Advocacy & Safety - Cycling with kids on a trailer

Met up with a guy this morning, a strong rider, far stronger than me. I met him before and last time I looked into his trailer, it looked like he was carrying clothes for the week. But today I done a double take and he's carrying his little kid. The trailer has an orange flag, rider seems experienced.

But even then, in morning rush hour traffic, everyone's in a hurry. I wouldn't take my kid on a trailer on the road regardless if it's rush hour or not. To me, the risk just isn't worth it. Sure you wont get hit if you're careful enough (typically) but once you do get hit, even a slight know, it's you, and the kid, who'll get off worse. And I could never live with that. knowing I caused an injury to my child, or if I had taken an alternative mode of transport...

I even followed the guy for a while at a safe distance, and slightly outside, so drivers wouldn't get close to the kid. But alas I was a in ahurry to get to work so had to leave him behind. He's a friendly guy, cool, strong rider, I didn't tell him so but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my kids on a bike trailer.

Many people think cycling is dangerous but we know it's not *that* bad and it's an acceptable risk, but for kids, I gotta draw the line.

What's your point?

Just because you're a chicken-s@# doesn't mean it's dangerous.

We can ignore the useless comment above. It's one thing to just disagree....

I agree with the OP. You'd have to be a parent to understand it better. With a child trailer, you ride slower, you need more width, it's harder to take evasive action (quick braking, quick swerve, etc), and the collision consequences are far worse. All that makes it more dangerous.

I only haul my kid around on dedicated bike paths and sidewalks. Yes, sidewalks are more dangerous, but only if you're going too fast and are careless at the intersections.

But you and the OP would load your kids in a car and drive them around during rush hour. I bet you guys even take them on the freeway.

Have you guys checked lately how many kids die each year from death by automobile?

But what about the children!!!!!

The reality is he and his child were probably the safest riders on the road that morning. If you have ever gone on a road with a orange flag and a trailer, drivers react as if you had hand grenades strapped to you. They instantly drive much more carefully, the cyclists takes the lane and you are not gonna get any near misses. A trailer is instant traffic calming, and I would bet that drivers would bash into each other in an over reaction to avoid the trailer.

Just a matter of time before someone, probably a fireman, stops the guy and ends up trying to shoot him!

I was amazed at how much more notice -- and room and consideration -- I got on the road when i was hauling my nephew in the new trailer.... The only reason he was in it was that he couldn't ride where we were going at the time. Had he been on HIS bike, we'd have sidewalked it.

But you and the OP would load your kids in a car and drive them around during rush hour. I bet you guys even take them on the freeway.

Have you guys checked lately how many kids die each year from death by automobile?

By some studies, one roadmile traveled by bike is 7 times more likely to kill you than one mile traveled by car. - Let's don't act as if cycling and driving are at the same level risk-wise.

You'd have to be a parent to understand it better. With a child trailer, you ride slower, you need more width, it's harder to take evasive action (quick braking, quick swerve, etc), and the collision consequences are far worse. All that makes it more dangerous.

No, not really.


If you have ever gone on a road with a orange flag and a trailer, drivers react as if you had hand grenades strapped to you. They instantly drive much more carefully, the cyclists takes the lane and you are not gonna get any near misses. A trailer is instant traffic calming, and I would bet that drivers would bash into each other in an over reaction to avoid the trailer.

No, not really.

Last year I rode my kid 10 km each way to daycare for eight months, using roads with moderate traffic and 25-30mph speed limits, some quite narrow. Drivers *might* have acted a bit better than when I was by myself, but there were still a few that had advance their agendas.

But I still like our chances in the trailer going with traffic versus trying to WALK and push the stroller across a crosswalk around here. Every time we try to legally cross the road we nearly get wiped out.

So what you're saying is; he felt safe enough doing something you don't understand. I can see that. Everybody has a tendency to feel this way. It's called fear of the unknown. I have found that drivers tend to give me more room when I have a trailer on, regardless of the type of trailer.

Sounds to me like he's not the one with a problem.

Did you ask if you could ride his wheel? I probably would have asked you to not do that.

Met up with a guy this morning, a strong rider, far stronger than me. I met him before and last time I looked into his trailer, it looked like he was carrying clothes for the week. But today I done a double take and he's carrying his little kid. The trailer has an orange flag, rider seems experienced.

