Commuting - Review: Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 2.0

I've been planning to post a review of my Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 29x2.0 tires for a while but have been waiting until I had a few more miles on them. However, I've recently been asked about them, and my enthusiasm is outpacing my patience. So here's a preliminary review, which I hope to update later.

Let's start with a picture:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3336/3563927051_9a4ca9a496_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26382505@N08/3563927051/)

Schwalbe lists it at 50mm wide, and that matches what my caliper tells me. They say it weighs 645 grams (nearly 100 grams less than a 700x28 Marathon Plus!), and I'll take their word for it, more or less.

The recommended pressure range, according to Schwalbe, for this size (as well as the 26x2.0) is 30-70 psi, while most of the other sizes are 50-85 (55-95 for the 700x32).

I got these tires from Niagara Cycle Works for about $45 each plus shipping. At the time, most places didn't have them in stock, including Schwalbe. That's the case again right now, but if you Google, I think you can find them somewhere, though not Niagara.

So, those are the technical details.

Let me start the subjective part of the review by saying up front that I have a seriously high level of irrational infatuation with these tires. Towards the end of summer, I was thinking about replacing the frame that I've got them on, and my number one requirement was that the replacement had to be able to use these tires. Everything else was negotiable. (FWIW, I ended up keeping the old frame.)

The picture above, being a side view, doesn't do justice to how truly huge this tire is. It's no Surly Endomorph, but after a summer of riding on 700x25's this looks gigantic. I like it! :thumb:

I got these tires for my Marin Muirwoods 29er, which I use almost exclusively as a rain bike. Schwalbe says the Marathon Supreme has great wet grip. I tend to ride carefully on wet roads and haven't hit any unexpected obstacles yet, so I can't confirm that directly, but I haven't seen anything to make me question it.

I got the Supremes to replace a pair of 29x1.6 Conti Town Rides. I don't think I can make a good empirical comparison based on speed, because I hadn't used the Contis for a month or so before the switch, but my subjective impression was that the Supremes were faster. Without question, they have a better feel, which I'd probably describe as supple even knowing that probably doesn't convey anything precisely. You don't really feel the tire like you do with some tires. It just rolls. Does that make any sense?

I've got just over 300 miles on them with no flats. That doesn't mean anything, of course. Schwalbe says the puncture protection is very good. I don't question it. They better not flat a lot. I really don't like the idea of trying to fill these babies with a hand pump. :eek:

I've been running them at relatively high pressure up to now, mostly because I was trying to assess their speed potential. The description of the ride feel above is mostly based on that. But really, you don't buy a tire like this to ride at max pressure, do you?

I took the bike with these tires out for a leisure ride with my daughter this weekend, and I dropped the pressure to somewhere around 30-35 PSI, depending on whether you believe my cheap pump (30) or my cheap pressure guage (35) -- probably both are wrong but in the ballpark.

My first impression was that it was a lot firmer (as measured by squeezing) at that pressure than I expected. I was mentally comparing it to my 700x35 CX tires at the same pressure, which I realize is probably kind of a dumb comparison given the difference in air volume between the two.

The first day out at 30ish PSI I rode mostly on paved bike paths, with just a little bit of grass and hard-packed dirt. It did great with that ride, so I took it out the next day with the same pressure for my commute. Again, it felt great.

I can't say much about the speed because I had platform pedals on and I usually use clipless. It was maybe 1-2 mph slower than my typical speeds on the commute with these tires at high pressure (just looking at the numbers on the computer) but didn't feel slow. The tires still felt like they were rolling great.

Early on in the commute, I could feel the rear tire compressing a lot when I was climbing. I attributed that mostly to poor weight distribution on my part, and I was able to make it go away by shifting my weight forward when climbing. It probably would make sense to give the rear tire a little higher pressure.

The pavement on my commute is pretty smooth, so I had to seek out rough patches to get a feel for the shock absorption. It rolled over the kind of debris you typically find in a bike lane (twigs, small rocks, acorns, etc.) pretty well. I could feel it, but it wasn't rough. On badly broken pavement (tree roots growing under a paved bike path), it was good but didn't blow me away.

