Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Difference in rims?

I'm looking to get my first custom wheels done, (velocity deep v) and I am wondering what the difference between machined and non machined is. (brake surface I believe).

Didn't I just read you about wheels, weight and such ???
Anyway.. machined and non both relate to brakes - yes
Having read you earlier, I would strongly recommend a box rim; lower profile, more compliant yet very strong as well as greater lateral strength.
Mavic Open Pros or Open Sports come to mind
Some may disagree with me on the "V" s but.... I'm just sayin'

Didn't I just read you about wheels, weight and such ???
Anyway.. machined and non both relate to brakes - yes
Having read you earlier, I would strongly recommend a box rim; lower profile, more compliant yet very strong as well as greater lateral strength.
Mavic Open Pros or Open Sports come to mind
Some may disagree with me on the "V" s but.... I'm just sayin'

LOL I'm not sure which post you mean, I understand what kind of rims I need, I just am not sure what the difference between machined and non machined is on the V's. Both rims are for rim brakes so I was wondering if it was a preference or what.

Non machined for fixies since they don't use a brake. They are able to color the entire rim surface for cool factor.

Machined is for bikes that use brakes. The side of the rim is machined and leaved an exposed surface for the brakes to grip. Usually come in trick finishes too for th cool type fixie riders.

If you're riding a normal type bike, then get the MACHINED!

OP's compared to A Deep V for durability? Hehehehehe!:D

No, non machined aren't for rim brakes.

Thank you

IMO, Deep-V's are overkill for "normal" road riding unless you want to make a wheel with 28 or fewer spokes. Velocity Fusion rims are my choice for my next set of wheels. My last build- a Velocity Aero with 36 spokes- has been perfect ever since I built it.

FWIW: non-machined anodized rims are fine with rim brakes. The color-anodized ones will look pretty ratty once the brakes wear away the top layer of anodizing, but braking usually improves at that point. I prefer them over machined rims: they last that much longer since they start out with more material.

Non machined for fixies since they don't use a brake. They are able to color the entire rim surface for cool factor.

Sorry, Beanz, but not all brakes are rim brakes! Those of us who use coaster brakes, hand-operated hub brakes, disc brakes, etc. don't need to pay for the additional cost of machining a braking surface into the rim...

Additional cost? I hope the $3.00 difference isn't going to break the bank!

Jeff, In Clydeland, overkill is a good thing.

Jeff, In Clydeland, overkill is a good thing.

:roflmao2: ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ look at my signature....NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL :D ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓

Sorry, Beanz, but not all brakes are rim brakes! Those of us who use coaster brakes, hand-operated hub brakes, disc brakes, etc. don't need to pay for the additional cost of machining a braking surface into the rim...

True! I overlooked that but the general idea was to inform the OP that the machined surface is used for a braking surface with standard roadie calipers.:D

:roflmao2: ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ look at my signature....NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL :D ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓

Oookkkaaayyy....

I'm on the right side of your scale (220 pounds now that I'm putting on the winter insulation), but I still think Deep-V's are overkill. They're too narrow to mount a decent-width tire. In your case, TC, a 35mm width tire is the absolute minimum I'd ride on on the roads around Independance. (Smooth roads, but still some areas of chipseal.) A 700x35C tire would work best on a Velocity Synergy or Chukker rim- 5mm wider than the Fusion, Aero or Aerohead.

Jeff, In Clydeland, overkill is a good thing.

Yeah, well... once upon a time I built a set of wheels with Schwinn steel cruiser rims, 12-gauge spokes, and Sturmey-Archer drum brakes. I then put blackwall cruiser tires and thick-wall "thorn-resistant" inner tubes on them. I think each wheel weighed 12 pounds complete.

They were sure good for going downhill! :lol:

I know there's tandem teams that are about TC's weight and are riding wheels as I've described with no issues. It's my opinion that the quality of the build, more than number of spokes or parts used, that determines the durability of the wheel.