But even then, in morning rush hour traffic, everyone's in a hurry. I wouldn't take my kid on a trailer on the road regardless if it's rush hour or not. To me, the risk just isn't worth it. Sure you wont get hit if you're careful enough (typically) but once you do get hit, even a slight know, it's you, and the kid, who'll get off worse. And I could never live with that. knowing I caused an injury to my child, or if I had taken an alternative mode of transport...

I even followed the guy for a while at a safe distance, and slightly outside, so drivers wouldn't get close to the kid. But alas I was a in ahurry to get to work so had to leave him behind. He's a friendly guy, cool, strong rider, I didn't tell him so but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my kids on a bike trailer.

Many people think cycling is dangerous but we know it's not *that* bad and it's an acceptable risk, but for kids, I gotta draw the line.

What about on a tandem bike made for 5? WATCH: Family bikes across the country on tandem bike (http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=114281)

Just a matter of time before someone, probably a fireman, stops the guy and ends up trying to shoot him!

Don't forget that the bullet just misses his head because he's wearing a helmet.

But you and the OP would load your kids in a car and drive them around during rush hour. I bet you guys even take them on the freeway.

Have you guys checked lately how many kids die each year from death by automobile?

Or just crossing or walking down the street.

The vast majority of Americans have NO idea how to do risk assessment. Too many fear-mongerers out there.

Bring on the safety nannies!

I have three kids and have pulled all of them with a Burley enclosed trailer and am now using a trailer-bike for my six year old. We ride to school, parks, and downtown for meals and treats. We mostly use 25 mph streets and sometimes use short stretches of 35 mph streets. I avoid the faster arterials with them because they aren't as pleasant for family outings, and I don't need the social friction.

These are the local streets my kids will bike on their own when they get older. I hope they will be as safe when they are riding by themselves as they are when I am pulling them, but they probably won't be. Saying I shouldn't be pulling them on these streets is as bad as saying kids just shouldn't bike.

By some studies, one roadmile traveled by bike is 7 times more likely to kill you than one mile traveled by car. - Let's don't act as if cycling and driving are at the same level risk-wise.


Link to those studies? This is A&S, after all.

"Scientists Say" and "Studies Have Shown" that you can't say things like that without backing it up.

I pull my son through DC pretty frequently. Never had an issue with it.


By some studies, one roadmile traveled by bike is 7 times more likely to kill you than one mile traveled by car. - Let's don't act as if cycling and driving are at the same level risk-wise.

By some studies, one hour traveled by car is twice as dangerous as one hour traveled by bicycle. You're right, cycling and driving AREN'T at the same level risk-wise.

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

By some studies, one roadmile traveled by bike is 7 times more likely to kill you than one mile traveled by car.

Incidents per distance versus incidents per time is an old chestnut by now with regard to bicycle safety.




- Let's don't act as if cycling and driving are at the same level risk-wise.

True. While the danger from accidents is roughly the same cycling vastly reduces your chances of heart disease. Keep on spreading the fear brother.

By some studies, one roadmile traveled by bike is 7 times more likely to kill you than one mile traveled by car. - Let's don't act as if cycling and driving are at the same level risk-wise.Studies say most accidents occur at home. I take it, that you keep your kids in boarding school and do not let them come home for summer or Christmas!:thumb:

My son in law left his bike trailer here a while ago when it started to rain. I brought it back a few days later and was amazed at how driers acted while I was towing it. People gave me a wide berth, slowed down behind me and gave me the whole lane when it came to passing.



Don't forget that the bullet just misses his head because he's wearing a helmet.
The helmet had absolutely nothing to do with the bullet missing his head. it missed plain and simple.

Ken.

The helmet had absolutely nothing to do with the bullet missing his head. it missed plain and simple.

Ken.Yea, pretty sure Digital_Cowboy was aware of that when he engaged in a small amount of sarcasm.:thumb:

By some studies, one hour traveled by car is twice as dangerous as one hour traveled by bicycle.As suggested by another poster, the whole danger per mile vs. danger per hour thing has been beaten to death. And even the studies that are used to show that X is safer than Y are generally quite suspect.

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htmAlso note that Ken Kifer's pages seems to do a lot of statistics shopping -- he links to studies that show what he wants to be showed, but ignores other things that those same studies show.

