Classic & Vintage - Recommend a vintage bike for a project

Basically, I'm looking to build an IGH commuter.

Suggestions for frames to build upon? All I really need is something nice, light, and steel with the appropriate mounts for fenders + rack, with a drop-out and which could take modern BB's.

When you get to requiring built on mounting locations for a rear rack, you're either into mountain bikes, hybrids, or touring bikes. Of the three, I think a good MTB would give the best mix of light weight and low cost, but using an internal geared hub with 135 dropout spacing can be problematic. Bottom line is, you're going to have to compromise on either weight, or budget. If you use p-clamps to secure the rack to the frame, you open things up a lot more.

Light tourers - Trek 720, Miyata 1000 - probably the two best options, IMO. Neither will be dirt cheap, but also won't be stratospheric.

Personally, I'd seriously consider a sport tourer with fender eyelets on the dropouts, and clearance for 28mm tires. There are plenty of choices that would work. One of the regulars here, nlerner, has built up Raleigh SuperCourses much the way you've described. One could certainly do much worse, spending far more.

Road spacing will make this easier.

Horizontal drops, of course. But also its real nice to have long horizontal drops because you need them to fit the anti-spin washers in and also tension the chain.

j

Yeah, as long as it's a steel frame with horizontal dropouts, you should be fine. You'll probably want to spread the dropouts to the right width, which isn't a big deal. For rack and fenders, you can make do with one pair of eyelets, but two is better.

Trek 520, 620, 720? Peugeot PX-10? Raleigh Super Course, Gran Sport, International, maybe even Competition? Miyata 610 or 1000? There are far too many possibilities to list them all. Look at early MTB's as well, sometimes they have horizontal dropouts.

Here is my version of what you describe. Trek 620 with a Nexus 7 rear. I need to change out the flat bars on it, I thought I would like that more than I do.

jim

1983 to 1984 Centurion Lemans (RS preferred).
Has eyelets front and rear, and you'll just have to get a rack that works. (clamp on)
Light, steel, Tange Infinity.
Has a dropout, takes modern BB's. Great commuting road rod.

It's not a touring bike, unless you like to keep the pace up.

And here's my version of what you describe. Trek 720 with Nexus 8. Since this photo was taken, I've changed the fenders and racks, respoked the rear wheel, and removed the chain guard... probably other changes as well, I can't keep it all straight!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3480022428_04643bd43d_b.jpg

The ubiquitous Schwinn World Sport comes to mind. Decent frame with decent tubing. There are plenty of them around, and they are usually pretty reasonable price-wise. I am not sure if the forks have front eyelets, but one can always use p-clamps as stated earlier. Anyhow, that gets my vote. A friend of mine built one up with a 3 speed Nexus and it worked like a champ.

Or a Le Tour
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3435/3942498941_f8a22c8c65_b.jpg

Or a Voyageur (http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1980_1990/1986Ltwt16.html) or Passage (http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1980_1990/1986Ltwt17.html)... Neither are IGH, but could be converted.

Specs (http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1980_1990/1986Ltwt31.html)

Old steel rigid MTB or hybrid. Advantage of the hybrid is that most have 700c rims. Should be able to find either for $150 or less.

A vintage touring bike would be great, but market pricing will be 2X to 3X higher.

Unless you are carrying a ton of weight, I don't see why you would need a tourer.

I've been commuting with an 1980s low-end Fuji road bike (of course, no internal gear hub...) and find it more than sufficient for the 15 pounds that I lug with me every day. It also comes with two eyelets front and rear (one more than my modern day Bianchi Volpe tourer...).

The only think I do find lacking is the double chainrings. My ancient legs would prefer a triple or at least a small chainring with fewer sprockets. But luckily my commute is mostly flat.

One thing I will mention about commuting with a vintage bike is to try to keep water out of the bearings. I'm afraid my rear wheel hub and my bottom bracket must have been exposed to a little more rain than is advised. After 1500 miles, I had to re-grease the bottom bracket and hub.

