Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Mid 80's Casati

Greetings!
I made the mistake of placing this post in the General Section and someone there was kind enough to suggest to bring it to the right section:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=9885895&posted=1#post9885895

The pictures are detailed but I have not idea what this bike goes for, assuming it is a real Casati.
I am not an expert at bikes at all. I have fallen in love with this Italian beauty but can't say much of it except that as you can see, it is bright red and the paint looks too new to me.
What do the experts say?

W/ a full 600 Ultegra tri-color STI group and the other ancillary parts its worth $300 more than a frameset. It appears to be a very well cared for bike thats excuted well to boot. Titanium Flite saddle, American classic seatpost.

Whats the frameset worth? $350? $400?

W/ a full 600 Ultegra tri-color STI group and the other ancillary parts its worth $300 more than a frameset. It appears to be a very well cared for bike thats excuted well to boot. Titanium Flite saddle, American classic seatpost.

Whats the frameset worth? $350? $400?

Wow, that is one eye opener. Thank you much.
They are asking $1100. firm. Which, without knowing its components price alone, seems a bit overpriced to me. Would you pay a grand for it? Irrelevantly whether you like this bike or not, what do you think is a fair price?

Wow, that is one eye opener. Thank you much.
They are asking $1100. firm. Which, without knowing its components price alone, seems a bit overpriced to me. Would you pay a grand for it? Irrelevantly whether you like this bike or not, what do you think is a fair price?

Fair is relative. Can you duplicate that bike in the same condition for the same price? The reality is that Shimano 600 Ultegra tri-color components aren't expensive. Dont get me wrong, they are very good components and the STI levers in good conidtion are hard to come by.

Something else to consider is your ability to build a bike. Lets say you acquire the needed parts and frameset to build an identicle bike. Could you? Do you know how to build wheels? Can your press in headset cups and install a BB?

Very rarely do I advocate paying more for a bike than the sum of the parts, in this particular instance, because of the overall condition and what appears to be a very nice bike, I'd say there's a premium to be paid. How much of a premium? Who knows.

Bike's worth it. If you don't buy it, someone else will. Here's the deal with Casati; some four or five years ago a store in NYC, helping himself out as well as relieving Casati of unsold invetory, aquired then unleashed a great many Casatis. He'd been a Casati seller himself for years. At that time, taking advantage of the Fixie craze, he was able to sell most of them once word got out, it got out here in the forums at least three years ago. Presumably a similar scenario occurred where you're from, providing that you're not from NYC. He still dribbles 'em out one or two at a time on e-bay. Frames worth $800 to $1,500 (some even more) he puts up at two or so and gets five or so. Casati was a world class bike. Now, not so much.

The point is that your bike is in fact brand new (most likely). That model wasn't imported in great numbers when it was made. It has Italian paint and I don't know the tube set; SL, SLX, SP, SPX... It only would effect the value so much. (not very)
The parts could be newish or not at all new.

My wanting the bike would depend on the tube set, there are still alot of Italian bikes out there aside from his. So for me it's more of a question of being unique.
I don't want ANY bike... but hypothetically speaking. I shouldn't think that it ought to matter much to you what tubes it has actually, only you can answer that.

You know.. lots o' rat bikes out there. New Italian frame & forks start at a thousand.
Some brands, the lugged steel ones closer to two or more unless you find blems.

Bike's worth it. If you don't buy it, someone else will. Here's the deal with Casati; some four or five years ago a store in NYC, helping himself out as well as relieving Casati of unsold invetory, aquired then unleashed a great many Casatis. He'd been a Casati seller himself for years. At that time, taking advantage of the Fixie craze, he was able to sell most of them once word got out, it got out here in the forums at least three years ago. Presumably a similar scenario occurred where you're from, providing that you're not from NYC. He still dribbles 'em out one or two at a time on e-bay. Frames worth $800 to $1,500 (some even more) he puts up at two or so and gets five or so. Casati was a world class bike. Now, not so much.

The point is that your bike is in fact brand new (most likely). That model wasn't imported in great numbers when it was made. It has Italian paint and I don't know the tube set; SL, SLX, SP, SPX... It only would effect the value so much. (not very)
The parts could be newish or not at all new.

My wanting the bike would depend on the tube set, there are still alot of Italian bikes out there aside from his. So for me it's more of a question of being unique.
I don't want ANY bike... but hypothetically speaking. I shouldn't think that it ought to matter much to you what tubes it has actually, only you can answer that.

