Utility Cycling - so I took up some part time work...

...hauling stuff. I get $1/pound to bring some dense materials 1.5 miles or so.

So I was thinking about getting one of these locally built machines:
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/stpt.jpg

Opinions?
Should I just take smaller loads on my bike?
Trailer?
Other utility bike/trike?

I was just walking the stuff with a hand truck, but I broke it after I loaded it with 300 pounds. :trainwreck:

sounds like a good workout depending on what you haul weightwise, but before you step
upand investin a rather specialty bike, I would make sure the work is gonna pay for it at
least enough to get this bike.

if you are looking at 300 lbs at a shot, I would look into adapting a heavy duty 4-wheel
garden trailer to tow behind your bike. something like this:

http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/images/garden-carts/garden-trailer-lg.jpg

sounds like a good workout depending on what you haul weightwise, but before you step
upand investin a rather specialty bike, I would make sure the work is gonna pay for it at
least enough to get this bike.

if you are looking at 300 lbs at a shot, I would look into adapting a heavy duty 4-wheel
garden trailer to tow behind your bike. something like this:

http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/images/garden-carts/garden-trailer-lg.jpg

I've never actually tried a trailer before, but I've always wondered what happens to the load when you brake. I mean without a rigid connection (which is impossible because the bike needs to lean, but the trailer can't), it seems liable to want to swing around, which has to lead to a really dangerous handling due to wheel skidding etc. I'm really concerned about handling with a trailer because 300 pounds can be a bit unwieldy even with a hand truck.

The other thing is shipping, anything to haul a decent amount of weight is going to be heavy itself. I can buy the worksman locally and ride it home (24 miles on bad roads with what is probably some of he heaviest parkway-like traffic in the country). Sure to be a drag on a trike, but sure to also be an interesting trip for a saturday. But getting it home is only half the story because when I move to a new home this is sure to be the most difficult item to move (sorry but I don't think I could handle moving hundreds of miles by human power even if I owned this trike).

Also, while you have a point about making sure the job will last long enough to justify the cost (I'm posting this thread because I think it's been going on long enough that it could be a worthwhile investment...plus I have to buy something since jobs are taking longer since I broke my hand truck), I was thinking that the trike might also be easily converted to a pedicab or vending cart. Worksman also sells vending cart models of this cart, which is something I've always wanted to try to do and I think the girlfriend would appreciate a ride in a pedicab. :)

Also, I have a 26" rear wheel with derailleur and a front derailleur I'm not using. All my bikes are internal hubs because I normally can't be bothered with derailleurs, but for a utility bike that only gets used once a week at most I was thinking the wide range of a 27 speed would be perfect especially since the grease from a dirty derailleur wouldn't be a big deal when doing manual labor. Plus it will save me a lot of money to buy the singlespeed model and upgrade it with my current parts.

However, I'm afraid I'm missing something. Why don't utility bikes typically have derailleurs? Can they not take as much torque as an internal hub?

derailleurs = cogsets and/or multiple chainrings
of which
the chain obviously moves up and down, to change gears.

its the shifting of the chain, that is the potential issue

that is...
to shift into an easier gear, under pedal pressure
or to shift from the big ring into a smaller chain ring
while under pressure
often times...
these systems do not particularly like this type of shifting

optimally, the rider should ease up a bit on the pedal pressure, and shift
as if to minimize tension on the chain/cogset/et al

its the banging of gears
the crunching of gears
the breaking of teeth on cogs and chainrings
bending chainrings...

all of which is not good.

however, with IGH, they do away with the shifting of the chain...
no jumping chain, etc...

cargo bikes can end up being expensive

these days, I am very curious as to Metrofiets
http://www.metrofiets.com/

I own a big dummy, and use it all the time... i love my dummy.

another solution is a trailer
specifically
http://www.bikesatwork.com/

Sounds like a good plan, but I wouldn't want to ride 24 miles on it. Those type bikes are used everyday all over the world for hauling. Get it delivered . Can you keep it at your workplace ?

Bikes At Work (http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html) trailers are built to handle some amazing loads, and I suspect would work better than the trike you pictured. Those trikes are very slow and designed to be used on flat, relative smooth surfaces. The key is going to be able to stop your load. Disc brakes are probably going to be a necessity.

I have also seen electric assist cargo box trikes for delivery, I believe they have some in Boston.

