Bicycle Mechanics - Need to Raise Handlebars 4-6 Inches ...

How can I raise the handlebars on my Surly Long Haul Trucker 4-6 inches? I am having problems with my back, and also strain on my wrists from leaning forward too much.

I took my LHT into the lbs, but they told me the best they can do is raise the bars maybe one inch. That will not even be worth the effort ....

Two easy ways to do it. You could grab an extender for you steerer tube, Zoom and Dimension both make cheap ones, they're called steerer extenders. Any bike shop can order one from the Quality catalog--they cost around $20, come in various lengths as well as both black and silver finishes. Or look into your actual handle bars have a large upwards swoop to them. Both will probably require new cables and housing. If it is back problems you are suffering from the handle bars will get you straightened up better but there is also the possibility that you just simply need to shorten your stem a little bit to find the coveted "sweet" spot.

This the one? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gsEKLC0p5Ws/SiKsnopmFUI/AAAAAAAAAEw/ACu-WgMZeNw/s1600/lht052909aa.jpg

Looks like a short, rising stem already, so I guess a steer tube extender would be the next step.

Hard to tell from the angle but maybe your brake levers could move up on the bars a bit?

You'd be surprised how much difference an inch actually makes when you're close to the right fit, though.

4-6 inches says something is very wrong, either wrong size, or maybe just wrong bike. Or maybe just outside of the bell curve, I shouldn't judge.

I'd suggest stem raiser, as everyone else has first, but also remember, as the handlebars come higher, they also come closer, and this can give a really cramped feel to the cockpit.

For that amount of height you are going to need new cables and housing, I really can't imagine yours being long enough.

Changing the handlebars should be your last alternative( it's fine to do, just not to remedy fit issues). There aren't many handlebars that offer the positions of drop bars as well as a good bit of rise and upward sweep.

Before you change anything talk to a shop that specializes in fitting or custom bikes... they might have some ideas or strategies to help. There are things besides handelbar height that can cause some of the problems you are having.

Good luck!

How about some bars like these:
http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/products/main/HB235.jpg
http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/products/main/HB235.jpg

You can rotate them forwards or back to adjust rise and reach as necessary.

How can I raise the handlebars on my Surly Long Haul Trucker 4-6 inches? I am having problems with my back, and also strain on my wrists from leaning forward too much.

I took my LHT into the lbs, but they told me the best they can do is raise the bars maybe one inch. That will not even be worth the effort ....

Either you weren't fit, or fit improperly for your bike or you bought the wrong size bike if you need 4-6 inches higher. Let's see a picture of the current setup please. And with you on it if possible.

Got my new bike, went riding, came back, back is killing me. Hmph. Went the next day, not near as bad. Now, basically, okay. Some adjustment may be in order, but if you're sitting differently from what you're used to and only tried it a time or two, a bit more riding may help.

got a picture of you on the bike?

I have a stem extender on my bike, and I really like it. but if you actually need 4-6 extra inches, you might need a new frame.

As for extenders, delta makes one and it is sold at REI and other bike shops

On another note the LHTs come with the steerers uncut and are normally cut to fit. If this steerer only has an inch of rise you may be able to get another fork that has a few more inches or rise. I like this idea with the extra length of rise you add an extra stem and short bar for the extra accessories like a lowered front bag or lights or computer, ect.

How can I raise the handlebars on my Surly Long Haul Trucker 4-6 inches? I am having problems with my back, and also strain on my wrists from leaning forward too much.

I took my LHT into the lbs, but they told me the best they can do is raise the bars maybe one inch. That will not even be worth the effort ....

Is this a temporary situation?
If yes, extenders and maybe a adjustable angle stem may get you close 'til your back gets better.
If not then yes, you need to think about a new, bigger frame.

On another note the LHTs come with the steerers uncut and are normally cut to fit. If this steerer only has an inch of rise you may be able to get another fork that has a few more inches or rise. I like this idea with the extra length of rise you add an extra stem and short bar for the extra accessories like a lowered front bag or lights or computer, ect.

This is the best solution I have read in this thread.

