Advocacy & Safety - How dangerous is biking around cars?

I was listening to Howard Stern awhile back and he was talking about how every person he knows that cycles a lot in Manhattan has been hit by a car and seriously injured. Whenever I'm in a car and I see a bike on the road I cringe because it just looks so dangerous, theres so few bikes that drivers don't really look out for them and obviously they are so vulnerable, even what would be a minor fender bender could seriously injure a person. I recently moved to a place where in order to get to a great lake with a bike trail around it I will have to travel 2.5 miles of very intense high traffic city roads, and I'm debating whether its worth it as I really don't like doing it and intead just buying a bike rack and driving there.

A lot less dangerous then biking into them.

No I didn't read your post

cars don't kill cyclists. drivers kill cyclists.

Only you can decide what you are comfortable with. Yes, there is risk. How much experience riding in traffic do you have? I was nervous at first. By riding with a handfull of experienced riders I was able to learn some techniques for making yourself more visible and communicating with drivers and I became more comfortable. If you don't have people to ride with try starting out at low traffic times, head out at daybreak on a Saturday and see if you become comfortable in lighter traffic and maybe work up to it. I have come to grips with the fact that I very well may get hit at some point.

getting hit by cars isn't usually that bad...

I suggest looking around the commuting and car-free sections of the forum for car interaction. Yes, sometimes riding around drivers can be a little terrifying, but you've got to just suck it up and HTFU if its really what you want to do. Eventually, the cars stop bothering you. Fred yourself out with a day-glow/reflective vest and a really nice taillight (even during the day) and ride the road like you belong there.

Personally, Ive ridden mountain passes and desert highways solo on slow, loaded touring bikes, and still nothing is as scary to me as a busy urban street lined with fast-food restaurants.

Hi,

I live and ride in a densely populated suburban area and if you ride defensively and obey traffic laws you can avoid most problems with cars. Basically, you need to assume that you are invisible to drivers. There are courses offered by the League of American Wheelmen that are generally free or low cost that will teach you how to ride in traffic.

Also, don't be intimidated by cars. Being indecisive will get you into trouble.

Finally, you'd be surprised how many alternate routes exist that you never see when you are driving. I don't know your area but there may be other (less trafficked) ways to get to the lake.

Good luck. Ride safely.

getting hit by cars isn't usually that bad...

Ahhhhh........EVER the optimist.;)

Less dangerous than sitting on your couch

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

I never bike into work because i dont have access to a shower, but a few co-workers do as does my manager. We work in Midtown manhattan. It is pretty bad biking around Manhattan and some busy streets in othere boroughs (Flatbush Ave in brooklyn or hylan blvd in SI), especially during rush hour. NOT EVERYONE gets hit by a car. But things happen. Cabbies don't really look when changing lanes. They don't look for cars, much less for bikes. Having said that, there are a lot of bike lanes, that are somewhat observed. I think you just gotta stay on your toes and its doable. Usually there are some quieter street alternatives.

I was listening to Howard Stern ...

There's your problem right there. ;)

Howard and Ba Ba Booey for safety advise?
Put down the paper bag of model airplane glue newb.

I'd think that someone with the username HowardRoark would not be so influenced by others, that he would be a prime mover, unfettered by those who would water down his vision of riding wherever the hell he wanted to.

getting hit by cars isn't usually that bad...
...unless you're riding the wrong way.

OP - what city do you live in? I find that riding in a city environment is much easier when there is lots of traffic almost to the point when everyone is creeping along at 10mph.

I was listening to Howard Stern awhile back and he was talking about how every person he knows that cycles a lot in Manhattan has been hit by a car and seriously injured.

it is not that bad. i would even guess manhattan is not as bad as some places since it is so crowded the cars cant really get moving all that fast. Probably more collisions in manhattan but less severe.

http://sporeflections.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/times-square.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/07/manhattan-traffic.jpg

i'd think that someone with the username howardroark would not be so influenced by others, that he would be a prime mover, unfettered by those who would water down his vision of riding wherever the hell he wanted to.


+1 :)

...unless you're riding the wrong way.

OP - what city do you live in? I find that riding in a city environment is much easier when there is lots of traffic almost to the point when everyone is creeping along at 10mph.

I live in Dallas, but I have lived in Manhattan also though I didn't have a bicycle. I do remember lots of people going through central park but I can't imagine doing it on regular streets there. In Dallas, you have two options a new trail they built near downtown called Katy Trail and White Rock Lake which is near where I live now.

