Cyclocross - Brakes

This had probably been done, but what's a decent brake?
I'm looking at the Tektro CR720, Avid Shorty 6 and TRP Euro X. I can also get Cane Creek's and Shimano's. Pads aren't a consideration, since i've already got some Salmon's.

Any suggestions? I'm leaning towards the Shorty and Euro X.

I love my euro X. The standard Euro X doesn't have the "adjust" brake pad holders which allow for easy toe in. But the Newer carbon and Mags have the adjust pads. Or you can just bend the posts on the pad holders (which i did last year)

I'm with Nitro. Just make sure you don't bend the posts while they are in the brakes. Take them out and put them in a vise and use a wrench.

I was surprised by how much the shimano br550s really didn't suck. I've had decent luck with the avid shortys, too.

Sorry, not much experience with the more boutique options.

My shorty keeps sticking on one side. I may have fixed the problem by taking the spring and bending it so it applies more pressure to open the brake. This even happened in a race. For that reason I don't recommend the Avid Shorty that came on my Trek XO1.

Bill, do you have the 4's or the 6's?

TRP's are quite choice. I've been running the TRP Carbons since last year and I love them. You won't be disappointed. Not sure if they are out yet, but check out the FSA cantis, they look pretty awesome too.

I'm with Nitro. Just make sure you don't bend the posts while they are in the brakes. Take them out and put them in a vise and use a wrench.

Yeah I forgot to mention that.

Stick the post in a vice and use the box end of a combo wrench and bend the post/holder

I'm really liking the wide profile CR720 on the front and whatever low profile in the back (i have cane creek but wouldn't notice if anyone changed them to any of the others: it's a rear brake - if it'll lock up when i want to slide the wheel around, that's all i need out of it). Dual-compound Koolstop pads are nice.

TRP EuroX!

if you race in mud you want to go with a wide canti

if not you can run low profiles. I use the shorty 4s in the SW. Terrible mud clearance, but that is rarely a factor here

I just swapped my Shorty 4's for Cr 720's. No matter what I did I could not get my short's to stop squealing and they had jack for stopping power. So far, my cr720's are a ton better. However, I have only had them on for a week.

could you give more detail on bending post please

why not pauls?

i really want the white trps but besides the price im worried about scraping my leg against the back brakes like I already do with my kore brakes

No reason not to go pauls. They are a little pricey but I love the way mine feel. In over a year I have not had one issue or even had to adjust them once other than a slight cable tension adj. as the pads wore.

http://publish.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/9054.0.html

nice article about CX brakes

I've got the Euro X mags. Super light and I stop, so I can't complain. They come with two sets of pads, one for carbon the other for alu wheels. They look pretty cool too...if you are into looks. ;)

Alfred E. Bike has last years (white/gold) for about $200. If I didn't get these I was going with Paul's based on his reputation, light too.

Around here, I hear mud is very present almost weekly, and after reading that Velonews article, I'm still not sure how to go.
I used to race cars, and even in road racing, I need a powerful brake, so the shorter designs may be more for me, despite their unfriendliness towards mud.

You are still young. Run the low profiles this year and if you aren't satisfied with mud clearance, then switch next year. Or mid season.

That's probably what I should do. I can get them for cheap.

Around here, I hear mud is very present almost weekly, and after reading that Velonews article, I'm still not sure how to go.
I used to race cars, and even in road racing, I need a powerful brake, so the shorter designs may be more for me, despite their unfriendliness towards mud.

In the limited racing I have done in the mud my low profiles packed up extremely quickly and slowed me considerably.

If you are racing in the mud you are going to be going slow for the most part so braking power isnt of highest priority, but clearance is. If mud is really ubiquitous in your area I would grab some CR720s and throw on salmon pads and really play with that straddle cable height to try and get a good feel out of them.

If you really want lo pro brakes I imagine a bunch of experienced riders in your area may have them collecting dust and would sell them on the cheap.

How about the Velo Orange Grenouille? It looks like a frogleg brake, but has cartridge shoes and only costs $45 for the whole bike. They do a Grand Cru version that comes with adjustable pads.

http://www.velo-orange.com/grcabr.html

I like my kores. Lots of room, and they are pretty cheap

http://store.icyclesusa.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=icycles&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=7534205&Count2=924674630&ProductID=5384&Target=products.asp&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase

How about the Velo Orange Grenouille? It looks like a frogleg brake, but has cartridge shoes and only costs $45 for the whole bike. They do a Grand Cru version that comes with adjustable pads.

http://www.velo-orange.com/grcabr.html

do you ride those? If so how much "gentle bending" was needed to get the toe right? Also, those look like older style cartridge pads that were popular on cantis in the mid to late 90s; how easy is it to get a replacement cartridge for those?