I have considered getting an LHT because I need a tall head-tube to be comfortable, and while the LHT frame is not particularily long for the larger sizes, the fork is nice and long, and there is no law against putting a couple of inches of spacers under your stem before you cut the steerer to size.


I was going to write a little paragraph on how you shouldn't put your threadless stem more than a couple of inches above your headset, but then I remembered seeing this mentioned in a SHeldon Brown article on Handelbar height adjustment. (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html#threadless). The headset in the picture is, I think, a little unsightly, but that would be improved with some nice spacers that match the stem or the headset - these can be chosen and put in place after the bike has been ridden the bike and the ideal stem height determined.

Hi,
After looking at the pictures on your blog, it doesn't appear that you bought too small of a frame. Rather, the drop bars may be exceeding the limits of your flexibility. Also, your comments on your blog ("bars needed to be rotated," "knees hitting shifters," "raising saddle height") indicate you've been trying to fit yourself to the bike. Did the shop do anything to help fit the bike for you? It doesn't sound like it. Like others mentioned, you'll probably want the services of a shop that can help you with a proper fitting.

Given your desire for a more upright riding position, you might end up abandoning the drop bars altogether and getting a bar that's more natural for riding upright. One bar in particular is the Albatross by Nitto. It comes in both aluminum (see here (http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/handlebars_stems_and_tape?a=1&page=2#product=16-127)) and CrMo (see here (http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/handlebars_stems_and_tape?a=1&page=2#product=16-122)) versions. Albatross bars should accept your current bar-end shifters, but you'd need to replace your brake levers. They don't offer all the hand positions of drop bars, but it doesn't sound like you've been able to utilize all those positions as it stands. FYI, I'm just passing this along as a possibility for you; you and the person fitting you will decide what works best for you.

For example:

from boxdogbikes.com
http://www.boxdogbikes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3596520584_0b66bd3f60.jpg
http://www.boxdogbikes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3596520554_f7395104d9.jpg

from www.ecovelo.info
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2629370693_cd72a2fbe9.jpg

(...hope posting the above pics with credit to sites is okay. If not, please remove pics and scold me.:twitchy:)

How can I raise the handlebars on my Surly Long Haul Trucker 4-6 inches? I am having problems with my back, and also strain on my wrists from leaning forward too much.

I took my LHT into the lbs, but they told me the best they can do is raise the bars maybe one inch. That will not even be worth the effort ....

Your lbs should have suggested an extender. I have them on all three of my bikes. The handlebars are significantly higher than the seats on all three. Maybe this is all "wrong," but it allows me to ride long distances without lower back discomfort which is all right with me. It won't win me races but my concern is maintaining comfort over several miles.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=SM1977

Don in Austin

Your lbs should have suggested an extender. I have them on all three of my bikes. The handlebars are significantly higher than the seats on all three. Maybe this is all "wrong," but it allows me to ride long distances without lower back discomfort which is all right with me. It won't win me races but my concern is maintaining comfort over several miles.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=SM1977

Don in Austin

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

He probably just thought 'obnoxious' was the most appropriate tone to take in this forum. I wonder why. :p

You kids crack me up.

What a rube. :D

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

Any particular reason you chose to write in such an obnoxious style?

I have a Surly Crosscheck with Albatross bars that are slightly higher than the seat height. After I bought the frame I did not cut anything off the fork steering tube until after I had assembled the bike with all components and ridden the bike for several weeks with the bars set at various heights. The great thing about threadless stems on a long steering tube is the ability to play with spacers to easily set the bars higher or lower until finding the "just right" height. I have 70 cm (about 3") of spacers between the top of the headset and the bottom of the stem clamp.

It's possible that the stem on the OP's bike is also too long, causing even greater discomfort. When I look at most bikes sold as complete bikes in the store, I realize why I have always preferred to build my own bikes instead.

I have a Surly Crosscheck with Albatross bars that are slightly higher than the seat height. After I bought the frame I did not cut anything off the fork steering tube until after I had assembled the bike with all components and ridden the bike for several weeks with the bars set at various heights. The great thing about threadless stems on a long steering tube is the ability to play with spacers to easily set the bars higher or lower until finding the "just right" height. I have 70 cm (about 3") of spacers between the top of the headset and the bottom of the stem clamp.