I'm guessing newer bikes have a lot more protection against liquids.

eek, I just priced out some of the components on universal cycle...an alfine hub would be like $170, and the jtec shifter is $80 alone.

and of course the challenge in finding the *right* old frame. All in all, a project like this could likely easily surpass $1k.

Oh well.

Thoughts on old rims? that is, installing an IGH onto an older rim?

eek, I just priced out some of the components on universal cycle...an alfine hub would be like $170, and the jtec shifter is $80 alone.

Two words will solve that Shimano price dilemma:

Sturmey Archer.

The old Sturmey Archer three speed hubs are bullet proof, dependable, cheap, easy to work on, and they're everywhere. Whatever you do... don't buy a hub on eBay or the like. The best way to get one is to buy an old three speed just for the hub. Three speeds get no respect... most people will practically give away a three speed Raleigh or Schwinn with a Sturmey Archer AW hub on it.

I recently bought a Schwinn Collegiate III with a pristine AW hub for $20. Kept the hub and thumb shifter... sold the bars/stem for $10... sold the rims for $10... sold the frame for $10. So I got the hub and had enough cash for a couple of Happy Meals! :thumb:

rhm, that Trek is a beauty!

Two words will solve that Shimano price dilemma:

Sturmey Archer.

The old Sturmey Archer three speed hubs are bullet proof, dependable, cheap, easy to work on, and they're everywhere. Whatever you do... don't buy a hub on eBay or the like. The best way to get one is to buy an old three speed just for the hub. Three speeds get no respect... most people will practically give away a three speed Raleigh or Schwinn with a Sturmey Archer AW hub on it.

I recently bought a Schwinn Collegiate III with a pristine AW hub for $20. Kept the hub and thumb shifter... sold the bars/stem for $10... sold the rims for $10... sold the frame for $10. So I got the hub and had enough cash for a couple of Happy Meals! :thumb:

well, the thing is...

I want it to be as much like my current road bike as possible. I can't imagine that the old IGH's are much good compared to modern models.

IGH is not cheap. But some ways are cheaper than others. Keep on eye on eBay for cheap (ish) hubs or wheels. They do turn up. NYCbikes used to sell Nexus7 wheels a few at a time on eBay. That is where I got mine (with the horrible yellow deep section rims, in case anyone was wondering about my lack of taste). I bought them about 2 or 3 years ago; for something like $150 shipped for a wheelset. Not cheap; but not enough to push the project into the 1k range. I may have about $300 in that bike all told.

jim

I want it to be as much like my current road bike as possible. I can't imagine that the old IGH's are much good compared to modern models.

*sigh*

Young Grasshopper... you have much to learn.

If you want 48 gears to choose from, then IGH isn't the way to go. But if you want a dependable bike with a sensible range of gears to choose from... hmmmmm...

And as far as new Shimano hubs being superior to old Sturmey Archer hubs:

Look at the ratios and ranges of your available hubs. Now think about how you ride and where you ride. Do you really need a hub with 510% gear range? Prolly not. Most riders know the terrain that they'll be commuting on and can set up a great IGH bike with the ratios that will do the most good for their commute. I could see setting up a bike with a zillion gear choices if you never knew what kind of hills or traffic that you'll face, but you're setting up a commuter bike, right? You know your terrain, and I'd bet that 3 or 5 speeds will do just fine if you put thought into your gearing choices.

As for the Sturmey quality. The sturmey Archer IGH is truly a work of engineering beauty. It is only as complex as it needs to be to get the job done. It shifts every time you need it to... It is easy to rebuild... extremely easy to maintain... and durable as hell. I have a 40 year old SA hub that still shifts as easily and dependably as the day it was built.

Shimano... expensive hubs... expensive shifters... many models cannot be rebuilt unless you have special tools and a degree in mechanical engineering (if you can get the parts at all). But if you want a bunch of gears in your IGH, then Shimano's your bag.

But you don't really need all those gears. On the SA hubs, the middle gear is direct drive. Then you have one gear that is lower than direct drive (by 33% or 25%... I can't remember which) and one gear that is higher than direct drive. You can vary the range of your gears by choosing different chainwheel/cog combinations.

