Folding Bikes - Downtube 8H

http://www.downtube.com/Font_Suspension_Internal_Hub_Folding_Bike.html

I'm thinking of taking the plunge. pros and cons?

Thnx!

Downtube's are highly regarded for the price. They're definitely not the top end of the folding bike spectrum, but you could do a whole lot worse with your money.

If you do a search on this forum, you'll find several threads that discuss the relative pros and cons of Downtube's line of folding bikes.

--sam

I had one. Thumbs up from me. Great value.

The long running Downtube thread is here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=122760&highlight=Downtube).

Beware, I started looking at folding bikes because there was a review of the Downtube in Adventure Cyclist. I didn't buy a Downtube, but did buy a folder. Uh, several folders. They are addictive!

Speedo

I bought one in as a commuter this June and have rode 1276 miles. It's good value for the money and I am pleased with it.

Pros:
Quick and responsive steering.
Very solid build and feels steady on road and MUP. However, because of the 20-inch wheels, I have never muster the nerve to ride hands free.
I am 5'8" 160 lbs and have no trouble standing to pedal uphill. Riding position is comfortable.
Gear range, with stock components, is from 34.4 to 104.8 gear inches. Sufficient for most terrains.
No flat yet but then I don't ride off road.

Cons:
Stock brake pads wear out quickly after a ride through heavy rain.
Rear fender too short. No front fender.
Crank lost ball bearings and became loose. LBS claimed that it cannot be repaired and had to be replaced.
Gear slip on 7th gear. Cable tension needs adjustment from time to time.
Stock pedals lose ball bearings and begin to creak, get stuck, & even throw foot off pedal. These pedals can also be slippery when wet. As a result your foot can slide to pedal on arch of foot and risk twisting your ankle. Replace ASAP.
Stock saddle can become uncomfortable during long rides.

In summary, this bike with new pedals and brake pads is good to go. New fenders can help too. Happy riding.

Thanks for the responses! After a bit more research I think the bikes I'm looking at still include the Downtube 8H, plus the Dahon D3 and Giant Halfway.

The Giant Halfway is a bit pricier and has a derailleur system, which I'm not crazy about, but I like the design.

I'm more interested in the internal hubs, I've had some experience already with an SA XRF3, which I liked, but not with the XRF8. edit-looks like Dahon switched from SA to SRAM hub in '09

I'm not too worried about having to replace parts like saddles, pedals or brake pads, but would like to know that the rest of the bike is sturdy. Bottom brackets of course can be replaced, but stock bottom brackets should be sturdy enough to last awhile.

Also, I'm not too crazy about the suspension fork on the Downtube, after owning a few suspension fork hybrids I'm more interested in a traditional fork.

Finally, I'm about 6'1.5" tall, which appears to be near the upper height limit for both the Dahon and the Downtube.

Any tall riders want to comment on this aspect of these two bikes? Any additional comments regarding the 8H suspension fork or bottom bracket?

Thanks again!

I agree the front suspension is kinda useless, especially for big guys (I'm 6'0"). I don't ever feel the need for it, and on the 8H, it would bottom out often anyway. Plus, it adds a lot of weight. Truth be told, I eventually swapped it out.

The frame is very sturdy, no worries about that. The XRF8 hub has worked well for me. I'm using it with the Downtube Mini now. You do hear complaints about how fickle it can be, but IMHO, that's frequently a function of 1) improper adjustment, 2) people not knowing that you have to stop pedaling to change gears, and 3) inadvertant shifting of the grip twisters (which is easy to do). I have heard about longevity or reliability issues with that model hub, but don't have specifics, nor personal experience with that.

The wheels are ordinary, good for the price. The bottom brackets used to be a problem, but that was over two years ago. I'm sure he's shipping with sealed BBs now.

Downtubes are not Bike Fridays, but they're very good sturdy bikes. They're also easy to repair and parts are all standard and upgradeable.

the spot that looks weak on the 8H frame to me is the relatively long seat tube extension above the top tube, I've cracked a similar aluminum frame in this exact spot before; long seat posts definitely put a lot of stress on that seat tube-top tube weld joint.