It's possible that the stem on the OP's bike is also too long, causing even greater discomfort. When I look at most bikes sold as complete bikes in the store, I realize why I have always preferred to build my own bikes instead.

Please tell me that's a typo, 7 cm not 70.

I've always kind of taken stems sold on bikes to be irrelevant, they are only their on a stock bike to hold the handlebars in place while on display, since most any good bike shop will immediately swap out the stem on purchase for one that fits.

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

Their font looks just fine on my computer (iBook G4). Not too large here ....

What a rube. :D

Hey, y'all! We're having a rube-barb!

It does sound like the OP is adapting to a new bike, but a good fitting session is what's really needed. A good bike fitter will take the rider's flexibility into account. Since I'm Mr. Inflexible, I'm more comfortable with my handlebars near or above seat level: http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/letour/pages/bike032.htm

Here I am riding my Surly Long Haul Trucker ....

Thanks for all the responses! I will call the lbs in the morning and ask them about a steerer extender ...

Here I am riding my Surly Long Haul Trucker ....

http://www.discussny.com/members/vja4him-albums-bicycles-picture1961-taking-my-new-surly-long-haul-trucker-spin-sacramento.jpg

Oh my gawsh! It's the reincarnation of Sheldon Brown!

Is it me or does that bike look like it's on the smaller side for the OP?

Thanks for all the responses! I will call the lbs in the morning and ask them about a steerer extender ...

You may want to consider a set of Trekking Bars. You have more usable hand positions.

http://www.wallbike.com/content/JPG/kalloybars.jpg

Any particular reason you chose to write in such an obnoxious style?

Let us know when you have something correct to contribute to a thread.

Here I am riding my Surly Long Haul Trucker ....

http://www.discussny.com/members/vja4him-albums-bicycles-picture1961-taking-my-new-surly-long-haul-trucker-spin-sacramento.jpg
I really think you would look more at home on a Pashley.:D

I just called the lbs and asked them about adding a steerer extender to my bars, and they told me that won't work. Something to do with the angle of the bars.

Do you usually ride with a backpack? If so, I would ditch the backpack for panniers before making any changes to the bike. At least for me, I am much more likely to have back pain when there is weight on my back while riding.

I just called the lbs and asked them about adding a steerer extender to my bars, and they told me that won't work. Something to do with the angle of the bars.

Now that doesn't strike me as right, but I don't want to disagree without actually hearing what they said.

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

The same reason that local bike shops sell bicycles with 'racing' geometry that isn't really appropriate for 95% of the people that buy bikes, because they are obnoxious and have some ingrained notion of what fit is for a serious cyclist (a UCI Division I Pro).

Its amazing how many custom Serottas were fit by Serotta Fit Technicians, only to have the customer come back and retrofit a Serotta Heads-Up to bring their position up higher. The problem in the industry is that racing geometry gets shoved down the throats of people who just want to ride.

The truth is that most of us have an idea of what fit 'looks' like and try to normalize to that. Sure it looks right for a UCI pro, but in reality the classic aggressive geometry is why most bicycles sold in the Unites States hang in the garage. They create sore hands, wrists, backs etc.

There there is the whole nightmare of the local bike shop never really understanding fit. A good shop should have a sizercycle to recreate the different frame sizes to emulate the geometry of bikes they don't carry. However, very few do, and those that do reserve the machine for a $180 a session fitting with their fit specialist. Which necessarily means that almost every bike they sell is, to one degree or another, a compromise of fit. The sad reality is most shops don't even stock an Ergostem. I think its insane that a bike shop does not throw an Ergostem on every bike that goes out the door helping to dial in the correct stem for the customer.

I looked at the bicycle (Surly long haul trucker) in your blog. That bike is very very small. If you don't mind posting your stats (pubic bone height, height, arm length, etc.) I'd be curious just how far off you are in terms of frame fit.

