Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Early TVT carbon bonded frame, ca. 1986

What's the market like for these things? I found one recently, with Dura Ace components dated late 1985. It's got stickers on the tubes (no clear on top) indicating it was sold by Eclipse as the Carbon 7 model. Judging from the wear on the components, it was hardly ridden and looks to be in very good condition. The fork is Vitus aluminum alloy.

I did find a Look branded version online listed at $800. That price sounds a bit ridiculous to me, but maybe I'm wrong? Even half that price would shock me: http://www.bikingthings.com/tvtlocafrand.html

Yeah, it's small - 49cm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21/dissident75/Eclipse%20Carbon%207/Eclipse_0001.jpg

Half that price would shock me as well. With the right wheels to match the existing components, in ready to ride condition, $300 max.

Full Dura Ace bikes start in the mid $400's on ebay for generic bikes that arent special in any way and go from there.

compIf it were complete I'd say $450 but its not complete. Something like that, without wheels and bad brake hoods is nothing more than a parts bike to me. Its hard to put a price on the frameset, its a big wildcard, because its a generic frame versus being name brand. (It may be a Vitus thats was marketed by various companies)

Parted out you could probably get $300 on a good day:

FD: $10
RD: $40
Shifters: $30
Seatpost: $40
Crankset: $40
BB: $20

Thats $190 before the framset. Whats the frameset worth? Who knows? $125? $150? If its a Vitus frameset maybe $200

I should clarify that I own the frame, and I do have the original Dura Ace wheels.

What I'm wondering is if there's a market for the very early carbon bonded frames, and if so which ones are highly valued.

I should clarify that I own the frame, and I do have the original Dura Ace wheels.

What I'm wondering is if there's a market for the very early carbon bonded frames, and if so which ones are highly valued.

OK....overall value of $450+

I have no clue as to the collectabilty of early bonded frames with the excpetion of the Exxon Grafteks which seem to have a following. Without sounding biased I know that carbon Peugeots fetch good money and I'd imagine name brands like Look and Vitus would do well.

Thanks Jim. I'm keeping the components, save maybe the seatpost which is a 25.0 Dura Ace AX. I have a feeling that given the odd size, the seatpost may be quite valuable itself, and it's in pristine condition.

The tubes are definitely TVT, which apparently is/was a French manufacturer. I don't know if TVT assembled the frames, or if Vitus would have done the assembly. It's branded as an Eclipse, which apparently is/was also a French company. Perhaps the branding hurts the value, but I doubt Eclipse had anything to do with the construction.

Thanks Jim. I'm keeping the components, save maybe the seatpost which is a 25.0 Dura Ace AX. I have a feeling that given the odd size, the seatpost may be quite valuable itself, and it's in pristine condition.

The tubes are definitely TVT, which apparently is/was a French manufacturer. I don't know if TVT assembled the frames, or if Vitus would have done the assembly. It's branded as an Eclipse, which apparently is/was also a French company. Perhaps the branding hurts the value, but I doubt Eclipse had anything to do with the construction.

I'd sell the frameset with the seatpsot as the frameset is almost worthless without it. Of course you cold list the 2 as seperate auctions or put the post up for sale at a later date. I dont think the Eclipse branding hurts its value but it doesnt add that panache like a Look, Vitus or Peugeot would have.

I'd sell the frameset with the seatpsot as the frameset is almost worthless without it. Of course you cold list the 2 as seperate auctions or put the post up for sale at a later date. I dont think the Eclipse branding hurts its value but it doesnt add that panache like a Look, Vitus or Peugeot would have.

Not sure yet what I'll do with it. I suppose ebay is the grand arbiter of value, so I could conduct the experiment there. I considered the issue with the seatpost. Listing the two separately, but pointing to the listing for the seatpost could negatively impact the final price on the frame. Also, I'm sure there are others out there with early bonded frames who would appreciate a shot at the AX seatpost.

I don't sound greedy, do I? :lol:

Honestly, I'd have no problems giving the frame away to someone who would appreciate it. But the idea that someone might turn around and flip it for some obscene amount makes me hesitate. I think this is dilemma many of the one time posters here face as well.

Not sure yet what I'll do with it. I suppose ebay is the grand arbiter of value, so I could conduct the experiment there. I considered the issue with the seatpost. Listing the two separately, but pointing to the listing for the seatpost could negatively impact the final price on the frame. Also, I'm sure there are others out there with early bonded frames who would appreciate a shot at the AX seatpost.

I don't sound greedy, do I? :lol:

Honestly, I'd have no problems giving the frame away to someone who would appreciate it. But the idea that someone might turn around and flip it for some obscene amount makes me hesitate. I think this is dilemma many of the one time posters here face as well.

Excellent points.

There's no way I'd give that frame away, small frames are in too much demand. You never know with the seatpost, being a 25.0 it could go for big bucks but then again a frameset without it limits the frame.

If you do sell them sepaeratly I'd wouldnt overlap the auctions. It irritates me when sellers do that.

Greed? No way. Its more like being a savy seller.

What I'm wondering is if there's a market for the very early carbon bonded frames, and if so which ones are highly valued.

There were several frames in that era, none highly valued, maybe a little more than the steel, maybe not.

Centurion Ironman Carbon, which is a really nice frame, but the fork is very flexible: $100-$150

Giant Cadex, which I really like, but I've seen the frame not bring much, $100-$150

Specialized Epic, seems to have more fans, $100-$175

Alan Carbonio, probably the lightest of the bunch, $100-$175

Trek had one in there somewhere, same value, $100-$150, I think Peugeot did, too. Add $25-$50 for the Peugeot cultists.

