Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Fc508

Anyone here heading out this weekend for some racing in the desert? I'll be there for my 9th finish (hopefully). I'll be on the tandem this year. If you haven't done the 508 it's an awesome race! There is nothing more magical than riding through Death Valley at midnight.

Good luck! Be sure to let us know some tales of glory and suffering when you're back and rested.... That race is and has been on my "to do" list. One of these days!

Representing the crazies around here, the great Ram. Go Ram!

I'll be there on Team Blue Whale. We'll be setting a new course record.... well, if 45:59.99 counts as a record. we might. :)

I'll be there as well, racing solo as 'Unladen Swallow'. This will be my first 508, but second ultra race: I did the HD500 last year. Two of my crew members have done the 508 twice (both were on 4X 'Kites' two years ago, and my fiancee did it solo last year as 'Nanook' and Dan was 'Guanaco' (he was to be on 4X 'Clownfish' this year but pulled a hamstring, so one of my crew is swapping places with him...

My goal is a sub-36 hour time, but really I just want to finish. Especially if the weather turns into fierce headwinds like it's apparently threatening to. Should be fun!:D

This weekend I'm repping Team Couch Monkey and sitting around the house.

Good luck to everyone racing, I'll be watching for updates.

I'll be there on Team Blue Whale. We'll be setting a new course record.... well, if 45:59.99 counts as a record. we might. :)

Records are meant to be broken! :) I've set(or broke) three 508 course records and only one is still standing. It'll probably be broken this year as well. I'm sure you guys will do much better than 45:59:99 though! I bet you'll be much closer to 30hrs rather than 45hrs.


I checked the weather yesterday and the highs are going to be in the high 80's to mid 90's with winds on Saturday of 15+mph out of the SW. That's looking pretty good!

I'll be there as well, racing solo as 'Unladen Swallow'. This will be my first 508, but second ultra race: I did the HD500 last year. Two of my crew members have done the 508 twice (both were on 4X 'Kites' two years ago, and my fiancee did it solo last year as 'Nanook' and Dan was 'Guanaco' (he was to be on 4X 'Clownfish' this year but pulled a hamstring, so one of my crew is swapping places with him...

My goal is a sub-36 hour time, but really I just want to finish. Especially if the weather turns into fierce headwinds like it's apparently threatening to. Should be fun!:D

Would that be an African or European Swallow? :roflmao2: Sounds like you've got a great crew, that always helps on a solo effort. I think you'll find the FC508 a little easier than the Hoo Doo. The course isn't any easier but the fact that it is all pretty close to sea level makes the effort easier (if that makes sense). When you see the Calfee tandem come screaming by make sure to wave! :) The headwinds may be up this year but they will be nothing like what we had in 2004. That was really ugly!

Sure will! Look for the Look 595 with flames... ;)

I'll probably be wearing my San Jose Bike Club jersey on Saturday (the one in my profile pic!).

We'll be the one in the JDRF RAAM jerseys on the naked Calfee's. A look 595 with flames sounds fast! :)

Yeah, the bike's fast... The motor is a bit anemic. ;)

You can track my dad's progress here, on 2x Team Wolfman. (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0Qqhs35bIS9txp0XvuKFDcfD54DOgE7HM) He's doing the even numbered legs on a two man team, and they're not allowed to follow close by until later, so it doesn't look like the team is moving yet. But check back later.
Others using Spot GPS:
Jim "Pancake Tortise" Ryan (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=00LpSrrkkdVDXUDY0jV1S5pazzOxTtAZl)
Gary "Bear" Baierl (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0oxHkRBeXV7pE597lsAlj52Vvo8afrsxU)

Furnace Creek 508 website:

http://www.the508.com/


But I'm not sure how to follow the race from there ... the webcast, maybe?

Furnace Creek 508 website:

http://www.the508.com/

But I'm not sure how to follow the race from there ... the webcast, maybe?

