Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Loose Ball Fixed Gear Hubs, A List

Hey,

I'm building a fixed gear specifically for training, most of the time during the off season, aka rain and crappy weather. I want some loose ball hubs, the lighter the better (with in reason, I know, an oxymoron).

Right now the only loose ball hubs that I know of are Dura Ace track hubs, but those aren't that light, cheap, nor are they best for use in bad weather.

I've heard that Miche, Surly, and Formula all make loose ball hubs, will those fare any better? I've also read that people have had problems with the Surly's coming unadjusted.

A set of hubs would be slick, but I'm most concerned with the rear hub as I can use a standard road hub for the front.

Also are there any loose ball hubs that accept a quick release? Also, any of these hubs come in red?

Thanks!

The surlys and formulas are both sealed bearing units, unless there's some other older models available or some loose ball hubs from those manufacturers I'm not aware of. The bearing adjustments you're talking ab are for sealed units and are really quite simple.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you preferring a loose-ball hub over a sealed? Seems more practical and less expensive to just go with a sealed setup. But then again, people tell me the same thing for running a loose ball bb.

I like the idea of a part "wearing in" that is the more you use and properly maintain a loose ball hub the better it rolls. I also enjoy rebuilding the hubs, its theraputic;) I don't have a press for the sealed bearings, though I do have access to a shop, I don't want to have to run over there with a wheel when I rebuild it.

huh?

you wont notice worn bearings unless they've been worn too much and need to be replaced.

and, yes, loose ball hubs typically spin faster by hand but you wont ever feel the difference while riding.

and riding loose ball bb or hubs or headsets in poor weather just means more regular maintenance. and that's it.

you do not need a press to replace hub cartridge bearings. read the DIY thread for a picture-by-picture explanation on how to switch them out (not a regular practice, by the way, even in poor weather).

I could have sworn the title and subject matter of my thread was a list of loose ball track hubs, not whether or not one was better than the other...

Hubs page (http://www.businesscycles.com/trcomp.htm#hubs) at Business Cycles has all sort of options, incl open bearings + carbon on the Suzue Pro Max-CF, which sounds like what you're after.

And I know it's not in the thread title, but I'd echo previous comments about cartridge bearings -- they hold up well and they're easy to replace. Having ridden my sealed Forumulas through several nasty seasons on my commuter, I'm not sure open bearings are really necessary or even advantageous. But if you just plain like open bearings better, go for it. I think you'll have a hell of a time finding a loose ball hub in red, so you might have to give up on the bling if you go that route.

well, I could have sworn there is no list in this thread...only poor information regarding loose ball hubs...and I addressed your huge misconceptions.

miche, surly, and formula do not make loose ball hubs by the way.

miche, surly, and formula do not make loose ball hubs by the way.

Formula actually does make both sealed and loose ball.

track down a vintage Campy hub that's already worn in.

Or if you're going to be doing winter training, using the fixed wheel to work on your spin, you can probably get away with rota-fixing it to a freewheel hub and just keeping front and rear brakes. It may stand up to normal riding, but I really wouldn't trust it for skids and the like.

psirue-huge misconceptions? How? All I said is that I wanted them, I find rebuilding them therapeutic, how is that misconstrued from the truth? If you're just trolling for a fight please go somewhere else, I'm just trying to get info, pretty sure that's what part of what forums are all about.

kyselad-right, bww offers them, but I haven't found where to buy them. Seems like the best option.
fuzz-eh, too many people who buy those older hubs because they're "cooler" drive the price way way way too high. As for riding it on an older freehub that would be nice as I could just pick up an older, say, 600 hub, respace and run that, I'm just not super confident that it'll hold up. I don't plan to skid or anything, but I'm just not sure I want to chance it.

edit-yes I'll be running both brakes though

psirue-huge misconceptions? How? All I said is that I wanted them, I find rebuilding them therapeutic, how is that misconstrued from the truth? If you're just trolling for a fight please go somewhere else, I'm just trying to get info, pretty sure that's what part of what forums are all about.

kyselad-right, bww offers them, but I haven't found where to buy them. Seems like the best option.
fuzz-eh, too many people who buy those older hubs because they're "cooler" drive the price way way way too high. As for riding it on an older freehub that would be nice as I could just pick up an older, say, 600 hub, respace and run that, I'm just not super confident that it'll hold up. I don't plan to skid or anything, but I'm just not sure I want to chance it.

edit-yes I'll be running both brakes though

in my young (stupid) days I rode on of these for many thousands of miles, with no ill effects. Especially if you don't plan on putting much resistance on it, it's fine for an application like this. Plus, if it does ever come undone, you can re-attach it by the side of the road.

