Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Mountain Bikes vs. Road Bikes

This is my first post, so be gentle... :)
I am riding on a mountain bike - TREK 4300 '10. Started over a month ago, and really enjoying it.
Currently I am riding roads more then trails, to get in a better shape then I have started (~300lbs).

From reading the forum I have noticed more people are riding road bikes then mountain bikes.
Is this for a reason related to weight or just the selection which more people are doing?

Most riders like to ride farther as they get stronger.
A road bike will get that done faster.
I started on a MTB, the low gearing and kobby tires are not a fast way to go.

I started on a road bike, then purchased a used mountain bike for some dirt trails. I knew I wanted a road bike over a mountain bike or a hybrid bike. Others start out with the want to ride, and the LBS will guide them to what they think the person wants. Sometimes things change.

My first bike back was my Cannondale F600 which I bought to get back in shape and loose weight. I rode it exclusively on the street. I subesquently purchased my Lemond to ride with the road club at work. I ended up putting street slicks, Conti 1.3 on the Cannondale, to get the faster ride. I ended up with a Specialized Enduro for trail riding but most of my riding is on the road. My latest bike is a single speed Torelli.

It sounds like you are a good candidate for a road bike too. It's good to have both. One can never have too many bikes. There a guys here with a stable full of them. Heh...

OK... so from the suggested you are saying it would be harder on me to advance on the mountain bikes compared to a road bike?

No, you can get in Great Shape with a mtb.

For me, it came down to which was more convenient. I was living in NY when I started and only 1 mile away from a trail...road biking there is a bit of problem for a novice because the traffic is so aggressive. My first bike there was a mountain bike. After I moved to St. Louis, I'm almost exclusively on my road bike because driving to a trail 30 miles is more of a hassle than just hoping out the door and going.

A dainty road bike isn't really made for a clyde, however, many road bikes are perfectly fine, just some things need to be taken into consideration. Often a cyclocross bike with slicks is a good solution for a road biking clyde.

Figure out which kind of riding you'd like to do, and go from there! I don't recommend a mountain bike if you want to stay on the roads though. You will be frustrated with the speed and wear out components faster than necessary because you'll be one or two gears all the time...ask me how I know!

These forums are filled with people who were beginners at some point and are all at various stages on their journey. Welcome!

Once you reach a good condition you will want to go faster and farther.

Just depends on where and how you want to ride, what you want to get out of riding, and what your riding goals are as it relates to your personality.

I am partial to Mtn bikes. I love nothing more than to negotiate a fast flowing single track. Now, having said that, I am by no means a Mtn biker. I probably spend 80% of my bike time on streets and roads, but I have had the best year of riding this year, with 1,300 miles of mixed, hard road, gravel and trail. My bike is heavy and would be considered a "boat anchor" to most road bikers, but it suites my personality.

i borrowed a buddy's road bike and was just not that into it. The bottom line is that you need to find the riding that suites you, and not worry about the masses. You will probably own more bikes in the next few years than you did your entire childhood. it just comes with the activity.

No matter what you decide, put fun at the top of your list and you will be fine.

Have Fun

Jay

I ride a road bike on the road and one of two mountain bikes on trail. It makes sense to use the right equipment for the task. That said you can do whatever you want provided you just get out and ride. If you are more on road than trail, then I suggest getting road slick (tires) to replace knobbies if you haven't already.

OK... so from the suggested you are saying it would be harder on me to advance on the mountain bikes compared to a road bike?

Advance to what? What is your goal? Do you want to get in shape and lose weight? Then that mountain bike will do that for you. Keep in mind, riding a MTBike on road is like 2 - 3X's harder than using a road bike (more weight, more rolling resistance etc). Makes for better aerobics and cardio.

If you want to get really fast and ride in a club and wear fancy kits? Then you probably should consider a road bike.

Bottom line - just ride! :thumb:

My goal is to enjoy and to lose weight.
I am riding roads mostly since I can just get out of the house and just ride.
On the weekends I am to make the effort and ride trails.

I wish I had a close by trail to fully utilize the bikes. but I need to go by with what I got.

I am doing this for my soul more then anything else. up until now it is more then rewarding

Then don't worry about the bike... you have the right attitude! It is about the rider and your health and well being. If at some point, it becomes a real passion, then go bike shopping.

