Classic & Vintage Bicycle Appraisals and Inquiries - How much for this Masi Gran Criterium and Ciocc

Masi outfitted with the finest in Shimano 600....

http://img188.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dsc0535ub.jpg

89 Ciocc of some kind, full Athena

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6659/cioccblue.jpg

also, since I'm posting anyway, even though this frame is only ~10 years old, De Rosa Endurance.. never heard of it before

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2683/derosa.jpg

I won't guess about the Masi or Pinarello (tho both look nice) but that Ciocc looks very close to mine. These later Ciocc were contract built by one of the big workshops who made many brands, probably by Billato. Yours has the same semi-fastback seat cluster and internal top tube cable routing (right?) as mine, mine also has a Cinelli "spoiler" BB shell and is all Columbus SL...mine has pantographing only on the BB shell and forkcrown and no chrome rear triangle, just the fork. So there's more variety in the details of Ciocc of this era, there were even a few that use Aelle tubing.
So, if yours is SL and given the full Athena gruppo I'd say it's worth $600-$700 on a good day in my market (and I'm partial to the marque), if it's less than perfect and has Aelle tubing and sold in a cheaper part of the world, maybe as low as $400.

thanks, that sounds like an accurate description of the Ciocc, kind of a second-rate model

My opinion is that for a majority of buyers it doesnt matter who built a frame or if the namesake actualy held a torch to it. Again, thats my opinion and I know alot members here prefer that a name brand Italian was made the company itself and there're others who actualy prefer that the namesake himself held a torch to it.

Without knowing the Masi's tubing I'm going to give a quick guesstimate of $600. It appears to nicely spec'd with a full 600/Ultegra group and rather pricey Concor saddle. Most bikes of this vintage and specification level in 9/10+ condition are in the $350-400 range and most are worth more parted out. In this particular instance I'd say its worth more as a completed bike. Individual 600/Ultegra components dont sell for much.

Ciocc: See above Masi coments. I'd call it mass produced versus second rate.

De Rosa: 10 year old mass produced lugged steel....$250-ish plus depending on a variety of factors like frame tubing and size.

Interesting.. the guy selling the Masi wants $1K, guess it'd be hard to get him down anywhere near that far.

I found a bit more about the De Rosa at http://www.derosanews.com/derosa/modules.php?name=Forums&file=write&reply=1&topic=703&forum=5&post=2848&quote=1

specifically

The Endurace was a full road frame (not TT or triathlon) made from approx 1996/97-2000. It was made from steel -- the Columbus Nivacrom type of steels, and very similar to the Genius tubeset used in the Neo Primato at the time -- but featured shaped and ovalised tubes, similar to those seen in subsequent aluminium frames, rather than traditional round tubes.

The frame's distinguishing feature was that it was fillet brazed, rather than TIG-welded, which made for a very elegantly clean finish. Remembering from a catalogue of 2000, the quoted weight for a 54cm frame was 1.70kg.

When it first came out, it was up with the Neo Primato at the top of the steel range. Towards the end of its time, the Spectra (subsequently changed to Corum) had been introduced as the top steel frame, demand for steel frames was declining, resulting in a reduced range of steel frames, and the Endurace was dropped from the range -- I believe at the end of the 2000 model year. I don't recall seeing it in the 2001 catalogue.

I am not an expert by anyone's standards but the masi appears to be from 1985-1987 based on the seat stay caps. http://bhovey.com/Masi/MasiBits/Stays.htm and it appears to be in very good shape. Six hundred dollars for a 600 would be a good deal.
The DeRosa is a gorgeous bike and I'm thinking worth way more than $250. If you can get it for $250 you could double your money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2000-DE-ROSA-ENDURANCE-56x56-cm-Frame-and-Fork-VG-EXC_W0QQitemZ180412106663QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item2a016647a7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/2000-DE-ROSA-ENDURANCE-56x56-cm-Frame-and-Fork-VG-EXC_W0QQitemZ180412106663QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item2a016647a7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I'm going to guess his reserve is $500 which means he thinks it's worth as much as you do, although it has some slight damage. I'd probably actually pay that since I just want to build a bike for fun, and if I don't like how it rides hopefully sell it at not too big a loss.

the guy with the Masi thinks it's a 72-74..

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/1397104461.html

Without positive confirmation of frame dates its almost impossible to get an accurate idea of price. Very subtle differences in frame features make a difference as well.

just for purposes of my edification on relative costs, how might you rate this one versus the prior posted one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350253757812&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

On the Masi...It has been repainted, its a Masi, but good chance its NOT a Gran Criterium, but a Prestige. Why? the fork crown, which is of the Italian type used on the Prestiges, the transfers are of the American Masi type from the 80's. One of the seat bands if not both are facing non standard, the fork crown is painted, this crown was almost Always chrome, there are exceptions, but coupled with the other stuff, screams repaint.

Not that that is in of itself is terrible, Prestiges had a reputation for fragile paint.
Not all the images loaded for me, would be great to see the Bottom bracket in a marco image where the stampings can be read and the style of cable routing elements.

$1000? no, not with Ultegra. $600? I would be a great bike for $600.

I asked him for more pictures, hopefully we'll see.