Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Low end Italian: part out or keep whole?

Hi all,

I'm totally new to this vintage bike collecting hobby. What I have is an Italian road bike from the late 60s. The frame appears to be gas pipe but paint's in excellent shape, and geometry intact. Is it better to part out the components or sell the bike as a whole? Or are these low end Italian bikes worth nothing more than a hi-ten beater? Thanks for your input!

Uploaded some pics.... Sorry the parts are dirty but will clean if I plan to sell. I personally have never seen brake calipers and saddles like those. The saddle felt hard like wood to me. Also the broad rails.... Only the seat clamp that came with the bike would mate with those. Can anybody tell me more about the saddle and the calipers, or other parts of the bike that's worth noting? Thanks!

Post pics, it might be a better bike than you think. The older the bike, the more common some of those lower end features become.

I can put a more exact production date to the bike now. I've opened up the front hub and found a date code of 'CAM 67' on the locknuts.

With this lug work, I would consider this bike definitely above bottom end. You might be able to find a collector that would give more value to the bike being complete.

I would not part it out.

With this lug work, I would consider this bike definitely above bottom end. You might be able to find a collector that would give more value to the bike being complete.

I would not part it out.

FOR sure ... the parts are of little interest themselves; one or to bits perhaps but...

Find a sticker pertaining to the tubeset.. As for that crank.. I've seen such on some not so cheap bikes as late as the early '70s. The bike might be better than you suspect.

That bike is too interesting to turn into a pile of parts.

I'm not saying that from a coldly business POV, though it may turn out that way as well. What other bike wants those brakes or crank.

Its an interesting bike for sure. If your looking to maximize profit ask yourself how much you'd like to make selling the bike. If your answer is $200 or $400 or $3.75 or $1000 put it on ebay as a fixed price auction and be done with it.

The problem with your bike is there's nothing to compare it to in regards to price, any price we come up with as a complete bike would be pure speculation.

Sometimes parting out a bike brings more money, sometimes it doesnt. A parted out bike takes ~13 seperate boxes to ship. Are you prepared to market, package and ship 13 boxes?

I'll be very honest when I tell you I'm sure what the individual components are worth.

Find a sticker pertaining to the tubeset.. As for that crank.. I've seen such on some not so cheap bikes as late as the early '70s. The bike might be better than you suspect.

That was the first thing I tried to look for but to no avail. That's why I suspect it's hi-ten. The seat post doesn't show a diameter figure either so I can't dig further via that route.



That bike is too interesting to turn into a pile of parts.


Thanks Ronsonic. Point taken and I tend to agree. Individually the parts are not high end or have real functional value. I personally saw those cottered cranks and thought to myself I won't even try to fix it up to ride it myself. On the other hand, the whole bike with the parts all together is like a specimen from the late 60s.




The problem with your bike is there's nothing to compare it to in regards to price, any price we come up with as a complete bike would be pure speculation.

I'll be very honest when I tell you I'm sure what the individual components are worth.

Thanks miamijim. Little did I know before this post that I actually have an 'odd beast'. I'll definitely keep the bike intact and clean it up a little bit.

That bike is too interesting to turn into a pile of parts.

I'm not saying that from a coldly business POV, though it may turn out that way as well. What other bike wants those brakes or crank.

Not cuch a dumg blog you've up there, it's pretty good.

to the OP, good that you see it that way, my brother was fixin' to toss a Legnano on account of him thinking it was a cheapo, it's Chromor and has your crank more or less. I'll put the arm on it sooner or later.

A few never-seen-before (by me anyway) things I observed on the bike after working on it a bit more...

1. Internal routing of the RD cable, all the way from the downtube through the BB and out the right chainstay.

2. Inner chainring clearance is so small it's scary.... maybe like 0.5mm? Is this typical of old Italian bikes with their 70mm BB shell and 120mm rear OLD spacing, in order to maintain a good chainline?

3. The tubes have Woods valves which I don't have experience inflating.

4. Got a decal on the downtube reading "AFRA Via Paracelso Milano". Coincides with the 'brand' of the bike. Can this be a local bike shop offering, as obviously Afra is not a known brand?

And I guess the protruding thingy under the stem is for a reflector (which I don't have)?

Spymaster.....more pics are needed.

Afra di Nart Ezio S.a.s. Afra Sas

Address: Via Paracelso, 5
CAP: 20129
Municipality: Milan (ME)
I telephone: 02 29529815, 02 89076933
Category: Bicycles - Stores and Sale

When I do further searches I come up with Alfa Romeo. . .weird.
I have some friends in Milano and will ask them about the shop (they're cyclists).

marty

Spymaster.....more pics are needed.

Right, uploaded some more pics. Sorry the weather's been bad so I haven't had a chance to take some nice outdoor pics. Here're pics of the decal, and the RD cable going in from the downtube, and out near the end of the right chainstay.

The rear brake cable routes internally as well on the left side. On the other hand, the FD cable has housing and clamps all the way.

I'll wait till I can get outdoors for a pic of the chain ring clearance.