But ultimately, the study that ends up really mattering is his own -- he was killed on his bike by a drunk driver.

Yea, pretty sure Digital_Cowboy was aware of that when he engaged in a small amount of sarcasm.:thumb:

Figured that out right after re-reading after I posted it.

Ken.

I appreciate parents who seem to be teaching their children alternatives to the sedentary life.

But what about the children!!!!!

The reality is he and his child were probably the safest riders on the road that morning. If you have ever gone on a road with a orange flag and a trailer, drivers react as if you had hand grenades strapped to you. They instantly drive much more carefully, the cyclists takes the lane and you are not gonna get any near misses. A trailer is instant traffic calming, and I would bet that drivers would bash into each other in an over reaction to avoid the trailer.

The safe and considerate drivers... well, they just become more safe and considerate, yes. But the careless mindless drivers will always be there. It only takes one. I can avoid them or quickly avoid dangerous cycling conditions without a trailer, but with a trailer it's a little harder. So I just stick with the safe paths for trailers -- trails and safe intersections.

If you guys think it's safer to take a child in a trailer wherever you need to take them, well, then I guess you won't hesitate taking the usual route whenever the situation arises.

I think the root of the issue is whether or not cycling is dangerous, and if it is, then people shouldn't expose their children to it. One person said that cycling is 7 times more dangerous than driving an automobile. Let's just say for a moment that this is the case. Public transportation by buses and trains are shown to be upwards of 10 times safer than driving. Does that make driving any more or less dangerous? Should we all of a sudden abandon cars for buses because of the risk of driving?

I've seen statistics that show a fatal accident from cycling occurs .2 to .24 times every million hours of activity. Other statistics show between .26 and .52 deaths for every million miles.

That's 1 death for every 4-5 million hours of cycling, or 1 death for every 2 to 4 million miles.

At 5000 miles a year, I'd have to bike for between 400 and 800 years on average in order to be in a fatal accident.

Why would I be worried all of a sudden just because I have my child in the trailer with me?

Parents take their kids swimming, and nobody suggests they are endangering their children, yet swimming has a higher fatality rate per hour of activity than bicycling does.

Not only am I encouraging my kids to embrace exercise (extending their longevity) and use environmentally benign, neighborhood-friendly transportation, but I also use our bike trips as an opportunity to teach safe driving, explaining the rules at each intersection. I believe this will make them safer, more courteous drivers later. This has the potential to save lives.

I do prefer low-traffic, pleasant routes for our rides. But we make only limited use of trails, because the surfaces are poor quality (the kids complain about the bumps), very steep grades at neighborhood access points (are they even ADA compliant?) and they are congested with runners and dog walkers. There are enough 25 mph and 35 mph pleasant streets to get most places we would want to go. The short stretch of 35 mph arterial I sometimes use to get downtown has 14' wide outside lanes, and nearly all drivers change lanes to pass anyway.

This reminds me of the 'OMG I saw a pregnant woman climbing' threads on rockclimbing dot com.

Anyways, I did a lot of trips in traffic with a bike trailer and slightly older child on her own bike to day camps. I never thought about it at the time, but I guess the safety nannies would've been tut tutting all over the internet about it (I could do a thread search I guess).

Why would I be worried all of a sudden just because I have my child in the trailer with me?

Because you're not as nimble if you're hauling a trailer. I often cross over two lanes of a busy road to get to that left hand turn lane when commuting around town. But wouldn't do that with a trailer (especially with a child). I often ride down busy one lane roads with no shoulders or bike lanes because I can go fast enough through that tough section so that I can minimize the amount of drivers that have to drive around me. But I wouldn't do the same with a trailer.

Blanket statements are not what the OP was making. He's saying he wouldn't take his kid in a trailer in certain situations.

Met up with a guy this morning, a strong rider, far stronger than me. I met him before and last time I looked into his trailer, it looked like he was carrying clothes for the week. But today I done a double take and he's carrying his little kid. The trailer has an orange flag, rider seems experienced.

But even then, in morning rush hour traffic, everyone's in a hurry. I wouldn't take my kid on a trailer on the road regardless if it's rush hour or not. To me, the risk just isn't worth it. Sure you wont get hit if you're careful enough (typically) but once you do get hit, even a slight know, it's you, and the kid, who'll get off worse. And I could never live with that. knowing I caused an injury to my child, or if I had taken an alternative mode of transport...