I have a Giant Halfway. It's a solid bike, but I don't care for the hinge. It's possible to wear it out... and it's not something that can be replaced without replacing the entire frame. That said it would take some serious manhandling to wear it down (which is what happened with mine). I now have a Bike Friday Tikit which I like much better (but it's out of your price range).

Dr. Yan used to have non-suspended folding bikes, but it appears that he has abandoned those options. Still... it's possible that he might have one in the Downtube warehouse. You might try contacting him to see if he has anything available.

Another option in the inexpensive side of things is Citizen Bike... though I can't recall right now if they have any with IGH.

--sam

It's a sad day when $400 to $600 is considered 'inexpensive' for a folding bike. I could get a Brompton locally, but I can buy three of these other bikes for the price of one Brompton. In fact, maybe that's what I'll end up doing, since I need at least two for me and the wife...

another question, what about mounting fenders on the Downtube 8H or 8FH?

It's a sad day when $400 to $600 is considered 'inexpensive' for a folding bike.

You could always try ye olde craigslist. That's how I found my current bike at a good price.

--sam

on craigslist all you get is what's offered, not necessarily what you want. plus, used bike prices are through the roof right now where I live.

anyone got an answer to my questions about mounting fenders on the Downtube, or my concerns about potential failure of the seat post-top tube joint on the 8H?

I think Sammyboy (another forum member) may be able to answer these questions. Try sending him a private message through the forum. He sells Downtubes in the UK, but hasn't been too active on the forums lately. I think his website is velochocolate.co.uk.

As for craigslist... the trick is to expand your search outside your immediate area. It's a little trickier, but if you can find a seller that is willing to ship... you can get a great deal. Try this search in google...

folding bike OR bicycle site:craigslist.org

then click on options and choose Past 24 Hours. You can be more specific by putting downtube or dahon in there. You never know what might turn up.

Anyway... good luck with the search! :)
--sam

anyone got an answer to my questions about mounting fenders on the Downtube, or my concerns about potential failure of the seat post-top tube joint on the 8H?

No one here has ever heard of a failure there. You are right in that it's a stress point. It is the case for every folding bike design. Why don't you ask Yan if there's ever been a failure there?


another question, what about mounting fenders on the Downtube 8H or 8FH?

What is the question? Can you mount fenders there? If so, yes. Should you mount fenders there? Dunno, up to you.

What is the question? Can you mount fenders there? If so, yes. Should you mount fenders there? Dunno, up to you.
I guess I'll have to rephrase the question:

Why does the 8H only come with one fender, and does it have fender mount fittings on the front fork?

for the 8FH, same question for both the rear triangle and the front fork.

Why don't you ask Yan if there's ever been a failure there?

according to Yan there were some failures there before they increased the seat tube diameter, but personally I think it's too soon to tell how the new larger diameter seatposts will hold up (change made in '08).

So here's what I decided to do: I bought two '08 model Dahon Curve D3's today for the following reasons:

1. sale price on 08 model was too good to pass up ($475 ea. shipping included, from BicycleSource)
2. SA 3-spd is a proven hub and really all I need for gearing
3. no suspension
4. 16" wheels for compactness and light weight plus Schwalbe Big Apple Tires are better than Kendas
5. better pedals, grips and saddle than DT (I'll probably replace the saddles w/ Brooks anyway)

I sprang for an additional $90 for rear racks direct from Dahon as well.

Thanks again for all your input!

another question, what about mounting fenders on the Downtube 8H or 8FH?
I had both front and rear fenders mounted by my LBS without any hassle. The front fender is attached to the front axle and the front brake anchor.

Nice! Welcome to the fold! :)

--sam

I might still buy a Downtube 8FH to check it out, my wife is whinging about wanting more that three speeds now...

:eek:

Nice! Welcome to the fold! :)

--sam

Oh, I already have a Raleigh 20 and a couple of Strida 3.0s. But I've been looking for something that's both more traditional and more modern for a while now, I guess reading David Byrne's Bicycle Diaries got me motivated to act on that.

