Training & Nutrition - Let's cut the crap, shall we?

I think everyone is obsessed with 'buying the right product' to 'improve performance and recovery'. People want a 'quick fix' - a nice neatly packaged solutions to all their perceived problems, yet almost nobody focusses on diet! It's all about 'suppliments'! Almost to the point where 'suppliments' BECOME 'diet', which is ludacrous.

My main question is what should I be looking at for -

1) a drink during endurance exercise,
2) what should I be eating/drinking post ride and
3) before I go to bed at night to aid recovery?

I'm a vegetarian and have just got back on the road bike and am building up some base miles in preparation for a good Summers' riding, and have what I consider a good diet. I loathe the hype and marketing bullsh1t involved in 'sports drinks' and 'dietary suppliments' - not to mention their super inflated prices - so what would people recomend for the following? Don't just shout out brand names at me - what core ingredients should someone be looking at for each, and what simple products would meet those requirements?

1) water is good. sometimes i'll dilute fruit drinks w/ water and drink those.
2) i like: the consistency of yogurt, good bread (maybe w/ some tuna fish as well), buritto's, lots of fruit, etc. just basic 'good stuff'.
3) don't know. but i drink a lot of water and wine most nights. water works better for recovery, but wine is more fun.

basically, eat smart. i ride about 200 miles a week, most pretty hard, and i don't eat any energy bars or sports drinks or any of that stuff. you don't need it. if you like it, great, but it's not necessary.

dan

One train of thought suggests taking branch chain amino acids (shake form is better than those horse-sized pills!). All of the aminos, essential and non-essential are for different things. Some rebuild muscle, some control appetite, some help with endurance... look it up on google and you'll see what each individual amino is for.

As far as a drink during the ride, I like the new Propel fitness water better than the sports drinks. You're right, I hate them because they taste terrible and are just sodium and sugar! Poor hydration is probably the leading cause of poor performance, according to some riders......

As far as food goes....everything I've read suggests that any diet is sufficient for an hour or less on the bike. If you want to build up endurance for long rides, carbo's are needed. I am leary of adding them back into the diet, though, for fear of gaining weight. The natural carbs, or sweet potatos, fruit, whole wheat products... are better than the sugary stuff.

As far as night recovery, I drink a whey protein w/ amino acids. Protein is supposed to rebuild muscle and speed recovery without soreness.

You know, this, like everything else I've learned about cycling, is all trial and error. You'll find something that works for you that would make me gain a ton of weight or have no affect on me what-so-ever!

Chris Carmichael (Lance's coach) has just published a book---out 7/25/04--- called "Food for Fitness" or something like that. Check it out. He deals with these same questions every day! I'm going to read it when it comes out. I'll let you know.

Kim in TN

I'm doing about 300kms/200mi a week also. I know it's not a lot, but I have a new bike that I'm getting used to ( I'm a mountain biker pretending to be a roadie ) and am just getting some miles into the legs at this stage. I'm enjoying it.
I'm definitely NOT enjoying the BS 'sports nutrition' crap that I seem to be noticing recently. The last time I was serious about road riding I just drank water and took a couple of bananas - even on huge rides up to 200kms long. I never thought to myself "Gee, what I need is a 4:1 carbo/protein drink in the flavour of 'icy blast' "

Actually, I've been looking at other 'snack bars' at the organic grocer that might compete with the good old banana. Reading the nutritional information on the back of packs can be interesting.

TrekChic - Speaking of just sodium and sugar, a person down here who has done the Ironman triathon a few times actually just drinks watered down orange juice....with salt added....during the ride stage. Yick! Can you believe that! She swears by it, too.

1) water is good. sometimes i'll dilute fruit drinks w/ water and drink those.
2) i like: the consistency of yogurt, good bread (maybe w/ some tuna fish as well), buritto's, lots of fruit, etc. just basic 'good stuff'.
3) don't know. but i drink a lot of water and wine most nights. water works better for recovery, but wine is more fun.

basically, eat smart. i ride about 200 miles a week, most pretty hard, and i don't eat any energy bars or sports drinks or any of that stuff. you don't need it. if you like it, great, but it's not necessary.

dan

Careful with the amounts and frequency that you consume tuna fish....larger concentrations of mercury due to fact that it's a bigger fish that consumes smaller fish that have mercury as well...many articles on fish consumption and which ones have the lowest mercury content and recommended frequency and times/week it's safe to eat certain species..

I don't eat fish. I also doubt canned fish can, via regulations, could be high in Mercury. Sounds like scare mongering to me. Anyway, back OT.....