I even followed the guy for a while at a safe distance, and slightly outside, so drivers wouldn't get close to the kid. But alas I was a in ahurry to get to work so had to leave him behind. He's a friendly guy, cool, strong rider, I didn't tell him so but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my kids on a bike trailer.

Many people think cycling is dangerous but we know it's not *that* bad and it's an acceptable risk, but for kids, I gotta draw the line.


Because you're not as nimble if you're hauling a trailer. I often cross over two lanes of a busy road to get to that left hand turn lane when commuting around town. But wouldn't do that with a trailer (especially with a child). I often ride down busy one lane roads with no shoulders or bike lanes because I can go fast enough through that tough section so that I can minimize the amount of drivers that have to drive around me. But I wouldn't do the same with a trailer.

Blanket statements are not what the OP was making. He's saying he wouldn't take his kid in a trailer in certain situations.I think you have a reading comprehension problem adamtki. Seems pretty clear that mustang1 will not ride on the road with kids in a trailer. And we know that MUPs are no safer.

Would you drive your kid on a rural highway?

Do you have a stair case in your home?

Do you own a swimming pool?

I think you have a reading comprehension problem adamtki. Seems pretty clear that mustang1 will not ride on the road with kids in a trailer. And we know that MUPs are no safer.

+1

The OP was clearly criticizing the guy with the trailer and not saying that he wouldn't do it on his own route.

What's your point?

Just because you're a chicken-s@# doesn't mean it's dangerous.

He's right - if you don't risk your kids life for a bicycle ride, that makes you a chickens#$%.

Honestly OP, I don't know what rock these people crawl out from but I wish they'd crawl back in.

And we know that MUPs are no safer.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be hit by another cyclist than by a car.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be hit by another cyclist than by a car.So, the MUPs in your area do not cross ANY roads?

So, the MUPs in your area do not cross ANY roads?

Of course they do, but that's not the point. MUPs are safer because there are LESS interactions with cars, which in my view, makes them safer. The less roads you have to cross, the more careful you'll be at each one.

Of course they do, but that's not the point. MUPs are safer because there are LESS interactions with cars, which in my view, makes them safer. The less roads you have to cross, the more careful you'll be at each one.That is exactly the point, as those crossing make the MUPs as or more dangerous than riding the roads.

That is exactly the point, as those crossing make the MUPs as or more dangerous than riding the roads.

not if YOU obey the traffic laws and stop before each crossing.
However, if you are the type that runs lights, and doesn't recognize stop signs, then yes your chances of an accident are much greater than on the road. Primarily because MUPs intersect roads in unexpected locations.
Note I said "If you obey the traffic laws", last I checked STOP does mean "stop" after all, and even if there isn't a stop sign only a complete moron will enter a road way without looking. (if someone take offense because they habitually enter the roadway without looking, don't expect an apology, because they ARE morons)

On mups, car/cycle interactions are seriously reduced, the only time you see a car is when you are (or should be) expecting it, and alert to it. Many of the MUPs I ride have intersections roughly a mile apart. So, just to put the proper bent to it, If you assume that every car WAS out to get a bicycle stamp on the fender, if I'm on a mup and crossing a street with 60 cars an hour, my chance of getting hit by a car is about 1 in every 4 minutes. If I'm on the road with 60 cars an hour, my odds of getting hit by a car are 1 for every minute I'm on the road. (actual odds would be different because of actual driving while distracted statistics, but they'd share the same ratios mup vs road)

While riding on the road, it only takes a momentary distraction for a driver to take you out. (Oh that's real good Lisa, >THUMP< OH, what was that?...)

Since many more cars are within three feet of you on the road than on a MUP, the actual chance of contact with a car is much lower, So, I'd have to say the mup is safer.

I ride the road far more often than I ride MUPs unless I'm just out wasting time, then I hit the MUPs and enjoy them.


Ken.

Of course they do, but that's not the point. MUPs are safer because there are LESS interactions with cars, which in my view, makes them safer. The less roads you have to cross, the more careful you'll be at each one.

True, but what about walkers, power walkers, dog walkers, roller skaters, roller bladers, skateboarders, etc.? There are all kinds of dangers that one can encounter while out riding and not all of them involve cars/automobiles.