I think that just shows the finish line. Try http://www.the508.com/2009web/index.html

You can get time splits for the 8 stages on the website here (http://dbase.adventurecorps.com/results508.php?fc_eid=50&fcr=Go). There are three riders using a Spot GPS, and you can see their progress on the websites (links above).

Homeyba's team made it in what I consider a very decent time.



Looking at the photos makes me want to get back into some serious long distance cycling again. <<sigh>>

http://www.the508.com/2009web/shows/2009show_CK13/images/_A056111.jpg

Nice job Vireo!! Posted a ride report yet?

Nice job Vireo!! Posted a ride report yet?

I haven't start working on it yet:)

but here is a little info so far (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=9805954&posted=1#post9805954)and my blog (http://www.epictrain.blogspot.com)too.

Would that be an African or European Swallow? :roflmao2: Sounds like you've got a great crew, that always helps on a solo effort. I think you'll find the FC508 a little easier than the Hoo Doo. The course isn't any easier but the fact that it is all pretty close to sea level makes the effort easier (if that makes sense). When you see the Calfee tandem come screaming by make sure to wave! :) The headwinds may be up this year but they will be nothing like what we had in 2004. That was really ugly!

Well, the consensus were that the winds on the 2009 FC508 were the worst ever. I won't argue with that, as I got blown into ditch and clear off of my bike at Mormon Point.

Which is harder, the HooDoo or the 508?

HooDoo has the elevation. But you can train for that.
FC508 has the crappy roads, but you can bring a second bike to deal with that.
HooDoo has the cold and wind.
FC has the heat and wind.

I say it's impossible to say. As with all long rides, the weather is the wild card, and both the HooDoo and the FC508, have plenty of wild cards in the deck and are more than willing to dish them out.

http://www.the508.com/2009web/shows/2009show_CK13/images/_A056073.jpg
Team Blue Whale (Don, me, Raghu and Chris)

The Blue Whales finished in 39:55. Five minutes faster than our goal time.

Homeyba's team made it in what I consider a very decent time.



Looking at the photos makes me want to get back into some serious long distance cycling again. <<sigh>>


Patience grasshopper. You'll be back at it before you know it! It's better to make sure you're healed up properly!

I think I can safely say that you probalby didn't want to be out there in Death Valley last weekend with 50mph headwinds! That was pretty ugly!

I crewed for Charlie "Water Dragon" Engle. He got absolutely assaulted in Death Valley. I have never even heard of conditions like that. It is really hard to convey how impossible the weather conditions were there. He made it in 4th place and in 33+ hours. He broke the Death Valley cup record which stood for 10 years prior to this. He rode the first 200 miles in 9 hours but once we got into death valley, it was a different story. Kostman himself stated that it was the worst conditions he has seen in the entire history of the event. I find it hard to believe that conditions could have been much worse. There were a lot of DNFs this year, but my hat goes off to anyone who dared to turn a pedal in Death Valley. Great race.

Ragsdale is an animal, BTW. He took it to emde and won. From what it sounds like talking to the RAM, it was an epic battle.

Well, the consensus were that the winds on the 2009 FC508 were the worst ever. I won't argue with that, as I got blown into ditch and clear off of my bike at Mormon Point.

Which is harder, the HooDoo or the 508?

HooDoo has the elevation. But you can train for that.
FC508 has the crappy roads, but you can bring a second bike to deal with that.
HooDoo has the cold and wind.
FC has the heat and wind.

I say it's impossible to say. As with all long rides, the weather is the wild card, and both the HooDoo and the FC508, have plenty of wild cards in the deck and are more than willing to dish them out.

A guess it is academic but having ridden in both 04 and this year, I still think the winds in 04 were stronger in Death Valley. What made this year worse (and I think it was worse) was that the winds were bad over much more of the course. Those headwinds between Shoshone and Baker were very demoralizing.

I agree that the difficulty of the Hoo Doo and 508 is pretty much a wash. The only major difference being altitude. You can acclimatize yourself a bit to the altitude but that is never 100%.