BTW, Tom: love the avatar. One of my tabbies qualifies as a Clyde: 21 pounds of floor-creaking cat.

I'm looking to get my first custom wheels done, (velocity deep v) and I am wondering what the difference between machined and non machined is. (brake surface I believe).

Any real Clydesdale should be looking at the Velocity Chukker, not the Deep V...

The Chukker is probably the strongest 36h 'normal' rim going that has a braking surface.

Oookkkaaayyy....

I'm on the right side of your scale (220 pounds now that I'm putting on the winter insulation), but I still think Deep-V's are overkill. They're too narrow to mount a decent-width tire. In your case, TC, a 35mm width tire is the absolute minimum I'd ride on on the roads around Independance. (Smooth roads, but still some areas of chipseal.) A 700x35C tire would work best on a Velocity Synergy or Chukker rim- 5mm wider than the Fusion, Aero or Aerohead.


Talk about overkill! ;) 35mmtires are the minimum??? I use 23's and 25's on my single and even on my tandem and I have to ride two miles of dirt road from my house to the nearest pavement! Before anyone buys tires that big they better make sure they not only fit on the rim but also don't hit the frame of the bike. Neither my single or tandem will accept tires bigger than 25's.

I am currently using a Weinmann double wall rim with 32's on it and have not had any problems aside from an occasional broken spoke. I 'm pretty sure that I can ride a narrower tire.

No, non machined aren't for rim brakes.

Sorry, but nonmachined rims have been used for years with rim brakes. I have a set of Salsa Delgados that aren't machined and they work just fine. Functionally, they work just as well as machined rims. Many nonmachined rims have an annoying bump at the joint that can take quite a while to wear down.

Machining does make for a smoother, if slightly thinner, braking surface. Given the choice, I go for machined over nonmachined:thumb:

Overkill? no way. Wheels are what keep ya up, off the ground! Having wheels that can handle your weight/riding style, and stay straight and true, that is a good. 35c tires on a ROAD bike are absolutely overkill. 35c tires are for comfy hybrids. Even my hybrid has 28's on it!

Velocity also makes the deep v in a mountain bike rim, Mountain biking, where no amount of strength is overkill :)

If you weigh 400lbs, I'd go with a rim that weighs at least 600gms, 36H, 2.0mm spokes

Mavic 319 600gms
WTB DD 630gms
Salsa Semi Disc 570gms
Sun Ryno lite 600gms

If you weigh 400lbs, I'd go with a rim that weighs at least 600gms, 36H, 2.0mm spokes

Mavic 319 600gms
WTB DD 630gms
Salsa Semi Disc 570gms
Sun Ryno lite 600gms

Rim weight has nothing...or very little...to do with wheel strength. Rim breakage is a rather rare occurence and usually results from having the spokes too tight or too loose. How often do you hear someone complaining about a rim breaking? How often do you hear about spoke breakage?

All of the heavy lifting in terms of wheel strength comes from the spokes. And the spokes are the most frequently overlooked part of the equation. Everybody says "Give me a good rim and a good hub. Spokes? Whatever." :rolleyes: That's entirely the wrong attitude to take towards wheel building.

Pick the spokes first. By choosing an Aerohead rim, takingcontrol has already gone a good way down that path (he just doesn't know it;)). The reason the Aerohead is a good choice for Clydes is the shorter spoke length (short = stronger). If he were to choose a triple butted spoke like an DT Alpine III, he'd have a superior wheel.

Any thoughts on the Mavic CXP22 or A319. The reason I ask is TC is on a budget and these are options that BWW can do for him for around $200. Just looking for some input on those who might have ran them.

Rim weight has nothing...or very little...to do with wheel strength. Rim breakage is a rather rare occurence and usually results from having the spokes too tight or too loose. How often do you hear someone complaining about a rim breaking? How often do you hear about spoke breakage?....