Aaron:)

Bikes At Work (http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html) trailers are built to handle some amazing loads, and I suspect would work better than the trike you pictured. Those trikes are very slow and designed to be used on flat, relative smooth surfaces. The key is going to be able to stop your load. Disc brakes are probably going to be a necessity.


This doesn't make any sense to me. These trikes have been used for vending services:
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/icecreamtrike.jpg
and making deliveries:
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/SUD.jpg
in the real world for over a hundred years. In fact, these exact trikes are some of the only examples of work bikes finding wide scale commercial success in american history. They are not necessarily for flat smooth factory floors.

It's hard to imagine how a trailer could possibly work better when turning on inclines or under braking because there's no way to control a trailer (it needs to be dragged in the direction you want by the front wheel, which just sounds like a recipe for trouble). Faster maybe, but I'm not so sure it's safe to move 500 pounds fast and especially if you can't control it well.

Oh well, sounds like no one here has much experience with a trike like this. I was going to try to get a test ride at the factory so I guess I'll just do that, but the problem is I don't think I'll be able to try it with a load.

For a couple weeks one summer a long time ago (in a galaxy far away), I had a job selling ice cream out of one of these trikes. First off, it is a lot harder to get moving than you expect. So make sure you have the low gears or forget it any kind of incline. Second, handling is horrible. Beyond 10 mph, you spend all your time and most of your energy controlling the weave. Last, good brakes. The one I was using only had a coaster brake which was entirely inadequate. A pair of calipers on the front wheels would have made all the difference.

:)ensen.

Around here, Home Depot rents little trucks by the hour, and that would be the ideal way to get that Worksman home over 24 miles of busy roads (I averaged 8 mph on my last trip). Or a friend with a pickup. A U-Haul truck would be another option. I can just barely squeeze mine (with a narrower platform) into the back of my Vue, by the way. Those things are wide, slow, and you pretty well take a lane whether you want to or not. The model you're looking at is a bit wider than the other version with the wheels under the platform. I've ridden mine that far before, but it was on a bike trail or non-busy streets with numerous rest stops, too. On the plus side, you can take a floor pump, ice chest, or whatever else you need with you.

On the trike I have, there are 4 bolts that bolt the springs to the bottom of the cargo tray. You could easily bolt anything else on there. Actually buying an ice-cream box is liable to be expensive, check into that before you buy.

Check with Worksman and see if they have any sales or will give a discount for local pickup.

I have seen used Worksman pedicabs built on that frame, although they don't list one currently. But one thing to watch is that on the Asian pedicabs similar to that, the pedaler sits up higher where he can see over the canopy. Also, these just have a coaster brake on the rear wheel, and stopping 600 lbs on a slope would be a bad deal. They are made for factory floors mainly, not so much for about town. The front wheels don't conveniently allow better brakes, either.

Why they don't have derailleurs is because they're low-tech, with Astabula cranks and all. The rear frame is only wide enough for a coaster-brake hub. They are twitchy on the steering, and you don't want to ride them fast, anyway. That brings up another point. You want some practice riding one of those things before you start on a 24 mile road trip. They do tip easily when empty. Handling is not as bad as the post above implies, but does take some practice, and you do want to limit speed- definitely slower than a bicycle.

Going over an overpass was a major challenge for me this last Sunday, but I made it. It was a good leg-press workout. I think they weigh maybe 100 lbs empty.

Bikes At Work (http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html) trailers are built to handle some amazing loads, and I suspect would work better than the trike you pictured...

I would suspect the same. The BAW trailers are rated to carry up to 300 pounds.

Your job pays very well. It sounds like it would be easy to make $1500/day (Five trips x 300lbs).

Chucky,
Those trikes you are showing are short distance usage only I would say under 3 miles. If you want to haul longer distances you will either want a trailer or some type of portuer bike depending on the physical size of the load. I have ridden a variety of heavily laden trikes over the years, try making the moves on them that you pointed out in your post. They will turn over faster on a side hill than any trailer will.

If you are trying to make money on deliveries the quicker they can be done the more you will make to a point. In reality the best bike for deliveries would be something like a platform Metrofiets (http://www.metrofiets.com/) or possibly a Bakfiets. They aren't cheap.

Aaron:)

I would suspect the same. The BAW trailers are rated to carry up to 300 pounds.

Your job pays very well. It sounds like it would be easy to make $1500/day (Five trips x 300lbs).