Just a comment or two; all those who finished, despite possibly being behind what was figured on running time, huge kudos! There was a lot of crap flying around out there and to get thru it was really impressive! As for how bad the weather was - I live down here on the desert and see this stuff all the time - for the event w/e, it was pretty nasty, but not the worst I've experienced. The weather during DVD-Spring '07 was a lot more intense, having wind shears [similar to tornadic down drafts] in the 60-65 MPH range. There was more stuff flying thru the air then than this past w/e.

I talked with all the riders who came thru TS4, whether you remember me or not; there was much carnage between Furnace Creek and Shoshone. For a 75 mile run, which should take 4-4½ hours under anything near decent conditions, it was taking many riders upwards of 8 to 11 hours! Some of those large numbers include some down time, huddled behind support vehicles to avoid the worst of the blowing stuff, or taking a nap in anticipation of better conditions as the sun came up. Of the 98 totems that started, I recorded 24 DNF's at Shoshone alone. I have no knowledge of how many pulled the pin prior to that, nor subsequently on the way to Baker/Kelso, et al. But, that was a huge number by itself!

As I mentioned, I live down here and ride out in DV and environs all the time. I've experienced these conditions before, and was not terribly surprised by them. To those who came to ride who did not have much desert experience [yes, it's different], and who got thru Shoshone, heading for Baker, and ultimately Twenty-Nine Palms for a finish, HUGE congrats! That was a big job, well done!

FWIW, I've been riding ultra events for 20+ years, and have over 50 CA doubles to my credit, so I have a bit of perspective on this.

Also FWIW, I rode over Salsberry to Ashford Mill this AM and the winds were starting up AGAIN! This time out of the north, but just a bit under what was experienced over the last w/e. Looks like another "fun time" this w/e!!
-dg, TS4

Well, the consensus were that the winds on the 2009 FC508 were the worst ever. I won't argue with that, as I got blown into ditch and clear off of my bike at Mormon Point.

Which is harder, the HooDoo or the 508?

HooDoo has the elevation. But you can train for that.
FC508 has the crappy roads, but you can bring a second bike to deal with that.
HooDoo has the cold and wind.
FC has the heat and wind.

I say it's impossible to say. As with all long rides, the weather is the wild card, and both the HooDoo and the FC508, have plenty of wild cards in the deck and are more than willing to dish them out.

I had the extremes of weather for both rides ( bad weather for '08 HooDoo and '09 FC508; and good weather for '08 FC508 and '09 HooDoo (the last two I crewed for my fiancee on).

With good weather, The 508 is considerably easier than HooDoo: last year, Joan had massive tailwinds for the first 200 miles and did them in 10:55 (45 minutes faster than I did this year) on her way to a 36:22 finish and 6th place solo woman. This year we had almost the same kind of wind, but it didn't die down at night. In bad weather, Th3 508 can easily be as hard as HooDoo: the 23 miles from Furnace Creek to 5 miles past Badwater (where I dropped out) took 6 hours! Compare that to 4 hours for the 30 mile climb to Cedar Breaks from Panguitch with temperatures into the low 30s!

For the good weather ones... Joan did HooDoo nearly 9 hours slower than the 508. But then, she had no tailwinds anywhere on the course to push her along at 20+ mph for long distances. Cedar Breaks took her about 3 hours to climb with temps only dipping to 55. It was considerably nicer than when I did it! The altitude still gets to those of us who essentially live at sea level. But I think the wind is far worse to deal with.

The other thing is that the 508 can be incredibly hot as well. It hasn't happened the last couple of years. But it was 107 in Baker just three weeks ago when we came through after HooDoo. If it was like that, the 508 could certainly have been even harder!

Of the three ultra races I've been to (HooDoo, The 508 and Race Across Oregon (which Joan attempted this year)), RAO is the toughest course. The climbs are unrelenting and keep coming at you with little rest between. And it's normally hot out there in July. The temps were well into the 90s both days, and there was lightning, hail and wind (the 20 mile 'descent' before Maupin).