Correctly built wheels don't break spokes.

When a correctly built wheel fails, it's due to hitting large obstacles (potholes, curbs etc). The failure I am speaking of is permanent out-of-true rim, not breakage.

Heavier rims directly correlate with resistance to deflection when hitting obstacles. This assumes modern design, any of the rims I listed are correctly designed so the weight does correctly with increased resistance to permanent deflection.

Thicker spokes also strenghten a wheels resistance to permanent deflection due to potholes/curbs.

I've built over 1000 wheels and even built Lon Haldemen's 24 spoke wheels he rode in RAAM.

Any thoughts on the Mavic CXP22 or A319....

319 is a great rim, I use them on my MTB and beat the crap out of them. A perfect clyde rim.

Correctly built wheels don't break spokes.

When a correctly built wheel fails, it's due to hitting large obstacles (potholes, curbs etc). The failure I am speaking of is permanent out-of-true rim, not breakage.

Heavier rims directly correlate with resistance to deflection when hitting obstacles. This assumes modern design, any of the rims I listed are correctly designed so the weight does correctly with increased resistance to permanent deflection.

Thicker spokes also strenghten a wheels resistance to permanent deflection due to potholes/curbs.

I've built over 1000 wheels and even built Lon Haldemen's 24 spoke wheels he rode in RAAM.

Spoke breakage is such a common occurrence that I don't believe that wheels can be built that absolutely won't break spokes. The spokes on a wheel naturally go through a tension/detension cycle when in use because of the structure of the wheel. This puts a lot of repeated stress on the wheel which can lead to failure of the elbow. It's not going to happen with each spoke and may depend on the crystal structure of the metal as well as other factors. People say that they can build a wheel that 'never fails' but I wonder how much of that is boasting or luck. I'm sure in your 1000 wheels, you've had a few that have broken spokes.

The structure of the wheel is such that it isn't the rim that keeps the wheel from laterally bending, i.e. tacoing. Even that mode of failure is pretty rare. The spokes are what keep the rim from bending to the sides. If the rim tacos, it's because of uneven stress on the spokes and/or spoke weakness not due to the rim's strength. Again, the rim is pretty much along for the ride.

Weight of the rim has little to do with the rim's ability to resist lateral deflection. If anything, the triangular structure of the Aerohead should make the rim stronger. There is less ability for rim to twist as is necessary for a permanent deflection of the rim.

Thicker spokes, specifically spokes with thicker heads and elbows, do strengthen a wheel's resistance to permanent deflection...just as spokes with a shorter length do.

I am currently using a Weinmann double wall rim with 32's on it and have not had any problems aside from an occasional broken spoke. I 'm pretty sure that I can ride a narrower tire.

Easy answer, Deep V machined brake surface. I use a 23 tire on my V's. Also my tandem has a 25 in the front and a 28 in the rear with a combined weight of over 400 lbs. Proven strong is the V!:thumb:

If you are on a budget, have the rear rear built, buy the front later when funds are greater.:D

Spoke breakage is such a common occurrence that I don't believe that wheels can be built that absolutely won't break spokes....

That's what people with a crummy wheel builder say. You need to get a better builder.

OK to continue on the subject I may be able to build more for less, Today was my first day at OSU and they have two bike shops available to me. One is a full service student ran shop that has bike mechanics available for questions and they will work on your bike at a reduced cost. The other is a bike coop that I am going to see about volunteering at to learn more about wrenching on bikes.

The point of all this is I have Approx $300.00 budgeted towards rims (not including liners tubes and tires)
and am wondering about building them myself with the schools tools and some guidance from available mechanics/books at these shops.

Opinions on this? Will save me about 80 dollars that can be put to better use.

I'd go for the wheels with the Mavic 319s at BWW. I bought wheels from there for my sons, I can't buy the components for the price they ship you built wheels.

OK i checked out BWW and those rims are a 32 spoke rim. I am 399.9 lbs as of this morning. Still a good deal for me?