I'm sure they can hold 300 pound loads just fine, but what I'm interested in is moving those loads, steering them, and controlling them and that requires not just a trailer to hold the load, but also an equivalently robust connection to the motor. How is a BAW trailer hitch going to compete with a single piece frame on these terms?


Chucky,
Those trikes you are showing are short distance usage only I would say under 3 miles. If you want to haul longer distances you will either want a trailer or some type of portuer bike depending on the physical size of the load. I have ridden a variety of heavily laden trikes over the years, try making the moves on them that you pointed out in your post. They will turn over faster on a side hill than any trailer will.

If you are trying to make money on deliveries the quicker they can be done the more you will make to a point. In reality the best bike for deliveries would be something like a platform Metrofiets (http://www.metrofiets.com/) or possibly a Bakfiets. They aren't cheap.


I don't have a lot of experience with cargo bikes; I typically just abusively overload my regular bikes or just haul stuff on foot. From these experiences I've noticed a few things:
1. Really heavy loads are unwieldy. Period. When I broke my handtruck carrying 300 pounds down the street I had to abandon my load to go buy a new one because I couldn't budge the stuff even an inch.
2. For me the limiting factor in loading my regular bikes has not been the strength of the frame or the amount of storage space or the handling. It's being able to hold the bike upright long enough to start pedaling.

That being said, the goal here is not to haul stuff quickly, but to just be able to haul it period (and if I can haul it slow then distance is only a matter of patience). If I thought I could push 500 pounds on foot then I'd just buy a bigger handtruck and if I can't even handle my load on foot then how is trying to pull it with a bicycle (ie in a trailer) going to make it any easier or safer? Likewise, if I can't push my load on four wheels then how is trying to balance it on a Bakfiets going to help me?

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I just don't see the benefit. Please enlighten me because there's no way for me to test any of the cargo solutions you're suggesting, so if these solutions really are better then the only way I'm not going to miss out on it is if you convince me.

Around here, Home Depot rents little trucks by the hour, and that would be the ideal way to get that Worksman home over 24 miles of busy roads (I averaged 8 mph on my last trip). Or a friend with a pickup. A U-Haul truck would be another option. I can just barely squeeze mine (with a narrower platform) into the back of my Vue, by the way. Those things are wide, slow, and you pretty well take a lane whether you want to or not. The model you're looking at is a bit wider than the other version with the wheels under the platform. I've ridden mine that far before, but it was on a bike trail or non-busy streets with numerous rest stops, too. On the plus side, you can take a floor pump, ice chest, or whatever else you need with you.

On the trike I have, there are 4 bolts that bolt the springs to the bottom of the cargo tray. You could easily bolt anything else on there. Actually buying an ice-cream box is liable to be expensive, check into that before you buy.

Check with Worksman and see if they have any sales or will give a discount for local pickup.

I have seen used Worksman pedicabs built on that frame, although they don't list one currently. But one thing to watch is that on the Asian pedicabs similar to that, the pedaler sits up higher where he can see over the canopy. Also, these just have a coaster brake on the rear wheel, and stopping 600 lbs on a slope would be a bad deal. They are made for factory floors mainly, not so much for about town. The front wheels don't conveniently allow better brakes, either.

Why they don't have derailleurs is because they're low-tech, with Astabula cranks and all. The rear frame is only wide enough for a coaster-brake hub. They are twitchy on the steering, and you don't want to ride them fast, anyway. That brings up another point. You want some practice riding one of those things before you start on a 24 mile road trip. They do tip easily when empty. Handling is not as bad as the post above implies, but does take some practice, and you do want to limit speed- definitely slower than a bicycle.

Going over an overpass was a major challenge for me this last Sunday, but I made it. It was a good leg-press workout. I think they weigh maybe 100 lbs empty.

Stephen,

I don't actually want to sell ice cream (seems like it would melt too easily), but I think some hot dogs or gyros would be fun. As far as pedicabing goes just a seat would be fine, I don't think I need a canopy: too difficult to store and not all pedicabs have them anyway.

As far as the difficulty of riding I was thinking I could upgrade the front hubs to the single sided trike drum brakes Sturmey Archer sells and since the frame is steel I could always spread the rear fork to fit a derailleur hub. I figure that should provide adequate stopping power and low enough gearing to make pedaling easy as pie (albiet slow...but isn't that the point of a trike? Who in their right mind would want to go fast with 500 pounds?). Although these upgrades woudn't help me for the ride home even at 8mph 24 miles would only take 3 hours, which isn't even a full afternoon. Also, since this model is wider than yours wouldn't that make it less tippy?

