Winter Cycling - Is there an alternative to studded tires?

..Or is it as good as it gets?
I'd rather avoid the extra expense by using wide tires (cruiser type?) on my hybrid for the upcoming Chicago winter, but I'm not sure if this would be good enough. Are studded (Nokian) tires an absolute must?
Thanks in advance!

Are studded (Nokian) tires an absolute must?


Of course not.

I ride with them most of the winter, but I've ridden quite a bit in past winters without them. I just rode slower if I thought it was slippery.

I got by just fine using some cross tires last winter.
If it seemed like a really icy day I would just catch a ride in or drive.

You can always make your own studded tires if you want to save some money, there is a sticky of how to do it.

Are studded (Nokian) tires an absolute must?

They are for me although I'm on Kenda Klondike 2.1's.

I live at the top of a hill and on a street that's also one of the last to get plowed. I hit 30 mph without pedaling when I'm on the roadie bike. The thought of trying to check my speed without studs is as scary as descending without brakes. I'm pretty sure I'd end up spinning out trying to climb it on my way home too.

Can you get buy without them... sure, but what is your medical deducatable? I bough cheap Innova tires my 1st winter. I learned the hard way that is may not be worth it. The Innovas cost me $70 for a set vs. $100 for the carbite sudded Nokias. After less than 2 months of use the Innova studs were ground smooth and caused me to go down hard on some icy conditions. I nearly did some major damage to my elbo and shoulder. I got lucky and after a few days I could move my arm again and after two weeks I could ride again. Now I have nearly two hole winters on my Nokia studs and they look pretty as good as the day I bought them. Driving for two weeks I spent about $50 on fuel vs. cycling... so much for cheap tires being a good solution. They plow very well around here, but the winters are still long and cold. There are lots of icy patches around. I personally would not ride without studs. I don't enjoy the extra rolling resistance. But the security is worth every penny. I figure I'll get at least an other 2 years out of the tires. $25 per year is a great investment.

Happy riding,
André

My experiences are almost identical to andrelam's.
I've been running Nokian Extreme 294s. Decided they'd pay for themselves fairly quickly by enabling me to ride every day through the winter.

For what it's worth, I'm just starting the 5th winter with the same tires. They have just over 6800km on them & still work great. The studs that run down the middle are a bit worn but still effective.

I've ridden over twenty urban Canadian winters by using normal knobbies. Never owned studded tires. Now ice racin'....

..Or is it as good as it gets?
I'd rather avoid the extra expense by using wide tires (cruiser type?) on my hybrid for the upcoming Chicago winter, but I'm not sure if this would be good enough. Are studded (Nokian) tires an absolute must?
Thanks in advance!

If you are riding a mountain bike then you can get the widest knobbies that will fit on your bike and run them at around 20-25 psi. Try to get at least a 2.5 inch wide or wider tire. Big knobbies are better for deep snow, small ones roll better on pavement and asphalt and ice.

You can "get by" without them, I have for years, but once you've commuted an icy winter on them, there's no going back to ridin' without them.

Yesterday, I was rippin' down a glare ice, 4 lane road, keeping up with traffic at 25 mph confident in my traction and I that wasn't going to go down on the ice. I don't like going down on ice, but I especially don't like going down on ice in front of cars. I would never ride on a road like that with the CX knobby tires I use to commute on.

The $150 invesment in studded tires is worth every penny if it means that I can be around to watch my kids grow up.

Okay, I'm convince now. I gotta have 'em studded tires. :)

Thanks for pointing out the DIY sticky. Making it myself would really save me some $$, as I already have knobby tires I can practice on.
Off to Hardware store I go!

Oh, before I go, in the sticky section, there's one that has chained tires, which one is more effective, chain or studs?

BTW, the bike that will sport this tires is my 1984 Ross Mt. Whitney. Crossing fingers I do it right the first time.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_1912.jpg

I don't like going down on ice, but I especially don't like going down on ice in front of cars.