P.S. Firefox REALLY didn't like the check my basket page. I ended up using Exp. to navigate their website.

OK i checked out BWW and those rims are a 32 spoke rim. I am 399.9 lbs as of this morning. Still a good deal for me?

As long as the person who builds them knows what they are doing! Make sure you have a good wheel builder and you should be fine. I use 32 spoke wheels on my tandem and we (my stoker and I) weigh a little more than you and I might guess that we're putting out more wattage as well since we race the thing.

That's what people with a crummy wheel builder say. You need to get a better builder.

So, not a single one of your 1000 wheels has ever broken a spoke? Not one? You sure? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

So, not a single one of your 1000 wheels has ever broken a spoke? Not one? You sure? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I don't know about IGGy, but I haven't broken a single undamaged spoke in the 18 years since I learned to properly build and tension wheels. (I 've been building wheels for 30 years.) I have broken spokes, but they've been due to obvious damage- the chain getting overshifted off of the big cog, for instance.

That's with my 220 pound butt on my recumbent bike (no unweighting of the wheels), on all surfaces on-road & off, and some loaded touring.

You're absolutely correct in saying that spokes go through a tension/detension cycle, which fatigues the spoke and eventually causes breakage. A properly tensioned wheel will minimize this, which in turn minimizes the fatigue to the point where the rim wears out before spokes break. This rim: http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/rites2005/pages/rites042.htm was perfectly true when it let go.

So, not a single one of your 1000 wheels has ever broken a spoke? Not one? You sure? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Send me your parts, I'll buy the spokes and build you a good wheel. It's sad how clydes think spoke breakage is normal.

You're absolutely correct in saying that spokes go through a tension/detension cycle, which fatigues the spoke and eventually causes breakage. A properly tensioned wheel will minimize this, which in turn minimizes the fatigue to the point where the rim wears out before spokes break. This rim: http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/rites2005/pages/rites042.htm was perfectly true when it let go.

The key is it minimizes fatigue. You can't get rid of it entirely because of the nature of how the wheel works. Minimizes implies that there is still the risk of spoke breakage due to fatique. It may be small but it is still there. Heavy loads increase the severity of the tensio/detension cycle and increase the fatigue. I don't break spokes that often anymore. However, I do carry something for repair...just in case.

Send me your parts, I'll buy the spokes and build you a good wheel. It's sad how clydes think spoke breakage is normal.

I don't need to send you parts, thank you. I build my own wheels and have gotten quite good at it. However, I do acknowledge that possible spoke breakage is an issue on any wheel. You still haven't answered my questions? Not a single spoke in 1000 wheels?

OK to continue on the subject I may be able to build more for less, Today was my first day at OSU and they have two bike shops available to me. One is a full service student ran shop that has bike mechanics available for questions and they will work on your bike at a reduced cost. The other is a bike coop that I am going to see about volunteering at to learn more about wrenching on bikes.

The point of all this is I have Approx $300.00 budgeted towards rims (not including liners tubes and tires)
and am wondering about building them myself with the schools tools and some guidance from available mechanics/books at these shops.

Opinions on this? Will save me about 80 dollars that can be put to better use.

Realistically, it takes a lot of wheels to get to the point where you are good at building them. Look at what Jeff Wills posted. He may not have broken a spoke in the last 18 years but he probably had plenty of problems in the 12 years before that:rolleyes: I've been trying to get Mr. IGH to admit that he has had some problems in the past to no avail:rolleyes: I'll freely admit that I've built bad wheels while learning. They were either too tight and the rim broke or they were too loose and some spokes broke. It's a complicated procedure and it requires no small amount of art/science (It works out to be mostly art and maybe a little black magic;)) to build a wheel that will last up to the punishment that cycling dishes out.