Those Grenouilles look a lot like the rivendell ribbits - I didn't like those at all due to a freakin' ton of slop at the pivot point.

I had some TRP EuroX's ordered today, but QBP probably doesn't have any because they never have anything I need.

I have Tektro 720 with Kool Stop Mountain pads being pulled by Shimano Ultegra brifters - I'm not in love with the braking power, but these are also my first canti brakes. Not sure whether I don't have my straddle cable the right length or if its just the nature of the beast.

I had some TRP EuroX's ordered today, but QBP probably doesn't have any because they never have anything I need.

lucky you. I am working on these brakes for a friend.

Brakes without toe in adjustment should go away.

BTW, the Kore brakes look like a slightly nicer version of the CR720

I have Tektro 720 with Kool Stop Mountain pads being pulled by Shimano Ultegra brifters - I'm not in love with the braking power, but these are also my first canti brakes. Not sure whether I don't have my straddle cable the right length or if its just the nature of the beast.


You should play with your straddle cable. I have the exact same set up and I had to adjust my cable to reduce the braking power. I was worried that in a race I would grab a fistful of brake and go over the bars.

I don't ride the VO brakes. I just figured they might be a good TRP alternative, and a little cheaper. I actually run Tektro CR-720s at the moment. I swapped them in for some Avid Shorty brakes I never liked, which I had used to replace Frogslegs I never really liked. ** hum!

You should play with your straddle cable. I have the exact same set up and I had to adjust my cable to reduce the braking power. I was worried that in a race I would grab a fistful of brake and go over the bars.

It could also be that the pads are positioned for a lot of mud clearance: the further they are from the rim, the less the braking power. Setting up with mud clearance that you don't need is a mistake.

I am running SRP (note: not TRP) brakes and I have found them to be excellent. They are a wide profile minimalist design with the toe in built into the design. There is no adjustability for toe in but these are the first brakes I've ever had for cross that don't squeal.

Seems to me that you are better of running brakes that are designed for mud even in dry conditions. All it takes is one muddy race and you'll be dragging 15 pounds of grass along with you. Sure they don't have the greatest stopping power but what do you want to stop for anyway :D

I adjust my brakes for either race conditions or daily use. I reduce the power by adding clearance for racing but for daily use, I need stopping power.

You should play with your straddle cable. I have the exact same set up and I had to adjust my cable to reduce the braking power. I was worried that in a race I would grab a fistful of brake and go over the bars.


It could also be that the pads are positioned for a lot of mud clearance: the further they are from the rim, the less the braking power. Setting up with mud clearance that you don't need is a mistake.

Would more straddle yield more power?

I'm not running a lot of clearance, but I can try taking things in a bit. Winding out the cable adjusters on my inline brakes does help a little. I love inline brakes btw.

I swapped out an Avid Shorty 4 for a Tektro CR720 on the front on my bike last night. I'm not sure why they bothered to include installation instructions -- they describe the basic process of attaching the brakes to the frame/fork but omit everything you need to know to actually make the brakes useful.

Anyway, I resorted to studying Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry (http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html), which was probably where I should have started in the first place. That still didn't get me as far as I wanted, but I slept on it.

This morning I remembered a tip someone here had given me about wanting the brake arms to be parallel to the rim when they make contact. To achieve that I moved a 2mm washer from the outside of the brake arm to the inside and, presto! -- braking power.

FWIW, I had done a lot of tweaking with the Avids and had gotten them tuned in pretty well, so until this last adjustment the CR720s weren't working any better than the Avids had been for me, but this last adjustment did put them over the top. I was sticking with link wires on the Avids so that severly limited their adjustability, though I did get a shorter link wire -- it could be that with a yoke and straddle cable I could have squeezed a little more power out of the Avids.

Would more straddle yield more power?