Then I took it across a choppy grass and gravel field/parking area at the local county fairgrounds. There I was really impressed. It ate it up without bouncing me around or bottoming out, and it was really easy to maintain around 14 mph. I enjoyed it so much I took a 2-mile shortcut through an even rougher patch of dirt and grass under some power lines on the way home. Once again, it was excellent. It reminded me for the first time in a long time that the bike these tires are on is a mountain bike.

When I first got these tires, I took them out on the Banks-Vernonia trail, which is mostly paved but has a stretch that isn't paved and one short, steep hill that is uneven with a bunch of loose rocks about 4-inches in diameter. I was running high pressure that day and tried to take it slow coming down this section (both completely wrong for that kind of terrain) and wiped out completely. Obviously no one would expect these tires to be good for conditions like that which would challenge most MTB tires. I mention it because they did so well on dirt and grass that it would otherwise have made me wonder why Schwalbe gives this tire such a low off-road rating.

I've never tried a set of Big Apples, so I can't offer any sort of comparison with regard to the comfort provided or other qualities. If anyone wants to send me some Big Apples, I'd be happy to give a detailed comparison review. :thumb:

Update: Added information on the recommended pressure range, 30-70 psi, and how it differs from other sizes of the Sumpreme.

Update: 11/14/2010, my first flat at 580 miles. See description below.

Wow, I'm flattered.

BTW

The official word is, this size is due to arrive in our warehouse on November 4th. The only other size that we do not have in stock at this point is the 20x1.60, which is also due to arrive on Nov. 4th.

Andy, the price you paid is pretty amazing. I can't officially condone these prices, as it undercuts our dealer network something awful. But I'm not one to begrudge someone who has gotten a good deal.

I've been riding Supremes for about a year now, in smaller sizes. 700X35 front, 700X40 rear. I keep them both at 85 PSI, and really love them. The 40 still gives a good ride, and the 35 makes the steering more precise.

Thes tires are amazing for traction, wet or dry, possibly due to the wrap around tread, which also does away with transitions when leaning over.

I used to average 2.5 flats a week - now, none since last fall (the day I mounted them.) I have picked some shards out of the rubber, but nothing went thru.

And, that reflex sidewall is really BRIGHT!

I won't use anything but these, as long as they keep making them. An awesome tire.

Andy, the price you paid is pretty amazing. I can't officially condone these prices, as it undercuts our dealer network something awful. But I'm not one to begrudge someone who has gotten a good deal.

Yeah, the price was surprising to me too. It made me wonder if they were overstock from a previous revision of this tire or something. I got the last two they had at the time. The Schwalbe web page on these says, "For 2009 we have completely revised our : HD Ceramic Guard, Triple Nano Compound, LiteSkin side wall." I wasn't sure what to make of that (the colon seems misplaced, like something's missing there) or how I could tell if I had an older model.

Seconded, I run 700x40 because thats the biggest I can squeeze in the frame, and it is a squeeze. I have recently started running them at a lower pressure, 50/55 Front/Rear, and can hardly tell the speed difference, but the ride is very nice. Wet grip is more than good, quite remarkable in my opinion. Have had a flat, curved piece of valve spring(?) snuck in over the belt. Only one in about 3,000km. The bike feels very secure on these.

My Canadian LBS has them hanging on the wall for 100 bucks a piece.

AndyK, thanks for doing up this review -- I've been considering this tire to replace my current tires when they wear out.

McLuffAlot, that seems to be a bit of a rip considering that the US price is $65.05. At today's exchange rate, that works out to about $68.00. I don't mind a local store making a few extra bucks, but that is a bit ridiculous. A little while ago, I called an LBS (I'm in Canada as well) about ordering in some Schwalbe Hurricanes for me that retail in the US for $15.95 -- the LBS quoted me $38.00 per tire! That seemed a bit excessive as well so I opted for a different tire.

Kojak, can you shed any light on why Canadian prices seem so far out of whack with the US prices?

Kojak, can you shed any light on why Canadian prices seem so far out of whack with the US prices?


A Vancouverite pays $750K for a mouldy crack shack. Where O where to start. :lol:

A Vancouverite pays $750K for a mouldy crack shack. Where O where to start. :lol:
Yeah, but it's got a view of the ocean. :lol:

Thes tires are amazing for traction, wet or dry, possibly due to the wrap around tread, which also does away with transitions when leaning over.


