Advocacy & Safety - Biking Through Bad Neighborhoods...?

Hey there guys. My school is around three miles away from my house, making it a breeze of a bike ride, but only being 15, my mom has some concerns. Mainly because in order to get to my school, you have to ride right through one of the corners of the Iron Triangle in Oakland, CA.

For those of you who don't know what the Iron Triangle is, it is as follows:


The neighborhood gets its name from three major railroad tracks which form a rough triangle and define its boundaries. The northeastern side of the Iron Triangle is the Union Pacific Railroad/BART tracks that run beside Carlson Boulevard, Espee Avenue, Portola Avenue, and 13th Street. The Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway tracks that parallel the Richmond Parkway form the northwest side of the triangle. Traditionally, the southern side of the triangle has been the now abandoned Santa Fe tracks that ran between Ohio and Chanslor Avenues and are currently being developed as the Richmond Greenway. Because those tracks have been removed, the southern boundary of the neighborhood is now sometimes considered to be the BNSF tracks that run just south of Interstate 580.

But it is also full of some of the largest amounts gang violence in Richmond and Oakland, CA, specifically near the AA housing and apartments which I pass when I ride to school.

So, I am wondering what your thoughts are on riding through bad neighborhoods. How do I convince my mom that I can ride through these neighborhoods with ease (she's mainly worried that I'd ride right into a gang fight [she's kind of neurotic like that]). I mean, the ride should take me about 20 minutes, really.

Thanks for your guys' input, and I don't know how many of you are figurative wisenheimers, but I can already see somebody replying, "Ride faster." :rolleyes: :lol:

If you were to go around that area, what kind of distance are you looking at?

If you were to go around that area, what kind of distance are you looking at?

Well, let me see here. If I went up Redwood to Skyline and back down to the back of the school, around 20-ish miles? That's the first route that comes to my mind.

I'm certain you're overestimating the distance on that. Longest side on the triangle is 3 miles at the absolute max.
Stick on main roads and dont dress like a hood.

I grew up in San Francisco's TL, and would hang out with friends in the triangle to take a break.

Ken.

Hmmmm, lessee...

Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.

AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!

Ride Safe and Have fun

SF

The real danger isn't your riding into a gang fight, but someone mugging you for the bike. It's not an unrealistic fear, especially if the bike is obvious thief-bait. A lot would depend here on the exact route - how busy it is and how visible you would be, etc.

1. Dress in a manner where you will not draw undue attention to yourself...no spandex, no wild jerseys, no fancy helmets, no fancy shoes, no fancy bike.

2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.

3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.

4. Mind your own business

As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.

I'm certain you're overestimating the distance on that. Longest side on the triangle is 3 miles at the absolute max.
Stick on main roads and dont dress like a hood.

I grew up in San Francisco's TL, and would hang out with friends in the triangle to take a break.

Ken.

I pretty sure I am as well, but it's not specifically the iron triangle, more the remnants of it. I go to high school at Bishop O'Dowd if you have any where that is.


Hmmmm, lessee...

Given you are 15, I should be about your Mom's age. Aside from her emotional investment in you she has good reason to be nervous, not neurotic. Let's review the evidence, shall we?
I skirt pretty gritty neighbourhood myself, on the other side of the country. I saw a .22 shell on a sidewalk. I have been shooed off by a police officer to a sidestreet to take a detour during a day-long stand-off. Due to broken glass bottles and other k-rap if I have two weeks between flats - I am doing superb. Freeway underpasses are a separate story - hold your breath...
I ride just ahead of rush hour on main streets, to ensure plenty of eyes but not much traffic yet, and vary my riding days. You will be a regular target, like a clockwork, twice a day, every day, and this is my main problem.
Take a longer route. It is not quite clear if it is 20mi RT or one way. 10 mi one way is good exercise and will take about 35-40 min, comparable to most school bus rides, 20 mi one way is nearly unsustainable.

AND WEAR A HELMET!!!!!

Ride Safe and Have fun

SF


The real danger isn't your riding into a gang fight, but someone mugging you for the bike. It's not an unrealistic fear, especially if the bike is obvious thief-bait. A lot would depend here on the exact route - how busy it is and how visible you would be, etc.


1. Dress in a manner where you will not draw undue attention to yourself...no spandex, no wild jerseys, no fancy helmets, no fancy shoes, no fancy bike.

2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.

3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.

4. Mind your own business

As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.

These are all good suggestions, and I don't wear my chamois to school. Some of the jocks would go ballistic.

