Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - New bike lock

Hello,

I am a student at Boston University. This semester I am developing a new type of bike lock. As part of my project I am trying to get feedback from people who bike in the city.

Here is the link to a completely confidential, anonymous survey: http://team4core.questionpro.com/

I would really appreciate it if you could take 5 minutes to give me some feedback.

Thank you!

I'm skeptical, but interested. The actual locking mechanism better be really strong.

very cool, man. That product looks like something I would be interested in AS LONG AS it is actually secure. I think your survey will indicate that security is the #1 priority for lock buyers. You should have ex-bike thiefs (if you can find some) test it out. Make sure that it can't be cut through with a hacksaw and make sure that bolt cutters don't work on the locking mechanism.

Another reason why I would be interested in this is b/c bike thiefs don't know about it yet. So I feel like all of the bike thiefs realize how to defeat certain types of locks, and then tell other thiefs about it (car jack, bolt cutters, etc). If you have a new type of lock they have never seen, then they probably won't even try and mess with it. They will just go for conventional locks that they know how to defeat (U-lock, chain).

Try breaking it with a bottle jack, a cutting torch, a portable angle grinder, yard-long bolt cutters, and anything else you can think of. I remain sceptical of most locks, yard long bolt cutters can go through those big kryptonite locks in 30 seconds.

I'm skeptical, but interested. The actual locking mechanism better be really strong.

That's what I think too.

They ask you to rate it for security and convenience, but I have no data about either. How valid are opinions that have no factual basis?

It looks like a standard MBA start your own business class so...the opinions are completely valid from a marketing perspective since they will never actually make this lock so it won't get tested and people will be interested in things that "look" secure.

very cool, man. That product looks like something I would be interested in AS LONG AS it is actually secure. I think your survey will indicate that security is the #1 priority for lock buyers. You should have ex-bike thiefs (if you can find some) test it out. Make sure that it can't be cut through with a hacksaw and make sure that bolt cutters don't work on the locking mechanism.

Another reason why I would be interested in this is b/c bike thiefs don't know about it yet. So I feel like all of the bike thiefs realize how to defeat certain types of locks, and then tell other thiefs about it (car jack, bolt cutters, etc). If you have a new type of lock they have never seen, then they probably won't even try and mess with it. They will just go for conventional locks that they know how to defeat (U-lock, chain).

Excellent points! Also, as a college student, you have to deal with probably the worst theft environment there is. The only time I've had a bike stolen was when I was in college and I chained my bike to a metal fence, only to have the crook cut the fence.

I would recommend some minor wordsmithing:


How often do you lock your bike outside overnight?

Both this and the previous question threw me off. Do you mean how often do I lock my bike when I leave it outside overnight, or how often do I actually lock my bike and leave it outside overnight?


Our product is a bike lock made of a woven blend of Kevlar (used to make bullet proof vests) and braided steel.

This concerns me a bit. If I recall correctly, one of the major downsides of older (read: currently cheaper) kevlar was that it would stop bullets but not knives...

Also, if you're serious, and to be safe, I would at least get a free 1-year provisional patent.

I'm not a Materials Engineer, but I don't think that kevlar is actually that strong, compared to most things yes, but when infront of a bike theif, maybe not

Of course, I would love for you to prove me wrong because this looks like it might work with some research

i like the idea of being able to put a lock in my pocket. I, too, am skeptical about the strength of this, but if it is strong enough (and I think that it could be if you found the right blend of materials), this lock would sell like condoms in amsterdam.

I can't tell you how many times I leave my house and have to take a back pack just to put my u-lock in. It's frustrating b/c if I didn't have to put my u-lock in something, then I wouldn't need to bring my back pack.

I realize this is just for a college project, but making a lock like this would probably be a legitimately profitable business venture.

very interesting but i hope it is just an exercise because that lock has tremendous vulnerability. the specified materials are not cut proof and will be "chewed" apart if it deflects what you intended to cut it with, especially the most common thing which is bolt cutters.

but all you really need to defeat that lock is a 1-2 foot length of pipe. the amount of force that can be generated by inserting said pipe into loop, then twisting in one direction, is amazing and way more than enough to separate by tearing the flexible bits from the solid bits no matter how you intended them to join.

it would be a great low security lock, like a cable lock or really low end u-locks. i would recommend it to hipsters in a low crime area with little history of bike theft

i like the idea of being able to put a lock in my pocket. I, too, am skeptical about the strength of this, but if it is strong enough (and I think that it could be if you found the right blend of materials), this lock would sell like condoms in amsterdam.

I can't tell you how many times I leave my house and have to take a back pack just to put my u-lock in. It's frustrating b/c if I didn't have to put my u-lock in something, then I wouldn't need to bring my back pack.

I realize this is just for a college project, but making a lock like this would probably be a legitimately profitable business venture.

Hang it in your belt or buy a u-lock holster.