True, but what about walkers, power walkers, dog walkers, roller skaters, roller bladers, skateboarders, etc.? There are all kinds of dangers that one can encounter while out riding and not all of them involve cars/automobiles.

Yes, but I'd rather collide with them than with a car any day. Any hit from the rear will not amount to anything. Any hit from buzzing by them resulting in an accident, will just be a few scratches at the most. And the head on accidents... well, I have pretty good control over that. And even if they occur, I'll be taking the brunt of the injuries which again will not be very significant compared to a collision with a car.

To get back to the point... you just can't take kids in a trailer wherever you take your bicycle on your own as some postings in this topic seem to imply. That's being too idealistic. The trailer is wider, heavier, and will significantly limit how you can maneuver around which is a key factor in being safe on a bicycle. Not to mention the consequences are more severe than if you just injured yourself. I take my kids in the trailer on the MUPs and even on shoulder's, bike lanes and streets, but only safe situations.

If someone decides that a certain riding environment is too dangerous to pull their child in a trailer, that's fine. It's their decision. But they should seriously consider whether their skill level is up to safely riding in that environment without the trailer.


True, but what about walkers, power walkers, dog walkers, roller skaters, roller bladers, skateboarders, etc.? There are all kinds of dangers that one can encounter while out riding and not all of them involve cars/automobiles.

All of these are less predictable, therefore more dangerous to the cyclist, than cars.

Yes, but I'd rather collide with them than with a car any day.

Unless you have the misfortune of being a walker who get's "cut off at the knees" by a dog leash and end up dying of head injuries. Yes, I know that the odds (in general) of something like that happening aren't very good, most of the time. But as MUPs become more crowded they will occur more often.


Any hit from the rear will not amount to anything. Any hit from buzzing by them resulting in an accident, will just be a few scratches at the most. And the head on accidents... well, I have pretty good control over that. And even if they occur, I'll be taking the brunt of the injuries which again will not be very significant compared to a collision with a car.

This is true in the majority of cases, but sadly there are always going to be cases that are the exception to the rule.


To get back to the point... you just can't take kids in a trailer wherever you take your bicycle on your own as some postings in this topic seem to imply. That's being too idealistic. The trailer is wider, heavier, and will significantly limit how you can maneuver around which is a key factor in being safe on a bicycle. Not to mention the consequences are more severe than if you just injured yourself. I take my kids in the trailer on the MUPs and even on shoulder's, bike lanes and streets, but only safe situations.

Yes, the trailer adds to the width, length and weight of a bike and slows reaction time as well as adding to the braking distance. But that doesn't necessarily make it anymore of an unsafe activity then riding without the kids in a trailer. It means one needs to be more vigilant because the other traffic still may not give them the consideration and respect that they should.

If someone decides that a certain riding environment is too dangerous to pull their child in a trailer, that's fine. It's their decision. But they should seriously consider whether their skill level is up to safely riding in that environment without the trailer.

I don't think that's a reason to question your cycling skills. Case in point: I can take the lane in many situations because I can bike fast enough (20+ mph) so my speed won't be a safety hazard. But with a trailer, I'd have to increase my risk cause I can't bike as fast, or move over to the narrow debris strewn bike lane/shoulder where I'd still be biking slower.



All of these are less predictable, therefore more dangerous to the cyclist, than cars

Are you serious? An MUP is more dangerous than the road? When was the last time you thought that idiot cyclist or jogger or blader might accidently kill you with their inconsiderate unpredicatable behavior?

not if YOU obey the traffic laws and stop before each crossing.
However, if you are the type that runs lights, and doesn't recognize stop signs, then yes your chances of an accident are much greater than on the road. Primarily because MUPs intersect roads in unexpected locations.
Note I said "If you obey the traffic laws", last I checked STOP does mean "stop" after all, and even if there isn't a stop sign only a complete moron will enter a road way without looking. (if someone take offense because they habitually enter the roadway without looking, don't expect an apology, because they ARE morons)

On mups, car/cycle interactions are seriously reduced, the only time you see a car is when you are (or should be) expecting it, and alert to it. Many of the MUPs I ride have intersections roughly a mile apart. So, just to put the proper bent to it, If you assume that every car WAS out to get a bicycle stamp on the fender, if I'm on a mup and crossing a street with 60 cars an hour, my chance of getting hit by a car is about 1 in every 4 minutes. If I'm on the road with 60 cars an hour, my odds of getting hit by a car are 1 for every minute I'm on the road. (actual odds would be different because of actual driving while distracted statistics, but they'd share the same ratios mup vs road)

While riding on the road, it only takes a momentary distraction for a driver to take you out. (Oh that's real good Lisa, >THUMP< OH, what was that?...)