The tread on a paved surface does essentially nothing;
Even Schwalbe admits that: http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

I've been running 32mm Supremes on my touring bike for a year.
I can't say exactly how many miles are on them since I do ~5000/year split across two different bikes, but I would estimate ~3000.
The rear tire is getting pretty squared off and the center is now smooth.
So far I've had only one flat (front), caused by a massive 3/4" thick slab of broken glass that sliced the sidewall wide open.
I booted it and rode it 25 miles home, then replaced it.

The tread on a paved surface does essentially nothing;
Even Schwalbe admits that: http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

I've been running 32mm Supremes on my touring bike for a year.
I can't say exactly how many miles are on them since I do ~5000/year split across two different bikes, but I would estimate ~3000.
The rear tire is getting pretty squared off and the center is now smooth.
So far I've had only one flat (front), caused by a massive 3/4" thick slab of broken glass that sliced the sidewall wide open.
I booted it and rode it 25 miles home, then replaced it.

If you are telling me that you can't feel the transition zone of different tire tread designs, on the same tire, when leaning over, you aren't getting over far enough. Practice, practice, practice.......

I can even feel the flat edge on my motorcycle tires, even before they get flatlanded too much...... I go out to New Mexico twice a year, to try to grind the edges back down where they belong...

High Canadian Prices can be the result of many things. Probably the most important factor is not what the Dollar/Loonie exchange is now, but what it was when the tire came across the border. Back in March, the exchange was 126, now it's nearly at par.

I'm still getting accustomed to living here; grocery prices are astounding. When my wife accepted her job, we were negotiating her salary, and the person doing the hiring had the audacity to boast about the low cost of living in Victoria. ............ he must be from London or Tokyo. It's beautiful here, but it's not cheap.

The tread PATTERN on a paved surface does essentially nothing;
Even Schwalbe admits that: http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/tire_tread

I've been running 32mm Supremes on my touring bike for a year.
I can't say exactly how many miles are on them since I do ~5000/year split across two different bikes, but I would estimate ~3000.
The rear tire is getting pretty squared off and the center is now smooth.
So far I've had only one flat (front), caused by a massive 3/4" thick slab of broken glass that sliced the sidewall wide open.
I booted it and rode it 25 miles home, then replaced it.

Fixed. That the contact tread of the tire wraps around to the sidewall is a significant factor in how this tire corners.

It's true however that in most road riding situations (including rain), a slick tire works best. That being said, if all we built were slicks, a significant portion of the tire buying public wouldn't have them, so Schwalbe puts tread patterns on most of their road tires, as do the other bicycle tire manufacturers.

I have the marathon supremes in 700x32 on my commuter and I love them. The grip is so good, it's like riding on rails. Fast but comfortable ride. No flats with them yet. I'm actually on my second set. I put over 8000km on the first and decided to get a new set for the winter and keep my old ones as spares (they're a little worn and the reflective sidewall is mucked up with road grime, but otherwise they're still in good shape). As for the price, I paid 30 euros each (about 45 USD per tire).

High Canadian Prices can be the result of many things. Probably the most important factor is not what the Dollar/Loonie exchange is now, but what it was when the tire came across the border. Back in March, the exchange was 126, now it's nearly at par.
When I contacted the LBS it was only a few weeks ago when the exchange rate wasn't more than it is now -- we're not talking about previously purchased stock. And even at 126, the exchanged rate difference is no where near the +100 percent markup over your listed prices on the website. And please don't give me a line about import fees, etc -- I've worked in the import industry long enough to know what those costs are and I accept reasonable additional expense because of these costs but in this case the increase in cost to the consumer is out of line. Sorry, but I don't accept your explanation -- my thoughts are that somewhere along the line between you and the consumer, someone is pocketing an unreasonable amount of inflated profit (at the expense of Cdn consumers).

This is not something that is unique to bicycle parts either -- it's become a common practice in many industries to gouge unsuspecting Canadian consumers. What I'd really like to know is what the folks at Schwalbe intend to do about this problem (yes, you do have the ability to not allow your retailers to inflate prices).