I'm not running a lot of clearance, but I can try taking things in a bit. Winding out the cable adjusters on my inline brakes does help a little. I love inline brakes btw.

check out the sheldon brown article on canti set up. higher straddle, essentially what you are doing with your inline adjusters, yields less MA and a stiffer feel at the lever, and the opposite holds as well. After reading that article and following his advice I got a really nice feel out of my shorty 4s, which are a brake that is usually hated on FWIW

Would more straddle yield more power?

I'm not running a lot of clearance, but I can try taking things in a bit. Winding out the cable adjusters on my inline brakes does help a little. I love inline brakes btw.

The lower the pulley and the closer the pads to the rim, the more power you get. Mechanical advantage can be altered through a range of - oh, probably a factor of four - by what seem like quite small changes. Search this forum for past threads.

VERY important point: cantis feel squishy, not hard, when set up right. And you can carry on pulling the lever for quite a distance after this squishy feeling starts. That's because they're so powerful that they squish the brake pads and you can feel this through the levers - and squish them more - and more - for extra power. Set up right cantis can lock your front wheel or make you endo (depending on how much grip you have) with very little effort.

Seems to me that you are better of running brakes that are designed for mud even in dry conditions. All it takes is one muddy race and you'll be dragging 15 pounds of grass along with you. Sure they don't have the greatest stopping power but what do you want to stop for anyway :D

I feel guilty pointing this out as I can't race in cross because of Weird Mutant Foot Syndrome - but stronger brakes mean that you can brake later, which means that you can go faster longer. Getting your brakes right is a big part of going fast off road. There's a reason why the UCI banned disks as giving an unfair advantage. Although I wish the idiots hadn't.

I feel guilty pointing this out as I can't race in cross because of Weird Mutant Foot Syndrome - but ....

Truth is truth, wherever it comes from. Have you ever seen Leo Mazzone pitch? No, but he's an awesome pitching coach. Don't let an injury keep you from sharing what you know.

Oh yeah, I completely agree with your point about braking in a race too.

I got a set of the FSA SLK cantis and they rock. I hated my TRP Euro X brakes. I road the Cane Creek brakes for a while and really liked those but the FSAs are the best brakes I have had for a cross bike.

Two races now on the Tektro CR720's. The second one without an endo and corresponding major mechanical.

I am 210lbs and these brakes are great. SO MUCH better than my crappy avid shorty 4s.

Do people really give a crap about how the brakes 'look' on their 'cross bike? Everything is brown when it is covered in mud.

Oh, and zero heel interference and I have pretty big feet (US 13, EU 48 or 49)

The lower the pulley and the closer the pads to the rim, the more power you get. Mechanical advantage can be altered through a range of - oh, probably a factor of four - by what seem like quite small changes. Search this forum for past threads. ...

I lowered the pulley and shortened the straddle - definite improvement. I don't think I could endo myself, but the grip is much better, and I still have reasonable rim clearance.


Two races now on the Tektro CR720's. The second one without an endo and corresponding major mechanical.

...

Do people really give a crap about how the brakes 'look' on their 'cross bike? Everything is brown when it is covered in mud. ...

I didn't realize 720s were considered ugly. I have the black ones, and they look fine.

I lowered the pulley and shortened the straddle - definite improvement. I don't think I could endo myself, but the grip is much better, and I still have reasonable rim clearance.

Ok. The next thing you need to do is to just move the pads in towards the rim until the clearance is the least you will tolerate. Then you're done. Braking power should go up quite a bit more when you do this. Canti tweaking is pretty simple, really.

I have a set of NOS Pedersen "self energizing" cantis waiting to be installed on my MTB-crosser hybrid. These things are notorious for their braking power - they've been known to lift the rear wheel of a tandem off the ground.

I feel guilty pointing this out as I can't race in cross because of Weird Mutant Foot Syndrome - but stronger brakes mean that you can brake later, which means that you can go faster longer. Getting your brakes right is a big part of going fast off road. There's a reason why the UCI banned disks as giving an unfair advantage. Although I wish the idiots hadn't.

You are correct that you should go fast right up to the point that you need to stop but setting up brakes for mud, within reason, is only a slight margin of difference. My brake pads are probably 1cm away from the rims but I can still stop or more importantly slow down.

I think a lot of people, especially those that come from the road think that cross brakes feel like mush but really they are just set differently and so you have to react differently to them. A lot of roadies have their brakes set to a hair trigger so when they get on a cross bike and have to pull a lot of cable it feels weird.

But yes like all things there is tolerances in the set up and design.