:)

So here's what I decided to do: I bought two '08 model Dahon Curve D3's today for the following reasons:

1. sale price on 08 model was too good to pass up ($475 ea. shipping included, from BicycleSource)
2. SA 3-spd is a proven hub and really all I need for gearing
3. no suspension
4. 16" wheels for compactness and light weight plus Schwalbe Big Apple Tires are better than Kendas
5. better pedals, grips and saddle than DT (I'll probably replace the saddles w/ Brooks anyway)

I sprang for an additional $90 for rear racks direct from Dahon as well.

Good choice. I like the Big Apples. Made a huge improvement, IMO, with the Downtube Mini.

Question, why go for the rear rack instead of of the front mount? (I believe that the 08' still has a klick fix front mount that attached directly to the head tube. If not, well then the answer is obvious.) I always found that carrying things over the front wheel improved handling on small wheel -- very low trail -- bikes.

I use the rear rack to carry my lock, my jacket and occasionally something like a six pack. I might spring for the front mount eventually, I think you're right, the bike has the klick fix mount.

I agree the front suspension is kinda useless, especially for big guys (I'm 6'0"). I don't ever feel the need for it, and on the 8H, it would bottom out often anyway. Plus, it adds a lot of weight. Truth be told, I eventually swapped it out.

Especially for small guys too. Mine is permanently stuck in the extended position and I don't like the geometry it creates. I know I could fix it, but I want this to remain a low maintenance bike.

Is the rigid fork sold at downtube.com a drop in replacement for the suspension fork or does it raise the hinge like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=59002&d=1195440444
?

I'm talking about this fork:
http://www.downtube.com/product538.html

I think it's a replacement for the suspension fork, but you could email Yan and ask him, he responded really quickly to my questions.

btw, I did decide to spring for a 8FH, at some point I'll post some comparisons between the two bikes 8FH and Curve D3). I chose the 8FH over the 8H because I'm still concerned about the possibility of stress fractures at that seat tube-top tube joint on the 8H (if the frame was steel instead of aluminum I wouldn't be nearly as concerned).

My apologies for raising this thread from the dead, but I'm considering an 8H myself now.

As most of you probably know, I've been riding a Mini for the last three years. Anyway, it has somewhere around 8750 miles on it, and I am thinking of replacing it.

So I am considering 20" folders. As a first test, I borrowed Urbanis' Dahon Speed 8 for two days, so I could see how it fits in the very cramped space of my commuter trains. The Mini is a tight fit, which is fine; and the Speed 8 is an even tighter fit-- but it fits, which is good enough. So, I'm wondering if the 8H will fit.

So, would you 8H owners please comment on the fold? I understand the handlebar folds to the outside. Has anyone tried it the other way?
Folded size is supposed to be 12" x 23.6" x 33". The one that matters the most is the 12". Any comment on that? Is it really 12"?

If you have made any modifications to your 8h, how did they change the fold?

And the suspension fork... I don't like suspension forks anyway. Yan said I should give it a try... should I? Or just go straight for the hard replacement?

the spot that looks weak on the 8H frame to me is the relatively long seat tube extension above the top tube, I've cracked a similar aluminum frame in this exact spot before; long seat posts definitely put a lot of stress on that seat tube-top tube weld joint.

Same happened to me. Very astute comment. Have to be strict how far you extend the post. You probably need a long reach being a supermodel.

Still the Downtube is a capable bike for the money as long as you don't extend the seatpost beyond the maximum point.

My apologies for raising this thread from the dead, but I'm considering an 8H myself now.

As most of you probably know, I've been riding a Mini for the last three years. Anyway, it has somewhere around 8750 miles on it, and I am thinking of replacing it.

So I am considering 20" folders. As a first test, I borrowed Urbanis' Dahon Speed 8 for two days, so I could see how it fits in the very cramped space of my commuter trains. The Mini is a tight fit, which is fine; and the Speed 8 is an even tighter fit-- but it fits, which is good enough. So, I'm wondering if the 8H will fit.