Since many more cars are within three feet of you on the road than on a MUP, the actual chance of contact with a car is much lower, So, I'd have to say the mup is safer.

I ride the road far more often than I ride MUPs unless I'm just out wasting time, then I hit the MUPs and enjoy them.


Ken.

Whoa, a whole bunch of bad assumptions and even made up statistics trying to validate them. Not to mention the attemps of blame the cyclist anytime a motorist/cyclist collision occurs associated with a MUP.

...Are you serious? An MUP is more dangerous than the road? When was the last time you thought that idiot cyclist or jogger or blader might accidently kill you with their inconsiderate unpredicatable behavior?It is not even safe for the walkers on a MUP:

http://www.mercurynews.com/topstories/ci_13455878?nclick_check=1&forced=true

San Jose woman walking on trail gets tangled in dog leash, falls and dies
By Lisa Fernandez
lfernandez@mercurynews.com
Posted: 09/30/2009 05:02:47 PM PDT
Updated: 09/30/2009 10:45:08 PM PDT


Beverly Head was often troubled during her daily walks when she saw bicyclists riding alongside their dogs, pulling their pets on leashes.

It was the dogs she was worried about, not walkers like herself.

Tragically, the 62-year-old woman died last month, a day after becoming entangled in a leash as a mountain biker riding alongside his two Siberian Huskies passed her on the Los Alamitos Creek Trail.

Now, two weeks later, Bob Head is mourning his wife's death and wondering why there wasn't a way to prevent it. He is desperate to find the cyclist, who stayed to help the mother of three known for her deviled eggs and Halloween decorations, but left once paramedics came. Propelled by Head's frustration,

Have Your Say!
Should it be illegal to bike with your dog on a leash? the freak accident is sparking a question among some city leaders about whether it would be reasonable to enact a law that would make riding a bike while walking a dog a crime in San Jose.

"I want closure," said Head, 65, a retired General Electric engineer, whose voice is filled with anger and grief.

San Jose police investigated and say in this case, there wasn't a crime.

"This was a horrific, tragic accident," said Lt. Rikki Goede. "I feel horrible for this family. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose your wife of 43 years. My heart, and the heart of the San Jose police, goes out to Mr. Head."

San Jose's municipal code says dog owners must have "direct physical control" of their dogs on leashes up to 20 feet long in a park. There is nothing stated about whether dog owners may ride a bicycle.

Goede said witnesses told police the cyclist appeared traumatized and helped the slightly built woman after the leash of one of his large blue-eyed dogs hooked behind her legs, causing her to fall down on her head about 8:15 a.m. on Sept. 16. She was bleeding, though lucid enough to phone her husband from the popular trail, south of Almaden Lake Park, near Pfeiffer Ranch Road and Graystone Meadow Drive.

Paramedics took her to Valley Medical Center, where her husband said she underwent surgery. Her brain swelled, and hours later she was declared brain-dead. She was taken off life-support the next day. A funeral was held last week at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in San Jose. Police say it's likely the cyclist doesn't even know the woman whom his dog entangled has died. Paramedics never got his name.

Maria Cleveland, 61, said she saw the whole thing. She said she recognizes the cyclist from her daily walks. He typically jogs with his Siberian Huskies, she said. That was the first day she saw him on a bike.

"The gentleman dropped his bike and went to her," she said. "The lady didn't move at all. I

just said, 'Oh my God, oh my God,' and I called paramedics."

In light of the tragedy, Head has been calling people in power to see what could be done to prevent a similar death. It's a pressing question for Head, who said his wife, a retired Good Samaritan Hospital phlebotomist, had mentioned her concern two days before the accident about a bicyclist riding alongside a dog.

"She thought it was cruel to the dogs," he said. "She saw this little dog stumbling and trying to keep up."

Mona Favorite-Hill, spokeswoman for San Jose's Department of Parks, Recreation and Neighborhood Services, said her office has been talking about the unfortunate turn of events, too.