Just a comment or two; all those who finished, despite possibly being behind what was figured on running time, huge kudos! There was a lot of crap flying around out there and to get thru it was really impressive! As for how bad the weather was - I live down here on the desert and see this stuff all the time - for the event w/e, it was pretty nasty, but not the worst I've experienced. The weather during DVD-Spring '07 was a lot more intense, having wind shears [similar to tornadic down drafts] in the 60-65 MPH range. There was more stuff flying thru the air then than this past w/e.

I talked with all the riders who came thru TS4, whether you remember me or not; there was much carnage between Furnace Creek and Shoshone. For a 75 mile run, which should take 4-4½ hours under anything near decent conditions, it was taking many riders upwards of 8 to 11 hours! Some of those large numbers include some down time, huddled behind support vehicles to avoid the worst of the blowing stuff, or taking a nap in anticipation of better conditions as the sun came up. Of the 98 totems that started, I recorded 24 DNF's at Shoshone alone. I have no knowledge of how many pulled the pin prior to that, nor subsequently on the way to Baker/Kelso, et al. But, that was a huge number by itself!

As I mentioned, I live down here and ride out in DV and environs all the time. I've experienced these conditions before, and was not terribly surprised by them. To those who came to ride who did not have much desert experience [yes, it's different], and who got thru Shoshone, heading for Baker, and ultimately Twenty-Nine Palms for a finish, HUGE congrats! That was a big job, well done!

FWIW, I've been riding ultra events for 20+ years, and have over 50 CA doubles to my credit, so I have a bit of perspective on this.

Also FWIW, I rode over Salsberry to Ashford Mill this AM and the winds were starting up AGAIN! This time out of the north, but just a bit under what was experienced over the last w/e. Looks like another "fun time" this w/e!!
-dg, TS4

Honestly, only someone who rode the course in previous years or doubles is qualified to opine on how the conditions on the 2009 FC 508 compared to other years or on other DVD rides. So much depends on the wind speed, direction, gust speed, and where you're at. The winds near the Sand Dunes outside of Stovepipe were strong, with blowing sand, branches and the like, but that was very rideable ... just a prelude to the winds to come.

It was windy at the time station at Furnace Creek, but far windier from there to Mormon Point. I don't know how it was at Ashford Mills ... I got blown off the road at Mormon Point, and climbed into the support van to get rocked to sleep. There was no point in continuing, as two of us could barely stand and hold the bike in the gusts.

I suppose it's possible, but it's hard to believe the that the winds could be "much more intense than that" and still have people out there riding in it, and not picking themselves up on the side of the road.

For what it's worth, one of my crew was one of the finishers in the DV2008 Spring Double (I believe that is the one you meant ... the 2007 installment was not particularly windy), and she opined that that stretch from Furnace Creek to Mormon Point this weekend was even worse than that.

I had the extremes of weather for both rides ( bad weather for '08 HooDoo and '09 FC508; and good weather for '08 FC508 and '09 HooDoo (the last two I crewed for my fiancee on).

With good weather, The 508 is considerably easier than HooDoo: last year, Joan had massive tailwinds for the first 200 miles and did them in 10:55 (45 minutes faster than I did this year) on her way to a 36:22 finish and 6th place solo woman. This year we had almost the same kind of wind, but it didn't die down at night. In bad weather, Th3 508 can easily be as hard as HooDoo: the 23 miles from Furnace Creek to 5 miles past Badwater (where I dropped out) took 6 hours! Compare that to 4 hours for the 30 mile climb to Cedar Breaks from Panguitch with temperatures into the low 30s!

For the good weather ones... Joan did HooDoo nearly 9 hours slower than the 508. But then, she had no tailwinds anywhere on the course to push her along at 20+ mph for long distances. Cedar Breaks took her about 3 hours to climb with temps only dipping to 55. It was considerably nicer than when I did it! The altitude still gets to those of us who essentially live at sea level. But I think the wind is far worse to deal with.