The other option of course, is that I look towards other brands of tires that have fairer pricing.

Is there a middleman after the tire comes across the US/Canadian border? Or, does Moser sell direct?

We can buy from Moser (Schwalbe) directly off their website (at MSRP) if we want to, but usually get a better price from a LBS/retailer.

hey! I just calipered my 26x2.0 BAs, they are 45mm wide!

Thanks for the review on the supremes!

I got these tires for my Marin Muirwoods 29er, which I use almost exclusively as a rain bike. Schwalbe says the Marathon Supreme has great wet grip. I tend to ride carefully on wet roads and haven't hit any unexpected obstacles yet, so I can't confirm that directly, but I haven't seen anything to make me question it.


I've had to hit the brakes going down a steep hill in the rain,and got air under the rear wheel with the front just digging in and stopping. These things stick like sportbike radials.

I just mounted a new set about a month ago. Prolly got about 3-4k or so out of the others. There was still tread left,but something cut the rear and I didn't want to chance just booting it. Whatever did it made about a 1/2" gash,but only nicked the tube enough to cause a slow leak that I was able to ride on. The rear also had many scars,and I remember pulling about 6 pieces of glass out of it last winter when I swapped the studs on. Very impressed. One thing though;I noticed the new set were made in Asia. I thought they were from Germany. Hoping things don't turn out like the Conti T&C's;the current ones have little flat protection and I ditched the set that came stock on my bike after the fifth flat.

Here's a four-months update one these tires.

What a disappointment! Some tires just can't prevent a puncture.

Let me tell you the story.

As of yesterday, I have 580 miles on these tires. Earlier in the week, I could have been one of those people saying, "I've got 500+ miles on my Schwalbe's without a single flat." But not today.

It was dark and the streets were wet, but it wasn't raining. I left work and rode 7 miles to the Park and Ride. So far, so good. I loaded the bike on the back of my car and drove home -- about a 15 minute drive. Then, when I went to unload the bike from the bike rack, I saw that the rear tire was flat. Not a little bit flat -- completely flat -- no air pressure whatsoever.

So I thought this was a bit of a mystery. I've had situations in the past where I locked the bike up in the morning with a tire that I thought was fine only to discover it was completely flat when I came back for it after work. The dreaded slow leak. But this was the first time I've had a tire go from fine to completely flat in 15 minutes when the tires weren't even touching the ground.

Naturally, I suspected I must have done something while loading the bike -- bumped the valve on the rack or something like that. But I didn't remember doing anything like that. So I wondered if maybe some flying debris got caught up in my slipstream and punctured the sidewall, but that seemed very unlikely. Then I wondered if maybe some miscreant slit it with a knife while I was in the car changing shoes. But that seemed even more far fetched.

I didn't have time to deal with it last night, so I went to bed with no plausible explanation.

This evening, I went to the garage and hoisted the bike onto the work stand and proceeded to examine the tire to see if I could spot the cause of the flat.

I think it might have been this little thing.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4275993600_1840a24ed7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26382505@N08/4275993600/)

:twitchy:

Still hoping to save the tire, I unscrewed it rather than pulling it out. Here it is most of the way out.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2719/4275993170_f49a8ccb7d.jpg

A little thing like that, and the tire goes flat. :D

The mystery now is, did this really happen by some bizarre coincidence in the last 10 feet of my ride, or was I actually able to ride with this in the tire before it went flat? I'm not sure which of those seems more unlikely.

I can't believe the Marathons couldn't prevent something like that! ;)

I had 10 flats in 2600 miles on them.

Ten flats in 2600 miles seems like a lot. How have you done with other tires?


With regard to my incident, since I know someone here is going to think it, I'll admit now that I was running at low pressure, I think around 40 psi. You don't buy tires this size to run them at max pressure.

I am thinking about pulling the trigger on 40mm supremes for my CC.

I think you could have yanked that screw out with pliers and your tire will still be good to go for a long time. My 1st week on big apples I opened a 1/2" x 1/2" flap w/ a drywall screw, and proceeded to get another 2k miles out of it (2-3 more punctures through that same flap which didn't seem like too many considering its size, but I totally should have rubber-cemented it or something...).