So, would you 8H owners please comment on the fold? I understand the handlebar folds to the outside. Has anyone tried it the other way?
Folded size is supposed to be 12" x 23.6" x 33". The one that matters the most is the 12". Any comment on that? Is it really 12"?

If you have made any modifications to your 8h, how did they change the fold?

And the suspension fork... I don't like suspension forks anyway. Yan said I should give it a try... should I? Or just go straight for the hard replacement?


I totally respect Sesame's knowledge of folding bikes but I found the suspension on the FS made for a very nice ride and its a nice tall frame too.

Rhm,
First, it’s great to hear that you DT mini has held up well after all those miles. I am using my 8h as an everyday commuter. While I don’t have the # of miles your mini has, it’s holding up great. It is my primary commuter.

In terms of folding, I hardly ever fold it. The only times is when I am picked up or am caught somewhere due to weather etc. Even then, I usually only fold it in half. The times I have fully folded it (as per the instructions) it is a rather large, clunky fold. Maybe I’m just biased since I also own a Brompton. Also, I just pick it up and put it in the car. So, I don’t have any experience of it being held together like on a train. Perhaps some Velcro straps could be a good back up? I have not tried folding the handlebar the other way.

As for the front fork, it depends on what you’re looking for. The new 2009.5 8h’s and the FS models have an adjustable Zoom front fork. My 8h is of the 2009.5 variety and I am kinda disappointed that the fork doesn’t compress as much (very small travel?). If you just want a road dampener, the fork will be just fine for you.

I know that older DTs used to come with these Zoom, non-adjustable, one-size-fits-all, forks that were very cushy. I cut through a lot of parking lots and drop a lot of curbs so I was really looking for a cushy fork. I contacted Yan to see if he could sell me an old fork and he didn’t have any. However, I am in the process of acquiring an old fork from another DT owner (crosses fingers), that I hope to swap out.

Here are 2 entries in my blog about the 8H. One is an initial review of the 8H and the other are some recent upgrades I’ve performed:
http://utilitycyclist.blogspot.com/2010/05/can-folder-make-it-as-everyday-commuter.html

http://utilitycyclist.blogspot.com/2010/07/upgrades-to-downtube-8h.html

As most of you probably know, I've been riding a Mini for the last three years. Anyway, it has somewhere around 8750 miles on it, and I am thinking of replacing it.

Fantastic!

Fantastic!

I agree! RHM is the Mini King!

Hello. I am pretty sure I am getting an 8H and was wondering if anybody found out if the Downtube Alloy 20" Fork being sold for $39 is the correct fork to make the bike into a non suspending bike.

Hello. I am pretty sure I am getting an 8H and was wondering if anybody found out if the Downtube Alloy 20" Fork being sold for $39 is the correct fork to make the bike into a non suspending bike.

If you mean this one:

http://www.downtube.com/product538.html

the answer is yes. However, if you are buying one of the 2009.5 bikes from the website, the included forks don't "give" as much as the old ones. The travel is not that much and you can set it to stiff mode. Try it out. You might like it.

ShinyBiker, thank you for responding so quick. I am mainly getting the fork to decrease the weight of the bike. According to Dr. Lyansky from Downtube, doing this will make the bike 1.25 lbs lighter.

I made a thread earlier whether I should get the Dahon Vitesse D7HG or the 8H. The 8H seems to be a lot easier to configure. Cost-wise I can afford the Vitesse if I really wanted it. I was actually going to purchase the REI Novara Flyby just because of the internal gear hub. But since they didn't have it and the Dahons they had were all external gear, I was a little put off. I was able to test drive the Dahons so that was nice.

Sorry for going a little off topic. If anyone wants to nudge me to consider the Vitesse more, please let me know in the other thread.