1. Drink water. It's just the thing. If you going on real long rides, take in a sports drink (pick your favorite) or a little food to help replenish salt and keep the blood sugar up.

2. Eat food. Eat whatever you like within your dietary goals. Carbohydrates are what you want, but a little protein won't hurt and a bit of fat makes it all taste good. I like to suck down a tall glass of Gatorade but that's just because is cold and tastes good. Studies have shown that carbohydrates taken within 15-30 minutes of exercise are converted to glycogen faster than food eaten later. If this is important to you, plan accordingly.

3. Ibuprofen makes a nice bedtime snack if you are starting to feel a bit sore. Otherwise, there's nothing special about bedtime and nutrition. Do what you like.

I think everyone is obsessed with 'buying the right product' to 'improve performance and recovery'. People want a 'quick fix' - a nice neatly packaged solutions to all their perceived problems, yet almost nobody focusses on diet! It's all about 'suppliments'! Almost to the point where 'suppliments' BECOME 'diet', which is ludacrous.

My main question is what should I be looking at for -

1) a drink during endurance exercise,


a carbohydrate-electrolyte sports drink of 6 - 8% solution. there are many drinks that fit this model, and ultimately the choice will be highly dependent on taste. added protein in drinks is marketing hype, and plain water should be avoided during exercise - as it can cause potentially fatal problems.




2) what should I be eating/drinking post ride and


i'm not sure of your fitness ability. after intense training that may be associated with those competing or training to compete then 1.0 to 1.5 g of carb per kg body mass should be consumed within say 30 to 60-mins post exercise. assuming you're not hypertensive, then fluid should have sodium in it to prevent diuresis and increased transport of water across the gut.



3) before I go to bed at night to aid recovery?


nothing specifically, just ensure you eat a mixed diet



I'm a vegetarian and have just got back on the road bike and am building up some base miles in preparation for a good Summers' riding, and have what I consider a good diet. I loathe the hype and marketing bullsh1t involved in 'sports drinks' and 'dietary suppliments' - not to mention their super inflated prices - so what would people recomend for the following? Don't just shout out brand names at me - what core ingredients should someone be looking at for each, and what simple products would meet those requirements?

i'm an ovo-lacto veggie, eating a normal diet (including a veggie one) is fine. ensure good amounts of carb, low amounts of fat, and ensure protein from a variety of sources, e.g., eggs, milk, cheese, beans, rice, grains, etc. there's no need to worry that you don't eat enough protein even on a veggie diet (assuming that you have some dairy - in other words a vegan may have to think some more, but even then with good planning won't be deficient even as an elite athlete).

ric

Here are some things that work for me:

Post workout recovery drinks/foods:

Yogurt. Has 4:1 carbs/protein ratio and it is cheap.

Milk and a frozen banana thrown in a blender. Use skim milk if you don't want as much fat.

Drinks/food used while working out:

I use just water for workouts lasting 90 minutes or less.

I usually use water with GU about once an hour on workouts lasting over 90 minutes. I find that berry and orange work well for hot weather and chocolate and vanilla work well for cold weather.

I have heard that glucose tablets (available from your local pharmacy) work well for keeping your blood sugar levels up during long workouts, but I have not tried these. They also lack electrolytes, so you might cramp up.

If you don't want to buy Gatorade, try 1/3 water 2/3 orange juice with a pinch of salt. This has carbs and electrolytes, and it is cheap.

Dan

I'm doing about 300kms/200mi a week also. I know it's not a lot, but I have a new bike that I'm getting used to ( I'm a mountain biker pretending to be a roadie ) and am just getting some miles into the legs at this stage. I'm enjoying it.
I'm definitely NOT enjoying the BS 'sports nutrition' crap that I seem to be noticing recently. The last time I was serious about road riding I just drank water and took a couple of bananas - even on huge rides up to 200kms long. I never thought to myself "Gee, what I need is a 4:1 carbo/protein drink in the flavour of 'icy blast' "

Actually, I've been looking at other 'snack bars' at the organic grocer that might compete with the good old banana. Reading the nutritional information on the back of packs can be interesting.

TrekChic - Speaking of just sodium and sugar, a person down here who has done the Ironman triathon a few times actually just drinks watered down orange juice....with salt added....during the ride stage. Yick! Can you believe that! She swears by it, too.