So what I'm seeing really is just don't act or dress like a target and mind my own business. Seems simple enough.

I was your age riding through a not so sketchy neighborhood, that I'd gone through many times. I got hit with a 2x4 in the back/neck and mugged for my bike.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit. I thought no-one would mess with me. A chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.

A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.

People are shot for $20 bucks, looking at someone wrong, or being in the wrong neighborhood. It happens quite a lot, if you feel like that wouldn't happen to you, you need to re-evaluate reality. Tough lesson to learn the hard way.

If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.

I was your age riding through a not so sketchy neighborhood, that I'd gone through many times. I got hit with a 2x4 in the back/neck and mugged for my bike.
It was a really crappy bike, but the group of 4-5 ghetto kids wanted it. I was 6' even at the time, 240lbs and fairly fit, I thought no-one would mess with me, but a chunk of wood and being outnumbered was more then enough, learned a lot about the world that day.

A few years later I was riding through a really bad neighborhood, much like the one you'll be going near, a kid not much older then 16 pulled a gun on me for my bike, luckily I was going pretty quickly and he decided not to shoot me. Again, it was a cheap bike, in poor shape, but those that don't have one, and that grew up amongst violence will readily take yours.

If you get a flat near there, good luck. Your mom is being reasonable. If you can't detour around that area, I'd not do it.

I can perfectly understand my mom's concerns, she's just the main factor in this. I know that what she says is ultimately the biggest factor, and I really do know where's she's coming from.

Bad neighborhoods are...well, bad. I've thought about carrying pepper spray, but it seems like too much. Yet, maybe it's just enough. See, I have no idea. :twitchy:

So what I'm seeing really is just don't act or dress like a target and mind my own business. Seems simple enough.

Everyone is saying you'll likely get mugged, which is probable.
Minding your own business just keeps you from making enemies, it does not in any way guarantee shady types will leave you a lone, nor will it keep you safe (unmugged or alive.)

I can perfectly understand my mom's concerns, she's just the main factor in this. I know that what she says is ultimately the biggest factor, and I really do know where's she's coming from.

Bad neighborhoods are...well, bad. I've thought about carrying pepper spray, but it seems like too much. Yet, maybe it's just enough. See, I have no idea. :twitchy:

Pepper spray is great against say, dogs, a single person not under the influence of drugs, and other minor threats. In the real world, it's fairly useless for surprise attacks. If you where to get mugged, I guarantee it will be because someone noticed you ride by at the same time each day, and sets up the mugging. Hard to pepper spray someone when you've been knocked to the ground or hit by a large object (bat, wood, tire iron) or attacked by a group of people.

Othertimes someone just needs to get high, or that is already high and feeling a little fiesty, pepperspray does nothing to someone going through withdrawl or higher then a kite and you're standing between them and a bike good enough to buy a hit.

Bet bet is to go well around bad areas, or carry a firearm.

Everyone is saying you'll likely get mugged, which is probable.
Minding your own business just keeps you from making enemies, it does not in any way guarantee shady types will leave you a lone, nor will it keep you safe (unmugged or alive.)

I can understand your cynical outlook after becoming a victim yourself...but for every person that is a victim of a mugging, literally thousands go on about their day without incident. In other words, while the odds make it more likely than a lightning strike, it doesn't make it a certainty or even a 50/50 proposition.
Even in the worst neighborhoods there are people who never experience a mugging or violence during the period they live/work there. I'm sorry the odds got you, but that doesn't mean everyone is gonna get the short end of the stick.

But it does bring to mind something I omitted to share with the OP: Don't follow the same routine.
You can't stop something from happening to you totally at random, but you can make it harder for someone to plan to jack you. Mix things up a little, don't always be at the same place at the same time or use the same exact route or stop at the same exact places, etc.

Of course the other point that I think you and others are trying to make are quite valid...best way to keep out of trouble is to avoid it...so if you know someplace is sketchy, avoidance is a good thing, if possible.

I can understand your cynical outlook after becoming a victim yourself...but for every person that is a victim of a mugging, literally thousands go on about their day without incident. In other words, while the odds make it more likely than a lightning strike, it doesn't make it a certainty or even a 50/50 proposition.
Even in the worst neighborhoods there are people who never experience a mugging or violence during the period they live/work there. I'm sorry the odds got you, but that doesn't mean everyone is gonna get the short end of the stick.

Very true, but IMO, if the risk to self is high, and the chances are fairly good, it's wise to avoid what is avoidable.

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but given a longer commute vs risking being attacked by choosing the easier route...

