Folding Bikes - Ugh

This (http://www.combingmyhair.com/?p=337) doesn't look good. To make matters worse, BF repaired the frame but didn't replace the disk rotor or rim. The author guessed (wrong) that BF didn't replace them because they weren't part of the warranty. BF didn't replace them because they didn't notice the wheel damage.

Not sure how that could possibly be, but I must report that I had a similar situation. It seems that BF's customer care people are extraordinary; but they have to cover for their service staff, who seem to make a fair number of mistakes.

BF is pretty lucky the author is not from here. I would imagine the case would've gone straight to the court.

Hard to imagine how the wheel wasn't checked for trueness after the parts were transferred to the new frame. If true, its sub Xmart grade performance.

Hard to imagine how the wheel wasn't checked for trueness after the parts were transferred to the new frame. If true, its sub Xmart grade performance.

Indeed! And absolutely true. It was my bike, and I couldn't believe it. However in fairness to Bike Friday they have now agreed to pay for my local shop to put it right.

Always wear your track mitts folks and safe cycling.

This (http://www.combingmyhair.com/?p=337) doesn't look good. To make matters worse, BF repaired the frame but didn't replace the disk rotor or rim. The author guessed (wrong) that BF didn't replace them because they weren't part of the warranty. BF didn't replace them because they didn't notice the wheel damage.

Not sure how that could possibly be, but I must report that I had a similar situation. It seems that BF's customer care people are extraordinary; but they have to cover for their service staff, who seem to make a fair number of mistakes.

From the source material:

"....The bike which was intended as a no fuss, low maintenance all weathers ride has already been to Tony’s twice (having been badly set up when it first arrived, and then to have this summer’s seatpost safety upgrade fitted) and I am getting fed up of spending money to sort out Bike Friday’s failings. It wouldn’t be quite so galling if they didn’t make such a play about their great customer service.

That’s it. I started as a fan of the Tikit and with good things to say about Bike Friday. Now I wonder why I didn’t just buy a Dahon....."

The tikit is a new model, barely out of the beta testing stage (IMO, it takes a good several years for a sure test of reliability for any mechanical device, not just bicycles). There were and probably are, still more problems to solve. When I was in the market last for another folder, I had a choice for a Dahon Piccolo (about to be discontinued) or the new at the time Curve (about to arrive). I chose the Piccolo. I rather have an "old fashioned" bike already in production and pretested by others than the latest, greatest, mostly untested one. I wish these bike companies don't use us as paying guinea pigs for their costly mistakes. I do not care what type of "Customer Service" they claim to have.

I don't want to pick on the Tikit, but it seems just about every review I've read has a lot of praise for the bike while also mentioning various mechanical issues/breakdowns. One fellow even wrote here that he had no issues but a flat tire in 2 years, and sure enough a week later, I see on his blog he has to send the bike back to repair a crack!

BikeFriday's service and responsibility is recognized as being very commendable, but I have to ask if one should just expect more mechanical issues. Perhaps this is something to do w/ folding bikes and issues how it works? Perhaps the people that write reviews ride their bikes hard and it may be unfair to expect folding bikes to stand up to that use?

When I was in the market last for another folder, I had a choice for a Dahon Piccolo (about to be discontinued) or the new at the time Curve (about to arrive). I chose the Piccolo. I rather have an "old fashioned" bike already in production and pretested by others than the latest, greatest, mostly untested one. I wish these bike companies don't use us as paying guinea pigs for their costly mistakes. I do not care what type of "Customer Service" they claim to have.

so what kind of 'issues' do you think the Curve has (just curious 'cause I just purchased two of them)?

so what kind of 'issues' do you think the Curve has (just curious 'cause I just purchased two of them)?

Probably nothing, maybe everything. Just like the tikit experience shows above, I am always a bit cautious about buying a new model from even a respected bike makers like Dahon or Bike Friday. I don't have much use or time for recreational riding. I use my folding bikes as strictly transportation 24/7 like I would a car. It is not how much I spend for a bike so much as how dependable it is. I don't want to be caught out and about with a bike that has problems or issues in the middle of the night with no public transit running. The Piccolo was in production for 5 years that I know of before it was stopped in favor of the Curve. With the reviews below plus other ones as well, I knew that the problems inherent in all new models already been ironed out of the Piccolo. So the choice was made for the last Piccolo (I purchased mine on November, 2006) made that was new instead of the then unknown to me Curve (started to be offered in early 2007).