I recently had a nightmare experience with a shop that wanted to sell me a bike of several they were closing out. I owned the identical frame of the largest one he was representing would fit. It was MUCH too small. The owner of the shop didn't know I had one of those already. In repeated emails he kept asserting that I was "an easy fit". I'm 6'7" and have nearly a 100cm inseam. I've owned many many bikes and aside from the 27" (68.5cm c-c, 73cm to top of seat collar) Touring Cannondale I just acquired, nothing has ever come close to fitting. Not only did he keep pushing the 58.5cm compact geometry bike, but he started pushing the 56cm stuff he had really hard. Claiming he had put many NBA players on this size. Even after I explained to the owner via email that I actually owned that same frame size, and it was too small, let alone the smaller ones, he repeatedly emailed me asking "what can I do to get you onto one of these bikes today." What a creepy used car salesman. I rec'd no less than five emails assuring that they could easily fit me to the closeout bikes they had in stock, without him ever having met me.

My point here is that the local bike shop doesn't always have your best interests at heart.

That being said, if you're married to that frame that looks like it might be much to small for you try this:

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/handlebars_stems_and_tape#product=16-190

You'd have to convert to a different fork (threaded) and quill type stem, but it will get you up!

You can always have a custom stem made up. I have a whole collection of stems that raise the bars almost 8". The biggest tandem I ever found I bought. Its a Cannondale Jumbo/Large. The seat collar is 66cm the Captain's compartment is a 25" size. Even with the elevated stem my bars are a couple of inches below my saddle. Sure it looks like a frankenstein bike, but sometimes you have to make what you have fit...it ain't gonna be pretty.

I'd go have a long talk with the LBS that put you into that Surly as my first step. There is some culpability there for the shop.

Oh my gawsh! It's the reincarnation of Sheldon Brown!

I hate to say it, but your position on that Surly looks almost exactly like what I look like on my bikes (that are too small but the biggest I could buy of non-customs).

In my opinion, a Surly Long Haul Trucker should be sized 'Riv style' that is slightly past the point of being able to stand over the bike "comfortably" for men.

Its funny how most people think its totally normal to not be able to ride in the drops. If you can't ride in the drops half the time you're on your bike, there is something seriously compromised in terms of bike fit. I've never ever been able to ride in the drops on any road bike I've ever owned. The bikes were always too small. XL Giant (58.5 cm compact geometry), 63cm c-c 66cm to collar Cannondale 3.0, Cannondale tandem same geometry, and others I've never kept for too long (Fuji Roubaix, Lemond, etc.).

I live riding a compromised fit on everything in my stable.

I'm telling you, I just finally found an old Cannondale touring bike that is 27" (68.5cm c-c and 73cm to top of the seat collar). I can't believe what a complete difference it is. I'm really tall but can barely swing my leg over the top, but you don't judge fit by getting on, but by being on. I've been looking for 66cm and 68cm bikes forever (Cannondales).

I never knew what 'really' being in the drops was like. Now I know. A good place to be.

I hope you find your 'grail' bike. I don't think your current bike is within a couple of sizes of being appropriately fit. In those pics you're riding above the bike. Not riding the bike.

Any particular reason you chose to write in an obnoxiously large font

He's from Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas :P

I keep looking at the pic of the bike alone and the pic of the OP riding it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gsEKLC0p5Ws/SdzIHZbpj-I/AAAAAAAAAEI/8CKut1lbRy0/s1600/lht040709ff.jpg

I'm no fit expert, but I can't state the bike is too small. The OP appears to be getting an appropriate amount of leg extension (but hard to tell with the cranks @ 10 & 4 o'clock and the angle of the photo). If it is indeed too small, I would think there'd be more seatpost showing (LHT has a sloping top tube), and the saddle wouldn't be pushed so far forward on the rails.

From the picture of him riding it sure seems like the saddle is raised up higher than what we see in the blogspot picture just above. Or is it the checkered shorts that are blinding me? :D

Vja4him, can you confirm that this pic of the bike is showing your regular saddle height or am I right about it being up higher than shown in this bike only pic?

Looks to me like he's way too tight in the cockpit - top tube much too short. His bars are already higher than his saddle. That's a crazy short stem. He should be much, much more stretched out than that. I'd like to see him try a flat stem that's about 5 cm longer. For every cm you go up, you should go 2 cm forward. I've been told that's a good rule of thumb by PBP riders.