Right, my only concern is it coming undone on a decent, and crash into a huge tree. I'm not going to be skidding on it, but i do like to use my legs to resist the pedals some when slowing down.

psirue-huge misconceptions? How? All I said is that I wanted them, I find rebuilding them therapeutic, how is that misconstrued from the truth? If you're just trolling for a fight please go somewhere else, I'm just trying to get info, pretty sure that's what part of what forums are all about.


I understand the desire to maintain your bike -- it's fun.

but the notion that loose ball hubs "roll better" is silly. they often do (depending on how often you overhaul them, typically) when you spin them in your hand but you wont ever notice on the street. and if you're building up a winter training bike that will be ridden in crap weather, I'd stay clear. I ran a loose ball bottom bracket through months of intense snow and salt and street sludge -- that sucked. If I didnt overhaul them regularly, they'd get all crunchy. But if that's your thing and you want to overhaul them 2x a month, by all means, do it.

you were the one that said they roll better, i never claimed such things.

Anyways, its beside the point, I want them and thats all that matters.

I'm watching some older Mavic freewheel hubs, but I'm still on the fence about using a bb lock ring on a cog. I'd like to use some real fixed gear hubs with track lock ring.

I've also found the Surly Fixxer, but its pretty expensive, and it looks to put the cog in a strange place, still requiring a dish on the wheel. Anyone use this?

I use Campy C Record & Record loose ball hubs year round without any trouble and I service every 6 months.

I want to try VoloSolo's converted bolt-on Shimano hubs. Loose-ball. But most important thing is the parts are easy to get if you break some. You also notice weather seals that you can manipulate by hand.

I dunno how good the performance is, but apparently some people use em in competitions. I am pretty sure it ain't keirin compartible, but you wanted a "practice" hubs right? Not really bad idea I think.

I heard that some bearings are only for high rpm only. May be loose-balls are better for fairly low rpm. (You know we ain't T-1000's. I don't think most of us can go over 82mph like someone can.)

Old thread but has anybody mentioned SEAL DRAG? Its a real thing and its why people like me want decent loose ball track hubs

If anyone cares I picked up a Dura Ace low flange rear hub, and for the front I'm rocking a Shimano Sante road hub

Old thread but has anybody mentioned SEAL DRAG? Its a real thing and its why people like me want decent loose ball track hubs

can you really notice the drag? really? are you a cat 1/2 where every little thing matters?

I highly doubt that.

There's probably just as much resistance from using grease. Are you about to start dripping oil into your hubs every day before riding for that extra 0.1% of performance?

lol @ the idea of coming into the BFSSFG forum and expecting people to not give their opinion and answering the question asked. hell i'm happy with every thread i start that doesn't end up being pictures of lolcats.

i was all ready to provide relevant information, but obviously the OP already got what he wanted, so hurrah :D

ha, thanks anyways....the hub is going on a Leader too, I can't wait till people freak about that!

leaders are bad and you should feel bad!

Suzue Pro Max had a loose bearing version. I had some that worked great. They were known as the disco hubs I think because they had this sorta prism sticker on them. Not sure if they still make them.

Suzue Pro Max had a loose bearing version. I had some that worked great. They were known as the disco hubs I think because they had this sorta prism sticker on them. Not sure if they still make them.

Suzue pro max are the sealed bearing hubs, the loose ball bearings are the Suzue basic.

http://i36.tinypic.com/fntp4h.jpg

win

are dura ace hubs really loose bearing? why?


also wtf dura ace doesn't belong on a leader

Loose bearing hubs are smoother and can spin faster

Oh, once you see my leader you'll take that back...

i disagree on both, but i'd still like to see it.

You can disagree all you want with regards to the loose bearing, but science and research will prove you wrong.

Any high end hub is built with loose bearings, ever wonder why?

As for the frame, I'm looking at it right now, and boy it is hot.....