BTW I have a buddy who has 3 custom mountain bikes, 3 custom road bikes and a custom cyclecross and he doesn't ride... the bikes are just pretty decorations in his apartment... you see what I am getting at? ;)

OK... so from the suggested you are saying it would be harder on me to advance on the mountain bikes compared to a road bike?

I'd say you could get in better shape on a mountain bike than a road bike. Road bikes are wonderfully efficient. You can ride a long ways on very little energy. A mountain bike...with knobbies...is much harder to push along. More effort = more energy usage = more weight loss.

Ride 'em on dirt trails and things are even harder:thumb: Plus they are more fun there than on the road.

I used to ride a road bike, but once I got my first mountain bike I've never ridden anything else. I like the upright seating, low gears, and ability to run a wide variety of tires. If I want to go faster I put on semi-slick tires.

There's some loss in efficiency. Riding on the drops of a road bike improves your aerodynamics, but puts a crick in my neck and my back hurts. I'm willing to give up the efficiency for bigger tires that are more resistant to cracks and holes in the pavement and being able to see around myself more easily.

Lately I've turned to riding my full suspension bike everywhere, road and mountain. I like the way it soaks up the bumps, and again I'm willing to take the small penalty in efficiency.

There are also, get seated for this, HYBRID bikes!!!! Some are geared more towards road or mountain. Specialized makes two basic hybrids, The Sirrus, which is really a flat bar road bike, and the Crosstrail which is better for bike paths, smooth single track, dirt roads, etc.

I have the Sirrus. It has a nice upright position that makes cycling FUN, and doesnt put pressure on my shoulders (I think I have some damage from my prior job :( ) I also have a mountain bike for trails, or...uhh mountain biking :) I dislike drop bars with a passion, but thats me.

you dont have to ride a road bike. Sure, they are faster. But since when was speed what we were after to lose some weight? Don't discount some of the higher end hybrids, the Trek FX line or the Specialized sirrus line (among many others) that combine the more comfortable riding position of a mountain bike, while having road size wheels/tires and slightly more road friendly gearing. You dont need 28x34 gear combo on the road, short of some steep hills in my area!

My goal is to enjoy and to lose weight.
I am riding roads mostly since I can just get out of the house and just ride.
On the weekends I am to make the effort and ride trails.

I wish I had a close by trail to fully utilize the bikes. but I need to go by with what I got.

I am doing this for my soul more then anything else. up until now it is more then rewarding

A few months ago, I started off just like you. I started riding seriously on a 2002 K2 Attack FS MTB on the roads. I hit the road because the trails around my home would give me an inconsistent work out. Also, the trails required me to "shuttle" the MTB to and from, or ride a long ways on the road. So I stuck to the road.

I did that for almost 3 months and thought nothing of it. I got into good shape, I got stronger and faster, just by riding that bike. The only thing I did was to switch out the knobby tires to street tires (Continental Town & Countries). This improved the handling quite a bit. It also made the ride smoother and much, much quieter, and definitely rolled faster.

Because of the extra weight of that Full Suspension MTB, by body worked harder and I got into shape faster. Of course, every road cyclist including their grandpa and Athenas passed me on the road!

I have since switched to a road bike. The RB is so much faster! It also handles so much better and gets up and over hills sooner. Every ounce of my energy goes into forward motion. However, it sure was a lot less comfortable! Am I glad I made the switch? Hell yes! Now when I ride my old MTB it feels like I'm in a tank! However, it sure has a smooth and comfortable ride!

It is up to you though. If you are enjoying your MTB on the road and you don't wish to go faster, stick with it. Just go with street tires that are smoother and roll faster.

At 290 pounds and riding a road bike TREK 720 1985 (bought new) I find the selection of 27" tires limited. Currently running 33mm cross section World Tours (32-630). I was considering spreading rear to 135mm and moving to 700c wheels with 9 speed cassette .... instead I did this:

I just bought an old Specialized Stumpjumper (ebay with shipping $175).
I plan to eventually put Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on it (50-559) actual cross section around 45mm. This Stumpjumper has a U-brake in the back so it is late 80s vintage. I think the Fork is a 22.2 mm quill so standard road equipment can easily be used.

I am 6ft 1" with short legs (max standover is 34" puts me on bar without shoes) My TREK is at my max.