I make a drink with one cup of OJ and 1/4tsp of salt and the rest water in a standard sized water bottle. If you look at the stuff in oj especially when fortified with vit e among others and compare it to Gatoraid for example, you get a lot more. imo it doesn't taste bad either. on real hard rides or long 100 mile or so rides I always get a 12 oz. coke somewhere in the middle too. Banannas are my other favs on long rides and I also like cliff bars. I like the cliff bars mostly b/c they don't melt and get nasty on hot days. For recovery I've been experimenting w/ Endurox and I believe it works for me, I'm not promoting this btw ;) The stuff really is too expensive but I figured I will never know unless I test it myself.

Fruit juices, such as orange contain large amounts of fructose, which in many people cause GI distress.

ric

I'm a mountain biker pretending to be a roadie

Welcome to the club :)

I am always amazed at the diversity of responses when we get into the area of nutrition and supplements.

There are the die-hard nutrition specialists who seem to know every content in every label, and have well stated theories about the interactions of all things. Sort of like a hobby, and almost on the verge of "cultism."

Then there are folks like me who try to eat a well-balanced, low fat whole grain type of diet and who sort of assume that if you do that, it all works together and you do fine.

So far, at 64, and riding about 150 miles a week, I am doing fine on the whole-grain, low-fat approach. Perhaps if I rode more, I would need to investigate different approaches to nutrition.

Keeping it simple and so far doing fine in Colorado!

i just drink water durring the ride, and before and after.. as far as diet goes i too am a vegy, so what i eat before the ride is some whole wheat pasta with avacado olive oil tomatoes and olives on top that gives me a good carb boost for the ride, and then after the ride i usaly get a blizzard from dairy queen :) ha ha i know. then for dinner i like to eat lots and lots of broccolie zuccini and squash, i also eat a lot of squash and sweet potatoes (lots of potasium and more filling and cheaper than bannanas). i eat about 4 times a day because vegies dont have a lot of callories, i am also a big fan of beans i eat about a can a day (wash them off and you wont get gas) and a lot of garlic and rice. basicly i only shop in the produce isle. just get as many colored vegys as possible and eat eat eat.

See? This is why this topic is so confusing! You get so many different answers. Water is nature's perfect drink. I can't believe it can be harmful if drinking it while working out?! That makes no sense to me!

I forgot to read the label on the Propel water bottle this afternoon. I like the lemon flavored one.

I am confused about the food/fueling thing, too. I have been increasing my time and intensity on the bike for the last few weeks and tonight, which was supposed to be a recovery ride anyway.....I rode about 5 miles and felt like I had been riding 50! I think I've either not eaten right this week or I've been riding too hard?!

So, I guess it's back to the drawing board for me!

Kim in TN

OH.......and OJ, salt and water for a drink.........yecky!

If you over 40 www.importhgh.com . If your wealthy , holistic blood doping .Its legal . If your over 65 , by all means , do consider EPO cause your red blood cell count has plummeted . Otherwise , ride 50 miles a day . and most important of all , Be happy :)
holistic blood doping can be found by using google and its as legal as the air you breath .
Jar

Well, I get enough callories, believe me. I've been a vegetarian for 10 years, so I'm not concerned about eating enough, getting enough protein etc - I did all my homework years ago.
Interesting about the water during exercise deal. "fatal consequences"?? Sounds, err, dire. What would someone suggest as a good drink during rides? Ric, what do you mean by "6-8% Solution"? I can get Gatorade in powder form, any other preferences? I prefer homemade/low cost solutions, so is there any off the shelf, easy to purchase items that would be appropriate here?

What do people suggest as a during ride food? I've taken everything from bananas to fig biscuits to hig zoot 'performance bars' and gels, and find it hard to be objective when it comes to any of these. Is there anything I should be avoiding in terms ingredients? What are the key ingredients in an easy to digest during ride food? Most of my rides are between 90 and 180mins.

Im no fitness expert but heres my 2c:

im partialy vegetarian (probably bout 80% of my diet) and like you i dont feel i have too many problems with protien, however after working out with weights i willhave just one protien shake, followed by some oats.

On a light training day ill eat a vegemite sandwich or 2 probably an hour or so before going out ( im normally at work soits whats on hand at the time) Also have a glass or 2 of water. On the ride i wear my camelback ( im a MTBer in disguise) and just go through some water.

On a heavy training ride or on my weekend mtb rides i again have water in the pack and carry a bottle of powdered gatorade thats been mixed weak. Also carry some museli bars which ill have bout half way to 3/4 of the way through the ride. on getting home ill go have somthing to eat, some fruit, nuts etc.