I run 700x32C supremes on my main commuter. I'm currently on my second set. Combined, they have over 8000 miles with no flats. When I changed the first set, I yanked out a shard of glass in the rear tire that had been embedded in there for about 1000 miles. They're great tires, my favorite so far. Now if only they were available in 700x28C. ;)

How do you guys get so many flats? I run racing tires (Conti GP 4000, 700 x25) on my commuter and haven't had a single flat in thousands of miles. Over the past year, I've ridden well over 6,000 miles with one flat while riding on the road; that was with a Michelin PRo2 Race that I had ridden probably 2,000 miles without a flat. Most of the flats that I do get are "garage flats" where my tire goes flat over night from a pinhole leak or a failed valve in the tube.

I ordered one for the back two days ago, but now I'm starting to get concerned about fit. I do have pre-installed fenders on my KHS Green. It does say that they have 5 mm thick smart guard (which I guess would make the tire that much taller) and I do have that plus clearance, but not a whole lot more. Anybody has any experience with clearance with fenders?

If I've got it straight, SmartGuard means Marathon Plus, which is a different tire from what I described above.

How do you guys get so many flats? I run racing tires (Conti GP 4000, 700 x25) on my commuter and haven't had a single flat in thousands of miles. Over the past year, I've ridden well over 6,000 miles with one flat while riding on the road; that was with a Michelin PRo2 Race that I had ridden probably 2,000 miles without a flat. Most of the flats that I do get are "garage flats" where my tire goes flat over night from a pinhole leak or a failed valve in the tube.

It's highly dependent on the roads. I got flats on a fairly regular basis when I was riding north/south through Raleigh. I would say I averaged one a month, and this was running Armadillos, and marathon supreme's and the like.

I moved 14 months ago and have the same distance commute east/west (~20mile r/t) and have had no flats.

The mystery now is, did this really happen by some bizarre coincidence in the last 10 feet of my ride, or was I actually able to ride with this in the tire before it went flat? I'm not sure which of those seems more unlikely.

You probably rode some distance with the screw inserted into the tire; sometimes such punctures only causes slow though accelerating leaks while riding. Nails and screws usually puncture rear tires, the explanation being, that the forces of the rotating front tire, aligns the randomly orientated nail with the direction of the bicycle. So when the rear tire hits the nail, it may be perfectly aligned to penetrate the rear tire.

--
Regards

You probably rode some distance with the screw inserted into the tire; sometimes such punctures only causes slow though accelerating leaks while riding. Nails and screws usually puncture rear tires, the explanation being, that the forces of the rotating front tire, aligns the randomly orientated nail with the direction of the bicycle. So when the rear tire hits the nail, it may be perfectly aligned to penetrate the rear tire.

Hey, thanks for addressing the mystery aspect. I think you're probably right that I rode some distance with the screw in there. I was trying to come up with a mental model that would account for that. I know you're right about some leaks accelerating in the rate that they give up pressure. That still needs an explanation in my mind (the curse of enjoying science!).

I wondered if maybe while I was riding the bike, the added pressure from my weight on the bike was pressing the tire and/or tube against the screw tightly enough to form a seal, but then when I got off and put the bike on the rack it relaxed enough to let the air out. I think you could generalize this into a model where with any leak and any tire there would be a certain pressure above which the tire would hold air (assuming that the penetrating object stayed intact), but below that pressure air would escape and the further below that pressure you got the more air would escape. This could potentially account for the accelerating leak in the general case.

Does that sound plausible to anyone but me?

with my big apple puncture, I heard the screw rattling around inside my fender until it apparently oriented itself exactly perfectly to set up that puncture. "What's that rattling sound?" I asked myself.

WCoastpeddler,

My apologies, I didn't see your post until the OP resurrected the thread.

Since we moved our warehouse to the states, we almost never sell directly to Canadian Bike Shops/Retailers. Nearly everything that we now sell into the Canadian market goes through 3 Canadian regional distributors. We sell to them at the same price in US $ that we sell to US regional distributors. This price should allow them to sell to the Local Bike Shop/Retailer so that everyone can make money, and sell the tire at what would roughly be equivalent to the US MSRP.