However, each journey starts with the first step. This would be a good time to start learning. You have a shop that can provide some support and instruction. That should help you over some of the hurtles and speed up the learning curve. Expect some failures and some successes. Failure teaches you much more than success;) Go do it. And good luck:thumb:

The point of all this is I have Approx $300.00 budgeted towards rims (not including liners tubes and tires) and am wondering about building them myself with the schools tools and some guidance from available mechanics/books at these shops.

Opinions on this? Will save me about 80 dollars that can be put to better use.

In addition to rims, you also need hubs, spokes, nipples, and rim tape. In my experience, it's difficult to save money building your own wheels unless you have a lot of time to spend waiting around for deals. Professional wheel builders buy parts in bulk and get bulk pricing. When you're buying a pair of rims, a pair of hubs, etc. you won't get the same pricing. In addition, you have to factor in the time required to build the wheels. If you haven't built wheels before, you could easily spend 3-5 hours per wheel; more if you do something wrong and don't realize it immediately. Don't ask me how I know this...

Generally, if I can buy what I need from Bicycle Wheel Warehouse or another trusted vendor, I'll end up saving both time and money. I recently built my first set of wheels for my touring bike because I couldn't find what I wanted anywhere. I was lucky enough to find Shimano XTR hubs for half-price and Velocity Synergy rims also for half-price. Building the wheels took forever, but I ended up with exactly the wheels that I wanted and I know exactly how they're constructed. If I have any problems on the road, I'm now much more confident in my ability to handle them.

Realistically, it takes a lot of wheels to get to the point where you are good at building them.

That's funny! My first build lasted 20,000 miles with one small minor truing of two spokes after 14,000 miles. Retired the wheel after the braking surface wore out. Still true and no broken spokes. Won't ride it for safety reasons.

I started building my own after the guys at the shop said breaking spokes was normal. I couldn't get a handbuilt wheel that lasted over 2,000 miles. One Deep V didn't make it through the first 40 miles. Last wheel was a tandem wheel built at a tandem specific shop. Broke 3 spokes (separate occasions) within 200 miles. I rebuilt the thing and haven't had a single problem after a couple thousand miles.

Been building my own now for 4 or 5 years, haven't broken a spoke since!;)

I think every CLYDE should read Sheldon Brown's wheel building section. After understanding and practicing the material and good build methods, I go into local shops and check out the handbuilt wheels. Some don't even have the trailing spokes laced correctly according to Sheldon. Now I can see why these builders had problems with my wheels.:p

I built my Alfine hub into a wheel with a Velocity Dyad rim and DT Swiss double butted spokes. It was a lot of fun and i haven't had any trouble with it (yet), but i'm only 150# and even with touring gear the total loaded weight is under 250#. I didn't save much by doing it myself, but then again, nobody was selling what i needed.

...Not a single spoke in 1000 wheels?
If you use good spokes, they don't break. Back in the day (the 70's) we stuck to steel spokes (Union and Torrington) when everyone was using chrome and stainless steel, usually in 1.8mm straight gauge. Those spokes will break no matter how good the wheelbuilder is. Back in the day building a wheel took some skill, 120mm hubs with wide spaced 5 speed freewheels were a challenge. When DT came available in the US, we started using those. I also use Wheelsmith spokes. I never use straight gauge 1.8mm EVER.

My record isn't about me, it's about using good spokes. If you have a wheel with DT 2.0/1,82.0 or 2.0 combined with 130mm/135mm hubs and your wheels break spokes, you suck at wheel building. It really is that simple.

When I returned to my University town 25 years later, two people still had wheels I built for them. Union spokes, Super Champ Mod 58 rims, add a few washers to the non-dish side (making the wheel 124mm) and take a washer off the freewheel side makes a wheel with ~2.5 turns of dish, no problem.

... I've been trying to get Mr. IGH to admit that he has had some problems in the past to no avail:rolleyes:...