I tried GU on a ride and found it just made me feel fat and slow, not the way to be on a long weekend ride!

G

Well, I get enough callories, believe me. I've been a vegetarian for 10 years, so I'm not concerned about eating enough, getting enough protein etc - I did all my homework years ago.
Interesting about the water during exercise deal. "fatal consequences"?? Sounds, err, dire. What would someone suggest as a good drink during rides? Ric, what do you mean by "6-8% Solution"? I can get Gatorade in powder form, any other preferences? I prefer homemade/low cost solutions, so is there any off the shelf, easy to purchase items that would be appropriate here?

What do people suggest as a during ride food? I've taken everything from bananas to fig biscuits to hig zoot 'performance bars' and gels, and find it hard to be objective when it comes to any of these. Is there anything I should be avoiding in terms ingredients? What are the key ingredients in an easy to digest during ride food? Most of my rides are between 90 and 180mins.


Dried fruits ? I bonked once , the store had no power bars . So I picked up a bag of dried assorted fruits .
jar

See? This is why this topic is so confusing! You get so many different answers. Water is nature's perfect drink. I can't believe it can be harmful if drinking it while working out?! That makes no sense to me!

There is a condition called hypotremia that is caused by drinking too much water. Consuming very large amounts of water, especially if you are doing a lot of sweating, can dilute the sodium levels in the body. This is a very dangerous condition that can lead to death. That's the bad news. The good news is that the condition is fairly rare and generally requires long periods of heavy exertion in hot conditions. It is easily prevented by occaisional salt intake. This can be in the form of a sports drink, like gatorade, powerade, etc. or by eating some food containing salt. Just about any snack food will do.

For most of us, hypotremia is not something to worry about. If you are taking 1 to 2 hour rides, it's unlikely that you will ever get close to running low on sodium.

There is a condition called hypotremia that is caused by drinking too much water. Consuming very large amounts of water, especially if you are doing a lot of sweating, can dilute the sodium levels in the body. This is a very dangerous condition that can lead to death. That's the bad news. The good news is that the condition is fairly rare and generally requires long periods of heavy exertion in hot conditions. It is easily prevented by occaisional salt intake. This can be in the form of a sports drink, like gatorade, powerade, etc. or by eating some food containing salt. Just about any snack food will do.

For most of us, hypotremia is not something to worry about. If you are taking 1 to 2 hour rides, it's unlikely that you will ever get close to running low on sodium.

Certain meds, such as tegretol and trileptal, also cause hypoNAtremia.

Iam currently taking trileptal due to a return of my trigeminal neuralgia (http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/body.htm).

If you over 40 www.importhgh.com . If your wealthy , holistic blood doping .Its legal . If your over 65 , by all means , do consider EPO cause your red blood cell count has plummeted . Otherwise , ride 50 miles a day . and most important of all , Be happy :)
holistic blood doping can be found by using google and its as legal as the air you breath .
Jar


this is utter sh!te, it's also illegal

ric

See? This is why this topic is so confusing! You get so many different answers. Water is nature's perfect drink. I can't believe it can be harmful if drinking it while working out?! That makes no sense to me!

I forgot to read the label on the Propel water bottle this afternoon. I like the lemon flavored one.

I am confused about the food/fueling thing, too. I have been increasing my time and intensity on the bike for the last few weeks and tonight, which was supposed to be a recovery ride anyway.....I rode about 5 miles and felt like I had been riding 50! I think I've either not eaten right this week or I've been riding too hard?!

So, I guess it's back to the drawing board for me!

Kim in TN

OH.......and OJ, salt and water for a drink.........yecky!

too much water (which will differ for everyone and also for different environmental conditions) can cause hyponatraemia -- dilution of sodium levels, which can cause kidney failure and death.

in any situation you will also get conflicting advice, you have to learn to analyse what is good and bad information and how to interpret it. as a professional in this field (i.e., sports science, exercise physiology, professional coaching) i keep up to date with the latest data, and also generate similar data for research articles in peer reviewed journals. Thus, i would hope you find my information credible and useful. on the other hand some people will generate anecdotal evidence about how things may have occured to them, but conflicting variables in their n=1 study (i.e., looking at themself) may confuse the situation.

water does seem like a great drink, and yes, for low intensity, short recovery spins this may be fine. however, if you're tired, training hard, regularly, intensely, doing a long ride, or some combo thereof, a sports drink with 6- 8% solution of carbs in water with electrolytes should be your first choice.

you were most likely glycogen depleted last night. often, it's a good idea to drink a sports drink even on a recovery spin to help refuel your glycogen stores

ric

What would someone suggest as a good drink during rides? Ric, what do you mean by "6-8% Solution"? I can get Gatorade in powder form, any other preferences? I prefer homemade/low cost solutions, so is there any off the shelf, easy to purchase items that would be appropriate here?