The other thing is that the 508 can be incredibly hot as well. It hasn't happened the last couple of years. But it was 107 in Baker just three weeks ago when we came through after HooDoo. If it was like that, the 508 could certainly have been even harder!

Of the three ultra races I've been to (HooDoo, The 508 and Race Across Oregon (which Joan attempted this year)), RAO is the toughest course. The climbs are unrelenting and keep coming at you with little rest between. And it's normally hot out there in July. The temps were well into the 90s both days, and there was lightning, hail and wind (the 20 mile 'descent' before Maupin).

Hey, nice to meet you guys! :)

Seeing how many past finishers did not finish this year is testament in itself to the extreme conditions that were encountered. Congrats to all who even attempted this race.

A friend of mine was talking to Kostman after the post-race breakfast. Apparently, one of the weather stations in Death Valley was recording wind gusts of up to 70mph. Since we were up against the east side of the valley, with the wind coming from the south/southsouthwest, I'd imagine that the strongest winds would have been where we were riding since the mountains would act a bit like a funnel.

Only two solos who came through Furnace Creek after I did finished, and two of them may have passed me as I was stopped there resting for 20 minutes. The third is a serious racer who had some mechanical issues early on in the race. He came through at around 3 am and had the second fastest split for the 4th stage (only Emde hada a faster run through there).

A friend of mine was talking to Kostman after the post-race breakfast. Apparently, one of the weather stations in Death Valley was recording wind gusts of up to 70mph. Since we were up against the east side of the valley, with the wind coming from the south/southsouthwest, I'd imagine that the strongest winds would have been where we were riding since the mountains would act a bit like a funnel.

Only two solos who came through Furnace Creek after I did finished, and two of them may have passed me as I was stopped there resting for 20 minutes. The third is a serious racer who had some mechanical issues early on in the race. He came through at around 3 am and had the second fastest split for the 4th stage (only Emde hada a faster run through there).

Yep. Here is a map of part of Death Valley. See that point of land extending out into the valley from the East? That's Mormon Point.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/Photo395/Map2D_1.jpg

Considering the wind direction, the venturi effect probably made the winds the strongest right about there. It's no coincidence that I got blown off the road at that point.

Well, one thing for sure ... for me at least, that will serve as the standard by which all other windy days are measured. :p

Back in 04 the gusts were 70-80mph so it was very similar to what we had last weekend. When the winds are like that is one of the few times I'm glad I'm a big guy! They blow me around but not off the bike! :)

And I'll certainly never complain about hills (not that I did before!) after riding into that wind. I'll be back to conquer that ride next year or the year after. There's an outside that chance that we may do 4x Team RAAM next year, so I might not do any solo 500s...

For now, I'm going to train speed and try to get my hillclimbs faster. This weekend I'm doing the Bass Lake Powerhouse Double as a recovery ride from last weekend. ; ) Actually, I just need it to earn my Gold Triple Crown, and I can't do Death Valley or Solvang.

I don't know how it was at Ashford Mills ... There was no point in continuing....

We were on the course at the same time at the same place. Earlier on the Townes Pass descent Don (our stage three rider) was walking the bike holding the handlebars in 60 mph tail wind gusts when the bike flipped around in front of him and was waving in the wind like a beach blanket. Man, next year I need to mount a dash cam to catch all of this. The wind was even worse beyond Badwater. After a short discussion when the wind got too bad to ride further Chris (our stage four rider) just walked. As you stated no one knew what it would be like at Ashford Mills. We figured there were three answers (1) Worse - well, at the time we didn't really believe it could get worse (2) the same - so we just DNF further along the course or (3) better - in which case we'd be back in the race and ahead of many riders. We chose #3 since staying meant a DNF. As luck would have it it did get better after walking less than half an hour. It wasn't easy. The bike left the ground a couple times while holding it. It flipped around once.

Anyway, my point is that like you said, you really don't know what the conditions are like further down the course. In this case we made the right decision to keep going just a little further. Had we been a solo with 200 miles in our legs already rather than a 4x we might have chosen differently however. That's a whole other level of mental torture we didn't have to deal with. We passed solo riders with silent prayers all along this stretch.