I started building wheels professionally when I was 13 years old, started working at a Chicago area high end bike shop. I was trained by the best, if the wheel wasn't built correctly, it didn't leave the shop. You learned from the beganning, first you had to show you could load the spokes in the hub correctly, lace it, then use the Yankee to pre-tension it. After 4-5 times with no help, you might get to tension a wheel. Back then bike shops made all their replacement wheels, you'd salvage the hubs from bent wheels and re-use them when you built up a stock of replacement steel wheels in the winter preparing for the summer rush. I built sooo many Araya steel rimmed 120mm wheels for all those Varsities and Records. I made my living being a bike mechanic all through college :thumb:

OK i checked out BWW and those rims are a 32 spoke rim. I am 399.9 lbs as of this morning. Still a good deal for me? ...

I'd buy 'em, the extra 4 spokes are better but the rims are more important, I ride those exact rims on my MTB, I was dropping 12" many times with 290~300lbs on the bike, the rim is still true (I'm lighter now :) ).

I'd get them with the Shimano XT hubs and brass nipples, that what my boys are running. I couldn't buy those parts for less than $250, the wheels are well built.

Talk about overkill! ;) 35mmtires are the minimum??? I use 23's and 25's on my single and even on my tandem and I have to ride two miles of dirt road from my house to the nearest pavement! Before anyone buys tires that big they better make sure they not only fit on the rim but also don't hit the frame of the bike. Neither my single or tandem will accept tires bigger than 25's.

I say it all the time. This Clydesdale forum is full of just fat ponys commenting about Clyde issues.

No real Clyde can get by on 25s. 125lb cyclists race on23s and 25s.

Anyone 6'5" and over, and anyone 300lbs and over will just blow through tubes constantly on 23s or 25s. Real Clydes need tires that will hold up to Clyde weight, and with sufficient width to minimize rim and spoke failure. Context is key.

Most couples on a racing tandem weigh less than a Clyde. A 175lb man and his 125lb stoker are barely a Clyde.

On our Tandem we run Continental 38s the old TopTouring tires. Bombproof and safe. You don't want a sidewall blowout with 400-600lbs of people on two tires. On my single I run 28s, the new Continental TopContact (closest thing to TopTouring anymore).

The Velocity Chukker is like a Deep V on steroids. A Deep V is only 19mm wide. The Chukker is 24mm wide and has a deeper (and stronger) section than the Deep V. It ain't particularly light, but neither is a Clyde. Fat Ponys wouldn't like this rim, Clydes would love it with Conti TopContact 28s.

If you weigh 400lbs, I'd go with a rim that weighs at least 600gms, 36H, 2.0mm spokes

Mavic 319 600gms
WTB DD 630gms
Salsa Semi Disc 570gms
Sun Ryno lite 600gms

I'd take the Mavic 319 off that list and replace it with the A719. I'd add the Velocity Chukker (available in 36h, 40h, 48h and in 650b, 26" and 700c).

Also don't forget about the 13/14g spokes that are out there.

Correctly built wheels don't break spokes.

That's just silly...

Send me one of your 'correctly built wheels' and I'll send you back the broken spokes and rim.

The truth is most wheelbuilders have a failure of imagination when it comes to building wheels for real Clydes. They are used to building wheels for hipsters and wanna be racers. Somebody five foot nothing and a hundred and fifty pounds dripping wet can't begin to torque spokes the way someone 6'5" and over 300lbs can. The mity might has to spin a 120 cadence to approach the wattage the big guy can kick out at 65. When the big guy hammers, well, things break.

No put a real Clyde on a tandem and even famous wheelbuilders best effort can fail within five miles. There is just a complete failure of imagination as to the forces and weight the wheels are going through.

The wheel builder thinks 48 double butted spokes can handle anything, that a certain rim is 'bombproof', well that wheelbuilder then starts accusing the customer of 'detensioning the wheel with a spokewrench' or other such nonsense.