Finally the thing that looks like a bracket for a front reflector.... The orientation of the hole doesn't look right though. If the reflector takes a bolt to the back (most straightforward design), the hole should face forward rather than to the side. The brake caliper has its own cable stop so that's not it either. Can anyone put a wild guess as to what that might be?

I have some friends in Milano and will ask them about the shop (they're cyclists).

marty

Thanks marty. Yeah my search on google came to that too. I guess only the locals there would really know. It'd be interesting if the shop still exists. :)

A few never-seen-before (by me anyway) things I observed on the bike after working on it a bit more...

1. Internal routing of the RD cable, all the way from the downtube through the BB and out the right chainstay.

2. Inner chainring clearance is so small it's scary.... maybe like 0.5mm? Is this typical of old Italian bikes with their 70mm BB shell and 120mm rear OLD spacing, in order to maintain a good chainline?

3. The tubes have Woods valves which I don't have experience inflating, and the original Michelin tubular tires were sewn, but not glued to the rims at all. Also no plastic strip covering the spoke ends. Not road-ready at all eh?

4. Got a decal on the downtube reading "AFRA Via Paracelso Milano". Coincides with the 'brand' of the bike. Can this be a local bike shop offering, as obviously Afra is not a known brand?

And I guess the protruding thingy under the stem is for a reflector (which I don't have)?

Some neat features. There won't be a plastic strip on the rims, just glue on the rim and on the base tape of the tires. If they hold air, I'd try gluing them and trying them out.

Could be a lamp bracket under the stem.

I'm curious, what does this bad boy weigh?

3. The tubes have Woods valves which I don't have experience inflating, and the original Michelin tubular tires were sewn, but not glued to the rims at all. Also no plastic strip covering the spoke ends. Not road-ready at all eh?


Some neat features. There won't be a plastic strip on the rims, just glue on the rim and on the base tape of the tires. If they hold air, I'd try gluing them and trying them out.

Could be a lamp bracket under the stem.

I'm curious, what does this bad boy weigh?

Okay my bad. Now that I actually looked more carefully, I realize it's a fabric rim tape (again a first sighting for me), and Michelin clincher tires installed. That makes the tires probably not originals then, though they do look old and marked made in France? But Nisi Toro rims are tubular rims right? I don't see a ridge on the sidewall to hold the bead. And unless glues can be cleaned thoroughly, there really is no glue residue to be found inside the rim at all. A sign that tubular tires were never installed?

From these pics, can someone kindly fill me in on incorrect/missing pieces?

Hey Ronsonic, the bike weighs at 25 lbs without the 794 gram saddle, so that makes the whole package ~27 lbs.

Just old hookless no-bead clincher rims. That's what many bikes had back in the day.

Thats a 'rim rope' aka 'rim strip' aka 'rim tape'. It serves the same same purpose as a rimstrip, it protects the spokes from puncturing the tube. Oddly enough the store I worked at had then available through the late 80's.

Just old hookless no-bead clincher rims. That's what many bikes had back in the day.

Thanks Bob. Learning something new every day. Reading up on hookless rims right now. :)


Thats a 'rim rope' aka 'rim strip' aka 'rim tape'. It serves the same same purpose as a rimstrip, it protects the spokes from puncturing the tube. Oddly enough the store I worked at had then available through the late 80's.

I find mine slipping around easily and don't stay on position, unlike rubber rim tapes which stretch taut around and grip the rim.

That's not particularly heavy for a bike with that many steel components. Definitely worth the overhaul and should be a fun rider.

My friend in Milano is going to the Afra store next week, he's interested in a Cinelli they
have there. He promised me he'd send more information on the shop when he does.
apparently there is also an Alfa Romeo shop with same name (Afra).

Marty

That's not particularly heavy for a bike with that many steel components. Definitely worth the overhaul and should be a fun rider.

I have overhauled the front hub and boy did that feel good, cleaning out the old tar and putting in fresh grease. But as much as I wanted to try the ride, two things will get in the way of a complete overhaul.... 1) cotter removal: I don't want to damage or replace the cotters, so unless I can locate a cottered pin press. 2) freewheel removal: Regina freewheel at the back takes a Regina tool (Suntour tool prong is too wide and doesn't fit), so again, unless I can locate the proper tool, or a C&V friendly bike shop (I haven't found one yet). The Regina chain is due for replacement as well, having stretched right to the 1/16" mark.

So there's a long road ahead (and $$) if I were to do a perfect job. I might just leave the BB and rear hub alone, clean up the accessible parts, grease the threads, stem and seat post, and leave it home as a poor man's showpiece.

And yes you're right Ronsonic :thumb:, that is a lamp bracket under the stem. I saw the same thing (with a Miller light) in a Frejus city bike pic from classicrendezvous.com. Case closed!



My friend in Milano is going to the Afra store next week, he's interested in a Cinelli they
have there. He promised me he'd send more information on the shop when he does.
apparently there is also an Alfa Romeo shop with same name (Afra).

Marty

Thanks Marty! Looking forward to hearing from your friend. If there're any old time staff there (gotta be in their 50/60s by now :o) they might even remember having sold such in-house branded bikes!

And thanks again to all vintage bike gurus who has provided insight in this thread! What started as an appraisal thread has become an interesting discussion and learning journey for me.