Early one morning on the way to work, while I (and the bike) were sliding on our sides across the oncoming lane in front of an oncoming pickup truck, I found myself thinking:
"A pair of studded tires seems like a *really* good idea about now.":eek:
It was really nice of the truck to stop.:(

My alternatives to studded tires were either creeping along at walking speed or
tearing up my kneeguards and hips by fishtailing and wiping out every couple of
minutes.

I would not waste time making studded tires. I could see if you had a very specific application--- like racing on a frozen lake--- but for commuting?

I use Nokian Extremes--- love them. I will add that studs don't do much in snow--- regular mtn bike knobbies are generally adequate-- except that usually where there is snow, there is ice.

Imagine the rolling resistance of chains?! Studs alone will slow you down.

Winnipeg cleared the roads fairly well and so I was able to ride with knobbies ... with less air in them, of course. I commuted year round as well as riding on weekends for 6 years with no problems.

Alberta, or at least central Alberta, seems unaware of how to clear roads. I would have ridden more if I had purchased studded tires.

So it does depend on your area.

My DIY studded tyres have served me very well and seen 1000's and 1000's of km of winter riding... over the past 4 years I have gone down once and that was with studded tyres.

I was climbing out of a dry rut onto some packed snow and ice at a speed I should not have been going and the studded tyres slowed me enough that I didn't hit the ground at full speed and had enough ice chips to make margaritas afterwards.

I also ride without studded tyres in the winter...but not when the streets turn into skating rinks as they did last week.

My little sister needs to build herself some new studded tyres as hers have finally worn out... after 9 years of winter commuting.

You can "get by" without them, I have for years, but once you've commuted an icy winter on them, there's no going back to ridin' without them.

Yesterday, I was rippin' down a glare ice, 4 lane road, keeping up with traffic at 25 mph confident in my traction and I that wasn't going to go down on the ice.

I remember a few winters back when traffic was creeping down Southeast Blvd. at 5mph (there's a stop sign at the bottom), juuuuuust on the edge of losing it. I was all "LOL, cya" as I blasted by in the bikes-only lane at >20mph. Traction on ice is addictive. You'll like tearing away from stoplights while the cars spin, too.

Do it. $86 shipped for a set of Mount & Grounds at aebike.com, last I checked. Divide that by four years and tell me how that's not a good value :thumb:

I would not waste time making studded tires. I could see if you had a very specific application--- like racing on a frozen lake--- but for commuting?


Imagine the rolling resistance of chains?! Studs alone will slow you down.

It's totally not a waste of time, if you have a drill press and a hand drill you can rip
one out in about an hour and a half, and they don't have to have 300-400 studs per tire.
Studs can add rolling resistance on dry pavement but can increase your top
speed on a slippery surface a lot, so it balances out. Yes I use mine for commuting.
When the roads are finally fully clear I swap in a different set of wheels with unstudded tires.

To each their own. I prefer Nokian Extremes. I run two wheelsets in the winter--- studded and regular myself-- and commute daily through winter. I find a substantial difference in rolling resistance running studs, so I try to avoid using them as much as possible (and also to reduce wear on the studs). Just saying---- it isn't like there are any alternatives when the roads are icy. To me, my bike is my car--- so I don't really care about the extra expense involved with buying equipment (like an extra wheel set, discs, cog, skewers, and of course studded tires and tubes). When the weather is really bad, i can still ride to work faster than driving (roads are like a parking lot around here). But of course I appreciate the DIY sentiment. Around here, all the bikes shops carry a variety of studded tires, so they are cheap and easy to find.


It's totally not a waste of time, if you have a drill press and a hand drill you can rip
one out in about an hour and a half, and they don't have to have 300-400 studs per tire.
Studs can add rolling resistance on dry pavement but can increase your top
speed on a slippery surface a lot, so it balances out. Yes I use mine for commuting.
When the roads are finally fully clear I swap in a different set of wheels with unstudded tires.