You know.. lots o' rat bikes out there. New Italian frame & forks start at a thousand.
Some brands, the lugged steel ones closer to two or more unless you find blems.

Good point.
My initial post in the General Section was a result of me not knowing if this was indeed a Casati or not.
A new paint job (as this one appears to be) implies that the frame might not be a Casati, just new stickers and emblems.
I had never thought about it until I saw on e-bay a set of new decals for DeRosa. So it occurred to me that perhaps someone could do the same thing not just with high end 9k bikes but with so-called vintage Italians (like this one) for a thousand.
So far I have ascertained from you guys that a-) yes indeed, it is a Casasti and b-) it is in excellent condition.
Now, the price for it is another matter. $1100.00 seems a lot to me.

I am not understanding the part about the tubes. By that you mean the tires? and if so, if I buy this bike, would I have any problems finding tires that fit? or can I just slap on some new tires (tubes) from any bike shop.

The bike frame is new, I've seen 'em at a store, lined -up like so many cans o' soup at the market. Eliminate the re-paint notion.

Stickers listing the model of tubes, as I wrote. Actual model of metal tubing.(NOT just the name Columbus) and not the tire tubes.
There's not such a huge dif. with that brand; no tube sets were infererior. It's just that to us bike fans.... we care. Build quality is most important, it's there for sure. the exact way the tubes were attached and their exact quality adds to the value.

If you can't reconcile a thousand, you aren't a likely buyer for a newer than older bicycle made in Italy. (or any new high quality Taiwan made road bike for that matter)

Here's what you do:

Email: Attn: Stefania at Casati
Send: Pic and serial number of bike
Ask: For confirmation of the bike's legitimacy and origin

Stefania will get back to you. She got back to me quickly. Even offered a tour of the factory, but they were on break at our convenient time. Very nice to work with.

CASATI snc

di Casati Gianluigi & C.

Via Prampolini 7

20052 MONZA MI

Tel. ++39.039.2840442

Fax ++39.039.2321200

ciclicasati@ciclicasati.it

www.ciclicasati.it

That looks like a great Casati, but why don't you confim it before you drop $1,100. I have a Casati Gold Line S that I am rebuilding. The features on my bike do not resemble yours, but I am not very knowledgable about the brand overall, just the model I have.

Cheers and good luck,
gomango

Wow, now we are talking.
Direct to Casati for confirmation it is then.

Thanks so much!

Worth an email to Casati for $1,100. No problem and I hope it works for you.

Worth an email to Casati for $1,100. No problem and I hope it works for you.

Well Casati is not responding.
Maybe they are too busy or just tired of helping people who pester them with questions and not buying one of THEIR bikes.
I did not attach any pictures for fear it would send my e-mail to their spam file.
Just a quick "Can You Help Me" email and awaiting their response.

Oh well.

If you really are smitten with the Casati, go for it. I still think they will get back to you soon, if not, that might say something about the brand. I rode mine for the last time in its current configuration three weekends ago and it was a blast. While you are at it, google Casati 90th Anniversary model and that's the look my painter and I are going for on my Casati. Couple of my friends are building out bikes with me this winter, a beautiful DeRosa Primato (EL/OS) and an equally stunning DeRosa Replica 65. My bike will be a pearl white, with an original correct Gold Line S decal set that I scored last summer. It's going to be a little bit old and a little bit new. 2009 Campy Centaur mixed with some very nice Record pieces as well. I have decided to try tubulars again (my wife races on them) and I am going to go look at a nice used GP4 Mavic tubular wheelset tonight. If that doesn't work, I have a set of near new Mavic MA40s with Record Hubs. The front is original, while the rear is a new Record 10 speed hub. They were both re-laced this summer. I've got some other choice bits stashed for this project as well. A white San Marco Regal, Cinelli XA stem, Cinelli 64 bars and on and on. At any rate, after the repaint, and the rebuild, I'll have about the same amount as you into the bike. I have a lot of work to do to get mine ready, and it will be fun doing this with friends and my new found mechanics a.k.a our children. All you have to do is make sure the bike fits, its as advertised, and hand over the cash. Voila, you are into the Italian bike obsession. I wish you luck.