A healthy fear of putting ones self in danger is a good thing. There's a reason people are afraid to live in bad neighborhoods, and those well enough off, move ASAP. It's not because they KNOW they're going to be attacked, but that it's more likely than in a "good" neighborhood.

Some people enjoy risks, like sky diving, racing, etc. I can understand that, since it's fun and you only live once. I can't see what's fun about riding through a bad neighborhood that can be avoided, though.

Just my 15 cents.

I can't see what's fun about riding through a bad neighborhood that can be avoided, though.

Hookers and blow! :D

First off, thanks for writing a post that can actually be read and understood. Second, do you have any friends that could ride with you? I would imagine your chances would be better and your mom happier if you were not alone.

First off, thanks for writing a post that can actually be read and understood. Second, do you have any friends that could ride with you? I would imagine your chances would be better and your mom happier if you were not alone.

I do have some fixed gear riding friends, and I can try to talk them into it. Otherwise I can consult the other cycling club members at our school and see what's up.

Hookers and blow! :D

Well played. You win. :roflmao2:

I do have some fixed gear riding friends, and I can try to talk them into it. Otherwise I can consult the other cycling club members at our school and see what's up.

Just remember what I said about drawing undue attention to yourself, routines and perceptions. One dork riding his bike each day is less noticeable than a bunch of dorks riding their bikes each day. You don't want anyone to think you are outsiders encroaching upon their turf.

Not calling you a dork of course, just using the perception of the other dorks who might notice you. ;)

Well played. You win. :roflmao2:

no really, got any? :innocent:

Having to ride through a boozed up city centre with few police around on Friday and Saturday nights after a late shift, I find switching down a few gears and riding "light" is always good. A lower gear makes being able to sprint off suddenly easier. By riding "light" I mean focused and ready to get out of the saddle and power off and being able to use your body to maneuver away from danger.

A strong helmet mounted head light, (enough to dazzle someone), although it might attract attention to you can give you those extra seconds to make your escape.

Nothing however beats planning your routes and making friends with the local bar bouncers!

One dork riding his bike each day is less noticeable than a bunch of dorks riding their bikes each day.

This is true. I feel like they would be less likely to mess with multiple people though. However, I'm just a suburban/rural boy. I've never had to deal with any of this. Oh yeah, just ride faster. :thumb:

Nothing however beats planning your routes and making friends with the local bar bouncers!

You bring up an excellent point - knowing the area like the back of your hand is a good thing...especially if you gotta run or take an unexpected, but necessary, detour.

I live in a "bad" neighborhood, but I guess I don't really get what "bad' is exactly. So far this year, there have been 5 homicides in the closest "good" area and 1 in my little barrio. Chipcom's advice is good, and I've never met anyone who was mugged when they weren't riding alone. Even one other person with you is a huge deterrent.

DRietz, imagine you have a flat in the worst part of the area and have to fix it. Would you still feel ok changing it right then and there?

I live in the 'ghetto' in my town (or, I did, it's more the ghetto suburbs now); my complexion is pretty much the wrong one, for a lot of people. There are areas of town I won't ride through in daylight, much less after dark. I'm also big -- 6'1", 230+, and I've been told I look mean.

Lotta ghetto dwellers think I'm a plainclothes/undercover cop; in their minds, nobody else my complexion would ride the bike I do through 'their' hood. One older man, @ Wal-Mart, in a powered w/c, nodded to me and called me "Officer", kinda like he thought he was calling me out and exposing me. I laughed for 10 minutes!

Unless you can pull that off -- and @ 15, in Oakland, I doubt it -- steer clear of the 'zone'.

Your mom's fears are justified...to her. You'll not likely change that. Your best bet is to listen to your mom. Life will be easier.

If your city has a bike planner ask them, as generally they are more aware of crimes that effect cyclists. The area south of me is supposed to be a "bad" neighborhood but I have never experienced anything. And in another part of town which is supposed to be better there are lots of bike-jackings and other junk that happens to cyclists. Crime maps specifically relating to cyclists can be a whole different animal.

DRietz, imagine you have a flat in the worst part of the area and have to fix it. Would you still feel ok changing it right then and there?

And remember the worst sections are apt to have glass and the causes of flats.

So far I have not noticed anyone asking the unPC question. What is your ethnic background and what is that of the triangle? I've been in bad areas in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Honolulu without any problems. Fair sized guy that does not dress to either extreme has alway sbeen more than enough to keep me safe. But those were generic bad places. There are parts of East L.A. where I've been told to never go after dark and never without a latino. Some places just being the wrong color is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you do decide to ride a route through any bad area be sure yuo know the alternate routes. If there is trouble ahead the last thing you want to do is stop to decide. You want to turn (likely right) and be elsewhere.