I bought a Stumpjumper with standover of 30.5 inches. Plan to ride it as it arrives and then start revising. I will likely put in a stem riser and transfer drop bars from and old free Fuji.

There are a lot of early mountain bikes without suspension that are available for far less than most bikes. I picked Stumpjumper because it had quality equipment and was the early mass produced bike.

My Trek has a Brooks saddle the B33 which I recommend for those around 280 lbs.

With the exception of Rivendell Atlantis it is hard to find a frame that will accept a 45mm tire and fenders. I was considering a Surly LHT but figured this would be an interesting experiment.

When I looked at Specialized Stumperjumpers from the 80s they look easy to convert into Cycle camping worthy vehicles.

Since I am in Western Washington all of those MTB gears will be used when on the road as we have hills and mountains.

I live in rural Nebraska at the moment... I like to take the MTB out on county roads and ride 20+ miles on graded gravel roads... NO TRAFFIC... more scenic and just a nice place to ride... plus I ride my MTB in town for errands and primary transportation...

but the road bike is faster and speed = fun... 30 mile rides are a great workout!!!

so keep the 4300 get in better shape and start hitting some singletracks in your area and get a roadie for fast long rides!!!

my plan is to ride... where ever when ever... just try to ride...

Just depends on where and how you want to ride, what you want to get out of riding, and what your riding goals are as it relates to your personality.

...

No matter what you decide, put fun at the top of your list and you will be fine.

Have Fun

Jay

Could not have said it better myself. I chose to be a bicycle commuter. That's my style. I ride what some call a "hybrid". I call it my commuter bycicle. I commute 5-6 days per week, 10 miles one way, to-and-from school. I probably won't ride more than 25 miles at one time in my life. As I said on another board, the probability of my riding 100 miles, for any reason, is about the same as my winning the Powerball lottery jackpot.

Still, I enjoy riding, and have made my choice and my commitment to continue doing so. Since mid-May I've dropped 37 lbs. My resting heart rate has gone from 82 to around 60. My bp has dropped into a range many 20-year-olds don't achieve. I've dropped 5 inches around the middle, and continue to lose both weight and inches. I feel healthier and stronger overall than I've felt in last 10-15 years of my life.

So, decide what you want, then learn how to achieve the goals you set. If you want to be a cyclist... Congratulations! You already are.

Keep riding!

the people saying that a mtb will help you lose weight faster due to it being inefficient are not going fast enough on their road bikes ;)

sticking with the mtb is fine... get some slicks if you are mostly on the road

the people saying that a mtb will help you lose weight faster due to it being inefficient are not going fast enough on their road bikes ;)

sticking with the mtb is fine... get some slicks if you are mostly on the road

Do get slicks. Trail tyres are prone to nasty skidding problems on the road - especially if you have to brake or turn hard. The grip "walks". And no, the grip doesn't help in rain. Get slicks.

I moved to a road cycling because riding trails on an mtb kicks up a bunch of dirt that *needs* to be cleaned and I dont have time to clean bikes after every (trail) ride. Riding on road with knobby tires seemed like a waste to me.

Oh, and I know it's mainly engine, but looks wise, road bikes are more appealing to me. Having said that, maybe one day I'll get an mtb again coz riding trails is definitely more fun.

The more I ride, the more I come to love all aspects of cycling. I love road bikes, mountain bikes, and cyclocross. If you love em all, ride em all. Cyclecross is the best of both worlds, but I take my mountain bike places where I would never take my Cross bike.

the people saying that a mtb will help you lose weight faster due to it being inefficient are not going fast enough on their road bikes ;)

sticking with the mtb is fine... get some slicks if you are mostly on the road

I ride plenty fast enough and far enough on my road bike. A mountain bike takes more energy to push through the air...weight and aerodynamics work against you on an upright mountain bike.

The point of weight loss is to use more energy than you take in. Bicycles are incredibly efficient users of energy. Nothing else on the planet touches it in terms of miles per calorie. A mountain bike is less efficient than a road bike in all aspects. A 25 mile ride on a mountain bike (even with slicks) takes much more effort...and burns more calories:thumb:...than a road bike does. Keep the knobbies on and you'll burn even more energy. Take the knobbies out on dirt (up hill and down) and you'll burn even more.