Almost any of the complete bikes above, in good shape, will bring $300-$400. Add more for better components, $350 bottom end on a women's size, brifter bike, more like $450 if it's carbon, even older carbon.

I think GT had one, too, almost identical to the Centurion, so I'd say same value.

They can be really pretty frames, but in the larger sizes, buyers tend to shy away because they're afraid a bonded carbon tube/aluminum lug frame may fail. My guess is the smaller frames would be light and much less flexible than the long tube large sizes, and riders of that size wouldn't have a thing to worry about.
(I actually think the larger riders don't either, but that's a different debate)

I know of one Ironman Carbon in CA that is undergoing full restoration, I imagine for reasons other than to resell or add value, maybe as a project. I seem to be the only one who'd pay more than the above prices for one of those frames, but I simply like 'em. I think wrk101 has a Giant Cadex.

**** Rax did a research paper on them, but I'm not sure what it focused on. You may want to PM him.
He sold me my first one, still has a gorgeous Alan Carbonio. I've paid about $150 avg for the two frames, but it was because I simply wanted that frame. No objectivity at all.

I've done several centuries on them, and they're as comfortable as any bike I've been on.

And yeah, I have no doubt you'd have a market for a 25.0 AX aero post. The only other 25.0's out there are Thompson at $80 and Kalloy at $20. The AX would bring $40-$50, I'd say, shipped, maybe more if some steel frames used it, too.

Jim has the market/value/pricing down pat. I can combine that with the potential of the bike, as a local builder and seller. To me, the value of that frame is what I can make it into. It's an entry-level women's bike that I can build with 2x8 Sora STI's, decent other components, and sell for $350. It will outperform, be lighter and look as good as almost anything else they'll find for that price, and fit is a big deal.

I might make $50, but that $50 includes the fit, the first two rides while I teach them to shift, ride, safety, and then free tuneup and mainteance labor while I breathe on this earth, time permitting. And some of it is my reputation, locally. They know I'm not going to sell an overpriced bike, and will be here if anything goes wrong. It's a nice frame, but to me, especially given it's size, it's another rider.

Thanks Rob. I thought '86 might be significantly early, but apparently not. Maybe if it were a '75 Graftek. I found **** Rax's thread on early carbon fiber frames (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=395362), and while it's a bit light on information, there are a wide variety of nice photos.

I did find one reference on the internet to an Eclipse branded carbon frame, by someone who claims to have ridden one for 16 years before having a stay separate from one of the joints. Some other info warns about galvanic corrosion splitting the ends of tubes, but that's fairly easy to observe. I agree that as a smaller frame, it will likely be less flexy and less prone to premature failure. This particular frame was probably ridden fewer than 200 miles or so, judging from the lack of wear on the components, tires, brake pads and rims.

Wow, then you picked up some nice 7400 components, and a nice tall stem, too.
Those calipers are hard to come by.

Wow, then you picked up some nice 7400 components, and a nice tall stem, too.
Those calipers are hard to come by.

Yep, some nice stuff. Unfortunately, there is a small amount of surface rust on the brake caliper springs and chrome fasteners. Some on the shifter fasteners, too, and a tiny bit on the FD cage. Probably clean up fairly easily. None on the chainring bolts or RD bolts. The chain was completely frozen with rust. Kinda strange - or simply never lubed.

That stem was set a bit above minimum. It's a standard Cinelli 1R. Not sure who would ever want one in black...:innocent:

+1 Frameset is nothing unique, $100 to $150 value. I have a Giant Cadex 980C from that era hanging in my shop right now. I wish it were worth more!!!

But I bought it because it came with two extra sets of wheels, one set with Mavic rims and nice Superbe Pro hubs. I.ve been moving them from keeper bike to keeper bike.

Do these frames with the aluminum lugs have odd sized headsets? I'm considering keeping it as well, but no point if it's an odd duck. If I do remove it, I gotta figure out how to do it without leaving any marks. The thing is super clean without any trace of a wrench on the hex nuts.

Mine are all standard, same as the steelies. That's probably a straightforward DA. If you could ride a 62.5 Ironman Carbon, I'd trade you frame for frame....

I think this is one of those categories of bikes that has a small audience if you want top dollar. I was one of those that had heard the urban leagues about massive frame failure and just wasn't interested in their looks until I owned a 92 Giant cadex 980c that I bought for the pristine 105 group and Wolber GTX rims that I too transfered from one bike to the other for a while. But, once I took a good long ride on the bike, I became a reluctant and surprised fan of the smooth but efficient ride. I just sold that bike, which you can see the thread of the pics on this post. I had the same questions about it's potential value, being a bit of a novelty bike nowadays. I'd say the audience for these types of bikes are those who really appreciate and collect these bikes like Robbie, those who are not very bike savy and just see "Carbon Fiber", and those who see a sweet DA group they can use on another bike or sell.

IMHO, if you want top dollar, put it on EB and pick a minimum you'd feel comfortable with and see what happens. I saw an early 90's Specialized Epic carbon up to $400 awhile back with Ultegra I think. I don't know if being older makes it more valuable, but I doubt it. You might get just as much selling the DA components as a group.

Good Luck:thumb:

Not looking for top dollar, but I'm also not looking to give away something valuable...kinda like the original seller? :lol:

Seriously, I picked the bike up along with another primarily for the Dura Ace components. I've been looking for a crank and shifters, and here they are. If I sell the seatpost and the RSX 2/3x7 brifters from the other bike, I'll probably be able to break even, and have some nice bits for the parts box. I much prefer selling complete bikes and frames locally, as I absolutely hate packaging for shipment. If it were worth $500 or more, maybe I could learn to tolerate packaging for a couple hours!