DuraAce hubs are loose bearing because of NJS rules. There is no other reason. You can convince yourself that they make you faster, but that is total nonsense. Seal drag from a good set of sealed bearings is so exceedingly minor, it doesn't even matter to pros.

Furthermore, the idea of wanting looseball hubs specifically for the purpose of riding in bad weather is asinine. The bearings roll against the inside of the hubshell. Contamination will eventually result in pitting of the hubshell and diminish the performance of the hub, ultimately rendering it useless.

Cartridge bearings are not only resistant to contamination, but the moving surfaces are contained within the bearing cartridge which is pressed into the hub. No matter how dirty the bearings get, it will not damage the hub.

Sealed cartridge bearing hubs and swap them out for completely ceramic bearings FTMFW!!!

http://msp278.photobucket.com/albums/kk92/Lukeyy777/headbang.gif

You can disagree all you want with regards to the loose bearing, but science and research will prove you wrong.

Any high end hub is built with loose bearings, ever wonder why?

As for the frame, I'm looking at it right now, and boy it is hot.....

My 2009 Zipp 900 disc has cartridge bearings. I'd consider it a pretty high end wheel, personally.

Ceramic bearings on bikes is dumb and a waste. Ceramic bearings were initially designed for extremely high rpm rotations (like a turbocharger on a car which will reach upwards of 18k rpm).

Considering most of us can max out at like, 200ish rpm, it's a bit silly when that's more than in specs for a good cartridge bearing.

http://i36.tinypic.com/fntp4h.jpg

:thumb: I especially like how the jackass who made this mispelled "skis". No apostrophe necessary.

:thumb: I especially like how the jackass who made this mispelled "skis". No apostrophe necessary.


More glaring is the invisible! :crash:

Formula actually does make both sealed and loose ball.

+1
http://www.businesscycles.com/thub-formula.htm

You can disagree all you want with regards to the loose bearing, but science and research will prove you wrong.

Any high end hub is built with loose bearings, ever wonder why?

As for the frame, I'm looking at it right now, and boy it is hot.....

entirely incorrect. i'd like to see the science and research that will prove me wrong.

barely ANY high end hubs are built with loose bearings, because it's a step DOWN from sealed.

ps a hawt looking frame ≠ a good quality frame

Loose balls can be packed so they are as good or better than sealed bearings. But I think the problem is how big the balls and how well you pack em. (Or how much you wanna fiddle with em)

I think bigger balls are gonna be nicer in swimming through grease than small balls. But the balls gonna be more stressed out because fewer balls can fit in. Catch-22 huh?

And, I heard the rumor where racers prefer (loose-balls) hubs packed with least amount of grease as safely possible because grease can resist the rotation. Is that true? I think using big loose-balls with thin layer of grease ought to give you really free-rotating hubs. Not really silent though; should make some "shhh..." sound, and hubs gonna be screaming for repacking every so often. ...

I am all for low maintenance cost so,

My preference = Sealed Hubs

exactly.

can you really notice the drag? really? are you a cat 1/2 where every little thing matters?

I highly doubt that.

There's probably just as much resistance from using grease. Are you about to start dripping oil into your hubs every day before riding for that extra 0.1% of performance?

for real dude, go use some decent road hubs and see how they feel vs formula/surly/dimension. Its definitely tangible.

I have been studying some mechanics associated with ball bearings since the last post. Just reading wiki actually.

I think the guy's right in a way. If you can get a very high-quality loose ball hubs, you are going to have slightly better setup assuming the bearing balls are comparatively larger than those used for sealed bearings (1), the balls (and rest of bearing body) are perfectly smooth (2) and are packed with proper amount of grease and load pressure (3) .

It is entirely plausible that if you can guarantee those three things, you got yourself a hub that is better than a sealed-bearing hub in terms of durability and performance (over time). Maintaining the ideal bearing condition is gonna be tough, but it isn't impossible. Not that I would do it. I would like to spend more time truing and checking drive-train.

Additionally, don't forget about ball-cages. These keep distance between the balls so they don't interfere with each other. My current hub has cages, but my previous ones didn't. I know some people remove cages and pack more balls. Anyone have experience with that issue?

P.S. Crappo here is the hub I have.

http://www.fixiepixie.com/2008/02/unauthorized-eight-spot-track-hubs.html

Caged loose ball, but it is sealed from outside. So sometimes people say it's "sealed" hub.