Gatorade is a great drink, as is High 5, Science in Sport, Lucozade Sport, and likely others (these are the drinks i use)

100 g of glucose polymer powder dissolved in 1000 mL of water would give a 10 % w/v solution, adjust the numbers accordingly for 6 - 8%

ric

Is it ok to cut gatorade with water? Will I get the necessary electrolytes/ carbs? I ride 120-180 minutes a day. I use water and have never had a problem. I eat like a horse too, so there is probably more salt than I can use?

Good topic Thylacine.

this is utter sh!te, it's also illegal

ric


Im not in the tour de france , Im in the tour of survival and it isnt illegal , its smart ! :) If you dont think outside of the box , youll stay in it . If your over 40 and you dont check your endocrine system you will fade away . If your over 65 , and once again , you dont moniter your rapidly falling red blood cell count you will fade . If you use a alitude tent , you will boost your performance as a endurance athlete . Whats the matter with this ? Holistic blood doping " altitude tent is legal in the tour" EPO isnt .
:)
jar

the site you linked to was for HGH supplementation, nothing to do with altitude tents. Before i went the route of tents, i'd make sure you had coaching and a power meter.

ric

I take an Adventure Racing backpack with a 2 liter bladder of water, a couple of bottles of gatorade, and a can or two of Red Bull, sugar free. I also carry a first aid kit, from my bloody MTB days.

I like to enjoy myself. I am diabetic, and I carry about 4 Cliff bars. Really tasty, and they have differant bars with differant tastes. Organic, great.

Real food, real energy.

Balco Labs has the real info : http://www.balcolab.com/

The guy figured out how to use a machine designed to detect metal fatiuge in airplanes, and used it to human test blood.

The info is good, not too techy. The metals your body needs.

Shaklee has great supplements. Your needs may differ from others.

Interisting article. Thanks for the link.

I take an Adventure Racing backpack with a 2 liter bladder of water, a couple of bottles of gatorade, and a can or two of Red Bull, sugar free. I also carry a first aid kit, from my bloody MTB days.

I like to enjoy myself. I am diabetic, and I carry about 4 Cliff bars. Really tasty, and they have differant bars with differant tastes. Organic, great.

Real food, real energy.

Balco Labs has the real info : http://www.balcolab.com/

The guy figured out how to use a machine designed to detect metal fatiuge in airplanes, and used it to human test blood.

The info is good, not too techy. The metals your body needs.

Shaklee has great supplements. Your needs may differ from others.

i maybe wrong... but isn't this the drugs place...?

Certain meds, such as tegretol and trileptal, also cause hypoNAtremia.

Iam currently taking trileptal due to a return of my trigeminal neuralgia (http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/body.htm).

Sorry to hear this. Does it mean the surgery has failed, or is this more along the lines of a "flare-up" that will subside after a course of medication?

What do people suggest as a during ride food? I've taken everything from bananas to fig biscuits to hig zoot 'performance bars' and gels, and find it hard to be objective when it comes to any of these. Is there anything I should be avoiding in terms ingredients? What are the key ingredients in an easy to digest during ride food? Most of my rides are between 90 and 180mins

Seriously, you can't go 90 minutes or so without eating??

Seriously, you can't go 90 minutes or so without eating??

But is there a benefit to not eating...?

Evidence shows that even during short events (e.g., ~ 1-hr) taking on exogenous carbohydrates improves performance

ric

Evidence shows that even during short events (e.g., ~ 1-hr) taking on exogenous carbohydrates improves performance


My guess is this varies depending on what you ate before the event, from person to person, and by the nature of the event.

If you are exercising only moderately (10Kcal/Min), your body ought to be able to provide the 300-600Kcal from stores pretty easily. I don't have any science to back this up, but isn't this the sort of activity (moderately aerobic for a moderate amount of time) that evolution has optimized us for ?

Dan

> 1) a drink during endurance exercise,

I'll throw my 2 cents in ... for longer rides (2 hrs+ ... I also ride at lunch so for those short rides, I only bring water), I use:

[a] large bottle of Cytomax enhanced, [b] medium bottle water. [c] Clif bar(s), [d] Fig Newtons

I drank so much of Gatorade Lemonline flavor way back (many many moons ago) when I was wrestling that I sick of the flavor so I tend to favor the Cytomax grape, although I must admit, it doesn't have that yummy-I-love-this-flavor appeal.

