Touring - Help Choosing between Co-Motion and Seven Cycles for Round The World Trip

Greetings from Minneapolis,

I'm currently researching the purchase of touring bikes. I am planing to buy the bike sometime in 2010. I have already found a lot of good information out just by reading existing threads! I also apologize in advance for the length of my message, I have several considerations to weigh that I have found through my research to date and would like to hear some opinions.

In 2012, I plan to start an around the world trip by bike. (Hopefully no one laughs at me too much for taking 2 years to plan a trip :) ) I have a general idea about where I want to bike. My general route would cover Australia, SE Asia, China, Nepal, India, the Middle East (Jordan, Syria, and Turkey), as well Eastern and Western Europe. From Western Europe, I would fly back to the US and cycle across the US to end the trip.

The reason I want to purchase the bike in 2010 is because I'd like to get very familiar with the bike and also ride it on some shorter tours before 2012.

My research has led me to choose between Co-Motion and Seven Cycles. Even though there are other bikes that are just as capable as these two brands, I want the highest quality frames and components for the trip. I want to lessen the risk of major problems when I am in the middle of nowhere. Truth be told, I'd also consider a Thorn Sherpa, but since there's no bike shops in the US (that I can tell) that sells them, I'm sticking with brands that shops near me carry.

Initial Considerations:
1. Must have drop bars and not flat handle bars. My current commuter / trail bike - a trek 7.5fx has flat handle bars. I find myself wanting more positions for hands on longer rides.
2. If I get a bike with 700c tires, I will have to carry a spare wheel.
3. 36 spokes on the wheel is a must
4. Open to Rohloff hubs but not a must. If I go with Rohloffs, I will carry at least 2 of the oil maintenance kits. Really leaning against Rohloffs for this trip due to length of the trip
5. I will probably be pulling a trailer for at least part of the trip - due to needing an adequate water supply.
6. Schwalbe for the tires.
7. I want to be able to enjoy riding the bike when it is not loaded up with gear as well. ( I do plan on returning to a "normal" life after the trip )

Current Bikes I am considering:
Co-Motion Pangea
Co-Motion Americano
Seven Cycles custom touring model.

Thoughts on the Pangea:
The Pangea has the 26" wheels that are more common throughout the world. The Pangea can also fit 3 water bottles. The Rohloff seems interesting but not entirely necessary. I know there are threads that express support for and against the Rohloff system. It also seems that the Pangea is pretty close in terms of the Thorn Sherpa World Tour drop bar spec.

Thoughts on the Americano:
This seems to be Co-Motion's flagship touring bike. It borrows from their tandem bike expertise for the 145mm rear axle. It does take 700c wheel though, so carrying an extra wheel is probably a good idea. Like the Pangea, the americano can hold 3 water bottles. So it looks like the main difference is the wheels and size of the rear axles.

Thoughts on Seven Custom Bike:
This would give me the choice of titanium or steel frame. (Ha, I bet this would be another debate :) ). Thing is, I could just order the Co-Motion frame and choose my components just like the Seven. Seven does spend a lot time truly custom fitting the bike. I've already talked to the Seven dealer where I live as I wanted to find out more about the process. Titanium would be lighter than steel, but does cost more. Interestingly enough there is one touring model offered by Seven that does accept 26" or 700c tires called the Cafe Racer S. I'm wondering if that specific model would be suitable for loaded touring. One of the disadvantages of Seven is that the Cafe Racer S is the only bike that they classify as "touring" and as capable of taking 26" wheels. So if it wasn't able to handle loaded touring, I'd have to go with a frame that takes 700c wheels.

Solutions:
1. If the Cafe Racer S is deemed acceptable to handle loaded touring, i think that might be a good way to go. Otherwise Seven has no bike that is suitable for touring with 26" wheels.
2. The Co-Motion Pangea is an interesting alternative and would be a great way to bring down costs compared to the Seven bikes.
3. Go with a bike that does not have 26" wheels and carry a spare wheel on the trip.

Any additional thoughts/comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance..
Tim

If I were consider a round-the-world trip, I'd get a steel-framed bike with 26-inch wheels. The 2 options I'd look at would be:

Co-Motion Pangea
Rodriguez W2 touring bike (in 26" inches) www.rodcycle.com (http://www.rodcycle.com)

Billenky also makes a steel bike with 26-inch wheels.

You can have any of those built to custom sizing if for some reason you don't feel you'd fit a stock size. Obviously you've got plenty of time to get to know the bike pretty well before your trip, and swap out anything you're not happy with.