Making your own set of studded tires for street use just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How would you get the studs to sit just a hair above the tread-line, like Nokian does? Seems like you'd end up with screws protruding much more than a designed-in stud, and that would lead to much greater pedaling effort.

Making your own set of studded tires for street use just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How would you get the studs to sit just a hair above the tread-line, like Nokian does? Seems like you'd end up with screws protruding much more than a designed-in stud, and that would lead to much greater pedaling effort.

I guess it just takes practice in studding your own tyres...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/chinookfender2.JPG

Running at 60 psi these studs make the barest of contact with the road when the bike is running in a straight line and only engage when the bike is off camber.

Since these tyres can be run as low as 35 psi you can get the studs to engage more while riding in a straight line should the roads be really icy.

This makes for some pretty fast rolling winter tyres that are also very capable when it gets icy or when a patch of ice catches you by surprise.

Making your own set of studded tires for street use just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How would you get the studs to sit just a hair above the tread-line, like Nokian does? Seems like you'd end up with screws protruding much more than a designed-in stud, and that would lead to much greater pedaling effort.

I fine-tune stud(screw) height with a pair of cable cutters designed for cutting
hardened steel cable.

I think studded tires are indeed a necessity. I'm rather tired of making the same argument, so I won't go on, it just doesn't make any sense to me. For a pair of studded tires that lasts 3-4 years, it costs $100. I can't even understand how this is to much money for something that keeps you from falling over on your bike. I have a low tolerance for broken bones, there's all kinds of places to try to save money - doing it on studded tires seems like the absolute last one. And one broken bone in your entire lifetime will cost you more than studded tires for your entire lifetime.

I just don't get how it could possibly make sense to anyone, at all. But anyways.

I've heard that do-it-yourself tires are great for offroad but not good for regular road riding because:
1. The rolling resistance is immense
2. The regular steel in a screw wears down much, much quicker than carbide studs

I'm surprised to hear Sixty Fiver (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=101819)http://www.bikeforums.net/images/yellow_jersey.gif (http://www.bikeforums.net/payments.php) say his homemade studded tires have lasted thousands of miles. You have to ask yourself "Am I riding in the same conditions he is?". His location is listed as "Western Canuckistan". He may ride almost entirely on snow covered surfaces, or if I remember what he wrote right, not ride his studs when the roads are clear(er), which would dramatically increase the life of his studded tires over regular cleared road use, like in Chicago.

Also, I'd ask myself how much I'm saving. I know you said you already have a pair of knobbies - were you going to throw them out anyways? I figure if the knobbies cost $20 a tire, and screws cost $5 a tire, and they last even half as long, you've broken even at best (not including time you've spend on all this stuff).

65'r, are your studs only on the sides?

65'r, are your studs only on the sides?

Yep.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/winterwheel3.JPG

Built and road tested this one yesterday and the studs just graze the pavement with the tire running at 50 psi and won't do that after I grind down the points.

This is why I can get such good life out of a self studded urban tyre... I only need them to engage when I am turning (off camber) and by reducing the tyre pressure I can get the studs to engage when the wheel is straight.

P.S. - The NOS tyre was free, the studs cost $4.50, and it took 45 minutes to build it up.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/winterwheel3.JPG

P.S. - The NOS tyre was free, the studs cost $4.50, and it took 45 minutes to build it up.

Well sure, it sounds cheap if you're leaving out the cost of all that Dr. Pepper...

65er, you did a nice job on that tire. It has a neat and consistent look to it.

What is it like when you turn on that tire on bare pavement? Those screws stick out quite a bit. Do they affect the handling on turns?

Do you put anything on the inside of the tire to protect the tube?

My first diy studded tire looks a lot like sixty fivers' and it is still going strong after three winters. The only hiccup I had was my freddy fenders would sometimes flex on rough patches. The studs ended up cutting right through the little nut that fixes the stay:(

My new front tire has the studs more toward the center. Sorry, no pictures.

Well sure, it sounds cheap if you're leaving out the cost of all that Dr. Pepper...