How do you think these trikes compare to other cargo hauling solutions? Pros and cons (or just cons :) ) ?

I'ved used a BAW trailer for delivery work for two years now. I would not consider using a Worksman trike. A longjohn style freight bike interests me somewhat, but the decreased capacity means I would have to turn down big jobs and I would have to run out deliveries to make room for more. With a large trailer I can route myself more efficiently because I can carry three of four decent sized car jobs at the same time plus I can handle the occasional truck call.

Before dismissing the B@W trailer, take a look at some of the loads our Mr QMS totes around the hills of DC in his daily job of cargo courier. One on page four is around 400 pounds.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=537447

If I was hauling a lot, that's what I'd get, or for a little smaller loads a Larry vs Harry. (http://www.larryvsharry.com/)

I suspect it may be harder to upgrade the brakes and add the deraileur than it sounds. Not that I've tried it. But on the frame, you don't have a lot of clearance between the crank arm and the frame member, so if you spread anything very much, you'll be getting the pedals into the frame. I'm not familiar with the S-A hubs you mention, but I guess there's a good chance they're the wrong size to fit those axles and/or spokes and/or rim. Anyway, if you're on level ground, single speed (or 3 speed) and a coaster brake is going to be fine. if you're going over hill and dale with heavy loads, you'd do better to start with something else rather than trying to modify one of these. By the way, my trike is geared 32:22, or about 2/3 the speed of my worksman cruiser bike and about 1/2 the speed of a lot of single-speeds, so you can move some weight on it.

You might ask Worksman about the brakes and gearing if you think either will be an issue. They do sell hub-type brakes on regular bikes, and would probably know of any ways to upgrade braking or gearing. You might also take a look at the 4-wheel version. I'm not sure what kind of brakes it has.

One other thing comes to mind. That platform is attached to the springs, which are attached to the front axle. But there's not a whole lot of strength in the front-to-back direction. So the 300 lbs would probably be okay, but you don't want it to be stacked up 8' high or something- a compact heavy load or a fluffy high load, but not a tall heavy load.

Whatever you wind up doing, it would be worthwhile to do some experimenting to see if you couldn't haul, say, 150#, and make loads twice as fast as 300# loads- there's got to be an optimum weight there somewhere.

sounds like a good workout depending on what you haul weightwise, but before you step
upand investin a rather specialty bike, I would make sure the work is gonna pay for it at
least enough to get this bike.

if you are looking at 300 lbs at a shot, I would look into adapting a heavy duty 4-wheel
garden trailer to tow behind your bike. something like this:

http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/images/garden-carts/garden-trailer-lg.jpg

I GOT ONE OF THEM!!! Home Depot has them for around $90.00, the last time I checked. I works GREAT behind my Miami Sun standard trike, can carry a load up to 1,000 pounds. You'll want at least a 3 speed at anything over 700 ~ 800 pounds though. Starting with that heavy a load with a single speed was a little rough sometimes.

The handle separates at the pin you see there, and has a hitch there that connects to a lawn tractor plate hitch. You re-use the pin and key when towing. I just mounted a piece of plywood under the rear basket of my trike, and drilled a hole for the pin.

my interest is piqued
what exactly are you moving around?
I've seen cargo trikes in factories
i once had seen a picture of trikes being used to haul sides of beef in an eastern european slaughter house.

balancing a large load is definitely an act of... well... balance. yes, its best to try to pack accordingly

however, it sounds as if, this may not be an option, simply you need to load up, and go.

i've hauled a 1/4 cord of wood, and plenty of big loads, but i don't think I've hauled 300lbs, much less 500!

maybe you're onto something here.
a market niche

I GOT ONE OF THEM!!! Home Depot has them for around $90.00, the last time I checked. I works GREAT behind my Miami Sun standard trike, can carry a load up to 1,000 pounds. You'll want at least a 3 speed at anything over 700 ~ 800 pounds though. Starting with that heavy a load with a single speed was a little rough sometimes.

The handle separates at the pin you see there, and has a hitch there that connects to a lawn tractor plate hitch. You re-use the pin and key when towing. I just mounted a piece of plywood under the rear basket of my trike, and drilled a hole for the pin.