Any minute now someone else will come along and tell you to look at a Surly Long-Haul Trucker...

It sounds like you are set on only 2 companies but I'd check out the Independent Fabrication Independence. It's their touring frame available in steel or ti and they will build the frame to your specific needs for your trip. I mention this company because I had a frame made for me and they were a pleasure to deal with both on the phone and through e-mails. I have fully confident they can build you a frame that will surpass your needs!! Good luck on your trip.

I would add Bruce Gordon's Rock N Road Tour EX models to your short list that meet your 26 inch wheel and drop bar requirement . I have been riding a Ti BG RNR with 700c wheels since 1989 on and off pavement in N & S America including the Divide Ride. The only limit has been in the rider's skills not the bikes ability. My bike takes a maximum 700x47 tire with full fenders on 36 hole rims. I have never had a wheel problem in all these years.

Cyclists have been touring around the world for 100 years on 27 inch,700C, 650B and now 26 inch wheels and managing quite well. I still do not understand these attempts to make touring foolproof by choosing the current miracle wheel or tire size. I have tried them all in my touring life and each performed well but none provided any miracles.

Trying to control all of the variables of touring and equipment reduces the serendipity to an after thought instead of the main direct experience of traveling among new cultures in new places. Attitude is more important than equipment in my experience

Greetings from Minneapolis,
My research has led me to choose between Co-Motion and Seven Cycles. Even though there are other bikes that are just as capable as these two brands, I want the highest quality frames and components for the trip. I want to lessen the risk of major problems when I am in the middle of nowhere. Truth be told, I'd also consider a Thorn Sherpa, but since there's no bike shops in the US (that I can tell) that sells them, I'm sticking with brands that shops near me carry.

Initial Considerations:
1. Must have drop bars and not flat handle bars. My current commuter / trail bike - a trek 7.5fx has flat handle bars. I find myself wanting more positions for hands on longer rides.

Other bars also give you multiple hand positions. But "flat" bars work best for Rohloff. There are work arounds for the latter, but I think (YMMV) they are awkward to use.

2. If I get a bike with 700c tires, I will have to carry a spare wheel.

No, you might need to bring a spare rim, tires, and tubes. There reason for this is that the 700c you do find in the hinterlands will be oriented towards 23mm racing tires and the 26" will be oriented towards MTB tires, the latter obviously more appropriate for touring. IMHO, you should have your own supply of tires and tubes anyway.

3. 36 spokes on the wheel is a must

Depends on your loaded weight, but 36 hole rims are much more available than 40 or 48 hole rims.

4. Open to Rohloff hubs but not a must. If I go with Rohloffs, I will carry at least 2 of the oil maintenance kits. Really leaning against Rohloffs for this trip due to length of the trip

Along with the twist shifter mounting problem alluded to above, there is the usual reason (besides expense) why Rohloffs have had slow adoption rates: derailler systems work just fine. Put aside the money you'll save to use in the event that you'll have to replace your stolen bike.

5. I will probably be pulling a trailer for at least part of the trip - due to needing an adequate water supply.

A trailer actually increases the variety of bikes that can be used.

6. Schwalbe for the tires.

Yes, but you'll be stuck with whatever tires you can get.

7. I want to be able to enjoy riding the bike when it is not loaded up with gear as well. ( I do plan on returning to a "normal" life after the trip )

I don't think there are any bikes that you won't enjoy riding after you get back, but if you want to road race or ride technical trails, you won't have the best bike for those respective purposes.

Current Bikes I am considering:
Co-Motion Pangea
Co-Motion Americano
Seven Cycles custom touring model.

Thoughts on the Pangea:
The Pangea has the 26" wheels that are more common throughout the world. The Pangea can also fit 3 water bottles. The Rohloff seems interesting but not entirely necessary. I know there are threads that express support for and against the Rohloff system. It also seems that the Pangea is pretty close in terms of the Thorn Sherpa World Tour drop bar spec.

Rohloff doesn't work with drop bars absent an awkward work around.

Thoughts on the Americano:
This seems to be Co-Motion's flagship touring bike. It borrows from their tandem bike expertise for the 145mm rear axle. It does take 700c wheel though, so carrying an extra wheel is probably a good idea. Like the Pangea, the americano can hold 3 water bottles. So it looks like the main difference is the wheels and size of the rear axles.

I have an Americano. If I were to do it again I might go with something with MTB rather than tandem dropout spacing so I can interchange wheels with a MTB. Also, tandem weight tubing is overkill for when one is reasonably loaded. The IF Independence was mentioned in a post above.