This is a video of a biker getting hit straight on in Times Square.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWu9rMPj7o

It's more intimidating than it actually is once you're on the road, that of course depends on where you ride. I've ridden in several large cities both here and in Europe and never found it so scary I wouldn't do it again. I've ridden through the streets of NYC for years and only had two motorist related incidents and neither were bad.

Don't be afraid to take the lane, driving on the far shoulder in heavy traffic encourages cars to pass you very dangerously. Also make sure your always aware, always!!!

Over 30 years commuting in traffic...they've never laid a glove on me.


I did do a George of the Jungle into the back of a motorhome once tho, cuz I was checkin out some gal instead of tending to business.

Less dangerous than sitting on your couch

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Coming from the guy killed by drunk driver. I liked reading his articles and journals anyways.

Hey OP, I live in Plano and frequently ride to WRL. I also commute to work year round.

Be smart, be visible and take the lane. Get on Google Maps, Mapquest, etc and see if there is an alternate route on secondary streets.

I will tell you that I've been in more near collisions from other cyclists while riding around White Rock Lake than automobiles on the road while getting there. I wont go there on weekends anymore.

This is a video of a biker getting hit straight on in Times Square.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWu9rMPj7o
Why didn't the van stop immediately? Was it really necessary for the driver to run over the bike with his rear tire?

about as dangerous as driving around cars

getting hit by cars isn't usually that bad...

Here we go...

To answer the OP's question... (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=593540)

cars? no problem. it's those white pick up trucks you have to be on the look out for.

Don't be afraid to take the lane, driving on the far shoulder in heavy traffic encourages cars to pass you very dangerously. Also make sure your always aware, always!!!

Says the guy who's name is hemprider.

I was listening to Howard Stern awhile back and he was talking about how every person he knows that cycles a lot in Manhattan has been hit by a car and seriously injured. Whenever I'm in a car and I see a bike on the road I cringe because it just looks so dangerous, theres so few bikes that drivers don't really look out for them and obviously they are so vulnerable, even what would be a minor fender bender could seriously injure a person. I recently moved to a place where in order to get to a great lake with a bike trail around it I will have to travel 2.5 miles of very intense high traffic city roads, and I'm debating whether its worth it as I really don't like doing it and instead just buying a bike rack and driving there.

1) Howard Stern is a bad source for any information.
2) Manhattan is a pretty-exceptional place to cycle in. The traffic patterns/flow can be very complicated. Other places are not usually as difficult.

==================

Riding in traffic is a skill that takes practice and experience. That is, you want to start in easier situations and work up to the complicated ones. Don't expect to be an expert right at the start.

Note that multi-user-paths (MUPs) can be quite risky places for collisions with other people (though they might not result in the same level of injury).

Riding in traffic is reasonably safe if you have the experience to be careful. Depending on what your interests are, it also opens up much more places to cycle and allows for much higher speeds than MUPs do.

cars? no problem. it's those white Broncos you have to be on the look out for.

fixed

http://www.drwill.com/wp-content/uploads/oj1.jpg

Here we go...

Where are we going?

Where are we going?

Into the void of BF controversy, which can only be resolved by a poll.

I thought we were going to OJ's...in the Bronco.

Into the void of BF controversy, which can only be resolved by a poll.

poll: have you died? yes or no

are ghosts allowed to vote?

poll: have you died? yes or no

are ghosts allowed to vote?

Considering the month, yes, ghosts can vote. And by ghosts I mean the banned. And lurkers.

I never bike into work because i dont have access to a shower, but a few co-workers do

A different topic, but I always wondered how/why people ride into work with no shower available. I don't want to smell myself all day, much less the guy in the next cube!

poll: have you died? yes or no

are ghosts allowed to vote?

Only if the ghosts are from Chicago. :innocent:

I was listening to Howard Stern awhile back and he was talking about how every person he knows that cycles a lot in Manhattan has been hit by a car and seriously injured. Whenever I'm in a car and I see a bike on the road I cringe because it just looks so dangerous, theres so few bikes that drivers don't really look out for them and obviously they are so vulnerable, even what would be a minor fender bender could seriously injure a person. I recently moved to a place where in order to get to a great lake with a bike trail around it I will have to travel 2.5 miles of very intense high traffic city roads, and I'm debating whether its worth it as I really don't like doing it and intead just buying a bike rack and driving there.