Now I am really gonna mess with peoples heads. If you get the parts you would get with say a
Burley or similar trailer, I bet you can take the handle off this, give it to a commercial electrician
who has a tube bender, and have him put the same bend in it as if it was custom made to be towed
behind a bike. TA DA! custom heavy duty bike trailer.

Now I am really gonna mess with peoples heads. If you get the parts you would get with say a
Burley or similar trailer, I bet you can take the handle off this, give it to a commercial electrician who has a tube bender, and have him put the same bend in it as if it was custom made to be towed behind a bike. TA DA! custom heavy duty bike trailer.

WHY go through all that expense and hassle?
Remove clip from pin, remove pin, remove top portion of handle. Put "U" shaped hitch (covered in the photo by the upper portion of the handle) over flat plate, insert pin through hole in flat plate and "U" of handle, insert clip into the pin, and you have your trailer connected to your bike or trike; no welding or bending required.

I'ved used a BAW trailer for delivery work for two years now. I would not consider using a Worksman trike. A longjohn style freight bike interests me somewhat, but the decreased capacity means I would have to turn down big jobs and I would have to run out deliveries to make room for more. With a large trailer I can route myself more efficiently because I can carry three of four decent sized car jobs at the same time plus I can handle the occasional truck call.

What I can't get over is if trailers are so much better then why would anyone build a dedicated work bike/trike to begin with? I mean, these Worksman trikes have been used for hauling stuff here in ny since before cars were invented and remain popular to this day. Why would they have such a long lasting heritage if a cheaper, easier to build, trailer worked better? If trailers are better then why are the pedicabs popping up in cities across America dedicated one piece trikes? Why are the pics on the net of ridiculously large loads being carried in China mostly on dedicated trikes and not trailers? Something doesn't add up.

I grew up seeing worksman products all over the streets, so I've always thought that trailers were for slap ass lycra roadies or dirty west coast hippies who don't know or have access to better. Am I wrong?


my interest is piqued
what exactly are you moving around?

Money. It's New York, baby!

I had a worksman trike. it was awesome. I dented the rear fender abit though because I kept forgetting there where two wheels back there lol

Another idea is make a home made longtail. I noticed something with the one I just put togeather. one it's like paying for a case of pepsi to build it.

another thing I noticed is it can pull alot of stuff. good torqe in one of these bikes.and you design it yourseld to suit your needs.

In cunclusion to the pulling it can do, it can also pull many trailers behind it.

I used one of mine once to bring about 30 bicycles to my house lol Once trailer full of wheels. another full of frames and back of longtail packed with random frame and wheels. lol and safe for those around you... somewhat. lol

I suspect it may be harder to upgrade the brakes and add the deraileur than it sounds. Not that I've tried it. But on the frame, you don't have a lot of clearance between the crank arm and the frame member, so if you spread anything very much, you'll be getting the pedals into the frame. I'm not familiar with the S-A hubs you mention, but I guess there's a good chance they're the wrong size to fit those axles and/or spokes and/or rim. Anyway, if you're on level ground, single speed (or 3 speed) and a coaster brake is going to be fine. if you're going over hill and dale with heavy loads, you'd do better to start with something else rather than trying to modify one of these. By the way, my trike is geared 32:22, or about 2/3 the speed of my worksman cruiser bike and about 1/2 the speed of a lot of single-speeds, so you can move some weight on it.

You might ask Worksman about the brakes and gearing if you think either will be an issue. They do sell hub-type brakes on regular bikes, and would probably know of any ways to upgrade braking or gearing. You might also take a look at the 4-wheel version. I'm not sure what kind of brakes it has.

One other thing comes to mind. That platform is attached to the springs, which are attached to the front axle. But there's not a whole lot of strength in the front-to-back direction. So the 300 lbs would probably be okay, but you don't want it to be stacked up 8' high or something- a compact heavy load or a fluffy high load, but not a tall heavy load.

Whatever you wind up doing, it would be worthwhile to do some experimenting to see if you couldn't haul, say, 150#, and make loads twice as fast as 300# loads- there's got to be an optimum weight there somewhere.

Single sided brake hubs for trikes are on page 28 of the catalog here:
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/pdfs/Sturmey-Archer_2009-2010_Catalogue.pdf
XL-SD (90mm drum) and X-SD (70mm drum) each with choice of three different axles (Q,S,C) and left/right models.