The other thing that's wrong, is that his LBS is fixated on photo perfect bar arrangement, not on the rider. His drops are parallel to his top tube, meaning horizontal. Looks nice, but feels like crap. Those are crummy bars, too, with way too much curvature before they get to the hoods. At least the hoods are in the right place. So he should rotate the bars around until he can lay his wrists on the bar while holding the hoods. I'm going off the photo of the bike only for this. Maybe they've changed it. The photo of the rider looks better, but it's hard to say at that angle. ITM bars are nicely shaped, IMO.

This is also a training issue. I hear so many people say, oh my back hurts, or oh my neck hurts, I need a more upright position, etc. Yet if you look at the people who do the LD rides, they're not upright, they're mostly quite stretched out, mostly riding racing frames with bars 0" - 3" below their saddles. Why? Because spines don't respond well to being hammered on one end in line with said spine. They do much better if they are more horizontal and the up and down of the saddle merely flexes them a little and doesn't act on them in compression. Same with being stretched out. It's much more comfortable over the long haul if shocks which reach the bars are translated into arm flexion, rather than transmitted up the arm in compression. Now the thing of it is that this efficient, natural position isn't one we are used to. So we have to train for it. How? By riding our bikes! Nothing is better training. Sure, we might have a sore back for a while, but that'll go away. Sure we might have a sore neck if we increase distance too rapidly, but that'll go away, too. It's just training. Riding often being more important than riding a long way to start with. Look around for PBP photos on the web.

He probably just thought 'obnoxious' was the most appropriate tone to take in this forum. I wonder why. :p


:roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:,,,,,BD

Looks to me like he's way too tight in the cockpit - top tube much too short. His bars are already higher than his saddle. That's a crazy short stem. He should be much, much more stretched out than that. I'd like to see him try a flat stem that's about 5 cm longer. For every cm you go up, you should go 2 cm forward. I've been told that's a good rule of thumb by PBP riders.

The other thing that's wrong, is that his LBS is fixated on photo perfect bar arrangement, not on the rider. His drops are parallel to his top tube, meaning horizontal. Looks nice, but feels like crap. Those are crummy bars, too, with way too much curvature before they get to the hoods. At least the hoods are in the right place. So he should rotate the bars around until he can lay his wrists on the bar while holding the hoods. I'm going off the photo of the bike only for this. Maybe they've changed it. The photo of the rider looks better, but it's hard to say at that angle. ITM bars are nicely shaped, IMO.

This is also a training issue. I hear so many people say, oh my back hurts, or oh my neck hurts, I need a more upright position, etc. Yet if you look at the people who do the LD rides, they're not upright, they're mostly quite stretched out, mostly riding racing frames with bars 0" - 3" below their saddles. Why? Because spines don't respond well to being hammered on one end in line with said spine. They do much better if they are more horizontal and the up and down of the saddle merely flexes them a little and doesn't act on them in compression. Same with being stretched out. It's much more comfortable over the long haul if shocks which reach the bars are translated into arm flexion, rather than transmitted up the arm in compression. Now the thing of it is that this efficient, natural position isn't one we are used to. So we have to train for it. How? By riding our bikes! Nothing is better training. Sure, we might have a sore back for a while, but that'll go away. Sure we might have a sore neck if we increase distance too rapidly, but that'll go away, too. It's just training. Riding often being more important than riding a long way to start with. Look around for PBP photos on the web.

Where did the OP state he was wanting to emulate a PBP rider? Why do you assume he has a desire to ride like a competition rider? This points out a huge problem with bike fit today, too many riders are being fit and instucted on riding position without the slightest consideration for the type of riding they really do. Too many shops and bike forum racers/wannabes assume everyone wants to ride "racer style".