Just ride your Mongoose Paver and you'll be fine.

it is not that bad. i would even guess manhattan is not as bad as some places since it is so crowded the cars cant really get moving all that fast. Probably more collisions in manhattan but less severe.

http://sporeflections.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/times-square.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/07/manhattan-traffic.jpg

You have that exactly right. The other factor, which you don't mention, is that NYC streets are virtually all one way with parked cars on both sides of the street, which allows a bit of space in which to ride. It also facilitates being doored so I guess the parked cars can work for and against. The numbered streets tend to have lighter traffic (with the exception of #s like 23rd, 34th, ect.) Also don't forget the park trails on either of the rivers and Central Park covers 50 blocks of safe riding (but CPW is pretty safe too).

A different topic, but I always wondered how/why people ride into work with no shower available. I don't want to smell myself all day, much less the guy in the next cube!

Check the Commuting Forum. The topic comes up about once a week, and is well covered in a sticky.

Just curious....why Mongoose Paver (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=8399245&sourceid=1500000000000003260420)? I can't see how that can handle city traffic better than a more aggressive bike.

Just curious....why Mongoose Paver (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=8399245&sourceid=1500000000000003260420)? I can't see how that can handle city traffic better than a more aggressive bike.

Nevermind.

Just curious....why Mongoose Paver (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=8399245&sourceid=1500000000000003260420)? I can't see how that can handle city traffic better than a more aggressive bike.

You had to be there...

Where? At Walmart?

Envision yourself as a squirrel. Reproduce enough, and it doesn't matter if you get hit, your genes survive.

Seriously though, if you get a DiNotte taillight, especially the 400L, you'll be amazed at how more attentive and less confrontive drivers are from the rear. Trust me on this. Even my wife, who used to commute to work 11 miles on the sidewalk now has confidence to take the street and the lane. (Make sure it's on, I have been honked at from behind twice in the last 6 mos, both times, I thought, "What's your problem dips**t?", then I discovered I hadn't turned my mega-blaster on. Oops, my bad.) Email Rob, explain your situation. I'm 99% sure he will tell you that you can have a money-back trial run to test one out. These things are bleemin bright, enough to "wake up" text messagers and other inattentive drivers, and give them enough time to plan going around you rather than seeing you 50 feet ahead and hitting the brakes or running into you.

The only time drivers get close behind me is when I'm in a thru-and-right-turn lane on a red light, and somebody behind me blocks the vision of cars behind, then turns after I go thru the green, and the driver behind them going thru sees me; but then, they are going so slow, so there's no collision risk, and they wait for the left lane to open up so they can go around me.

For frontal situations, these are more in your control because you can see what's ahead of you. Nevertheless, a bright helmet flasher like the 400L, aimed judiciously at intersection crossers, left turners and driveway exiters, also works very well, especially on dark overcast winter days and at dusk (and super well after dark).

How dangerous is biking around cars?

Not any more dangerous than walking anywhere in a major city if you know what you're doing. I feel more vulnerable on a sidewalk than I do on a bike in city traffic.

I'm recovering from a serious injury incurred when a pickup mowed me down on my bike -- this after 40+ years of relatively incident-free cycling.

Still, I'm just wondering if you calculate your chances of death or injury every time you step into a car?

Just curious....why Mongoose Paver (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=8399245&sourceid=1500000000000003260420)? I can't see how that can handle city traffic better than a more aggressive bike.

Denali.

I suggest looking around the commuting and car-free sections of the forum for car interaction. Yes, sometimes riding around drivers can be a little terrifying, but you've got to just suck it up and HTFU if its really what you want to do. Eventually, the cars stop bothering you. Fred yourself out with a day-glow/reflective vest and a really nice taillight (even during the day) and ride the road like you belong there.
Personally, Ive ridden mountain passes and desert highways solo on slow, loaded touring bikes, and still nothing is as scary to me as a busy urban street lined with fast-food restaurants.

What he said. There IS some risk, certainly, but you can minimize it. Is there only one possible road to where you want to go, or could you take a less-traveled parallel street? Most places have an arterial road, but several side roads that don't see much traffic. Make yourself as visible as you can, with bright clothing and a colorful helmet (no fashionable black and gray; just put it out of your mind). And don't skulk along in the gutter--ride on the shoulder, of course, but if you need to take a lane briefly for safety reasons, TAKE it. A mirror may help, too, once you get used to it. It's comforting to be able to see what's coming up behind you.

When I lived in NYC about ten years ago I saw a taxi hit a bike messenger on Bdwy a couple blocks north of Times Square. Made a big crash and the messenger went flying across the hood and landed on the street (not hitting his head). This very crowded area went dead silent as all the people, myself included, stared at the scene thinking, 'Oh my god, that taxi just killed that guy.' The taxi driver jumped out with a horrified expression on his face. Then the bike messenger stood up, laughed, got back on his bike and rode away. The taxi driver immediately started cursing and shaking his fist at him.