You said the worksman trikes have a single axle for both wheels right? Is it actually a different diameter than standard? Because if it isn't it should be possible to rebuild the hubs onto the stock axle. Maybe worksman is building their own hubs, but for a $700 bike I'd be surprised if they weren't just modifying hubs sourced elsewhere. For the rear I can easily build my own internally geared wheel if the derailleur won't work (just that 26" derailleur wheels would be much cheaper), but for the front I suppose it might be worth it to ask them to build it custom with the hubs I want.

Lastly, I don't really see why taking smaller loads would be better. Even moving at a snails pace I think being able to load and unload everything at once would be worthwhile. I just need to stable platform to put it on and gearing/brakes to make pushing/stopping it feasible. Really I'm looking for more of a geared dolly with wheels big enough for the street than a bike. The quad is out of the question as it's not street legal.

On the Worksman trike that I have, the front axle is a single steel rod that goes through both front wheels. The wheels have two bearings, cone nuts with the two little holes in them, and a lock nut. The axle is maybe 3/4" or so, I haven't measured, but bigger than a normal bicycle axle. I don't think the axle can be removed from the trike.

On the Worksman trike that I have, the front axle is a single steel rod that goes through both front wheels. The wheels have two bearings, cone nuts with the two little holes in them, and a lock nut. The axle is maybe 3/4" or so, I haven't measured, but bigger than a normal bicycle axle. I don't think the axle can be removed from the trike.

That's almost twice the diameter of a standard bike axle. I wonder if it might be possible to drill out the end and screw the axle from a single sided hub right into it.

Alternatively Chris King makes a few different disc hubs with axle diameters in that range:
http://chrisking.com/hubs
I wonder if they could be mounted single sided. Of course then I'd need to bolt or braze on some disc mounts, but that's doable (the question is if it would be worth it).

I'm not willing to compromise on braking because that's half the reason why I don't just use some sort of dolly.

This carries 300 lbs, and probably gets the job done a little faster than a hand truck. My Bikes At Work 64AW

http://www.pointhappy.com/gcf/Bike&Trailer1.jpg

What I can't get over is if trailers are so much better then why would anyone build a dedicated work bike/trike to begin with? I mean, these Worksman trikes have been used for hauling stuff here in ny since before cars were invented and remain popular to this day. Why would they have such a long lasting heritage if a cheaper, easier to build, trailer worked better? If trailers are better then why are the pedicabs popping up in cities across America dedicated one piece trikes? Why are the pics on the net of ridiculously large loads being carried in China mostly on dedicated trikes and not trailers? Something doesn't add up.

I grew up seeing worksman products all over the streets, so I've always thought that trailers were for slap ass lycra roadies or dirty west coast hippies who don't know or have access to better. Am I wrong?



Money. It's New York, baby!

Don't know the answers to your questions, all I know is I'm not strong enough to rock a Worksman trike or a pedicab. I'm paid about 10 cents/pound, you're in a different league from me.

I'm a filthy lycra wearing east coast hippie, so you might be right about who trailers are for.

So you want to make only one trip, 500 pounds = $500 dollars in your pocket for a half hour of work. I can't say you're wrong. The figures add up nicely. :thumb:

Ok I did some research and here's what I found:
-The worksman mover delta trikes actually have a slightly higher weight limit than the tadpoles/front-loaders (550lbs vs 500lbs).
-The deltas are available stock with front hub brake which can be easily upgraded to the new monster 90mm sturmey drums.
-The deltas are easier to find used.

All else being equal I think the front loaders are definitely preferable for my uses because tadpoles are inherently less tippy, have better braking (if you have front brakes), more easily use a standard rear drivetrain, allow you to watch your load (which is important with valuable items, children, or items which are liable to bounce around), give you easier access to your load (for vending), and finally give your load a better view (for pedicabing).

Unfortunately, despite their high weight "limits" the particular front loaders made by Worksman seem to be primarily designed for vending where the load is relatively light with an afterthought that you could carry really heavy loads in a flat factory setting (and Worksman specifically mentions this in the manual). Consequently, equipping these models with the brakes necessary for hauling at capacity is going to be a time consuming and expensive task and while there are similar trikes from other manufacturers which are better suited (christiania, haley, organic engines, etc) they cost much more than I'm willing to pay (especially since none are locally available). So all else is not equal.