Do get slicks. Trail tyres are prone to nasty skidding problems on the road - especially if you have to brake or turn hard. The grip "walks". And no, the grip doesn't help in rain. Get slicks.

I disagree. I ride knobbies all winter long on ice and snow and dry pavement. I corner just a hard on full knobbies as I do on regular road tires. Perhaps harder. Pavement isn't any slicker or harder to grip than rocks and hardpack are. In fact you are likely to run across situations off-road where the grip is less than you'll find on the road. That's what the knobs are for...grip:rolleyes:

One of the reasons mountain bikes are harder to move down the road...so to speak...is because the knobs grip so well. That buzz you hear with knobbies on pavement is due to the increased grip of each knob before it lets go of the pavement. The grip may walk as each individual knob releases grip but the knobs go further around the casing than other treads do. If the grip is lost on one row of knobs, there is another one further out to take the load. You'd have to get almost parallel to the ground for the knobs to let go completely and you are likely to crash at that angle with a road bike. They have a limit to grip too:rolleyes:

I moved to a road cycling because riding trails on an mtb kicks up a bunch of dirt that *needs* to be cleaned and I dont have time to clean bikes after every (trail) ride.

Mountain bikes don't need to be cleaned after each ride. Mountain bikes are like pigs...they are happier if they are dirty. If your drive train collects dirt and grit, you need to use a lubricant that doesn't attract dirt:rolleyes:


Riding on road with knobby tires seemed like a waste to me.

You guys are completely missing the point. Weight loss is usually why we ride bikes, at least on this forum. Simple equation: Weight loss = calories used. Use more calories, lose more weight.

Road bikes are optimized for efficiency. There has been lots and lots of money poured into road bike design to make them more efficient. They are wonderful machines. But they aren't the best vehicle for weight loss. Even if you spend hours and hours and hours riding them, your energy usage is still lower than if you were to spend the time running, skipping rope or even mountain biking.

No, you can get in Great Shape with a mtb.
this is where i am at.. i have a trek 7200 that i use for paved trails and road use. i wanted to try mountain biking so i contacted the local bike shop where i purchased the trek and they offered me a mountain bike as a demo to try for 1 week. today i picked it up and hit the trails that i can not ride with my trek. WHAT A WORK OUT! dam what a work out ... i mean it... nothing like my trek..BUT on the way home i rode the road and i got more speed them my trek. why? different gearing i guess..
the loaner was a Fuji outland pro full suspension and the sweetness is i was able to lock out the forks and the lower suspension..

I ride around on a Trek 3900 set up for the mountain, and love it. I really enjoy sitting on the bike and pumping the pedals. A few weeks ago I rode my brother Specialized rode bike, and the difference was beyond description. I'd like a road bike, but a good one is a bit out of my price range, and the riding stance is a bit to aggressive for me, so I've been looking into getting a hybrid. There is a LBS here that has the Trek FX 1.2 on sale for less then $400.00. So I'm trying to convince myself to get it. :)

Here is the deal for me.
I love speed .. but I never speed in my car because I am trying to be responsible. So by definition I would love to have a road bike .
The issue is that I only have 20 km(12 miles) round trip commute and I really want to get at 80kg (180 pounds) as soon as possible. So I promised myself a road bike when I get at 80 kg. Meanwhile I ride a hybrid/city bike to work and with the tire format I am sure I will loose a lot of weight. Since I started dieting (September 8th) I already lost 13.5 kg (27 pounds I guess)and I think the more MTB style bike will get me faster to my goal on my short commute.I am already faster (I commute by bike for 2-3 months a year since 2005) by 2-3 km/h and a lot faster on hills when going up(it still hurts though).

I think that it all depends on a lot of parameters.

here is a definite statement: the best way to get one to do the most effort on a bike (and lose 'more weight' - actually spend more calories, because weight loss has a lot to do with what one puts in) is to ride a fixie with a 53/11 config (or something like that - NOT THAT ENJOYABLE)

back to the 'road' vs a 'mountain' bike debate:

There are some situations where a 'mountain bike' will be slower than a 'road bike' (mainly in pavement/tall flat grass/etc) and there are several situations where a 'road bike' will be slower than a 'mountain bike' (mud/gravel/trails with tree roots etc exposed).

But.... in the end, it's the engine that matters. get yourself in decent shape and chose the weapon of your choice based on the ride you have to do.