Thoughts on Seven Custom Bike:
This would give me the choice of titanium or steel frame. (Ha, I bet this would be another debate :) ). Thing is, I could just order the Co-Motion frame and choose my components just like the Seven. Seven does spend a lot time truly custom fitting the bike. I've already talked to the Seven dealer where I live as I wanted to find out more about the process. Titanium would be lighter than steel, but does cost more. Interestingly enough there is one touring model offered by Seven that does accept 26" or 700c tires called the Cafe Racer S. I'm wondering if that specific model would be suitable for loaded touring. One of the disadvantages of Seven is that the Cafe Racer S is the only bike that they classify as "touring" and as capable of taking 26" wheels. So if it wasn't able to handle loaded touring, I'd have to go with a frame that takes 700c wheels.

The lower weight of Ti would not be noticed on a loaded touring bike and if you were to break the frame, you can absolutely forget about getting it repaired. Again take the money you'll save on a chro-mo frame and add it to your stolen bike contingency fund. BTW, if you have a high quality thin walled cro-mo frame, chances of an adequate repair in the third world are also slim to none.

Solutions:
1. If the Cafe Racer S is deemed acceptable to handle loaded touring, i think that might be a good way to go. Otherwise Seven has no bike that is suitable for touring with 26" wheels.
2. The Co-Motion Pangea is an interesting alternative and would be a great way to bring down costs compared to the Seven bikes.
3. Go with a bike that does not have 26" wheels and carry a spare wheel on the trip.

Any additional thoughts/comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance..
Tim

For the epic journey you suggest, I would take a bike that I wouldn't so much mind abandoning if I needed to bail somewhere. Transporting a bike when sick, injured, or tired of traveling is a PITA and expensive - if it can be done at all. I know I'd regret leaving a $6-8,000 titanium frame Rohloff-equipped bike in some village somewhere.

If you're serious, I would consider the LHT frame (or equivalents) equipped with XT components (or equivalent) and lavish money on wheels instead.

comparing comotion and seven, comotion is way way more about loaded and world touring.

heck go 145 mm rear hub and dishless on the Americano (mmm, Americano co-pilot)..... but that limits replacement wheels.

having seen some seven 'commuter' and 'touring' bikes, cannot recommend their style of quick custom bike manufacture to a bicyclist looking for a well thought out touring frameset.

comparing comotion and seven, comotion is way way more about loaded and world touring.

heck go 145 mm rear hub and dishless on the Americano (mmm, Americano co-pilot)..... but that limits replacement wheels.

having seen some seven 'commuter' and 'touring' bikes, cannot recommend their style of quick custom bike manufacture to a bicyclist looking for a well thought out touring frameset.

I agree with this sentiment about seven. Nice bikes, but not for this purpose.

someone mentioned Bilenky, I would look into that builder.

Bruce gordon also comes to mind.

I agree with this sentiment about seven. Nice bikes, but not for this purpose.

Seven used to have a touring bike in their lineup called the Vacanza (?), but it seems to have disappeared from their website. Now they show a bike called the Halcyon that seems to be about touring, but there is not much detail on their website about what makes it a touring bike, and the geometry chart doesn't seem like a touring bike at all to me. They're a pretty smart company so I'm guessing maybe their website is just out of date or something,

In any case, Seven wouldn't be the first (or second or third) company I'd think of to make a bike like this.

Look at Robert Beckman(RBD) Sakkit. He has a special this month on bikes, racks and panniers. Certainly meet your needs.

Look at Robert Beckman(RBD) Sakkit. He has a special this month on bikes, racks and panniers. Certainly meet your needs.

This may be unfair, but from what others have said, if you order a Sakkit today, it *might* be ready by time the tour starts in 2012. :)

The price list on his website is dated 1998.
The pannier models are listed as "new for 1999."
The components listed on the touring model are obsolete.

It's not clear to me that these bikes are actually available.


[Happy to stand corrected if any Sakkit owners chime in with evidence to the contrary]

While some people might want to say go with the cheapest reliable bike (LHT) or the more expensive models like seven or co-motion, have you looked at bike that fall into the middle of the range? Something like a Thorn Sherpa. Or better yet figure out exactly what you want and have a fram builder local to you produce one.

Hey Everyone -
Thank you for your comments and thoughts. As I said, I'm still in the process of making a decision. I appreciate the advice in regards to other brands such as Bruce Gordon, Bilenky, and Thorn. I will definitely consider those.