As for control over what Distributors/Retailers can charge, we only have one recourse; stop selling them product. Dictating what is charged is not legal, it's "price fixing" and "collusion". The marketplace is the ultimate arbiter of the price of bike tires.

Generally in the US, the problem is the opposite, we have e-retailers that sell below MSRP. Once again, we can't call them and tell them to raise their prices; the best we can do is try and figure out their source and cut them off. With regard to this, it's not that we don't want people to get the best possible purchase price on Schwalbe tires, we're trying to keep our tires on the shelves of the LBS. If they can't make money on our products, they won't carry them.

All this said, as we try to protect the LBS, we also protect the end consumer by selling direct at MSRP. If you live in Canada, this adds a little complexity but you can buy anything we carry directly from us. Canadians cannot order over the website, but you can call our toll free number and we're happy to help you out.

I hope this helps. If you have any direct questions, please feel free to drop me a note, or give me a call.

gb

I'm impressed by how involved you seem to be on these forums, Kojak. I'm going to order a pair of Marathon Supremes later today. :thumb:

I'm impressed by how involved you seem to be on these forums, Kojak. I'm going to order a pair of Marathon Supremes later today. :thumb:

Thanks for the nice note and for the support.

As for my involvement on the Bike Forum board, for me it's really two fold. One, I enjoy reading many of the posts particularly since I'm a cyclist and I commute daily by bike year round. Even working in the industry, I'm impressed at the information that I find useful on a daily basis. Two, it helps me address the issues that arise for cyclists who ride their bikes everyday. When I speak with our dealer network, I feel more informed as a result of being involved on BF. I can also use the information I obtain here to try and influence our product line. One direct result of my being on these boards is that Schwalbe later this year will start producing 700x28 Marathon Supremes. I was able to pull posts off the boards and use them to put together a brief argument in favor of producing this tire. It worked.

At any rate, thanks again; and so long as I'm employed here, I'll continue to check in and participate.

gb

One direct result of my being on these boards is that Schwalbe later this year will start producing 700x28 Marathon Supremes.

Cool!:thumb:
Now how about losing the silly "Nike Swoosh" tread pattern, and making them smooth?

Cool!:thumb:
Now how about loosing the silly "Nike Swoosh" tread pattern, and making them smooth?

Shimagnolo, your preaching to the choir. However, one thing that may interest you, we are also now producing a 700x28 Ultremo R.1. It will not be as durable a tire, and the puncture protection will not quite as good, but it's a very light (220 grams) and very fast 700x28 tire.

With regard to road tires with tread patterns, I actually asked the person from Schwalbe who is in charge of such things about that very issue, and apparently the common misconception among the tire buying public is that a tread pattern on a road tire is useful and necessary. It's not true, but that's the perception. And, as I'm sure you can appreciate, it's easier to produce a tire with a tread pattern than it is to change a widely held belief. So, most road tires have tread patterns. To further illustrate this, at Interbike we had one of Franco Pellizotti's TDF bikes in our booth. The Liquigas team had Schwalbe produce tubular racing tires with a tread pattern because "that's what they wanted" and it was easier to produce these tires than argue with a ProTour team.

Shimagnolo, your preaching to the choir. However, one thing that may interest you, we are also now producing a 700x28 Ultremo R.1
...
It will not be as durable a tire, and the puncture protection will not quite as good, but it's a very light (220 grams) and very fast 700x28 tire.

Interesting!:thumb:
So I finally have another option when the Gatorskins wear out on my road bike.

Andy - you save that tire?

One direct result of my being on these boards is that Schwalbe later this year will start producing 700x28 Marathon Supremes.This is great news! Thanks, Kojak. Now if only I could think of an excuse to buy a new set of tires. I already have 2 sets of marathon supremes, 1 set of marathon XRs, 1 set of marathon winters, 1 set of marathon racers, and 1 set of big apples. 12 tires for 3 bikes (plus a spare wheelset). As you can tell, I'm a happy customer, but it's going to take me a few years to work off what I have. :)

Any idea what the weight of the 700x28 will be?