(some of us are cope-outs and ride cross bike indiscriminately :) )

>>
riginally Posted by meanwhile View Post
Do get slicks. Trail tyres are prone to nasty skidding problems on the road - especially if you have to brake or turn hard. The grip "walks". And no, the grip doesn't help in rain. Get slicks.
<<
I disagree.


Yes, I know. I don't care.



I ride knobbies all winter long on ice and snow and dry pavement.


People do a lot of stupid things. Knobbies are a good choice for snow, but a stupid one for dry pavement. They're not the same thing. Of course in winter you might have use knobbies for the snow and then ride them on dry pavement occasionally - but you should do so knowing that you can't push them as far as a good slick.



I corner just a hard on full knobbies as I do on regular road tires. Perhaps harder. Pavement isn't any slicker or harder to grip than rocks and hardpack are.


It's not harder or slicker than rock, but who has ever seen a tyre designed entirely for rock? It is substantially different to hardpack. And if you actually look (intelligently) at a "hardpack" tyre (which actually means a tyre that works in mud without being suicidal to run on hardpack) you'll see that it has a very different tread design to a standard off road tyre: the teeth are square instead of blade shaped - this is to minimize the walking/squirming I referred to, at the cost of reduced grip in the soft stuff. This the designed used on state of the art adventure touring tyres like the Marathon Extreme, for the same reason.



In fact you are likely to run across situations off-road where the grip is less than you'll find on the road. That's what the knobs are for...grip:rolleyes:


This is dangerous silliness. The knobs are for grip on soft ground. They work by engaging (ie sticking into) a soft surface like mud or gravel. They can't do this on pavement! Your argument is exactly the same as if you were arguing that spiked soccer shoes would have better grip on hard pavement than carbon-rubber soled sports shoes. Which is to say, ridiculous.

To quote one of the world's best bicycle tire companies, Schwalbe:



www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

On a normal, smooth road, the tread has only limited influence on the ride properties. The grip generated by the tire on the road is almost exclusively the result of the rubber compound. Unlike a car, a bicycle will not aquaplane as the contact area is so much smaller and the contact pressure is much higher. The floating effect of aquaplaning could only theoretically be achieved on a bicycle ridden at speeds over 200 km/h. Off road, the tread is very important. In this situation the tread establishes an interlocking cog-like connection with the ground and enables the transmission of all driving, braking and steering forces. On rough roads, the tread can also contribute to better control.

...Even in wet conditions, on a normal, smooth road, a slick tire actually provides better grip than a tire with a tread, because the contact area is larger.


Back to whats-his-name:



One of the reasons mountain bikes are harder to move down the road...so to speak...is because the knobs grip so well. That buzz you hear with knobbies on pavement is due to the increased grip of each knob before it lets go of the pavement.


This shows vast ignorance of how tyres work. Grip is frictional. And friction isn't the force that resists tyre movement - that's hysteresis energy. (I'm guessing at this point that your title of "scientist" is self awarded. And also that you don't know what hysteresis energy is.) In fact, a tyre can have superior grip AND superior speed without any contradiction at all. (Whereas combing durability with speed is hard, because hysteresis energy rises with the thickness of the tyre's skin.)

Oh - and that buzzing is simply the sound of rubber knobs bending. "Grip" doesn't create noise - only movement does! It's this bending that creates handling problems for knobblies on the road.



The grip may walk as each individual knob releases grip but the knobs go further around the casing than other treads do. If the grip is lost on one row of knobs, there is another one further out to take the load.


You obviously don't understand what the walking-grip problem means, which is that the bike will "walk" sideways in a severe turn. It has nothing to do with the bike changing angle to the road.



You'd have to get almost parallel to the ground for the knobs to let go completely and you are likely to crash at that angle with a road bike. They have a limit to grip too:rolleyes:
[/quote]

Again, this is dangerously silly. The bike "walks" - it doesn't "bend". To quote St Sheldon:



http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

Knobby treads actually give worse traction on hard surfaces! This is because the knobs can bend under side loads, while a smooth tread cannot.

The bending of knobs can cause discontinuities in handling; the tire grips OK for mild cornering, but as cornering force exceeds some critical value, the knobs start to bend and the traction suddenly goes to Hell in a handbasket.