You should be fine with your new Curves as most problems should have cropped up by now. I hope you enjoy them!

http://www.roadbikereview.com/mfr/dahon/2003-folding-bike/PRD_139320_4344crx.aspx#reviews

http://www.amazon.com/review/RXISX8KUEFF7P

One was even bought new in 2008!-Probably Sitting Around The Dealer's Floor
http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5297

You should be fine with your new Curves as most problems should have cropped up by now. I hope you enjoy them!

actually I bought 2008 models...I couldn't justify the higher price of the '09's for a three speed ($539 was about the lowest price I could fine on the '09s)

I see after the fact that this person (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=593045) is having trouble with theirs. The web site I bought from (BicycleSource.US (http://bicyclesource.us/product/08-dahon-curve-d3-43168-1.htm)) said the bike I was buying had a Sturmey hub, but we shall see I guess...looking closer at the pic on the BicycleSource web site it looks like a SRAM hub on the bike pictured. Ah, the joys of internet shopping

I think it's important to point out that most people are happy with their bikes and never have any problems whatsoever. That goes for Bike Friday, Dahon, Brompton, etc (ad nauseum).

Seriously, people are quick to jump to conclusions based on a very small self reported sample size. I'm not saying we shouldn't hold a company's customer service and quality control "feet" to the fire when something happens... but it's not like there aren't a lot of bikes that perform just fine.

Randy, I wouldn't be concerned about the Dahon Curves you just bought. They've received good reviews... and unless you plan on going mountain biking with them, you should be just fine. (because nobody should go mountain biking on a folder unless it was specifically designed for it).

--sam

maybe not mountain biking, but I test all my bikes, especially the small ones, on zoobomb

;)

yeah... but that's all on streets. You should be fine. :P

The tikit is a new model, barely out of the beta testing stage (IMO, it takes a good several years for a sure test of reliability for any mechanical device, not just bicycles). There were and probably are, still more problems to solve. When I was in the market last for another folder, I had a choice for a Dahon Piccolo (about to be discontinued) or the new at the time Curve (about to arrive). I chose the Piccolo. I rather have an "old fashioned" bike already in production and pretested by others than the latest, greatest, mostly untested one. I wish these bike companies don't use us as paying guinea pigs for their costly mistakes. I do not care what type of "Customer Service" they claim to have.

Looks like it will turn out well. I wouldn't overlook the customer service aspect with custom bikes. Or with standard bikes either.

I think that this was one of the first tikit models with a disc brake. Bike Friday has the additional complication that with so many different variations out there, more "surprises" can happen later.

Seriously, people are quick to jump to conclusions based on a very small self reported sample size.

This is very true. The statistics are always heavily skewed towards complaints for two reasons. First, people who have no problems have no reason to post a complaint. So you never hear from them. Second, a sizable number of complaint posts are from the, shall we say, anal retentive among us (myself included), who will post almost anything.

This is a fairly rare event. I'm not concerned about the frame failure, that's quite rare. I'm concerned about BF's service shop sloppiness -- that's somewhat common in my experience with BF. They need to work on that.

So where are the complaints of Brompton mechanical issues? I know you can find some on the net, but you don't hear much around here.

Is PDR going to tell us all "I told you so"? :)

So where are the complaints of Brompton mechanical issues? I know you can find some on the net, but you don't hear much around here.

Is PDR going to tell us all "I told you so"? :)

When I bought my own Brompton almost 4 years ago, I was waiting for something major to go wrong like it always did with my 2 Dahons. I am still waiting.

When I bought my own Brompton almost 4 years ago, I was waiting for something major to go wrong like it always did with my 2 Dahons. I am still waiting.

not a very flattering position for Dahon to be in, considering that many of their 2009 models are approaching the cost of a Brompton.

the boardwalk she is talking about was less than 200 dlr new. Show me a Brommy for that money and I will buy 20 or 30 right away.

Folder fanatic ... whats always wrong with your Dahons. If there is really always a problem with both of them, why dont you use the brommy instead. ?

thor

I think that one will find lots of happy people on the Dahon forum.

One will find more people talking about their Bromptons -- and their problems -- on BromptonTalk.

the boardwalk she is talking about was less than 200 dlr new. Show me a Brommy for that money and I will buy 20 or 30 right away.

I was referring to models like the '09 XL sport, over $1,000.00 now.

so what are the chances that the '08 Dahons (Curve D3 and MuXL Sport) I just ordered will have recalled handleposts on them?

:eek:

I was referring to models like the '09 XL sport, over $1,000.00 now.

so what are the chances that the '08 Dahons (Curve D3 and MuXL Sport) I just ordered will have recalled handleposts on them?