This is great news! Thanks, Kojak. Now if only I could think of an excuse to buy a new set of tires. I already have 2 sets of marathon supremes, 1 set of marathon XRs, 1 set of marathon winters, 1 set of marathon racers, and 1 set of big apples. 12 tires for 3 bikes (plus a spare wheelset). As you can tell, I'm a happy customer, but it's going to take me a few years to work off what I have. :)

Any idea what the weight of the 700x28 will be?

Not yet. I was trying to look it up, and so far it's not in any of our literature. It'll likely be a mid-year introduction. As soon as I know, I'll post the information.

Sheesh, 3 or 4 more tires and you'll have more backstock than most bike shops.

With regard to road tires with tread patterns, I actually asked the person from Schwalbe who is in charge of such things about that very issue, and apparently the common misconception among the tire buying public is that a tread pattern on a road tire is useful and necessary. It's not true, but that's the perception. And, as I'm sure you can appreciate, it's easier to produce a tire with a tread pattern than it is to change a widely held belief. So, most road tires have tread patterns. To further illustrate this, at Interbike we had one of Franco Pellizotti's TDF bikes in our booth. The Liquigas team had Schwalbe produce tubular racing tires with a tread pattern because "that's what they wanted" and it was easier to produce these tires than argue with a ProTour team.

You know, I can totally see that. Even after I learned about tread and road tires, I remember hearing that Gatorskins had somewhat of a poor reputation for traction in the rain, and my first thought was "Oh yeah, I remember them being totally slick without tread, I'm not surprised". And I thought - wait, what am I thinking?

If I could think that...yeah, that's a tough one.

Andy - you save that tire?

Time will tell. The puncture hole was protruding inward a bit, so I put some rubber cement on it and covered it with a tube patch for good measure. Looking at the outside tread, I can barely see the spot even when I'm looking for it. I also patched the tube because I only had one spare in this size. It's been holding air for a few days now, but I haven't had it on the road yet as I've been riding another bike for unrelated reasons. At this point, I'm very optimistic.

You know, I can totally see that. Even after I learned about tread and road tires, I remember hearing that Gatorskins had somewhat of a poor reputation for traction in the rain, and my first thought was "Oh yeah, I remember them being totally slick without tread, I'm not surprised". And I thought - wait, what am I thinking?

If I could think that...yeah, that's a tough one.

I have to say, I've never had a problem with Gatorskins and rain slippage; back when (before I worked here) I had Gatorskins on two of my bikes for winter commuting and training. They are not the most supple tires you'll ever ride; the compound is the most likely culprit if someone is having traction issues, but for the price, they serve a purpose and many people are happy with them. How can you argue with that?

I have to say, I've never had a problem with Gatorskins and rain slippage; back when (before I worked here) I had Gatorskins on two of my bikes for winter commuting and training. They are not the most supple tires you'll ever ride; the compound is the most likely culprit if someone is having traction issues, but for the price, they serve a purpose and many people are happy with them. How can you argue with that?

I was afraid someone would read to much into my comment about Gatorskins - my point was about my knee-jerk reaction about tread, not about the Gatorskins - I don't know much about the Gatorskins, I use Panaracer TServ's on my "cheaper tires with good puncture protection" bikes.

Hi Paul,

I understood your point, but in my position, I have to be very careful about what I say and how it's perceived. The short version of my response would have been:

"If someone was having slippage problems, it's most likely the compound that is at fault, not the tread pattern or lack thereof."

I didn't want to come off as sounding like I was saying that the Gatorskins were a bad tire.... I think they perform as they are supposed to, and in my experience, I have never had any issues.

But you're right, it's not easy to change long held perceptions, even in the face of understanding the facts.

Tread looks cooler anyways ;)

Hi Paul,

I understood your point, but in my position, I have to be very careful about what I say and how it's perceived. The short version of my response would have been:

"If someone was having slippage problems, it's most likely the compound that is at fault, not the tread pattern or lack thereof."

I didn't want to come off as sounding like I was saying that the Gatorskins were a bad tire.... I think they perform as they are supposed to, and in my experience, I have never had any issues.

But you're right, it's not easy to change long held perceptions, even in the face of understanding the facts.