The reason you've never noticed is this is probably a combination of i. you don't notice much, and ii. you're probably a timid poor bike handler and haven't - and maybe couldn't - get a bike into a turn sharp enough to show "walk" clearly.

Now, I certainly don't blame you for not knowing the above - most people don't. But there is a difference between passive and active ignorance. Making stuff up to justify an un-informed position - especially on a key safety issue - is just wrong.

Yes, I know. I d... <snip> ...ong.

I agree with all the facts as presented... but I might have said it with a little less animosity... or i might not have :thumb:

Yes, I know. I don't care.

For not caring, you sure have provided a lot of verbage:rolleyes:



People do a lot of stupid things. Knobbies are a good choice for snow, but a stupid one for dry pavement. They're not the same thing. Of course in winter you might have use knobbies for the snow and then ride them on dry pavement occasionally - but you should do so knowing that you can't push them as far as a good slick.

Knobbies do just fine on dry pavement. You make it sound like putting knobbies on a bike and then going riding on dry pavement is the quickest way to go horizontal and crash that there is. Just because a knobby touches pavement doesn't mean that you are going to lose control of the bike.

And I have, and do, push them just as far as on corners as any road tire I've ever used.


It's not harder or slicker than rock, but who has ever seen a tyre designed entirely for rock? It is substantially different to hardpack. And if you actually look (intelligently) at a "hardpack" tyre (which actually means a tyre that works in mud without being suicidal to run on hardpack) you'll see that it has a very different tread design to a standard off road tyre: the teeth are square instead of blade shaped - this is to minimize the walking/squirming I referred to, at the cost of reduced grip in the soft stuff. This the designed used on state of the art adventure touring tyres like the Marathon Extreme, for the same reason.

Mountain bike tires are designed for variety of different terrains. There are very few that are designed specifically for one type of condition. You'll find some that work better in mud and some that work better on rocks. Hardpack tires tend not to have square knobs but to be more chevron in tread design. Look at the Marathon Extreme or the Michelin XC dry for example. Neither is has what I would call a square block to the tire tread. This

http://www.schwalbetires.com/files/l_img_blacksharkmud.gif

is a square block soft condition tire. And, no I'd probably not use that one on pavement. The knobs are too widely spaced and the tire would definitely be a handful on cornering.

This tire
http://www.panaracer.com/eng/products/tread/firexcpro210.gif
,the Panaracer Fire XC, does have square knobs but they are more tightly packed and would corner in all conditions better than the Mud Shark...including rock, hardpack and pavement. Mountain bike tire manufacturers aren't stupid when it comes to tread design nor to how to make a bike tire with predictable handling. Panaracer hardens the edge knobs to resist bending and walking.



This is dangerous silliness. The knobs are for grip on soft ground. They work by engaging (ie sticking into) a soft surface like mud or gravel. They can't do this on pavement! Your argument is exactly the same as if you were arguing that spiked soccer shoes would have better grip on hard pavement than carbon-rubber soled sports shoes. Which is to say, ridiculous.

Mountain bike tires are made to grip on all kinds of ground not just soft ground. Perhaps if you are riding primarily in bogs, a tire for soft ground is called for. For most of the rest of the world, mountain biking involves riding on surfaces that range from snow to mud to sand to rocks to granite sheets and slick rock. Granite and slick rock are about the same as riding on pavement (I have some experience with all of these:rolleyes:)

If you are going to use an analogy, why not use a valid one? Mountain bike tires aren't hardened like steel spikes. Most mountain bike tire rubber is pretty soft...better grip on quickly changing surfaces. A far better analogy would be wearing lugged sole boots on hard pavement vs wearing running shoes. You aren't going to automatically fall over because you are wearing hiking boots on a hard surface. You can even run on a hard surface without falling over in them. Mountain bike tires are the same thing.


Back to whats-his-name:

I have a name. I post my name with each post. I even post my face with each post. I even say where I live. I come here and am willing to back up what I say with that name. I don't, like so many people here, hide behind the anonymity like you do. I even go the extra mile and pay for this service instead of leeching off other people.

I have a name and you can use it.


This shows vast ignorance of how tyres work. Grip is frictional. And friction isn't the force that resists tyre movement - that's hysteresis energy. (I'm guessing at this point that your title of "scientist" is self awarded. And also that you don't know what hysteresis energy is.) In fact, a tyre can have superior grip AND superior speed without any contradiction at all. (Whereas combing durability with speed is hard, because hysteresis energy rises with the thickness of the tyre's skin.)