Where did the OP state he was wanting to emulate a PBP rider? Why do you assume he has a desire to ride like a competition rider? This points out a huge problem with bike fit today, too many riders are being fit and instucted on riding position without the slightest consideration for the type of riding they really do. Too many shops and bike forum racers/wannabes assume everyone wants to ride "racer style".PBP is not a race. Riders attempt to finish a 1200 km. endurance test. It is as much a test of bike fit and on-bike comfort as much as anything. The time limit requires an 8.4 mph average speed. Some race! Bikes used in these endurance tests do wind up looking pretty much alike as far as rider position goes. There is some variation, but in most cases, you have to look pretty closely to see it. I merely assume that most people want to be able to ride their bike comfortably and as much as possible. Bikes which do not present the option of a comfortable position are ridden very seldom. One can see this by going to any moderately paced group ride and examining the positions used by the riders. It has nothing to do with style or marketing, and everything to do with comfort. Bike position at PBP hasn't changed noticeably in 50 years, which is the reason that antique French randonneusse bikes are still sought after. See link below.

Your opinion is that this position is the position of a "competition rider." My opinion is that it is the position of a person who wishes to enjoy his or her bicycle pain free. This position is also used by MTB riders, who may or may not compete and who have much less interest in aerodynamics than a road rider. And that's the reason a streamlined version of this position is used by competition riders. It's the other way 'round.

For instance, I recently helped a friend who has been troubled with back pain for years. He moved his saddle back, lowered his bars, and put on a longer stem. Back pain is now completely gone.

I will concede that I am talking about those who ride 100 miles per week or so. I think if you only ride 5 miles/day, you can ride most any position without injuring yourself. However, riding the normal position will most often lead one to ride one's bike more, and that's the name of my game.

I will also concede that what I'm advocating is not what gets a lot of play in contrarian bike circles. It is however what you will see on the road.

Jan Heine is one of our foremost contrarian voices today. Here is a link to his 2003 PBP ride:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12734591%40N04/1388739763/

Looks to me like he's way too tight in the cockpit - top tube much too short. His bars are already higher than his saddle. That's a crazy short stem. He should be much, much more stretched out than that. I'd like to see him try a flat stem that's about 5 cm longer. For every cm you go up, you should go 2 cm forward. I've been told that's a good rule of thumb by PBP riders.Having seen the photo of the OP on his bike, I'd have to agree with you that he's too bunched up. The back pain very well could be due to compressing a vertical spine. Angled-over or horizontal backs will just move up completely over bumps rather than compressing (or pivot around shoulder). If he wants to sit that vertically, he should really get a saddle with springs, such as used in other upright bikes, like cruisers.

And the wrist-pain could be due to the locked elbows with practically vertical arms. It's impossible to bend your elbows when they are that close.. Well you can, but you'll feel like you're gonna rub your nose on the front tyre and poke your elbows into your ribs (not good for breathing). More horizontal arms facing forward would carry less weight and allow you to bend the elbows for shock-absorption.

I have to ask... What is with the second stem?

You said on your blog that you hit your knees on the bar ends. You are probably really cramped up on that bike.

I would see a fit specialist

A Yes to the above two posts, and a word to the OP:

We usually think about frame size as the distance from bottom bracket to top tube. The other important dimension is the distance from bars to saddle. This should be about as follows: sitting normally on the saddle with the hands gripping the hoods and the upper body bent over so that the forearms are horizontal, and with the cranks horizontal, one's elbow should be an inch or two forward of the forward knee. So try that on the bike the way it is now, and get your LBS to help you with your bars and stem so that the bike fits about like that.

BTW, for saddle location . . .
Height: with your heel on the pedal and the cranks in line with the seat tube, your knee should completely lock while your heel just barely rests on the pedal. And this without tilting the pelvis to reach the pedal. Try with both pedals.
Fore-and-aft: With the cranks horizontal, a plumb bob dropped from the bony process below the kneecap should hit the center of the forward pedal axle.
These measurements can be altered by a few mm, but start with these and don't change them without a good reason.

My own thought was that this frame is far too small for him as well. But I wanted to confirm the saddle height issue before suggesting that idea. But yeah, he definetly seems like hes riding with about as much comfort room as a sardine in a tin with 20 or 30 other brothers. Add to that the strong appearance of straight arms and an arched back to reach down to even the tops and you have a recipe for a lot of sore body parts....