Also, the Casati you are interested in "is " one of their bikes most likely. Every brand I have contacted about bikes has returned my inquiry. That's how loyalty could be built with the consumer. Here's a pic of mine before the project began.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/3897174035_53377695a2.jpg

Well Casati is not responding.
Maybe they are too busy or just tired of helping people who pester them with questions and not buying one of THEIR bikes.
I did not attach any pictures for fear it would send my e-mail to their spam file.
Just a quick "Can You Help Me" email and awaiting their response.

Oh well.

I'd give it more than a day. I getting the impression this realy isnt the bike for you.

all you need to make it a Casati:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Casati-Goldline-decal-set-for-Campagnolo-bike-new_W0QQitemZ300242926904QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item45e7df7d38

this is what worries me

I can dig it. I always had my opinion, more based on gut feeling and in seeing those bikes.
I can't dismiss your feelings either.

I can dig it. I always had my opinion, more based on gut feeling and in seeing those bikes.
I can't dismiss your feelings either.

Brother, I don't have those gut feelings. Fact is, I have never seen one.
This one here has me thinking it might be a Casati and I love the bike. Even if there is a possibility it might be a fake with only Casati stickers on it, I love the end result but one thousand washingtons is a ton of money for me.
Hence the need for your educated op.
I am leaning towards buying it but man, a thousand for a fake really does not let me sleep at night.

We all agree on the side of 'it is probably a Casati' the question is, assuming it is a real 80's Casati, is it worth $1100? and the secondary question is, assuming it is not a Casati (just the sticker logos) how much is it worth?

Your anxiety pales in comparison to mine at such times. I'm down-right mental. I've been down that road, taken the wrong exit and beyond. Something will tip the scales, the dude might call.

I wanted one of them, the men at the store didn't take me seriously.
They kept blowin' me off so I went a different route. I would've had them build it too. things got wierd so I bolted. perhaps I should've just grabbed the frame and built it-up seperately in retrospect.

I get the worry part as well. No one wants to get ripped. The stickers alone will never be enough for id work on my Casati. My Casati has many identifying frame features that are unique to the builder, thus its charm and interest to me. Like many builders, they made and currently make many models that have other features that distinguish the bike at a certain price point. I googled Casati last night for grins and saw many great examples to help give you some pointers. That is one of the "fun" aspects of this bike game, the research and id work. Ultimately it comes down to ride for me though, and performance as well. I don't collect. I build, ride, and often sell. I like to try lots of different brands. I don't get caught on prices, because I have some luck and I research before I try a new brand. You are doing the same thing, except you haven't done it much yet, hence the worry and anxiety. If the bike is not a Casati I have no idea how to evaluate, but it still might be a great ride. I seriously would not pay more than $300 for a mis-represented bike though. The components are nice, but I see them fairly often locally. My buddy just paid $100 for a 600 group. Not as clean as the one on your bike, but functionally fine. Ultimately, you have to do the research and decide if the bike is a good value. Again, good luck.

I get the worry part as well. No one wants to get ripped. The stickers alone will never be enough for id work on my Casati. My Casati has many identifying frame features that are unique to the builder, thus its charm and interest to me. Like many builders, they made and currently make many models that have other features that distinguish the bike at a certain price point. I googled Casati last night for grins and saw many great examples to help give you some pointers. That is one of the "fun" aspects of this bike game, the research and id work. Ultimately it comes down to ride for me though, and performance as well. I don't collect. I build, ride, and often sell. I like to try lots of different brands. I don't get caught on prices, because I have some luck and I research before I try a new brand. You are doing the same thing, except you haven't done it much yet, hence the worry and anxiety. If the bike is not a Casati I have no idea how to evaluate, but it still might be a great ride. I seriously would not pay more than $300 for a mis-represented bike though. The components are nice, but I see them fairly often locally. My buddy just paid $100 for a 600 group. Not as clean as the one on your bike, but functionally fine. Ultimately, you have to do the research and decide if the bike is a good value. Again, good luck.

Thanks for answering one of my questions; If it turns out NOT to be a Casati, just a new paint job with Casati stickers, you would not pay more than $300.00. Even for a nice looking one as this one is.

Now we are getting somewhere because, as I have said, I have never owned, seen or even heard of a Casati myself. My estimation then is totally blind.

Since you do own one (nice one by the way) and you have seen the pics of this possible one that I am interested in, what do you think is worth if it turns out to be a real 85 Casati?

No clue. I'll be honest with you. Probably well south of $1,100. If I were to spend $1,100 on a bike, it would have to be something I've been chasing for a bit. The question ultimately should be- How badly do you want it? Time to do your research and watch the market. You'll find your bike.