This is Chris climbing out of Ashford Mills up Jubilee pass just a couple hours after we thought we'd DFN from the weather. No wind here at all.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3989646263_8aa23df828.jpg

A friend of mine was talking to Kostman after the post-race breakfast. Apparently, one of the weather stations in Death Valley was recording wind gusts of up to 70mph. Since we were up against the east side of the valley, with the wind coming from the south/southsouthwest, I'd imagine that the strongest winds would have been where we were riding since the mountains would act a bit like a funnel.

Only two solos who came through Furnace Creek after I did finished, and two of them may have passed me as I was stopped there resting for 20 minutes. The third is a serious racer who had some mechanical issues early on in the race. He came through at around 3 am and had the second fastest split for the 4th stage (only Emde hada a faster run through there).

That was me :) . Came back on to BF because the 508 was such an amazing experience, I figured people must be talking about it. I'd love to blame mechanical issues, but actually I was just very very sick. I may have set the record for most time on Towne - at the bottom right around 4, left the top right before 2am... I think I was so happy to be processing liquid and calories again that I didn't mind the wind so much, but I was puzzled by how many people, especially veterans, dropped out.

The way I saw it the wind turned this essentially flat section into a 45 mile climb. When you see speeds on flats of 10 mph or less - it's easy to be quickly discouraged - but I convinced myself early on that I just should stop looking at any data, and zone out. Make it just you, crouched on your bike, getting as low as possible, vs. the wind. Anyone doing this kind of race can do that - you HAVE to do it if you ride for 500 miles. What's 4 or 5 hours in the scheme of a ride many times that length? But unexpected obstacles like this can easily damage a tired rider's tenacity. Use the sheer epicness (finally a worthy situation for this overused word!) of the conditions to add a little excitement, remind yourself of it - just try to avoid thinking of how ridiculously slow your progress is. All I know is I've never been that happy to turn onto the beginning of a 3000 foot climb!

My crew took some video of the DV crossing, and I'm working on polishing up a complete time lapse movie of the race - we had a time lapse cam setup in the crew car. I'll post it when it's done...it's pretty awesome.

Honestly, only someone who rode the course in previous years or doubles is qualified to opine on how the conditions on the 2009 FC 508 compared to other years or on other DVD rides. So much depends on the wind speed, direction, gust speed, and where you're at. The winds near the Sand Dunes outside of Stovepipe were strong, with blowing sand, branches and the like, but that was very rideable ... just a prelude to the winds to come.

It was windy at the time station at Furnace Creek, but far windier from there to Mormon Point. I don't know how it was at Ashford Mills ... I got blown off the road at Mormon Point, and climbed into the support van to get rocked to sleep. There was no point in continuing, as two of us could barely stand and hold the bike in the gusts.

I suppose it's possible, but it's hard to believe the that the winds could be "much more intense than that" and still have people out there riding in it, and not picking themselves up on the side of the road.

For what it's worth, one of my crew was one of the finishers in the DV2008 Spring Double (I believe that is the one you meant ... the 2007 installment was not particularly windy), and she opined that that stretch from Furnace Creek to Mormon Point this weekend was even worse than that.

I think that you missed several points in my comments.

Firstly was your dismissal of my comment about the weather conditions. I will state it again, I live here, 365 days a year, and have for the past 8 years. I retired down here specifically to ride in DV and environs, and do so in all weather conditions. There is not one foot of pavement in DV, including both sides of Town, that I have not been on many times. I have ridden DVD since 1998 when Hugh Murphy ran it. My nominal training ride is Furnace Creek to Scotty's Castle. Ergo, I think that my opinions on weather in this area are very valid, in fact more so than someone who visits here a few days out of the year. Event day weather conditions are but a microcosm of what goes on here the rest of the time.

And yes, your comment referring to the variability of winds in the Valley is correct. And, over the course of a 12 hour period they can even reverse direction 180°! Yes, a protrusion like Mormon can create some interesting and intense vortexes. I've been there, many times in fact.