And remember the worst sections are apt to have glass and the causes of flats.

So far I have not noticed anyone asking the unPC question. What is your ethnic background and what is that of the triangle? I've been in bad areas in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Honolulu without any problems. Fair sized guy that does not dress to either extreme has alway sbeen more than enough to keep me safe. But those were generic bad places. There are parts of East L.A. where I've been told to never go after dark and never without a latino. Some places just being the wrong color is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you do decide to ride a route through any bad area be sure yuo know the alternate routes. If there is trouble ahead the last thing you want to do is stop to decide. You want to turn (likely right) and be elsewhere.

I'm not that big. 5' 5", 108lbs, Caucasian male. And the area is occupied by a diverse level of races, but it is probably a majority of African Americans, or at least from what I see.

The thing about the flat raises a really good question, actually. I'm pretty sure that's what is probably going to make or break this for me, and I've been pondering that question for awhile now. I can change a tube pretty quick, but maybe not fast enough. I'll have to ponder this a little further, but I'll stop in at the LBS and ask about some routes or rides in the area.

They should know. Hopefully.

1. Dress in a manner where you will not draw undue attention to yourself...no spandex, no wild jerseys, no fancy helmets, no fancy shoes, no fancy bike.

2. Always act like you know what you are doing and like you belong there.

3. Pay attention to your environment...avoid trouble when spotted or even if you just feel hinky.

4. Mind your own business

As long as you don't look like a potential victim or a potential threat or a potential dickhead, you'll be fine - in any neighborhood.

Speaking as someone who used to live opposite a project in San Fransisco with a crack dealership operating four days away - this is dangerous nonsense. If you're the wrong ethnic group in a deprived mono-ethnic neighbourhood it is impossible for you to look "like you belong there". And you will be a target for anyone who wants to make trouble or a little cash - not because the perpetrators will hate white people, but because they that as you're a stranger they won't risk the complications that come with hitting locals. (Which was why I was relatively safe near my house - people new my face and not to mess with me. Half a block away was riskier for me, even though it was a better- well, less awful - neighbourhood.)

Speaking as someone who used to live opposite a project in San Fransisco with a crack dealership operating four days away - this is dangerous nonsense. If you're the wrong ethnic group in a deprived mono-ethnic neighbourhood it is impossible for you to look "like you belong there". And you will be a target for anyone who wants to make trouble or a little cash.

Incorrect...speaking as someone who has not only lived in such neighborhoods, but worked in them as well.
You're so last century. :lol: Everyone is a potential target, but it's easy to look like you belong.

Incorrect...speaking as someone who has not only lived in such neighborhoods, but worked in them as well.
You're so last century. :lol: Everyone is a target, but it's easy to look like you belong.

I have to say - I thought you were an idiot, but the fact that you can use an emoticon of a little laughing guy next to a reply that completely lacks any factual or logical content has totally changed my opinion of you. No, really.

Nor do I think that you're an idiot because you claim that your suggestions will make someone safe in every neighbourhood in America. Because everyone knows of the wonderful work done by the Bad Neighbourhood Stanardization Committee!

Really.

When that other guy wrote:



There are parts of East L.A. where I've been told to never go after dark and never without a latino. Some places just being the wrong color is a disaster waiting to happen.


..He wasn't dissing your unique personal experience and knowledge of "the streets". Because you've had coffee/done some social work/whatever on a street where ot everyone was white. And that makes you an expert on every badland spot in all of the USA.

Guys, the flaming doesn't need to occur. Seriously, I'm not above reporting my own thread. :notamused: :dodgy:

I have to say - I thought you were an idiot, but the fact that you can use an emoticon of a little laughing guy next to a reply that completely lacks any factual or logical content has totally changed my opinion of you. No, really.

Nor do I think that you're an idiot because you claim that your suggestions will make someone safe in every neighbourhood in America. Because everyone knows of the wonderful work done by the Bad Neighbourhood Stanardization Committee!

Really.

When that other guy wrote:



..He wasn't dissing your unique personal experience and knowledge of "the streets". Because you've had coffee/done some social work/whatever on a street where ot everyone was white. And that makes you an expert on every badland spot in all of the USA.