:eek:

nill
there is no Dahon dealer who will sell you one which not already has been fixed.
And if yuo bought them from whatever other source than any Dahon dealer will be eager to fix them for you for free.

:-)

thor

thanks, here's hoping! One is coming from BicycleSource.US and the other from safetycycle.

I don't think we are dealing with the average FOLDER rider on this forum.

The average FOLDER owner is likely an infrequent rider, and with little knowledge on how bikes work or what things are likely to break. Keeping the tires pumped-up is not usually a priority either, and they don't participate in this or other bicycle forums.

I think it's fair to say that the smaller the frame and wheels, and the rougher the treatment it endures, the more problems are likely to develop.

I am 6'3", 200 lbs, but due to advanced age :), 66, I am not into jumping curbs, going down stairs, etc.
We do ride our bikes a lot - as a substitute for using our car much of the time - but we have experienced minimal problems with either our original Dahon D7s, my Dahon S1, our Fridays.

I had a set-screw strip on the handle post of my S1 and headsets loosen, but that's been it.

The one problem we did have was with the wife's GIANT Simple 7 cruiser. The one we purchased couldn't be adjusted to shift correctly on a consistent basis (neither the dealer or I could get it to work) so we traded it for another one on the floor, which has worked well.

So where are the complaints of Brompton mechanical issues? I know you can find some on the net, but you don't hear much around here.

Is PDR going to tell us all "I told you so"? :)

yes. i am also waiting for PDR's dahon bashing here. and his endless praises for his made in england brompton...

not a very flattering position for Dahon to be in, considering that many of their 2009 models are approaching the cost of a Brompton.

I noticed Amazon has lowered the price of the 2009 Curve SL from $999 to $769. Although I would recommend buying a Dahon through a trusted LBS whenever possible, that to me sounds like a VERY good deal.

I noticed Amazon has lowered the price of the 2009 Curve SL from $999 to $769. Although I would recommend buying a Dahon through a trusted LBS whenever possible, that to me sounds like a VERY good deal.

That is not correct
its a 2008 Curve SL which is sold for 769.... I do it for the same money shipped. The 09 shipments are sold out and the current ( 010 ) will be 999
and yes its a good deal :-)

back to the thread .... I wish the dahon bashers would make a thread with the correct heading and than leave other threads alone ..I dont jump into a Downtube thread or Friday or Brompton thread either and praise the bikes I love
.....

thor

That is not correct
its a 2008 Curve SL which is sold for 769.... I do it for the same money shipped. The 09 shipments are sold out and the current ( 010 ) will be 999
and yes its a good deal :-)

thor

Seriously? It says and shows a 2009 Dahon Curve SL clear as day - "3 left in stock - order soon"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00277Z1Z8

Deceptive advertising or bait and switch?

Another reason to buy from your favorite LBS or trusted source e.g Thorusa

This is very true. The statistics are always heavily skewed towards complaints for two reasons. First, people who have no problems have no reason to post a complaint. So you never hear from them. Second, a sizable number of complaint posts are from the, shall we say, anal retentive among us (myself included), who will post almost anything.

This is a fairly rare event. I'm not concerned about the frame failure, that's quite rare. I'm concerned about BF's service shop sloppiness -- that's somewhat common in my experience with BF. They need to work on that.

+1 for Feijai's statistical analysis of heavily skewed toward complaints. If people don't have a problem, they don't have much to talk about or any great incentive to go online and discuss it so openly. As for Customer Service, let me be the one to talk about that. I always thought that "Customer Service" is intended to be a bouncing wall of mostly negative feedback. At least it was when I was employed at Sears. The executives were too busy running the show & the showroom help was busy with the merchandise. So the customers were channeled to us and we usually were able to handle most complaints by exchanging the merchandise or refunding money. 99% of the time, that was enough for the harried customer especially during and after the holidays.


not a very flattering position for Dahon to be in, considering that many of their 2009 models are approaching the cost of a Brompton.

I merely was pointing out the experience of a major problem cropping up after the purchase of each Dahon. The Boardwalk had a bad front hub on the front rim, and the Piccolo had a bad stem. Each of them (purchased 3 years apart & from 2 different dealers) were quickly attended to at the first tune-up about a month after purchase. I feel that this is strongly in Dahon's favor.


the boardwalk she is talking about was less than 200 dlr new. Show me a Brommy for that money and I will buy 20 or 30 right away.