You are correct, it was indeed the DVD-Spring of '08 that had the wind shears I referred to; my mistake. When you live in a climate that has few real variables, other than temperature, days/weeks/years have a tendency to blur and run together. But to that point, and the point of my initial comment, those winds were across the entire width of the Valley, and not caused a protrusion like Mormon Point, and the narrowing width of the Valley floor. The debris, including sage brush, were blowing parallel to the ground, and not rolling over it. Also, as a Clydesdale, when I get blown off my bike - near the entrance to Cow Creek - that was a significant wind velocity!

I am not minimizing anything that was endured last weekend. I am merely placing some perspective on it.

Lastly, based on Fueco's comment about a weather station recording wind gusts up to 70 mph, I'll have to ask Chris next week, which one that was. I have what I thought were all recording stations on my check list; none of what I have showed anything that high.

Finally, I STILL give huge kudos to all who finished.
-dg

You can't say always but most of the time, when the wind is bad down in the valley it is relatively calm on the climb up Jubilee and Salsbury. In my all my 508's I can't remember the wind being an issue on either one of those climbs.
Kjfitz, you guys made the right choice. My feeling is that as long as I have time to get to the next time station before it closes I'm not stopping, even if that means I'm walking. Of course if my crew gets tired of watching me toss my cookies and takes my bike away from me, that's another matter...of course, that's never happened to me.:innocent:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To me, it's axiomatic that the only people qualified to compare the winds on the nights in question are those who were actually out there riding in them. That disqualifies me, and unless I misread your post, it disqualifies you too. My only basis for comparison (the crewie who rode Spring 2008 and was crewing for me) felt that the winds this weekend were even stronger than the ones she endured. She's no clydesdale, but managed to keep her bike on the ground and finish the ride. When she stepped out of the van early Sunday morning to help take me off the course, she said there was no way she could have kept her bike on the road through that. I've ridden 1000s of miles with her and know her not to make comments like that lightly.

Gotta respect that you live in the area and have done so many rides there, but I guess I was disputing the statement that the winds were "much more intense" in the Spring 2008 DVD. Read the comments of the people who were there ... "much more intense" would be virtually impossible to ride in.

Your comment about the winds changing 180 degrees in 12 hours sure rings true with me. I've only ridden in DV a handful of times, but it seemed like the winds were typically outta the South in the AM and outta the North in the PM, giving riders on the southerly double course the worst of both worlds.

Do you have a list of the weather stations and the average and peak wind velocities at those locations? I'm genuinely curious how strong they were in numerical terms, and where the measurements were taken. Morbid curiosity, I guess.:p

Just as a reference, in 2004 the wind ripped two bikes and the bike/roof rack off the top of our vehicle! All that was left were holes in the roof where the rack used to be.

^ Holy crap! I presume the car was moving at the time. What a nifty way to make your car a convertible. :thumb:

As long as we're swapping wind stories. This doesn't compare to roof racks flying off cars, but ...

You'll recall the winds a few weeks ago were strong ... they punished the HooDoo riders this year in a major way. Well, I was coming back from the High Sierra Fall Century, and somewhere along the Alabama Spillway (another venturi, now that I think about it), I was passing a car, and BANG!

WTF happened? I look in the rear view mirror and see what I think is a rattlesnake (semi retread) flopping around in the middle of the road. I didn't recall seeing one before I ran over it, so I chalked it up to another one of those "over 50" moments.:innocent:

I get home and note that the plastic skirting on the inside of my fender is gone! The wind had apparently pulled it down far enough to get caught by the tire, then ripped it off. Now I knew what that was flopping on the ground. Wish I stopped to pick it up.

BTW, on the merits of being a clydesdale, I rode a good part of the Mt. Tam double leapfrogging a gentleman who had a "wide load" jersey on. I'd pass him on the climbs and say hi, and he'd pass me on the descents, chirping happily that there were advantages to pulling the extra weight up the hill. True dat!