Honestly, with this lock reviews are what would determine if I buy it or not. If it was more secure than my NYC, I'd get it. If it wasn't, I wouldn't.

i think a dremel style rotary tool could cut through that pretty easily.

be cool if this works. I some how doubt it will though

i agree that it is difficult for us to rate the lock itself. one of the big problems that you are going to face in this project and (if it were to happen) the early development of this product is that you are using a material that is not well understood to the average person, steel belted kevlar.

i understand a u-lock because i understand a solid piece of steel. i understand a chain. i also understand a braided steel cable. these are all things that i have interacted with through my life and if you tell me "oh this lock is made out of X inch thick Y material" than i have a good idea how strong that is going to be. i am not familiar with kevlar's properties and it would take some good convincing to show me that this lock is going to hold up any better than a regular cable lock.

I would buy one in a heartbeat because it looks strong and very portable.

i think a dremel style rotary tool could cut through that pretty easily.

It will take a LOT of cutting discs.

http://www.midnightridazz.com/images/forums/small/ulco_1255891097.jpghttp://www.midnightridazz.com/viewImage.php?imageName=%2Fimages%2Fforums%2Flarge%2Fulco_1255891097.jpghttp://www.midnightridazz.com/viewImage.php?imageName=%2Fimages%2Fforums%2Flarge%2Fulco_1255891097.jpg

very interesting but i hope it is just an exercise because that lock has tremendous vulnerability. the specified materials are not cut proof and will be "chewed" apart if it deflects what you intended to cut it with, especially the most common thing which is bolt cutters.

but all you really need to defeat that lock is a 1-2 foot length of pipe. the amount of force that can be generated by inserting said pipe into loop, then twisting in one direction, is amazing and way more than enough to separate by tearing the flexible bits from the solid bits no matter how you intended them to join.

So you've had your hands on this lock and know it will be defeated by all that you have mentioned? Interesting.


This looks like a cool idea, I think it could be made secure with the right material as you could really tighten it up to the object and your bike so it may be hard to get a tool in between there. If I saw a video of how this lock holds up against some cutting tools and how it can hold against brute force, I would definitely buy one (price pending).

i feel like every 2 months there's somebody doing either real or mock market research on this message board

I don't care how strong a lock is, someone will get through it.

make me a lock with a pressurized mixture of paint and mace in the loop so whomever does break it can't see where he is going for 2 hours and looks like a smurf for a week.

First let me thank you all for your responses! It has been a huge help.

I have worked with a textile manufacturer to develop the actual strapping. The key to the design is the braided steel wiring that is woven inside the strapping. I have taken both a hacksaw and a traditional leatherman to it. Neither made any damage. I used all my force to try to puncture it with my leatherman but I could not get the tip of the blade through the strapping. I will take your suggestions and test it against bolt cutters.

Here is a rendering of the internal wire system:
http://www.f09b05t04.info/Strapping_wire.jpg

Again I truly appreciate everyone's input.

How does it stand up to an angle grinder, or what many "good" bike-thieves use? I've seen broken top of the line Krypto's and Onguard's because of this. Not sure how many people really try and break locks with hacksaws...

very cool looking I hope it meets expectations I'd like to buy something like that

here's the image, by the way.

http://www.f09b05t04.info/bb_noname.png

I bet I could take a hammer and smash and disable the locking mechanism with a few blows. If you lock can be defeated with any simple blunt object, then it is very insecure relative to other locks that require powertools or other "advanced" methods of compromise. Replace a hammer with a cinderblock or whatever else is heavy and easily found on the street and you'll see how often such a lock can be defeated.

try bolt cutters too.

Big challenge is going to be the locking mechanism

attachment points can be a big weakness with chain/cable locks. With a chain, you can design a padlock like the one bikeregistry sells that has no exposed shackle when a chain is in the jaws so this can be lessened. With a strap...it would be hard and the weakness will most likely be at the joint (you won't have chain links to lock through so there will have to be something making a loop or going through the strap).

Don't bother testing with a leatherman, test with bolt cutters, car jack, length of pipe (twisting), etc...manufacturers love to state how long it would take a hack saw to steal their lock because everyone knows it would take forever...bike thieves just use a different tool

any good quality shears can cut kevlar (and yes, i have experience working with composites), so i don't see this being much stronger than your average cable lock. it will probably be not very difficult to cut (like cable locks). not to mention the attachment points of belt to "buckle" and the aforementioned smash the locking mechanism technique.

Interesting idea. This lock looks like it would be very good for locking a frame to a post or bike rack, but not very good for securing the wheels as well. I would be concerned about the mesh belt's ability to fit between spokes and weave through the frame.

What I don't get is why you talk about being able to fit it in your pocket, when clearly the best option would be to be able to wear it as a normal belt.

Also it would be good if you could have the lock mechanism work at different lengths, so you can have the bike tight against the thing you are locking it to. I have a really long lock and sometimes people knock over the bike and when I come back I find it fallen over with the lock stretched tight.

I dont get this twisting pipe thing. I tried to search but did not find anything

How does it stand up to an angle grinder, or what many "good" bike-thieves use? I've seen broken top of the line Krypto's and Onguard's because of this. Not sure how many people really try and break locks with hacksaws...

Nothing will survive an angle grinder...