Therefore, since I need a cargo bike soon (don't know how long this part time work is going to continue) and the deltas available to me are really better suited to my immediate needs (hauling dense weight), with the requisite braking power, and with better availability and prices I'm thinking I'll just going to go with a used Worksman Mover for now. In the future maybe I'll get a front loader, but maybe not because despite their advantages for selling ice cream and pedicabbing and keeping an eye on children you certainly can't haul stuff like this with a front loader:
http://cargocycling.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/furnituretrike-300x225.jpg
http://cargocycling.org/2009/09/flickr-gallery-china-cargo-tricycles.html

P.S. Even bikes at work seems to use dedicated work bikes for really heavy loads. Their trailers are only rated to 300 pounds (when evenly loaded) and they seem to recommend real pedicabs for pedicabing.

Enjoy the ride! Post pics.

Here's one of mine from yesterday. I made about a dollar/pound on this load. Haha
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/IMG_3347_2.jpg

http://cargocycling.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/furnituretrike.jpg

It kinda looks like coffins up top. Now that's real dead weight! :)

As for having the load in front or in back, it's always easier to steer when the weight is over the rear axle. If you have 500 lbs up front it's an effort to change direction, especially on the trikes you've mentioned.

By the way, I saw that picture in a gallery of Chinese cargo bikes/trikes, and I noticed they had practically no reversed trikes there.

"...geared dolly with wheels big enough for the street..."

That's the benefit of the trailer. You can set your bike up with powerful brakes and low gears. You also end up with a bike that can be used for anything, rather than a dedicated load-carrying trike.

I've used a Bikes At Work trailer for years, to transport roughly 150 pounds of sand sculpture equipment about three miles to the beach. I pull it with a mountain bike, whose strong brakes mean I can stop when little kids run across the bike path. I have gears low enough to get up the hill going home when I'm tired from sculpting all day.

I looked into cargo bikes. They would not handle the kinds of long, bulky items I carry. If your loads are compact then the workbike might just do it.

Trailer control has never been a problem, even when I had a kid repeatedly pass me on a trike and then stop immediately in front of me. The BAW hitch is below the chainstay, near the axle. Towbar is a big 2" aluminum tube. Classic Iowa farm engineering, quite stout. Hitch assembly is a spherical rod-end bearing that takes a big hitchpin.

With a trailer you do need to plan ahead. You need more room to turn, and more distance to stop. On downhills you need to control your speed from the beginning. Width takes some getting used to, so take it slow at first. All of this would be true of a cargo bike, too; you have narrow tires and a big load, so it's not going to stop immediately.

By the way, I saw that picture in a gallery of Chinese cargo bikes/trikes, and I noticed they had practically no reversed trikes there.

Yeah, but they look even better than the Worksmans, longer and wider in the rear and with really nicely built flatbeds of various kinds. Bet they're cheap too.

Damn, looking at the gallery I feel like I could carry anything with one of those (and I mean ANYTHING!). Maybe if I got the Worksman Stretch Mover and built a nice wooden flatbed for it it would come close?

Ok I found a used 3-speed Worksman Mover and an "unused" chinese made flatbed trike like the one in the pictures. Both localish.

The chinese trike is more expensive (almost twice the price), probably singlespeed, and lord only knows what kind of brakes, but it has a really nice flatbed on leafsprings and is probably wider and longer than the worksman.

Which should I get? I'm scheduled to move 1500 pounds on the side next week.

Chucky, I think this photo shows the kind of weight you're talking about and why one needs more than a single gear.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3607089514_06d34a0854_b.jpg

Yep, granny gearing is the only way to make it possible to move more with the pedals than what you can move walking the bike/hand truck. Mechanical advantage, leverage and such.

Get that chinese trike. They have crazy big brake levers. Like two foot long lever mounted on the down tube, standard issue. "Even better than the Worksmans..." duh

I know you're sold on a trike, but for others reading this thread, Lord Chaos' post rings true based on my experiences with the trailer.

I hate hauling water. I do it, but it's stupid.

Yep, granny gearing is the only way to make it possible to move more with the pedals than what you can move walking the bike/hand truck. Mechanical advantage, leverage and such.

Get that chinese trike. They have crazy big brake levers. Like two foot long lever mounted on the down tube, standard issue. "Even better than the Worksmans..." duh

I know you're sold on a trike, but for others reading this thread, Lord Chaos' post rings true based on my experiences with the trailer.