Yeah, I kinda thought that might be it. If you want me to *****, moan, and complain about something Schwalbe, I was trying to find a cushy fast rolling tire for my uncles bike (it came with 32c, he thought it was kinda a harsh ride, but as one of the newer bikes it's not designed to take much above 35c), and I cannot tell you how unbelievable difficult it was to even find a shop that could order the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme in a 700x40c!

I think I called 5 shops before I found one that could even *order* it - I know it was at least 3. Everyone else said "Sure, we can order it" then they looked it up and Quality Bike Products doesn't stock it (only in the 2" version, and that's to big for the bike frame). I finally found a shop that was able to order directly from you guys, which was great, but even they didn't stock it - I had them put a regular marathon on the bike for sizing purposes, then custom order it. I didn't realize I could order directly off the website - which is great, but I would have felt pretty crappy having a shop try on the tire than ordering it myself.

I'm really happy Schwalbe makes the Marathon Supreme 700x40c, as it was the only big, cushy, fast rolling tire I could even find that would fit my uncles bike. But man, what a PITA to size and order one.

For the record, any shop can order tires from us, all they have to do is call. It takes me about 30 seconds to set up a shop account in our customer files. That being said, there will be situations where a shop is unwilling to order tires from us. Distributors often offer free freight or other inducements to place an order that exceeds a certain $ limit. We do the same, but a shop can order tires, lights, clothing, etc. etc. from a distributor to hit the free freight threshold. We only have tires and tubes. The other issue being, our distributors generally do a nice job for us, but none of them carry our entire line. They all pretty much have the same model of stocking our very best selling items and nothing else. The 700x40 is a perfect example; we don't sell tons of them, but we sell enough to stock them. As far as I know, none of our distributors carries this tire.

Anyone wanting a Schwalbe tire from their local shop can take our phone number in, and have them call us. We have no minimums, so there really are no barriers.

Thanks for the nice note and for the support.

As for my involvement on the Bike Forum board, for me it's really two fold. One, I enjoy reading many of the posts particularly since I'm a cyclist and I commute daily by bike year round. Even working in the industry, I'm impressed at the information that I find useful on a daily basis. Two, it helps me address the issues that arise for cyclists who ride their bikes everyday. When I speak with our dealer network, I feel more informed as a result of being involved on BF. I can also use the information I obtain here to try and influence our product line. One direct result of my being on these boards is that Schwalbe later this year will start producing 700x28 Marathon Supremes. I was able to pull posts off the boards and use them to put together a brief argument in favor of producing this tire. It worked.

At any rate, thanks again; and so long as I'm employed here, I'll continue to check in and participate.

gb
Aaagh! I was so wishing to find Marathon Supremes in 700x28 when I ordered the 700x32 tires. Well, this is still awesome news for several including myself. Thank you so much for your role in this. I'm already putting those 700x28s in memory for my next tires. As for your reasons and benefits of being involved in this forum, I wholeheartedly agree with your approach and am grateful. Yet my appreciation is quickly overshadowed by wondering why, why, why I don't see more industry insiders such as yourself reaping the benefits of involvement in the community they serve in something as accessible as an online forum (and a large one at that). It seems like a no-brainer, win-win sort of thing. I wish there were more like you. :thumb:

Aaagh! I was so wishing to find Marathon Supremes in 700x28 when I ordered the 700x32 tires. Well, this is still awesome news for several including myself. Thank you so much for your role in this. I'm already putting those 700x28s in memory for my next tires. As for your reasons and benefits of being involved in this forum, I wholeheartedly agree with your approach and am grateful. Yet my appreciation is quickly overshadowed by wondering why, why, why I don't see more industry insiders such as yourself reaping the benefits of involvement in the community they serve in something as accessible as an online forum (and a large one at that). It seems like a no-brainer, win-win sort of thing. I wish there were more like you. :thumb:

Do what I did - use different sizes.

I happened to have two sets of Supremes for my Hybrid. 700X35 and 700X40.

i use the 40 on the back for comfort and capacity, and the 35 on the front for quicker and more precise steering. There is no increase in harshness on the front with the 35 on there, but, noticable comfort improvements with the wider on the rear. Installing a 35 on the rear incresed the harshness A LOT!

I happened on this combination purely by chance, and glad I did. I will probably do it this way forever.