"There was no way to anticipate this," she said. "We've never thought about it before. If there was such a law, how would we enforce it? The only thing we would be able to do is put up signs and put out an education campaign."

Kathy Sutherland, Councilwoman Nancy Pyle's chief of staff, said the office began Monday investigating whether the current municipal code should be amended.

"We're taking this seriously," Sutherland said. "We think it's worth revisiting the issue."

Bob Head regularly visits a makeshift memorial, adorned with a white cross, at the spot of the accident.

Sabina Jacobs, 80, saw Head there earlier this week, his head bowed to the ground. She said many of the regulars on the trail have been talking about what happened.

"Did you know that woman?'" she said she asked him.

"Yes," he answered her. "That was my wife."

As a parent, I understand the reaction from people when they see kids in what they perceive to be a risky situation. In this case, at least the OP is a cyclist too, and has some perception of risk level that a non-rider wouldnt' have.

But every parent makes different decisions. I mean, the guy wasn't dangling his kid from a balcony or anything like that.

We do a lot of things with our kids that other people could perceive as risky. They started skiing around age 4 (they're 9 and 10 now), we take them whitewater kayaking (tandem inflatable whitewater kayaks - next year or two they get in their own boats), they ride with us on roads and trails. Probably the riskiest thing we do with them is take them for rides on our scooters (vintage vespas). But we do what we can to mitigate risk -- ride at certain times of day, paddle class 2-3 whitewater at certain water levels, ski within our limits (or push the envelope safely). We took them up Hell Brook trail on Mt. Mansfield this summer -- and they loved it, but many parents would back down from that (a lot of adults did, based solely on descriptions).

If there were something you felt the rider didn't understand about his situation, then you could politely bring it up. I've done that before when I've seen people about to put their kayaks in the water who clearly didn't have the skills for what was ahead. But it sounds like this guy understood the risk and was ok with it.

Even if MUP users were behaving totally erratically, which is not the case in my experience, none of them have enough mass to crush the safety cage of a baby trailer at typical bicycling speeds.

Unexpected changes in speed and direction among children, pets, and novice adults on the MUP is a reasonably foreseeable event and can be adjusted for.

Hence, I've never had any of these trail users inexplicably run into me.

I cannot say the same for motor vehicles.

Personally, I would have no problems carrying a kid in a trailer. I may rethink some of the roads I take, but in general, I would feel safe with one.


Are you serious? An MUP is more dangerous than the road? When was the last time you thought that idiot cyclist or jogger or blader might accidently kill you with their inconsiderate unpredicatable behavior?

When was the last time you had to cross a street on a MUP?

The actual separated part of the path may be safer, but I would consider the intersections with streets much more dangerous. Drivers are not generally looking for cyclists or people at intersections with MUPs.

These are MUPs that are poorly designed.

A well designed MUP will have complete separation from all streets, even those it crosses. This is why creekside and riverside MUPs are so awesome. The creek/river generally runs below grade with the road, allowing these paths to not intersect with them. These MUPs I would consider safer than a well traveled road.

When was the last time you had to cross a street on a MUP?

FWIW, none of the MUPs I used when commuting with the trailer crossed any roads whatsoever.

I don't think that's a reason to question your cycling skills. Case in point: I can take the lane in many situations because I can bike fast enough (20+ mph) so my speed won't be a safety hazard. But with a trailer, I'd have to increase my risk cause I can't bike as fast, or move over to the narrow debris strewn bike lane/shoulder where I'd still be biking slower.

With the potential speed differential being what it is between motor vehicles and bicycles, except in a traffic jam situation, the speed of the bike is not particularly pertinent. It might make the cyclist feel better, but it doesn't really matter if the bike is going 12 or 20.


Are you serious? An MUP is more dangerous than the road? When was the last time you thought that idiot cyclist or jogger or blader might accidently kill you with their inconsiderate unpredicatable behavior?

Are you saying the only crashes that matter are those that result in a death? Oh well, pardon me then, but I count crashes that may result in serious or chronic injury. That being the case, yes, sharing a MUP can be more dangerous than sharing a road. In fact, I have found MUPs to be the most dangerous place to ride only behind sidewalks. Thankfully there aren't many in this area. Compared to MUP users, road users tend to move in an at least somewhat orderly and predictable manner.