I dont get this twisting pipe thing. I tried to search but did not find anything

torque

torque

ya i get that you torque it. I guess it makes sense I guess I just under estimate the force you can achieve esp when using it with an u lock

From a mechanical engineer and biker, it definately looks like a handheld dremel would have no problem with that. What exactly is the buckling mechanism? Any further design pics of that? Keep us up to date on the material question.

So you weave together two things that are easily cut with basic bolt cutters and they magically become uncuttable...then have some kind of locking seatbelt clasp mechanism holding it together.

Testing with a leatherman means the designer has no understanding of how bike theft happens. Without that as a starting point the product is doomed to fail both structurally and from a sales standpoint.

Sorry, no dice.

is this what BU is up to?
a few CAD cartoons and some pokes with a leatherman do not justify a product.

I graduated from BU, College of Engineering, Class of 2007. My girlfriend at the time was an SMG student, and went through CORE as well, and I remember a lot of her project and what she had to go through.

Before people start tearing apart the idea or the construction, design, etc, let me first say: the rules of CORE make it such that your product has to basically be completely new and not resemble anything that's out there. Coming up with a unique, yet still workable/good idea is REALLY hard, especially for a bunch of partially-educated, sheltered, private-university business-majors. The result? Most of the CORE products are really lame, from an engineering/manufacturing perspective. I've always said it would be a cool idea if they combined CORE with the Engineering school's senior capstone design project. The engineering students would design and develop the product, and the business students would market it and come up with the business plan and a way to actually make money from it. This is a little closer to how it works in industry.

Good luck, OP. I took your survey and I hope it provides a tiny sliver of valuable data (I know you're supposed to get a TON of survey submissions). Focus on developing a killer business plan and you'll do well!

Since your quiz had no area for longer comments (tisk, tisk):

The locking mechanism on that illustration looked slightly better than a small cable with a 4-number combo lock. Also, unless you have a way to take up the slack, I'd be afraid someone would be more likely to try to steal the bike and damage it in the process. So, it would fit purely in the 'yuppie at a Starbucks' type lock for me.

Your quiz's attributes felt a bit misleading. 'Security' and 'Durability' are pretty much the same thing, as in 'how secure could it be if it's not durable'.

Also, 'Appearance' could be many things, ranging from 'appears stylish, modern and sleek' to 'appears brutish, strong and intimidating', so you'll get the same answer of '5' for two completely different styles of lock.

I think this product would be quite successful in the market of people that buy their bicycle locks and products at k-mart, but I am not sure what advantage this has over a simple cable lock.

one plus of this particular design is that it is quite unique. So, potential theives, rather than wasting their time experimenting with what is a very uncommon lock, when they could be using their bolt cutter or angle grinder on some garden variety lock on some other bozo's bike.

II am not sure what advantage this has over a simple cable lock.

To be fair it looks like it'll take SECONDS longer to defeat than a simple cable lock.


one plus of this particular design is that it is quite unique. So, potential theives, rather than wasting their time experimenting with what is a very uncommon lock, when they could be using their bolt cutter or angle grinder on some garden variety lock on some other bozo's bike.

That could work the other way as well. If it looks more flimsy than other locks it might get attacked more often.

I can't tell you how many times I leave my house and have to take a back pack just to put my u-lock in. It's frustrating b/c if I didn't have to put my u-lock in something, then I wouldn't need to bring my back pack.

Holster brah.
http://fabrichorse.com/index.php?page=lockholsters

...or just tuck it into your belt.

What I don't get is why you talk about being able to fit it in your pocket, when clearly the best option would be to be able to wear it as a normal belt.


haha - so you can choose whether you feel like keeping your bike or keeping your pants up and your dignity intact :)

I don't see why it much matters that this lock may not stand up to a battery of saws, grinders, and nuclear devices. Based on the vulnerability described in many of these responses, no mass produced lock would cut the mustard. There's value in ingenuity even if the lock doesn't provide better outright security than everything else out there. Locks are always a compromise of some sort, and depending on the situation, this kind of lock might suit someone's needs.

I'm not really understanding the actual locking mechanism (maybe it's described and I missed it?). If you actually wanted to sell a boat-load of these, I'd just change the buckle into stainless rings and let people choose their own lock. Essentially just a glorified cable in that case, but why not?

maybe because it also wont stand up to 1' bolt cutters or a 1 1/2 foot length of anything rigid, like a piece of pipe?

it is poorly designed for security but it would be great for people in low-no bike crime areas where the only reason to lock is the occasional opportunist theft. in cities, nah you would not want this lock if you want to leave your bike outside LOS

vids of the actual hacksaw cutting plz? Or u probably won't persuade most of us as is..

and +1 to being skeptical about how strong the lock mechanism really is. If all works well and it truly is indestructible, i would be totally down for one.

There's value in ingenuity even if the lock doesn't provide better outright security than everything else out there. Locks are always a compromise of some sort, and depending on the situation, this kind of lock might suit someone's needs.

True, it doesn't need to be better, but it has to be as-good-as other locks in the same price range. Even with the few details we know about it, it looks like it will be more expensive and less secure than existing locks.