You might want to take a chill pill, pal...there's drool coming out the side of your mouth. :lol:

DRietz, imagine you have a flat in the worst part of the area and have to fix it. Would you still feel ok changing it right then and there?

This says it all. It's not about everything going right - it's about something going wrong and what you're gonna do when it does. It's like gambling. You put your life up on the line when you ride through danger. Now, you can get hit by a car in Beverly Hills. Odds? Slim. You can get capped going through the triangle. Odds? 300 kids shot dead in 2 years in the killing fields of Oakland and most were just standing in the wrong spot.

Bottom line: Gamble with something else. Capiche? Oh, and one last thing. When you ride through a bad neighborhood everyday, you get marked. Losers have nothing better to do than mark you. My dearest friend's son lost his life at 18 in a gas station in the triangle - pumping gas - at the same station he always pumped gas.

Lastly, don't pay attention to anyone who tells you its ok to do it. It's not their life that's on the line. People love to gamble with someone else's chips.

Ride for the enjoyment and not through the killing fields.

End of advice...

Sometimes I think about riding to work so I could up my weekly miles ridden. Then I think about the area I'd have to go thru, the time of morning and who would be out then. Nobody good except me. And that remark about others gambling with your chips...so true. I've had several folk tell me "you'll be ok". I doubt if they're even up at the hour I would be on the road.

and just one additional point: why do you think it's seen as a bad neighbourhood? if the people you associate with think so, it is. for them and you.

don't do it.

Here's a homicide map for Oakland (http://www.sfgate.com/maps/oaklandhomicides/)...

It sounds pretty bad. 84 homicides this year?

Lest I be accused of being elitist: I grew up in the Fillmore district of San Francisco, went to Morehouse College in Atlanta, GA., and returned home to a killing zone. The combination of crack *******, cheap guns and ignorance simply devastated what were once bad neighborhoods into killing fields. War-torn is an apt descriptor. Heading up to grad school at night was a challenge.

You don't need me to tell you about da ghetto. You already know; hence the reason you asked. Said in ebonics: "Listen to your mama - she be tellin' you right".

And now the punch line: The thing about bullets is they have no judgment of their own - meaning - white, black or brown (for those that may have missed the point of it).

I'm out and peace be unto all y'all.

Alright, so I've taken in your guys' advice. It is quite obviously a pretty bad place to ride through, and the whole thing about the flat tire statement has helped me make my final decision. I'm not going to do this ride, but something I should have consulted before I even posted here was the end of all ends. My google-fu is weak.

Google maps gave me two walking routes. My original 2.5 mile route, and an alternate 3.5 mile route. Maybe some of the local members can help me out here, but anyways, I'll get my brother to drive both of them and talk it over with my parents.

Again, thanks for all your guys' help. It all really did contribute to my final decision.

Good decision and smart for seeking advice. That will keep you safe in life.

Very good decision. An extra mile or two on a bike is nothing. I add miles all the time simply because the alternate route looks more enjoyabe, doing it for safety is fine.

Ken.

I kinda wondered how an alternative route would be so far out of the way...glad that you found reasonable alternatives.

DRietz, a wise decision.

I used to live in some rough neighborhoods. In 5 years of riding, there were only two incidents, though. I was assaulted in both. I lost my bike in one and had to rebuild my bike from the frame up in the second. So the odds are that on any given day, nothing much will happen. But a bad day could be a very bad one.

I'm not that big. 5' 5", 108lbs, Caucasian male. And the area is occupied by a diverse level of races, but it is probably a majority of African Americans, or at least from what I see.

So you're like Eminem riding his bike through 8 mile..........doesn't look good for you :lol:

So you're like Eminem riding his bike through 8 mile..........doesn't look good for you :lol:

Except, I'm not a wangster. Thank you very much. :D

Yeah, I think my parents told me that route, to make it seem like it was the bad neighborhood or a billion extra miles. One extra mile is going to tack, what? Seven more minutes onto my ride?

Except, I'm not a wangster. Thank you very much. :D

Yeah, I think my parents told me that route, to make it seem like it was the bad neighborhood or a billion extra miles. One extra mile is going to tack, what? Seven more minutes onto my ride?

Many of us who commute daily don't take the shortest route to/from work for a variety of reasons. It's not like you are wasting gas or polluting the air because of the longer route. ;)

DRietz, imagine you have a flat in the worst part of the area and have to fix it. Would you still feel ok changing it right then and there?

Perhaps another good reason to use telfon tire liners and puncture resistant tubes.

Ride fast.

Ride fast.





...and die young...:D

:lol: