an event that transcends politics, cultures, and societal divides. Love him or hate him, how could you not marvel at what he did today?

I am sure Armstrong would have liked to jump off his bike and kick the stuffing out of those guys, if he knew they did it. Of course, he couldn't, but that would be just deserts.

I hope he invites each one to "meet" him, one at a time, after the Tour.

And "fans"? No, they're " 'gans" as in hooligans.

That's simply outrageous and it really disappoints me that seemingly anti-American sentiment would take such an ugly and puerile form in what is supposed to be an event that transcends politics, cultures, and societal divides. Love him or hate him, how could you not marvel at what he did today?
Couldn't agree more. I'm no fan of the current administration, and I'll admit it would be nice to see someone else win the tour if they could beat Lance, but neither one of those ideas is worth spitting on someone. Go Lance

This just serves to show how truly "progressive" Europeans are as many claim. They are no more "progressive" than any number of rednecks here in Georgia where I live.

If a fan were to impede or perhaps slug Armstrong like what happened to Eddy Merckx then it would seem appropriate for a riot to ensue engulfing the crowds in such utter chaos as to stop the race in its tracks. A kind of Rodney King riot there in France.

I guess we should not be surprised they spat on Vets coming back from the Viet Nam war-like it was their fault.

This just serves to show how truly "progressive" Europeans are as many claim. They are no more "progressive" than any number of rednecks here in Georgia where I live.

If a fan were to impede or perhaps slug Armstrong like what happened to Eddy Merckx then it would seem appropriate for a riot to ensue engulfing the crowds in such utter chaos as to stop the race in its tracks. A kind of Rodney King riot there in France.

An idiot is an idiot no matter where they are from. Generalizations don't help the situation - they only cause them to get worse. Calling all Europeans rednecks is as about as truthful as saying Jessica Simpson is refelctive of the collective American intellect ... :D

An idiot is an idiot no matter where they are from. Generalizations don't help the situation - they only cause them to get worse. Calling all Europeans rednecks is as about as truthful as saying Jessica Simpson is refelctive of the collective American intellect ... :D


Oh, I thought she was....

:D

What's the best tuna, chicken of the sea! :D

Koffee

What, you mean yesturday the finger, today spitting and MOONING ??? Lance should have used the guys ass as a bike rack... Those people have no class...

That's simply outrageous and it really disappoints me that seemingly anti-american sentiment would take such an ugly and puerile form in what is supposed to be an event that transcends politics, cultures, and societal divides. Love him or hate him, how could you not marvel at what he did today?

Its not an anti-american thing! That report didnt mention the whole quote by lance.. he said the german fans were very overly excited - as the Americans and Italian fans.

You think the TdF organizers put the TT on l'Alpe D'Huez with a small hope of something like this happening and perhaps stymieing Lance? I don't necessarily, but reading Hinault's comments earlier this week gave me the impression that it wouldn't bother him if it did. I'm glad Lance (and the other riders) got through it and Lance excelled.

I mean how can you call it a time trial when you've got people all over the riders?

Its not an anti-american thing! That report didnt mention the whole quote by lance.. he said the german fans were very overly excited - as the Americans and Italian fans.

Well, I'll politely disagree. I don't think being spat on by more than one so-called "fan" was the result of exuberance. There are no reports of other riders being spat on or having some turd standing no more than 2 feet away with both fingers stuck out.

hey, at least they're not football hooligans!

I also don't think its an anti-american thing.
I do think its an anti-lance thing. The Fingers guy, had to
be muy pissedoff that mayo abandoned.
face it, lots of fans (other than usps fans) are not
too thrilled that lance is once again eliminating
all of their GC contenders.

Marty

hey, at least they're not football hooligans!

I also don't think its an anti-american thing.
I do think its an anti-lance thing. The Fingers guy, had to
be muy pissedoff that mayo abandoned.
face it, lots of fans (other than usps fans) are not
too thrilled that lance is once again eliminating
all of their GC contenders.

Marty

If it wasn't for the fact that the political climate is rather testy of late, I'd have to agree - but only up to a point. I agree that it is entirely anti-lance, but I have to think - and this is based on years of having lived in Europe - that it is exacerbated by the fact that he is American. It's sad to say, but I honestly feel that if Lance were, say Canadian, then the situation wouldn't be quite so bad. Sports can be war by proxy in some ways - not to get too crazy about it. The Calcutta Cup match (Scotland vs. England in rugby) each year is "war". People back home get violently upset if we lose to England (you'd think we'd be used to it by now :( ). They don't get so upset if we lose to Ireland. Of course, no-one is going to spit on Dean Richards though!

What, Lance isn't Canadian!!?? :eek:


:D

Definitely some anti-Lance, but I think quite a few people would have rather seen someone else in the lead. Still, there were hundreds of thousands of screaming fans cheering him on too. We can't let a couple of spitting idiots ruin it. It's like he said, it's so much easier to hear the one boo over the cheers of the crowd! Focus on the cheers, not the jeers, because I think the jeers are few and far between.

Koffee

Koffee

You think the TdF organizers put the TT on l'Alpe D'Huez with a small hope of something like this happening and perhaps stymieing Lance? I don't necessarily, but reading Hinault's comments earlier this week gave me the impression that it wouldn't bother him if it did.
The same Bernard Hinault who said this?:

"At the start of the Tour, I give him a one-in-two chance. Once the race starts, anything is possible. It depends on him and everything that surrounds him: his adversaries, crashes, broken collarbones, his health... But logically, if he does everything exactly like he did for the past five years, there shouldn't be a problem. And if he wins, bravo! He'll deserve it."

This just serves to show how truly "progressive" Europeans are as many claim.

I wouldn't be so dumb as to make the conclusion that a few discraceful Europeans are the same as all Europeans.

I don't think that it is political at all. If he was born in say... Canada... I'm sure it would be the same

Don't know if any of you noticed, but there were a lot of things written on the pavement. I saw "**** You Lance", "Go home Lance", "EPO+Lance=Yellow Jersey", and many others. It's one of those things that OLN can't edit if they want to give live, accurate coverage of the race.

I hate to say it, but every day I get more and more worried. There are plenty of fanatical Muslims in France, and as we have seen, they have a wonderful love for all Americans. Lance, win the damn thing, and come home.

There are no reports of other riders being spat on or having some turd standing no more than 2 feet away with both fingers stuck out.

You said it on your own words, if it was an anti-american thing then all of the other american riders and all of the riders in the USPS would have gotten spat on too.

Just consider one thing Lance is the 5 time defending champ and he is leading the tour so he gets more tv coverage. Im willing to bet that other riders also got a not too perfect treament but it wasnt shown on tv or magnified in the case of Armstrong.

Its just a matter of some people not wanting him to win, regardless of nationality.. ok. i wont be so guillible to say there arent some who dont want him to win because and just because he is American but thats a very small minority. Most of the people who dont want him to win is due to sport reasons. But as Koffee Brown mentioned its only a small small minority who try to spoil things most were cheering him up!

Don't know if any of you noticed, but there were a lot of things written on the pavement. I saw "**** You Lance", "Go home Lance", "EPO+Lance=Yellow Jersey", and many others. It's one of those things that OLN can't edit if they want to give live, accurate coverage of the race.

I hate to say it, but every day I get more and more worried. There are plenty of fanatical Muslims in France, and as we have seen, they have a wonderful love for all Americans. Lance, win the damn thing, and come home.

Once upon a time in those same climbs "EPOntani" could also be read. Its just the ugly face of sports, some of you guys are going over board with this anti-american sentiment thing.

You said it on your own words, if it was an anti-american thing then all of the other american riders and all of the riders in the USPS would have gotten spat on too.

Just consider one thing Lance is the 5 time defending champ and he is leading the tour so he gets more tv coverage. Im willing to bet that other riders also got a not too perfect treament but it wasnt shown on tv or magnified in the case of Armstrong.

Its just a matter of some people not wanting him to win, regardless of nationality.. ok. i wont be so guillible to say there arent some who dont want him to win because and just because he is American but thats a very small minority. Most of the people who dont want him to win is due to sport reasons. But as Koffee Brown mentioned its only a small small minority who try to spoil things most were cheering him up!

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I think the anti-american bias shows on Armstrong simply because he is so superior AND he is American. It is the combination of both. The other American riders are not perceived in the same way because they are not at the level of dominance. I've witnessed this first-hand in more than one sporting arena in Europe. Of course I understand that the majority do not and did not act like this, but frankly I find it hard to believe that the same level of treatment would have been handed out to Armstrong if he were not American. It's simply my perception. I'm not an Armstrong worshiper - in fact I'd prefer to see another rider win. Just the way I see it.

I was just watching todays stage again to confirm the mooning, and indeed some stupid idiot was in fact mooning Lance...
This happens just after Lance starts, the idiot is on the left, ass in the air and slapping both hands on his ass to Lance.
I just dont understand the lack of respect, The French dont have to like Americans, They dont have to like Lance and his accomplishments.. But to be outright disrespectful and completes anuses is uncalled for, The spitting, the fingers and the mooning just shows how much class these people really have.
No one deserves the things that has happened to Lance in yesturdays and todays stage...
guess I said my two cents worth, for what its worth. some of you may not like what I had to say, but oh well....

Rather appropriately, I ran across the following article in the Yahoo! Oddly Enough section:

LONDON (Reuters) - Germans are Europe's worst binge drinkers with almost one in five believing "the point of drinking is to get drunk," according to a survey Wednesday.

In the past, Britons have been condemned as the continent's prime offenders but the Mintel market research survey of 35,000 people painted a different picture.

"Although the Germans may not go drinking as often as the British, when they do drink, many want to get drunk," said Mintel senior consumer analyst Michelle Strutton.

The survey showed that 17 percent of German adults believe "the point of drinking is to get drunk." This was twice the proportion of adults in Britain who felt the same way.

"The fact that German adults are seemingly more inclined than the British to get drunk could help ease the British reputation for lavish drinking and an over-indulgent pub culture," Strutton said.

But the German Brewers' Association insisted the problem was not widespread. Its managing director, Peter Hahn, told Reuters: "The majority of Germans are very moderate drinkers. Only a very small percentage don't know how to drink alcohol sensibly. So-called binge drinkers are a very small minority in Germany."

"Germany, like Britain, has a culture of beer drinking that dates back for centuries and so we know how to cope with alcohol," he said.

Seems like a lot of the German binge drinkers were camped out on Alpe d'Huez today. And maybe the gent mooning Lance was a Brit?

That's simply outrageous and it really disappoints me that seemingly anti-american sentiment would take such an ugly and puerile form in what is supposed to be an event that transcends politics, cultures, and societal divides. Love him or hate him, how could you not marvel at what he did today?

Think about that next time you're eating "Freedom Fries."

The spitting is lame, and I doubt it has very much to do with politics, but if it does, I believe we Americans made that bed and now Lance gets to sleep in it ...

The French dont have to like Americans, They dont have to like Lance and his accomplishments.. But to be outright disrespectful and completes anuses is uncalled for, The spitting, the fingers and the mooning just shows how much class these people really have.

Well at least you're not generalizing.

Guys, this is a bike racing forum, not the political forum. Leave this petty political bickering to the appropriate forum.

it really incredible how much ignorant bickering has surfaced around this tour, mostly around nationalities.

In fact this thread has some downright racist remarks like:
There are plenty of fanatical Muslims in France, and as we have seen, they have a wonderful love for all Americans. Lance, win the damn thing, and come home.

So now muslims are the target for your racism, not just the french, the brits , the germans. Oh wait i forgot, america is the centre of the universe.

It's really tragic to see such moronic posts on this forum.

it really incredible how much ignorant bickering has surfaced around this tour, mostly around nationalities.

In fact this thread has some downright racist remarks like:


So now muslims are the target for your racism, not just the french, the brits , the germans. Oh wait i forgot, america is the centre of the universe.

It's really tragic to see such moronic posts on this forum.

Agree completely!

its plain and simple it is very disrespectfull, Hope someday that guy who spit on Lance will suffer the same humilation, hope his/her son or daugther will also spit on him/her

Well, I'll politely disagree. I don't think being spat on by more than one so-called "fan" was the result of exuberance. There are no reports of other riders being spat on or having some turd standing no more than 2 feet away with both fingers stuck out.

Yes there was...the German fans did the same thing to Robbie McEwen...

Robbie's comments about his treatment (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul22news2)

Second story down. I was reading other articles that said many riders had problems. Now, LeBlanc is saying it was a very bad idea to have a ITT on D'Huez. I'd agree.

I'd guess this will not ever happen, again. What they needed was more security for Lance, more motorcycles in front and riding two abreast rather than in tandem to keep the fans away.

I saw a blurb that the Postal team car was involved in some incident with a motorcyclist/film crew during the climb and they have been relegated to the back of the team car caravan for today's stage. It sounded like they were getting in the team car's way and some disagreement about space and an argument ensued...imagine in the midst of that chaos to have to deal with that, too...

BTW...out of 900,000 fans, two spit on Lance. Don't make this into a nuclear conflict. Lance didn't. And after the treatment he has gotten from the French legal system the last several years, he'd have good reason to pop off. But he didn't and that was classy.

it really incredible how much ignorant bickering has surfaced around this tour, mostly around nationalities.

In fact this thread has some downright racist remarks like:


So now muslims are the target for your racism, not just the french, the brits , the germans. Oh wait i forgot, america is the centre of the universe.

It's really tragic to see such moronic posts on this forum.
You're right, Muslims are the United States best friends. :rolleyes:

First, who here actually knows the people who did the spitting/mooning? Because unless you actually know them personally or were there to check their ID you have absolutely no idea what nationality there were. For all you know they COULD have been Americans.

Second, once again unless you know them personally or were there to ask them, you have absolutely no idea why they did what they did. Total speculation, and probably based on your own biases, not theirs.

What burns me is the disrespect of the athlete, ANY athlete who is there to compete. There are a few riders I dislike and dont like to see win, but under no conditions would I disrespect what they are doing just because I dislike them. Heck I think golf is a game for boobs who want to dress funny and belong to a country club, but I have lots of respect for Tiger Woods as a competitor in his chosen field, even if he is a funny dressing boob :-)

i'm appalled. everyone should love lance.

First, who here actually knows the people who did the spitting/mooning? Because unless you actually know them personally or were there to check their ID you have absolutely no idea what nationality there were. For all you know they COULD have been Americans.

Second, once again unless you know them personally or were there to ask them, you have absolutely no idea why they did what they did. Total speculation, and probably based on your own biases, not theirs.

What burns me is the disrespect of the athlete, ANY athlete who is there to compete. There are a few riders I dislike and dont like to see win, but under no conditions would I disrespect what they are doing just because I dislike them. Heck I think golf is a game for boobs who want to dress funny and belong to a country club, but I have lots of respect for Tiger Woods as a competitor in his chosen field, even if he is a funny dressing boob :-)
I never stated that the French mooned, I stated that "the French dont have to like Americans or Lance and his accomplishments" (true I dont know if they like Lance or not, but I have been to France and I do know first hand that they are disrespectful towards Americans and dont like Americans but do love the almighty American dollar) and "to be outright disrespectful and complete anuses is uncalled for, the spitting, the finger and mooning just shows how much class (these people) (meaning the anuses that did the deed) really have" and you are correct I dont know these idiots and I coulld care less what Nationality they are, they have absolutely no class and no respect for their fellow man, it just shows how low on the totum pole they really are.
It isnt dierected to the French, Germans, Muslims etc. its directed to the idiots that infact did do the deeds.
BTW Devil, there was nothing Political about what I had said, its all fact and happenings in this years TDF so my statements are in the right forum and in the right post....

What, you mean yesturday the finger, today spitting and MOONING ??? Lance should have used the guys ass as a bike rack... Those people have no class...

I missed the mooning, but did you see the American (I think he was American) running naked in front of Lance in the Pyrennes (sic?)? Now that made me proud.

Robbie McEwen was spit on as well. Screaming and heckling is part of sport, but spitting is f-ed up.

Just watching and heard this:

This same thing--maybe not the spitting, but the booing and name calling--happened to many riders of all nationalities. They just had an interview with a CSC rider (sorry, to new to it to know who, and I can't remember who they said) about being berated on the way up. He is a German and the German fans were disrespecting him--to put it nicely. Fans of all nationalities were doing this.

As you can see it is not an anti-American thing. It is an anti-not-my-rider thing.

Update: I just heard who they interviewd. It was Jens Voigt.

Given the treatment that Jens Voigt recieved (from the
same german fans) I maintain its not an anti american thing.
Its really an Anti anyone who isn't t-mobile thing.
Rubiera got the same treatment from Spanish fans.

Its really a sad situation, almost makes me ashamed to say
I'm a cycling fan.

If Lance were Canadian he would get the same treatment with
the exception of Veloicipedio and Wabbit would be supporters :D
and instead of saying "how do you like them apples"
he would have said, "how do you like that? Hosers" :D

Marty

Fans sometimes get out of hand, even in the U.S. Except we're known for throwing things on the field at pro games, and having psychotic soccer moms. It happens, and if you're a high profile athlete like Armstrong, you're gonna take the brunt of it. It happened to other riders, though. I don't believe it's anti-American as much as too much booze and a crowd mentality. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in groups.

That sort of behavior ends up overshadowing the class that most spectators show during the race.
Most people cheer for everyone. yet if you go to most US sporting events, they cheer for one side, and boo the other. It's stupid.

Don't know if any of you noticed, but there were a lot of things written on the pavement. I saw "**** You Lance", "Go home Lance", "EPO+Lance=Yellow Jersey", and many others. It's one of those things that OLN can't edit if they want to give live, accurate coverage of the race.



Let's face it folks, the last 5 TDF's were not simply handed to Lance. He trained, fought and won. It's a sign of the times. People are jealous of winners and champs in sports and even business. They view 'em with distrust.

They view them with distrust when they don't fit the mold of who they want to be successful. The French want a Frenchman to win the tour, so when an American wins they witchhunt him. Americans want a good ol' boy to have the all the baseball records, so when Barry Bonds breaks the HR record, guess what ... the witchhunt is on.

You gotta realize that there are 10's of thousands of 'fans' on the sides of these roads. Lots of them had beer and wine for breakfast and lunch. Always a small percentage of these are gonna be idiots no matter where you go, it's human. This is a high profile international sport which most US fans are not subject too, the NHL is not really international you know what I mean. But these Euro fans do have a strong sense of patriotic pride in sport. I heard today a commentary about how the German fans were upset because one of their own attacked Jan, but he raced on another team(I cant remember who?). It's always the guy on top that is gonna have the worst enemies as fans cause there guy is not winning. I'm sure anti-Americanism plays a role for some people as does anti-Europeanism obviously plays a roll as seen in this forum with others. But I think the main thing is that it is sport and that is that. I can't quote but I believe Lance said something to the effect that the fans are not too unlike those you would see in the US. I just hope he doesn’t get hurt by one of these idiots and lose his once and a life time chance to beat such a formidable record

Even Voigt was called "Judas".
He did what he had to do. So there´s no reason to be angry on him.