Oh - and that buzzing is simply the sound of rubber knobs bending. "Grip" doesn't create noise - only movement does! It's this bending that creates handling problems for knobblies on the road.

No. The title of scientist isn't self awarded. I am a research chemist. And damned proud of it. Your comments are boarding on insults.

Surface adhesion, i.e. friction, is part of the hysteresis equation. A soft material, like rubber, adheres to the surface and deforms with the surface more then a hard material like steel (for example). That constant making and breaking contact with the ground is the friction part of the equation...the 'grip' of the tire. In order to calculate the force of rolling resistance, you have to know the coefficient of rolling friction, i.e. the grip of the object.

Oh, and that buzzing of the knobs bending wouldn't happen without the knobs sticking to the ground in the first place. Sticking to the ground is friction.


You obviously don't understand what the walking-grip problem means, which is that the bike will "walk" sideways in a severe turn. It has nothing to do with the bike changing angle to the road.

The reason you've never noticed is this is probably a combination of i. you don't notice much, and ii. you're probably a timid poor bike handler and haven't - and maybe couldn't - get a bike into a turn sharp enough to show "walk" clearly.

Walking sideways in a turn is due to the tire losing cohesion with the road (there's that pesky friction again:rolleyes:). Knobs on a tire will bend and allow the tire to walk or move sideways during hard cornering efforts. But, unless you are at a severe lean angle that takes you outside the outer row of knobs, the next row of knobs come in contact with the ground as the last one starts to let go. On some tires, like the Panaracers, the outer knobs are hardened so that they resist bending. A failsafe, of sorts. Because of the varying conditions that mountain bike tires have to deal with, they are designed to take walking during cornering into account.

Again, you are flirting with personal attack in regards to my bicycle handling skills. I don't know you. You don't know me. You have no idea how or where or in what condition I ride. I have provided plenty of clues that I'm not what anyone would call a timid rider. Nor could I be called a poor bicycle handler. You are welcome to follow me down a 50mph+ descent (40 mph+ on dirt) if you like.


Now, I certainly don't blame you for not knowing the above - most people don't. But there is a difference between passive and active ignorance. Making stuff up to justify an un-informed position - especially on a key safety issue - is just wrong.

A mountain bike, with knobbies, can be ridden on pavement. You imply that anyone doing so will automatically crash and/or die. This is patently false. While some precautions should be taken...understanding how the bike handles is one of them and being experienced at riding on dirt doesn't hurt...you aren't going to automatically crash if your knobs hit pavement.

And riding knobs on pavement does take more energy. Even riding a tire designed for fast hardpack takes more energy than a narrow high pressure tire does. And using more energy, i.e. burning more calories, is what this thread was all about.

It's obvious that you don't know the first thing about this subject! Why post as if you do? If someone was stupid enough to believe you they could literally die as a result - I saw someone almost wipe into traffic at 30mph once because of tyre walk.

Plus I can't imagine it's fun having your ignorance and fakery dissected in public.

Meanwhile,

If you are going to say anything to me, you can do it publicly rather than in private messages.

I have/do both. For commutes and distance on road I use my road bike. However the mountain bike is a lot more fun and takes you to a lot more places that "get you away from it all"

Meanwhile,

If you are going to say anything to me, you can do it public rather than in private messages.

:popcorn:

A knobby tired mtb will make you exert more effort for a given distance when compared to a road bike with slicks. In other words, if you ride 10 miles per day, you will get fitter riding an mtb than a rb.

On the other hand, if you do your training based on time, then a rb will get you to a further distance in any given time.

It depends if your training is time-based or distance-based. But in any case, dont worry about it, just ride your bike.

A knobby tired mtb will make you exert more effort for a given distance when compared to a road bike with slicks. In other words, if you ride 10 miles per day, you will get fitter riding an mtb than a rb.

On the other hand, if you do your training based on time, then a rb will get you to a further distance in any given time.

It depends if your training is time-based or distance-based. But in any case, dont worry about it, just ride your bike.

That is what I've been saying all along. More energy used = more weight lost.

This is my first post, so be gentle... :)
I am riding on a mountain bike - TREK 4300 '10. Started over a month ago, and really enjoying it.
Currently I am riding roads more then trails, to get in a better shape then I have started (~300lbs).