I also appreciate the thoughts on Seven and custom bikes.

The reason I'm leaning towards Co-Motion or Seven is because of servicability and having bike shops that deal with the bikes. Certainly open to the other options though. Was that ever a major consideration when you were purchasing your bike (ie. do you have a bike shop that is a dealer for your bike brand) ?

Again, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

(ie. do you have a bike shop that is a dealer for your bike brand) ?

A good bike shop can/will work on any brand of bike. Except in rare cases when you have a frame problem, it's going to be the components and wheels that need servicing, not the frame.

It would be great to buy from a local shop if you need help with fitting, or want a local ally if you are worried about frame warranty issues. However, it's certainly possible, and common, to travel to buy a bike or buy a bike over the phone or web and then have it serviced locally.

I own 4 bikes; only one came from a bike shop that's local to me.

If your considering a Rohloff hub you've fallen into the category of "cost is of no importance." Doesn't mean you have have to spend the money. I agree with CycleSafe and his cycle safe approach. Money is best spent on quality parts you can not only reliey on but FIND in the far corners of the world.

All those hot debates about cycling technology (i.e cantis vs linear vs disk) used to have "part availability" tossed around when the debates were new. Well in the United States thats no longer a problem I can get a new set of Avid disk brakes, or 650c wheel shipped to me at any middle-of-god's-country lbs. But the world....think again.

Buy the most EXPENSIVE and your chances of finding a replacement is slim to none in the 3rd world
Buy the best QUALITY and your chances of needing a replacement is slim to none everywhere
Now I know you want to mix the two, and you can mostly, but be carefull. You got the right idea about 700c wheels, but stay away from bizarre hub spacing, and frames you can't get (kinda) repaired. I would travel the world on a beach cruiser before a $8,000+ bike that I can't find a part for, for the next 10,000 miles.

+1 on Bruce Gordon! Why dont you tell us where you live and maybe we can think of some other custom builders near you since that seems to be a big concern?

Hey Everyone -
Thank you for your comments and thoughts. As I said, I'm still in the process of making a decision. I appreciate the advice in regards to other brands such as Bruce Gordon, Bilenky, and Thorn. I will definitely consider those.

I also appreciate the thoughts on Seven and custom bikes.

The reason I'm leaning towards Co-Motion or Seven is because of servicability and having bike shops that deal with the bikes. Certainly open to the other options though. Was that ever a major consideration when you were purchasing your bike (ie. do you have a bike shop that is a dealer for your bike brand) ?

Again, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

The impression I get is that you want the bike to be special in some way and you're focusing on two high end bikes from local shops. But those shops will become immaterial when you're riding. If you're new to touring "I'd like to get very familiar with the bike and also ride it on some shorter tours before 2012." I'd suggest investing in that experience and not a very high end bike. Those experiences will inform your decision better.

What bike do you have now and have you taken it on trips, are you average proportion or do you need something that can't be found in stock configurations?

these comments are worth repeating:

"Trying to control all of the variables of touring and equipment reduces the serendipity to an after thought instead of the main direct experience of traveling among new cultures in new places. Attitude is more important than equipment in my experience"

"BTW, if you have a high quality thin walled cro-mo frame, chances of an adequate repair in the third world are also slim to none....
For the epic journey you suggest, I would take a bike that I wouldn't so much mind abandoning if I needed to bail somewhere. Transporting a bike when sick, injured, or tired of traveling is a PITA and expensive - if it can be done at all. I know I'd regret leaving a $6-8,000 titanium frame Rohloff-equipped bike in some village somewhere."

Thanks again for all the comments, I am adding them into my research process.

Just to clarify, I'm open to other brands. I'm leaning against Seven due to the comments provided in the thread and because I fit fine on stock bike sizes.