There is a dynamic tension with wheels between building 'em strong enough, responsive enough, and stiff enough but not to the point that you start breaking spokes and pulling spokes through rims.

With Clydes, most 36h 14g wheels are so completely inadequate its not even funny. Don't even get me started on dish with todays stupid redundant 9/10/11 speed drivetrains.

I started building wheels professionally when I was 13 years old, started working at a Chicago area high end bike shop. I was trained by the best, if the wheel wasn't built correctly, it didn't leave the shop. You learned from the beganning, first you had to show you could load the spokes in the hub correctly, lace it, then use the Yankee to pre-tension it. After 4-5 times with no help, you might get to tension a wheel. Back then bike shops made all their replacement wheels, you'd salvage the hubs from bent wheels and re-use them when you built up a stock of replacement steel wheels in the winter preparing for the summer rush. I built sooo many Araya steel rimmed 120mm wheels for all those Varsities and Records. I made my living being a bike mechanic all through college :thumb:

Varsities and Records being ridden by skinny little college kids...

Context is key.

Someone 200+,300+, and 400+ is a whole different cyclist.

Also, there is imperfect communication here. Why do bike mechanics always think that their wheels, or their wrenching skills don't accrue failures or problems? This is inane. Most people are conflict averse. When your wheels fail most people aren't interested in bringing it back to let the smug wrench know that they failed, it isn't even worth it to get their money back.

They just quietly go somewhere else. Unless you see the bike, or the wheel come back in, don't assume it hasn't failed.

Wheelbuilding is an absolute art. There is a reason that people like Peter White make a living building high end severe service wheelsets.

That reason is bike mechanics who learned to wrench 'through college' that think they can build decent wheels. They can't, it takes only twice for a customer to learn this, and the hassle of wasting money invites seeking out those who really do know what they are doing.

Ignoring the OP is a near 400lbs student at OSU and claiming somehow that a college student only works on college kid's bikes, MTB states:


Varsities and Records being ridden by skinny little college kids...
Someone 200+,300+, and 400+ is a whole different cyclist....

I'll skip the rest and just say it's sad how many clydes think breaking spokes is part of riding. If anyone here is needing a good wheel. PM me, I'll build your wheel for free :)

I say it all the time. This Clydesdale forum is full of just fat ponys commenting about Clyde issues.

No real Clyde can get by on 25s. !25lb cyclists race on23s and 25s.

Anyone 6'5" and over, and anyone 300lbs and over will just blow through tubes constantly on 23s or 25s. Real Clydes need tires that will hold up to Clyde weight, and with sufficient width to minimize rim and spoke failure. Context is key.

Most couples on a racing tandem weigh less than Clyde. A 175lb man and his 125lb stoker are barely a Clyde.

On our Tandem we run Continental 38s the old TopTouring tires. Bombproof and safe. You don't want a sidewall blowout with 400-600lbs of people on two tires. On my single I run 28s, the new Continental TopContact (closest thing to TopTouring anymore)...

Sorry bud, I run 23's on my tandem with 32 spoke wheels. I'm 6'3 and too close to 250 right now with my stoker we are close to 500lbs on my "racing" tandem (26lb Calfee). I also run 60-11 gearing on both my tandem and single bike when I race (Yeah I'm a masher). Yes I race, in both ultra distance races (RAAM 3 times) and shorter TT's. I have no problems with well built low spoke count wheels on 23/25mm tires. If you go the speeds I go or put out the wattage I do.... Peter White makes great wheels (I have several of his wheels and would recommend him in a second) but he will make anything you ask for with out questioning. He made my Clyde (300lbs) friend a set of Zipp 404's laced to a schmidt dyno hub.

I agree with Mr IGH, it's all about the wheel builder...

I think the crime here mtnbke is that so many "clydes" have been cowed into thinking that their only solution is balloon tires and overbuilt tandem wheels for their singles because a mechanic is either too lazy or unskilled enough to build a quality wheels set.