And that's the rub because the Chinese trike is likely single speed with maybe no possibility to upgrade whereas the Worksman is 3-speed and easily upgradeable to more.

In Chinese trikes are apparently called "San Lur" and indeed there is a a long brake lever mounted to the downtube. I guess that's for the rear brake and I see some rods for the front brake, but no levers. Have you used brakes like this before? I'm afraid they won't be adequate. I fear the unknown:
122666

But, you gotta admit that this is about 100x more badass than a trailer:
122667

I really like the flat bed, but the Worksman has a known weight limit and good aftermarket support from the manufacturer (plus it's about half the price of the san lur). What should I do? :cry:

Those aren't brake rods, That's a suspension fork. Does the Worksman have a suspension fork? San Lur FTW.

I can haul more than you ever will with a Worksman trike, but you don't want to hear it, so get the Chinese bike and put a metric ton on there, haul it a mile and a half and put $2204 in your pocket. Easy money.

Get that chinese trike. They have crazy big brake levers. Like two foot long lever mounted on the down tube, standard issue. "Even better than the Worksmans..." duh


Don't know the answers to your questions, all I know is I'm not strong enough to rock a Worksman trike or a pedicab. I'm paid about 10 cents/pound, you're in a different league from me. I'm a filthy lycra wearing east coast hippie, so you might be right about who trailers are for.


I think the subtlety is completely lost on this one. Doesn't even seem to notice he's disparaging the people who are trying to give him honest answers to his question. His mind was made up before he asked, and isn't getting the confirmation he expected in response...




But, you gotta admit that this is about 100x more badass than a trailer

No. It isn't...

Those aren't brake rods, That's a suspension fork. Does the Worksman have a suspension fork? San Lur FTW.

I can haul more than you ever will with a Worksman trike, but you don't want to hear it, so get the Chinese bike and put a metric ton on there, haul it a mile and a half and put $2204 in your pocket. Easy money.

Now you're just screwing with me. Those are brake rods.

And how you gonna haul more than me when Bikes At Work doesn't even make a trailer that can bear over 300 pounds?

I'm leaning towards the Worksman because I know what capacity I'm getting, I know where to get parts, and I think that san lur is missing levers for the front brake rods.

Now you're just screwing with me. Those are brake rods.

No. They're not... (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&num=30&q=bicycle%20springer%20fork&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) ;)

I think the subtlety is completely lost on this one. Doesn't even seem to notice he's disparaging the people who are trying to give him honest answers to his question. His mind was made up before he asked, and isn't getting the confirmation he expected in response...

I'm getting exactly the response I expected. Complete denial over the facts by some self proclaimed experts with a sprinkling of help and understanding from the others. Typical fare for bikeforums. I've gone through it in almost every subforum and it always turns out the same. You in particular are right on cue with the "why did you bother asking" speech. Next step is for me to select the best option and then reap the benefits for years to come, benefits which stubborn self proclaimed experts will never know.

At least that's the way it usually goes, but there could be a surprise ending this time. Big thanks to StephenH for pointing out the cons of a Worksman front loader. :thumb:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/sonatageek/1952%20Schwinn%20Panther/1952SchwinnPanther010.jpg

Next step is for me to select the best option and then reap the benefits for years to come, benefits which stubborn self proclaimed experts will never know.

Good luck with that. http://www.morrisgarage.com/misc/stuff/thumbsup.gif

I can't tell that there's a springer fork on that Chinese trike. But if you'll look at those Chinese trikes on the website, most of them have truss-rod type forks. The extra rods are rigid, just for reinforcing the fork (and likely, for cosmetics as the customers expect them, too.)

Now you're just screwing with me. Those are brake rods.

And how you gonna haul more than me when Bikes At Work doesn't even make a trailer that can bear over 300 pounds?

I'm leaning towards the Worksman because I know what capacity I'm getting, I know where to get parts, and I think that san lur is missing levers for the front brake rods.

I have put 400 on there, I have 24 gears, I would drop you like you are tied to a post. Worksman trikes are made of pig iron. Look at the cargo space on a Worksman trike. Unless you are carrying gold or lead, you will reach the dimensional capacity way before you reach the weight capacity. Get the Chinese bike, that will carry the big pay load you are talking about.

Truss rods, that's what I meant. Does Worksman have truss rods? San Lur FTW.