Always bring water. And I never "mix-down" the Cytomax. Per dentist's recommendation, I alwasy try to swish out the CM with water. CM "enhanced" is CM with more stuff thrown into it.

Clif bars ... simply cause I'm sick of PowerBars, just want something different. Same thing for Figs.

I also bring CM powder on the ride so I can buy cold water, mix and top off both bottles. Way cheaper than buy pre-mixed drinks and I've never seen CM in a bottle anyways. Also, I use the Polar (insulated) bottles. It'll keep drinks cold-cool for long periods. At least for me, when the drinks are cold(er), I tend to drink more.

Best.

My guess is this varies depending on what you ate before the event, from person to person, and by the nature of the event.

If you are exercising only moderately (10Kcal/Min), your body ought to be able to provide the 300-600Kcal from stores pretty easily. I don't have any science to back this up, but isn't this the sort of activity (moderately aerobic for a moderate amount of time) that evolution has optimized us for ?

Dan

indeed, but that wasn't my point, which was to counter the suggestion that food isn't required in short periods of time

ric

indeed, but that wasn't my point, which was to counter the suggestion that food isn't required in short periods of time

ric

It takes time to eat, and many of us could stand to lose a pound or two anyway.
If you're racing or something that's a different story of course
Why wouldn't a person eat before they go..I mean let's say you eat a big lunch before you ride...45 minutes later you're hungry already again?

It takes time to eat, and many of us could stand to lose a pound or two anyway.
If you're racing or something that's a different story of course

but neglecting to eat while training is a *bad* thing to do, performance decreases, power output drops, and thus less energy is expended. sure, if you need to loose weight, then cut your intake, but not when you're training. if your muscle and liver glycogen stores are depleted or not fully topped up you'll ride like a bag of spanners.

ric

but neglecting to eat while training is a *bad* thing to do, performance decreases, power output drops, and thus less energy is expended. sure, if you need to loose weight, then cut your intake, but not when you're training. if your muscle and liver glycogen stores are depleted or not fully topped up you'll ride like a bag of spanners.

ric

Bythe same token won't you need extra calories and energy to recover?
How does a person train and lose weight at the same time..?

Bythe same token won't you need extra calories and energy to recover?
How does a person train and lose weight at the same time..?

Eat less. Train more. aim for small changes in food intake (e.g., ~ 250 kcal/day, with an increase in training of ~ 250 kcal/day).

Cut out rubbish that you eat throughout the day, e.g., sugar in coffee, sodas, cakes, candies, chocolate. high fat foods, high protein foods. eat more low calorie/nutrient dense foods, such as veggies, wholegrains, cereals, avoid excessive amounts of alcohol. don't eat processed foods. switch to low-fat dairy products (e.g., skimmed or semi-skimmed milk as opposed to full-fat milk). the list is endless, and way beyond what can be written about in a forum.

ric

Bythe same token won't you need extra calories and energy to recover?
How does a person train and lose weight at the same time..?

Ah, but you can. Muscles basically use two sources of energy. Carbohydrates, in the form of glycogen is used for anerobic energy production. Fat is used for aerobic energy production.

At lower leverls of exertion, the body uses fats and oxygen for the primary source of muscle energy. As you ramp up the effort, the muscles begin supplementing the aerobic fat cycle with glycogen in an anerobic cycle. If you go all out, you will use mostly gylcogen. If you are going real slow, you use mostly fat.

After working out, you need to replace the glycogen that was used. This takes carbohydrates. You don't need to replace the fat. So long as you do not overeat, the carbohydrates you consume will be converted to glycogen. Some of them will be stored in the muscels for use in the next workout, some will be stored in the liver to maintain your blood sugar level so the brain stays happy. Any excess gets converted to fat.

Posted by DnvrFox

Certain meds, such as tegretol and trileptal, also cause hypoNAtremia.





Sorry to hear this. Does it mean the surgery has failed, or is this more along the lines of a "flare-up" that will subside after a course of medication?

You are not nearly as sad as I am!

It has been about 3 weeks now, and it most likely means the Teflon pad they inserted during the brain surgery has moved, exposing the nerve to a short circuit from a blood vessel.

Right now, I am 1/2 zombie as I take the Trileptal to counter the extreme immobilizing electric shocks in my face. Still exploring options, which might include another brain surgery!

It will not subside, it will only get worse.