Folder fanatic ... whats always wrong with your Dahons. If there is really always a problem with both of them, why dont you use the brommy instead. ?

thor

Actually the basic bike was about 200 dollars. I upgraded it at the time of purchase (3 speed hub & other parts) which doubled the price to 400 dollars since Dahon did not offer the 3 speed Boardwalk at that time in the US. I have both in storage for different reasons. The Piccolo needs it's annual tune up and I have to go 15 miles to do that. The Boardwalk is kept in the Living Room for now until my new kitten (see below for photo) is bigger-I am hoping for by the end of November. I am afraid the 30 pound bike will fall on him & crush him if I keep it in the same room with us! So this is not the Dahon bikes fault. I can't even ride the Brompton until he is more independent.


nill
there is no Dahon dealer who will sell you one which not already has been fixed.
And if yuo bought them from whatever other source than any Dahon dealer will be eager to fix them for you for free.

:-)

thor

Agreed. Both of my dealers were more than happy to address & fix the problem, including additional parts.


I don't think we are dealing with the average FOLDER rider on this forum.

The average FOLDER owner is likely an infrequent rider, and with little knowledge on how bikes work or what things are likely to break. Keeping the tires pumped-up is not usually a priority either, and they don't participate in this or other bicycle forums.

I think it's fair to say that the smaller the frame and wheels, and the rougher the treatment it endures, the more problems are likely to develop.

I am 6'3", 200 lbs, but due to advanced age :), 66, I am not into jumping curbs, going down stairs, etc.
We do ride our bikes a lot - as a substitute for using our car much of the time - but we have experienced minimal problems with either our original Dahon D7s, my Dahon S1, our Fridays.

I had a set-screw strip on the handle post of my S1 and headsets loosen, but that's been it.

The one problem we did have was with the wife's GIANT Simple 7 cruiser. The one we purchased couldn't be adjusted to shift correctly on a consistent basis (neither the dealer or I could get it to work) so we traded it for another one on the floor, which has worked well.

Perhaps this could be explained by the "spot check" method used by many people in the clothing construction field. When you use many yards or meters of fabric, you don't have the time to roll out all the fabric go inch (cm) by inch (cm) and look for imperfections. You will do a quick look over a sample or part of the roll or bolt and hope for the best and cut around something if a imperfect part shows up. Perhaps that what occurs too in the mass produced devices market. You gamble for a individual unit not damaged in some minor or major way.


yes. i am also waiting for PDR's dahon bashing here. and his endless praises for his made in england brompton...

No, no this not a bike bashing forum, but an educational forum. Let us try to remember that.

Seriously? It says and shows a 2009 Dahon Curve SL clear as day - "3 left in stock - order soon"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00277Z1Z8

Deceptive advertising or bait and switch?

Another reason to buy from your favorite LBS or trusted source e.g Thorusa

well it clearly says 2009 so it mustr be a 09 and the pic is an 09 as well ....
sorry my mistake

... although Dahon is sold out since months on the 09 version and is waiting for the current model it might be that a dealer still has some of course ...( while 08 are indeed still available )
The price violates the Dahon dealer agreement however and is the same price which is for the 08 Curve SL . I would be very careful if you like to receive an 09 bike ..
Having said that there is nothing wrong with either one of them ( as long as the recal is fixed )

Thor

Each of them (purchased 3 years apart & from 2 different dealers) were quickly attended to at the first tune-up about a month after purchase. I feel that this is strongly in Dahon's favor.

I almost never take any newly purchased bike in for free or scheduled tune ups, even when purchased from a local LBS. I expect it to be completely functional as purchased or expect that I can deal with and resolve any minor tuneup or mechanical issues myself. Things like cable or shifter adjustment, etc., I perceive as non-issues. Defective parts or serious mechanical flaws are another story entirely, and I would be extremely displeased to find either in a new bike.

I almost never take any newly purchased bike in for free or scheduled tune ups, even when purchased from a local LBS. I expect it to be completely functional as purchased or expect that I can deal with and resolve any minor tuneup or mechanical issues myself. Things like cable or shifter adjustment, etc., I perceive as non-issues. Defective parts or serious mechanical flaws are another story entirely, and I would be extremely displeased to find either in a new bike.

In the old days of 30+ years ago, it was my experience that major problems of anything (this includes bikes but also many other mechanical devices too) was generally nonexistent, period. I never had a major problem with 99% of the devices and if I did, I would exchange it-not repair it-within the allowed warranty time period. I guess that there was more emphasis in quality control like actually inspecting the device before packaging & shipment from the factory. Now I am not so sure. Much of these issues seem to spring from a complete lack or limited superficial inspection of these devices. When I was actually working with apparel, I was shock with how these expensive ($100 US dollar and up) were hastily cut, stitched, tossed around, and thrown into boxes with absolutely no quality check beyond counting the merchandise. When they arrived at the store, did you know the process was completed by jamming a thumbtack through a seam to mask the hole better and a plastic detection tag was snapped over the hole? This insured that the company was protected from shoplifters and employee theft, but the customer pays dearly by buying a already damaged garment. So why not with any other mass produced device?