From reading the forum I have noticed more people are riding road bikes then mountain bikes.
Is this for a reason related to weight or just the selection which more people are doing?

The boundaries between mountain bikes and road bikes aren't as clear cut as one would think. Modern road bike geometry is essentially mountain bike geometry anyway. The primary difference is 700c wheelsets as opposed to 26" wheelsets (622BCD vs 559BCD).

If you threw a set of Nitto Albatross bars on your mountain bike and threw on some 26"x1.25" 'road' tires onto it you'd completely transform the bike.

Check out Grant's comments at Rivendell about why he likes mountain bikes set up with Albatross bars (click on 'read about it'):

Albatross Bars (http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/handlebars_stems_and_tape?page=2#product=16-127)

I think their bikes are heavy and flexy (but stunningly beautiful), but the man knows more about bicycles than just about anyone...he literally invented mountain bike geometry. Which is interesting, because his passion isn't for mountain bikes at all...but country bikes.

Spend some time on the Rivendell website and you'll learn there are very good reasons to not want a road bike, that is a 'racing' style road bike.

As a rule they are almost always poorly fit by the local bike shop (learning that the LBS just doesn't have the 'real' knowledge, or your best interests at heart to be your ally in cycling is a very good first lesson), with either the outright wrong frame size (but in stock and available to sell), to almost always having the wrong stem (length, angle, etc.). Most cyclists, even serious roadies have never been properly fitted, and even though they own entire stables of bikes (some worth as much as $10k) many of them are complete compromises in terms of proper fit.

A pure road 'racing' bike puts you in a more aggressive aerodynamic position. This is critical in competitive cycling, as wind resistance accounts for 2/3rds of the cyclists wattage output.

However, Clydesdales and fat ponys are not well disposed to being in an aggressive road position anyway. It will result in sore wrists (and chronic wrist problems), a sore back and neck, and other muscular skeletal issues. Fat people were never meant to ride in a road bike position...

For whatever reason even the most casual cyclist harbors fantasies of being a 'serious' cyclist (read secret fantasy racer). The reason for this is that riding a bike is fun. It brings out some repressed kid in all of us that wants to go fast and scream "Wheeee".

There is a whole community of BOBish folks that disdain road bikes, and prefer bikes built up on 26" wheels.

Those bikes aren't sexy, they usually aren't sold in bike shops, and you can almost certainly convert what you have into one for a minimal cost of components anyway.

A knobby tired mtb will make you exert more effort for a given distance when compared to a road bike with slicks. In other words, if you ride 10 miles per day, you will get fitter riding an mtb than a rb.

On the other hand, if you do your training based on time, then a rb will get you to a further distance in any given time.

It depends if your training is time-based or distance-based. But in any case, dont worry about it, just ride your bike.

this is what i was trying to say...i go on a ride and burn X amount of calories...if i ride a mtb i still burn X i just go slower and less far. If you actually do the same ride at the same speed and length it will of course burn more.

my suggestion of getting slicks was for connivence as it is somewhat practical to go further and faster for a given amount of energy. cyccommute is right in saying they are not as treacherous as some are making them sound, but at they do function better.

I really don't see how this topic can get so heated- it seems very simplistic to me. Both! I love my Yeti 575, and riding the trails around moab for days on end...there is no greater adrenalin rush.... however there are many days where nothing hits the spot better than taking a nice 2-3 hour road ride. Both bikes are made for vastly different purposes, and are significantly different to ride. That being said- get the best of both worlds, save up, and get one of each! :)

I am totally with machwon...

get both!!!

Enjoy whatever you get. You will know when you need to upgrade. Sooner than you think but enjoy what you have for the time and being.

What was the OP's question again? :rolleyes:

I have both and as far as I'm concerned they both have a place. I find that while riding the MTB I don't go as hard unless it's some pretty hardcore single track plus as they are less effecient you can't or I can't rid ehtem for as long at a high level than I can my roadbike. As for which gives you a better workout, that's debatable. My avg MTB ride is 20-25km my average roadbike ride is 80km. I find I burn more calories on my roadbike as I am in my fat burning HR for longer periods of time.

Ride your mtb, until you want something else. Than get something else, until you want something else. See where this is going:)