Yeah, we were moving, though not too fast. We thought the car was going to roll! It was pretty sad standing on the side of the road looking at $14,000 worth of destroyed bikes...

Notice how you mentioned the loss of the bikes, but not the damage to the car.

A true cyclist. :roflmao2:

Well, you know...cars can be replaced...;)

FWIW, My wife was the crew chief for Bobolink who was working the record for being the oldest female finisher. She got hammered by the winds and pulled the plug in Baker.

She will be just a year older next year and it will be harder for someone else to break her record so all is good.

Anyway, while mounting the bike racks and lights on the top of the van so they could have free and clear access to the rear door of the van I discovered that the bikes had to be mounted backwards for them to clear the light bar. Noting this to the crew I mentioned that it would be very important to secure the back - now front of the bike so the wind did not catch it and flip the bike over.

Guess what.

As Homeyba says car windows can be replaced :)

I have a similar problem with my Subie. The new locking Yakima racks don't give you a lot of options on where the fork is relative to the roof of the car. Unfortunately, that means that every time I opened the back hatch, I risked breaking the air fin on the back by pressing it against the rear tire.

My solution was to put it on backwards. And that seemed like such a good idea. Trouble is, it's unstable in a headwind ... the rear tire strap now becomes more than just something to keep the rear tire from sliding left and right out of the tray. Instead, it's needed to keep the bike from rotating up up and away, to smash into your rear window.

Driving home from the Eastern Sierra a few weekends ago, I could see the shadow of the bike being pulled violently up against that strap!

Fortunately, it held together. I was wondering what would have happened if it didn't. Guess I know now.

Say hi to Bobolink ... she rocks.

FWIW, My wife was the crew chief for Bobolink who was working the record for being the oldest female finisher. She got hammered by the winds and pulled the plug in Baker...

That's a bummer to DNF in Baker because it is soooo close to the finish. She's tougher than nails though. I have no doubt that she'll be back and rolling across the finish line next year!

~~~SNIPPAGE~~~

Your comment about the winds changing 180 degrees in 12 hours sure rings true with me. I've only ridden in DV a handful of times, but it seemed like the winds were typically outta the South in the AM and outta the North in the PM, giving riders on the southerly double course the worst of both worlds.

Do you have a list of the weather stations and the average and peak wind velocities at those locations? I'm genuinely curious how strong they were in numerical terms, and where the measurements were taken. Morbid curiosity, I guess.:p

We call that "variable winds", and wind speed is NOT an issue.

I use the weatherunderground site - www.wunderground.com - for zip code 92328 - Furnace Creek. It has an alternate mesowest station, Stovepipe, and a RAWS station at Panamint, avaibale. These are the only other stations I've ever found in the area. Querying the NPS folks at the FC visitors center doesn't yield anything more either. There is no station at Scotty's, as far as I can find out. Asking the locals there gets me blank looks...

I looked at the WU site locations just before I put this together and the history isn't there any more. I had looked at FC and Stovepipe Sunday afternoon when I got home from Shoshone [I ran TS4] - right, morbid curosity - and there was a gust to 54 MPH on the Stovepipe site. The FC site was 52 mph. They are at the wider part of the Valley so the funneling effect as it narows southward towards Mormon, Jubilee, et al, would no doubt boost that higher. Too bad there is something "electric" in that general area. I checked the RAWS station for Shoshone [actually Tecopa] and it had gusts to 46 MPH, between 2100 and 2300 Saturday night. [For ready ref, Shohsone zip is 92384].
-dg

Hey Vireo, I was on the crew for Skua...we stopped to help loosen the lug nuts on the flat on your team van. That tire was as smooth as a cue ball, good thing it didnt blow while going down the backside of Towne Pass.

I love the pic on the AdventureCorp website of you standing and waiting for your crew! Classic.

Congrats on the finish!!

We should post that pic. :) Where on the 508 website is it?

It was great seeing you at the start Fasteddie. When are you going to be out racing again?