:lol:

There is a FAQ in the winter cycling forum written by this Canuck on how to make your own studded tyres... you need to use a tire liner.

I have Nokia M&G's and they let me ride all winter when otherwise I couldn't. That there makes them worth it.
When these wear out I'm thinking of getting some Extremes. Does anyone know if the Extremes have much more rolling resistance? I have to be pretty careful on the M&G's or perhaps I'm running them at too high a pressure.

I don't know how some people are getting 4 or 5 seasons out of their nokian tires. I have been running nokian extremes 294's for two winters and one of the tires is garbage, the sidewall casing has failed. Lot's of tears and rips along the side. Maybe I just ride too much. I plan on getting some nokian W106 but the problem is that none of my local LBS's will have them until mid december. So this is what I did. with winter approaching I don't want to take any chances. I took one of my used nokians the good one and put it on the rear and then I made a studded tire for the front. Sorry I have no pics. I used a downhill tire 2.3 and put about 150 screws into it and lined it with a slick tire of a smaller size, so far it looks good and I can't wait to try it out. I still plan on getting some new nokians W106's when they become available. The reason I made my own studded tire is , that I just want to be ready, just in case there is ice and snow before I can get my new set of tires.

The mileage you get is dependent on so many factors... temperature, terrain, rider weight, and mileage.

For some a winter riding season (where studs are needed) might be 2000 km and for others it might be 6000 km or more.

I have Nokia M&G's and they let me ride all winter when otherwise I couldn't. That there makes them worth it.
When these wear out I'm thinking of getting some Extremes. Does anyone know if the Extremes have much more rolling resistance? I have to be pretty careful on the M&G's or perhaps I'm running them at too high a pressure.

I haven't even used the Extremes, or the Mount and Grounds (I run Schwalbe Marathon Winter's). But when people talk about substantially increased rolling resistance with their winter tires and I ask what they're running, or if they mention it themselves, it's often the Nokian Extremes.

It's been my impression that the Extremes have substantial rolling resistance, from reading the forums, but take it with a grain of salt and I don't actually own a pair.

I don't know how some people are getting 4 or 5 seasons out of their nokian tires. I have been running nokian extremes 294's for two winters and one of the tires is garbage, the sidewall casing has failed. Lot's of tears and rips along the side. Maybe I just ride too much. I plan on getting some nokian W106 but the problem is that none of my local LBS's will have them until mid december. So this is what I did. with winter approaching I don't want to take any chances. I took one of my used nokians the good one and put it on the rear and then I made a studded tire for the front. Sorry I have no pics. I used a downhill tire 2.3 and put about 150 screws into it and lined it with a slick tire of a smaller size, so far it looks good and I can't wait to try it out. I still plan on getting some new nokians W106's when they become available. The reason I made my own studded tire is , that I just want to be ready, just in case there is ice and snow before I can get my new set of tires.

I absolutely cannot speak to that, I have no personal experience with them other than having bought them, didn't even mount them, and took them back to the store (it's a longer story that's not very interesting).

When I took them back, though, I mentioned something about weight and the guy working at the store pointed out that the Extreme's didn't actually weigh any more than the 106's (or was it the mount and ground's in the same size? I can't recall...). He even had a scale. The Nokian Extreme's are, apparently, sorta designed to be an offroad winter racing tire - relatively lightweight, designed more for being light-weight than they are for endurance.

The w106's will cost half as much, and they definitely roll faster, but they have a reputation for not being nearly as grippy in more than a few inches of snow. If you're looking for a longer lasting, super tractiony tire, you might try the Schwalbe Ice Spiker HS333. Now, keep in mind that I'm completely guessing here. But Schwalbe makes 2 heavy duty studded tires:
http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/off-road_tires/spikes

Their "pro" tire (which I believe is also foldable) only gets a 3/5 for puncture resistance, the HS is another 200 grams or something but gets 5/5. Hmm, I guess their rating isn't much better. Well...that's what I've been thinking about lately, lol. :-)