Wow, sounds like a great trip! Your main considerations should be reliability, simplicity, repairability, and availability of replacement parts. Your bike should be a slightly upscale version of whatever the locals are riding, and I think your equipment research should be mainly finding out what they ride in the countries you'll be travelling to. A rigid steel-framed mountain bike is strong, cheap, works great, and you'll have a much easier time finding replacement parts for 26" wheels. I have a Trek 520 and even though it's a beautiful bike and I dearly love it, I would not take it on a self-supported world tour through remote areas, just because it's almost impossible to find 700C rims, tires, and spokes in most of the places you'll be travelling through. I've met guys on world bike tours who actually use steel rims, because they can be bent back more easily than aluminum. In the same vein, you might want to consider a thread-on freewheel instead of a cassette, cuz that's what's they're still using in most of the world. Most bike shops in most places outside of the US and Europe will cause you to reformulate your definition of "basic", and you WILL be depending on these shops. If you get too hung up on equipment, it can become the central part of the trip and distract you from what's going on around you. Consider the bike expendable, you should accept the possibility of it getting wrecked or stolen, and even if it doesn't, it'll probably be fairly thrashed by the time you get back. Personally, I'd get an old Trek 850 or something that, and let my young son repaint it whatever colors he likes. I'd put on steel racks, a comfortable seat and handlebars, super-low gears, fenders, and the strongest wheels I could find, and be off. I'd use the thousands of dollars I saved on equipment to extend the trip or do something really cool that I wouldn't have otherwise considered. Good luck, it will be a great experience.

, and the strongest wheels I could find, .

that's what I was thinking if tmorrison is starting totally from scratch. Use all that "gotta get the best" energy getting some mondo strong 26" wheels built by some reputable builder and then get a mundane 26" stock touring bike. Spend the next two years trying to break the frame and if it hasn't put on the super wheels and head out.

Wow, sounds like a great trip! Your main considerations should be reliability, simplicity, repairability, and availability of replacement parts.

+1

Specing your bike out with XTR, and other top end components is probably a bad idea because of specialty parts and lots of aluminum bolts, etc. Modern high end components were designed to be light, and that usually means complexity, special parts, and a somewhat decreased durability.

I can understand the advantages of having a custom frame for size/geometry purposes. But to think that buying from a high end maker is going to mean security and reliability isn't very wise.

I really think you would be better off buying one of the new 26' LHT frames, buying handmade bomber wheels, and then handpicking every component yourself with the advice of a good mechanic. I'd even go so far as to source every bolt (I wouldn't want aluminum bolts on the crank rings for example).

With you money you save, take a wrenching class, take a welding class, and also take a basic outdoor survival class. And buy a dedicated road bike for when you get back. That's all possible for the 7-8K you'd end up spending on a Seven with top-o-the-line components.

You'll be much better off, won't be overly worried about something happening to your uber-expensive bike, and will probably have a better time because you'll have much more self-reliance and confidence.

Not to throw a wrench into things but, Have you looked at a Koga Miyata World Travler? They seem to be very popular and widely used by the round the world comunity. The only down side for me was the aluminum frame but that is just me. I ended up buying an LHT frame and building it almost exactly like the WT with the exception of a couple of upgrades (Paul brakes, Brooks).

26" LHT with handbuilt wheels for the win! OR the BRUCE GORDON BLT-X but with 8 speed.

with the money savings you could even have a complete backup bike in pieces ready to be sent to you from your support base if need be. as well as a stash of tires, tubes, chains, your favorite comfort food, etc to be boxed up and express shipped to wherever you are.

a couple of months ago i wound up running into and chatting out with a German well more than halfway thru his Puenta Arenas to Vancouver BC then NYC tour; he was using an 8 speed drivetrain on a 26" wheeled bike for reliability, longevity, and availability of repair bits.

food for thought.

+1

I'd even go so far as to source every bolt (I wouldn't want aluminum bolts on the crank rings for example).

.

Good point, especially on the high end stuff where tiny chromed screws with soft heads are used. I got top of the line Shimano clipless touring pedals for a folding bike and the pretty shiny chromed springs got rusty and changed the retention pressure compared to the boxier cheaper model with the regular steel spring.

The reason I'm leaning towards Co-Motion or Seven is because of servicability and having bike shops that deal with the bikes.
How are these any more serviceable than any other bike?

================


I want to lessen the risk of major problems when I am in the middle of nowhere.
This is a reasonable goal but you also need to have a plan for dealing with major problems.

Keep in mind that anything can break or wear-out or be stolen. On a round-the-world trip, these things would seem to inevitable.

I'd suggest thinking about making it easy/inexpensive/fast to replace everything/anything on the bike (including the the frame).

It might make more sense to purchase something "good enough" but relatively cheap rather than putting a lot of money into one bicycle that has "magic" properties to ward-off equipment failures. It would make even more sense to do this if you have any sort of budget.

The problem with a custom or semi-custom frame is that they are expensive and probably hard to replace in other parts of the world. It's not clear that these frames are any stronger than something less expensive. If you went with a cheaper (stock) frame, you could buy a spare.

Given what people say about the availability of wheels/tires, it would seem that 26 inch wheels might be the way to go.

================


I want the highest quality frames and components for the trip.