For example, I have a SA equipped bike that I use when I don't feel like struggling on hills. I have a 22 tooth cog on back, so with low gear engaged I can grind up the hills fairly well. Then I use direct drive for moderate rollers and the high gear for cruise control on the flats. Don't have a good downhill gear, but so what? It's fun to coast downhill anyways!

So please don't fall into the "Newer is always better" trap. Sometimes new IS better... but not always.

Yeah! there are lots of nice finds on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Nexus-4-Speed-Wheelset-BLACK-RIMS_W0QQitemZ190337669954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c51025b42&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182

I wonder how bad an idea it is to put 26 inch wheels on a vintage road bike frame...?

What size rims do you have 27 x 1 1/4, 700c ?? They are about 63-71 mm bigger than the 26x1.5 rims.
Read up on tire / rim sizes on Sheldon Brown http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.htm

What's your terrain? You may be wrong that an old Sturmey Archer won't suit you. It suited a great many people for many decades. It's not obsolete!

eek, I just priced out some of the components on universal cycle...an alfine hub would be like $170, and the jtec shifter is $80 alone.

and of course the challenge in finding the *right* old frame. All in all, a project like this could likely easily surpass $1k.

Oh well.

Thoughts on old rims? that is, installing an IGH onto an older rim?

Yeah, I've been wanting to do something like this too, and have been looking around at prices. I could get a cheap 3-speed off Craigslist and use my Jeunet Franche-Comte, and have something for under $100, or win the lottery and spend over $5k.

I've been riding a Sears 3-speed (Sounds like it has a SA hub with the Sears name slapped on it) And I think you don't really need more than a 3-speed, but having a bit wider range sure would be nice.

I'd also like to know your guys thoughts on reusing old rims. Though I guess if I do it with the Jeunet I should just replace them anyways, as the steel rims don't stop too well.

My only problem with a three-speed is not the fact that the gear range is too narrow, it's that it's too wide. But I guess I'm odd.

If you want a rear rack (not everyone does -- I'd rather have a front), then a lot of the early Trek tourers had the seat stay braze-ons for a rear rack; nice feature. So do Miyata 1000 and Specialized Expedition, at a bit more cost and a bit more frame weight. The early Treks also were built for 27" wheels, so there's more clearance for fenders and larger tires with 700C rims.

I'm very happy commuting with a Sturmey-Archer AW hub, though it's not too hilly here in NYC. It's like having 3 single-speeds: one for uphill, one for the flat, and one for downhill. I actually use all 3, and while it's different from riding a 7-8 speed rear cogset, I don't find the gearing steps too widely spaced. You just get used to it. Can't beat the simplicity for cleaning/maintenance. I even shift with a downtube shifter: just mark where the middle gear is, and make sure that when you go into that gear, the marks are aligned! I've gotten used to that too.

My only problem with a three-speed is not the fact that the gear range is too narrow, it's that it's too wide. But I guess I'm odd.

No Tom, you just don't live in Colorado. As I type this I'm sitting at 6670-ft...I need all the gears I can get. If I head down the road past the Starbucks and Walgreens and take a right there is a 14% grade that takes me up to 7200-ft. I'm afraid I need more than three gears to do that, and with a very wide range indeed.

eek, I just priced out some of the components on universal cycle...an alfine hub would be like $170, and the jtec shifter is $80 alone.

and of course the challenge in finding the *right* old frame. All in all, a project like this could likely easily surpass $1k.

Oh well.

Thoughts on old rims? that is, installing an IGH onto an older rim?


As someone who has poured way more money into "projects" than he should, I suggest you buy a new bike unless you are willing to go the garage sale/eBay/CL route. <GASP> :eek:


Trek Belleville with 3 speed hub: $659
http://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2010/xl/belleville_blue.jpg

Fisher Simple City 8speed $969 3 spd $600
http://www.fisherbikes.com/images/fisherbikes/bikes/2010/1600x1200/SimpleCity8_GlossSand.jpg


eBay has several Bianchi Alfines for $650 though the geometry isn't what you said you were looking for. There's also a Van Dessel singlespeed you could easily convert.