So Randya, don't be upset about something that is seems to be built into this system no customer or dealer can control. I find that even a simple prayer seems to work when facing the new way of buying things. It calms my nerves. Most of the time, I can deal with major problems as they crop up. Most of the time, the item is fine with no problems at all-the computer I am typing this right now is a good example. It now seems to be a game of "Russian Roulette."

So where are the complaints of Brompton mechanical issues? I know you can find some on the net, but you don't hear much around here.

Is PDR going to tell us all "I told you so"? :)

Ok, I can only say as I find.....

One of the advantages of a forum like this is that owners can give real feedback of their ownership experiences of different brands good or bad. This may or may not help prospective purchasers form an opinion as to what a certain model is really like rather than relying on the marketing material proclaiming a certain bike to be the best thing since sliced bread.:)

My ownership of 3 Dahons has NOT been a positive one but I will leave it at that.

The question has been raised as to any problems I’ve had with my Brompton.

There was one:

I ordered my B-Spoke Brompton with Schwalbe Stelvio tyres. They looked OK when the bike arrived but when I inflated them to 100 psi they developed nasty, uneven bulges. I believe there was a bad batch of these tyres made around this time. I don’t consider Brompton to be at fault and I ought to send the tyres back to Schwalbe UK. I then switched to Schwalbe Kojaks which I prefer.:thumb:

I have now owned my Brompton 7 months and it has worked perfectly, no issues at all. It has been serviced once by the dealer (1st free service). Unlike the first cheap folder I bought and the Dahons (I thought I was upgrading to a better bike:rolleyes:) the Brompton is showing no signs of wear nor has picked up a single scratch.:)

The only other “problem” is that since crashing a motorbike on 20 September and busting my collar bone I can’t ride my lovely Brompton...:( or even test ride the B-Spoke Brompton my sister picked up from the store last night and will be taking back to Germany with her this weekend.... (she has a pink Dahon D3 but wanted to upgrade). Would have liked to take the 3 Bromptons out for a family ride this Saturday and get some photos but it is not going to happen.:(

I'd be willing to bet something like this went down at BF:

Customer relays complaint, BF says send the bike back. They read customer description, assign job tag to it that says "fix the fork." New fork manufactured, shop faces crown race shoulder and installs crown race, fork into bike. Just like the work ticket instructed. Then everything was buttoned back up and sent to the customer.

BF shop policy might insist on test ride. But maybe it was raining that day, or whatever, so no test ride by the technician who reassembled the bike.

Still, I've never put a bike together and not given the wheels a spin while it's in the stand; can't figure out a sensible excuse why this would not have been done. Owner--was the bike shipped with the front wheel installed or not? If it was shipped with front wheel off the bike, then that simple fact, combined with no mention of wheel damage by owner, no test ride by BF staff, could easily account for it. Wheel installed prior to shipping? I run out of excuse.

But really, any other company would look at something like that, with the usual excuse (JRA: Just Riding Along...), and it could go any which way. They could turn down the warranty claim as user abuse. They could replace the fork under warranty, but leave the customer or shop left holding the bag for dis- and re-assembly. I bet in BFs fine print, it says something about warranty only applying to the frame, not parts or limited warranty on parts, so the fact that they are willing to deal with the wheel/brake issues, even though it is obvious that it was the fork failure that caused the damage, is another plus on them.

While an issue like this might seem part of beta-testing unfairly foisted onto the public, the economic realities of a small business like BF might dictate that this is the way it has to be. Otherwise, it might not have been at all economical to do the R&D which might avoid something like this. Would the world be a better place without the Tikit due to economics?

As it relates to BF, I see nothing in this story so much as a small company going way out on a limb with a new, chancey product line, and dealing with a specific customer complaint in a manner over and above what other bike companies offer. If you're really in a huff over the way this customer was treated, godz help you and customer service type people you run across out there in the real world...

After reading more on his blog, it sounds as though, he may be using his bike more rigorously than most. Apparently, previously using V-Brakes, he went through a rim which was why he changed to disc brakes. It also looks like he had only canceled one commute due to heavy snow so the bike's seeing a lot of extreme conditions. This doesn't put the blame on him or excuse how BF managed the repair initially, but it's more reassuring to see that this isn't a bike failing under "normal" conditions.