What you really want is stuff that is good enough and is easily/cheaply/quickly replaceable because anything can break!

================


7. I want to be able to enjoy riding the bike when it is not loaded up with gear as well. ( I do plan on returning to a "normal" life after the trip )
Of course, this should be the least important requirement. This would be less of an issue if you chose a less expensive bike for this trip. If you go for something more "off roady", it might work well for your trip but not be that great for unloaded road riding. You are asking for a lot of magic!


I'm sticking with brands that shops near me carry.
Why? If you can (and want), supporting your LBS makes sense. If buying something they don't carry will increase the likelihood of the trip's success, this requirement isn't important. Note that your LBS will work on any bike you have (and be glad to do it) because you'd pay them! (Every bike shop can get Surley/Salsa stuff.)

...5. I will probably be pulling a trailer for at least part of the trip - due to needing an adequate water supply.
...
Tim

Consider the Extrawheel trailer: http://www.extrawheelusa.com/

It provides a spare wheel. Extrawheel is the world's only large-diameter wheel bicycle trailer. This can come in handy if you have a problem with the bike's front wheel and the nearest bike shop is miles away. Simply swap the wheels so the damaged wheel can carry the lighter load of the trailer.

Michael

that's what I was thinking if tmorrison is starting totally from scratch. Use all that "gotta get the best" energy getting some mondo strong 26" wheels built by some reputable builder and then get a mundane 26" stock touring bike. Spend the next two years trying to break the frame and if it hasn't put on the super wheels and head out.

Hey LeeG, I am going back and reviewing the thread and saw this. Do you have any suggestions for reputable builders of strong 26" wheels? Maybe you can give me a starting point...

Thanks
Tim

For that sort of trip, I'd build up an LHT (4130 steel is easier to weld) and beat on it for the next two years and you will probably find what works. I don't think that touring bikes are all that fun to ride without the adventure of the tour to look forward to. I would take the LHT for the tour and then build up some high-end, custom ride when you get back.

Definitely, be sure to post your travels

what I'm worried about, is how dedicated you already seem to be to making an around the world trip. I see you, a person who has zero personal experience going on tour, and you're talking about going on a tour around the world.

I would suggest what most people have so far, buy a mid-range bike, and go on some shorter tours first. In all honesty, you don't even know if you will truly enjoy touring. I'm not trying to discourage you from going on this trip, by all means, go for it. Buy a bike, go out riding on a weekly basis, get touring gear, and go out for a few week or two tours. Build up to it.

Hey LeeG, I am going back and reviewing the thread and saw this. Do you have any suggestions for reputable builders of strong 26" wheels? Maybe you can give me a starting point...

Thanks
Tim

sure, there are lots of good wheel builders around, most bike shops should be able to build good wheels.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp

Co-Motion builds the bike you want, plus they are so nice to work with. Place the order, you won't be sorry. I'd stay far away from Surley for what you are planning.

or how about one of these custom builders?

http://wjc.fidean.net/log/twin-cities-area-custom-framebuilders/

funny thing about all this money for custom or limited production bikes is the number of folks who've traveled on plain old bikes. I was talking to a fellow who rode a Peugeot from India to Italy in the 60's when he was in his teens. Steel rims, carbon steel frame, steel cranks, steel brakes, canvas bags. When I was 23 I had a custom bike made up according to my idea of a road bike then it was stolen four months later. Then I bought a custom Lippy touring bike frame and built it up and rode it on a trip from Utah to Colorado. But it had a heinous shimmy. Thereafter I did trips on whatever bike I had and outfitted it accordingly.

Well if the thought is custom, think about Lighthouse Bicycles in Santa Barbara CA. The frame builder is the one and only Tim Neenan. Tim designed the Expedition for Specialized in the 1980's, so he's up to the task I'd say. http://www.lighthousecycles.com/

I still think the Co-Motion is the bike for you.

Well if the thought is custom, think about Lighthouse Bicycles in Santa Barbara CA. The frame builder is the one and only Tim Neenan. Tim designed the Expedition for Specialized in the 1980's, so he's up to the task I'd say. http://www.lighthousecycles.com/

I still think the Co-Motion is the bike for you.

that is a treat.

Sounds like lots of miles on less-than-perfect roads, trails and worse. Take a look at the Tout Terrain from Peter White Cycles http://bit.ly/U2C3Y. Drop or flat bars; 26"; disc brakes only; Rohloff or derailleur; integrated rack.
Also, suggest you invest heavily in your wheels. Peter White is a Master.