By the way, your a avatar made me smile.:)

Seira,
To complicate your life even further, one more idea: REI can ship a bike to your REI store for free if you're a member. Even if it doesn't show on the website. They can look on the computer to see which stores have one in stock. I know that my REI had a Flyby about 1 month ago. I'm sure other stores have some in stock; some probably closer to your location. They don't advertise this, but they've done it for me. Talk to one of the older REI bike shop people, the newer ones may not be aware of this service. REI has a great return policy so you can try the flyby, and if you don't like it, take it back.

Thank you for your suggestion. REI's great customer service was why I went there instead of other bike shops. And in fact, I did do what you suggested too. After I test drove the Dahons I asked him if he could find out if the other REIs had any Flybys because I really want the internal gearing. It took a little while for them to find out since it wasn't in their system anymore. I don't know if they would have been able to order the Vitesse D7HG for me, but when I mentioned about the Dahons not having internal gear hubs, the person didn't seem too eager to suggest ordering and shipping to store as a possibility. I will still go to REI for things, but it seems like purchasing online would be the most convenient for me.

I also called a store nearby asking if they had the Vitesse D7HG and the person said they didn't have any in the stock room but I could order it from their catalog and pick it up. I could have gone that route, but the cost would have been more, and I would have to drive there to pick it up.

I think I will give the Downtube a try. Thank you again!:)

I got the 8H with the non-suspension fork. It came yesterday, and I already rode it to work today. Switching the forks is pretty easy, except for the part where you remove the fixed cone from the suspension fork and install it on the non-suspension one, which is a little tricky (it's a job for brute force, carefully applied).

Concerning what it says on the website: "Folded size: approx 30 x 60 x 81 cm (12" x 23.6" x 33")" you have to emphasize the word approx. In particular the 12" dimension is very difficult. The way the bike comes out of the box, with the handlebar/post/stem folding to the outside, the result is much thicker. I found a way to fold where the handle post goes inside (between the frame parts), the stem is just behind the seat post, and the handlebar ends up on the drive side. Photos later. Anyway, by this method I am able to get the folded size down to 12" x 25" x 35" with the seat completely removed; and I really doubt anyone will get it smaller than that.

My apologies for raising this thread from the dead, but I'm considering an 8H myself now.

As most of you probably know, I've been riding a Mini for the last three years. Anyway, it has somewhere around 8750 miles on it, and I am thinking of replacing it.

So I am considering 20" folders. As a first test, I borrowed Urbanis' Dahon Speed 8 for two days, so I could see how it fits in the very cramped space of my commuter trains. The Mini is a tight fit, which is fine; and the Speed 8 is an even tighter fit-- but it fits, which is good enough. So, I'm wondering if the 8H will fit.

So, would you 8H owners please comment on the fold? I understand the handlebar folds to the outside. Has anyone tried it the other way?
Folded size is supposed to be 12" x 23.6" x 33". The one that matters the most is the 12". Any comment on that? Is it really 12"?

If you have made any modifications to your 8h, how did they change the fold?

And the suspension fork... I don't like suspension forks anyway. Yan said I should give it a try... should I? Or just go straight for the hard replacement?

I got the 8H in December 2009 and have been using it as my primary commute since then. I had a 9NS before that for 3 years and 3000 miles. I'm at 900 miles on the 8H (over 100 round trips @ 8.5 miles) and my commute includes 2 25-minute Amtrak rides and 3 folds and 3 unfolds daily.

Folded width is slightly more than 12" (I'd say 12.5) at the rear axles together. It fits comfortably in the "coat closet" compartment on Amtrak northeast corridor amfleet trains if you know what they are. WITH THE HANDLEBAR REMOVED (I put the handlebar on top of the seatrack and held in place with the bungie that also holds the 2 wheels together.

I'm almost 6' and the fit is fine, perhaps even a little less cramped than the NS.

The long running Downtube thread is here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=122760&highlight=Downtube).

Beware, I started looking at folding bikes because there was a review of the Downtube in Adventure Cyclist. I didn't buy a Downtube, but did buy a folder. Uh, several folders. They are addictive!

Speedo

totally agree.....

I didn't buy a Downtube, but did buy a folder. Uh, several folders. They are addictive!


I am immune to Foldernitis and would never get addicted like you guys do! :D