Folding Bikes - Dahon Continues to Ship New 2008 Bikes with Recalled Parts?

I will update as this develops, but Dahon's response so far is ambiguous and unsatisfactory. It actually sounds to me like they are, in fact, still shipping bikes with the recalled handleposts on them, and expecting the purchaser to verify and repair after receipt.
_____________________________________

From: Contact [mailto:contact@dahon.com]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:51 PM
To: randya
Cc: 'ricky@bicyclesource.us'
Subject: RE: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

Dear randya

Thank you very much for contacting Dahon. I apologize for any inconvenience this is causing you. Dahon has found that the handlepost on certain of its 2008 model bikes was not manufactured to its rigorous specifications. Dahon California, Inc., in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, is voluntarily recalling and replacing, free of charge, the affected component on these bicycles. Information regarding this recall can be found by clicking the “Handlepost Recall Notice” tab on the home page of Dahon’s web site, www.dahon.com, or by calling Dahon California at (800) 442-3511. You can also access the press release issued jointly by Dahon and the CPSC at http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09214.html.

In the future, if there is anything Dahon can answer for you or help you with, please do not hesitate to contact Dahon again.

Best regards,　
Rick Fair　

........................................................
Rick Fair
Technical Support l Dahon
E-mail: rickfair@dahon.com
www.dahon.com


From: randya
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:32 PM
To: contact@dahon.com
Subject: Fwd: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

can you answer this question for me?

Thanks!

randya

Begin forwarded message:

From: ricky@bicyclesource.us
Date: October 19, 2009 3:27:59 PM PDT
To: randya
Subject: RE: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

Hi, Randy.

Dahon does drop shipping for these items directly from their headquarters. To be safe, I would contact Dahon directly. It's best to get a specific answer directly from the manufacturing source in this case. Please contact me once this is resolved (ricky@bicyclesource.us), as I was not made aware that anything had been recalled. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: randya
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:57pm
To: orders@bicyclesource.us
Subject: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

I just became aware that there is a recall on the handleposts on some
of these models, and I'm wondering if you know if the bikes I just
ordered have the recalled handleposts or not?

That is par for the course for Dahon's terrible customer and dealer service.

I will update as this develops, but Dahon's response so far is ambiguous and unsatisfactory. It actually sounds to me like they are, in fact, still shipping bikes with the recalled handleposts on them, and expecting the purchaser to verify and repair after receipt.

You obviously received a canned response, which is definitely unsatisfactory for such a serious safety issue, but what I'm really interested in hearing is whether the bikes are being shipped to customers with recalled parts or not.

If not then it's just a false alarm, bit if so then, in light of the canned response, I'd be totally pissed.

P.S. Kudos to the OP for pointing this out. He apparently sells Dahons on his site.

Whenever I read a message from Rick Fair on the Dahon forum I think HAL from "2001: A Space Odyssey".

Rick always responds and responds quickly but he has a knack for not quite answering the question or issue.

Are Dahon really still shipping 2008 bikes?
Just had a look at this site and they only list one 2008 bike (probably stock they couldn’t sell?) the rest are all 2009 bikes.
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/category/883/Dahon

Oh and using the name Dahon California could mislead people into thinking they are American made bikes :rolleyes:

P.S. Kudos to the OP for pointing this out. He apparently sells Dahons on his site.

Nevermind, I got mixed up reading the email headers. Randya is apparently a customer who inquired at bicyclesource.us, but he is not from bicyclesource.us


Oh and using the name Dahon California could mislead people into thinking they are American made bikes :rolleyes:

You mean like how Brompton boasting about they're bikes being made in England might mislead people into thinking the entire bike is made there and not just the frames? Are the titanium frames even made in England? :rolleyes:

You have a legitimate cue to chime in in feija's "Ugh" thread to tell us all that Bromptons hardly ever break due to their superior time tested design, so why are you posting this nonsense?

ok
hang on here ...... everybody can relax and sit back down. This is not a town hall meeting with paid yellers ... although in the recent past I am not sure about this anymore. ....................



NO DAHONS ARE SHIPPED FROM DAHON where the recall is not fixed.
Lets say it different. Dahon ships ONLY fixed bikes. Absolutely no exeption period. This since the day the recall was official ( last spring)

furthermore

All Dahon dealers had to sign off last spring that they will not under any circumstance sell any Dahon bike which is not fixed. They would loose the Dahon dealership priviliges if they do.

There are some 08 bikes in the pipleine still because Dahon choose to rather fix customer bikes on the road FIRST than Dealer inventory SECOND, and only than their own inventory they had ready to sell to the dealers. This has slowed down the sale of some 08 bikes, but it is the right thing to do. This has cost Dahon a lot of money in not being able to ship ordered bikes when the dealers needed them in a hurry. They lost sales for bikes in the Spring, and now have discounted those bikes to sell for a better price. This is a good thing as most 08 bikes are a real bargain for bikes where nothing is wrong with)

I do not understand Rick Fair why he doesnt come up with a very clear answer to the email. This is not a trick question or in any way shape or form questionable.

The only way a bike could be shipped with the old post is that a dealer has old stock and hasnt picked up the telephone and ordered new stems for the bikes and replaced them ( for what he is paid a good amount from Dahon, therefore its really worth his time to fix the bikes ) If that dealer really sends out non fixed bikes than he is a tool ... and he will jeorpardize his Dealer priviliges with Dahon.

ok ? do I have to add anything else to this ? Everybody understands ?
Even the Dahon bashers satisfied with the answer ?

Not every thing is perfect with Dahon, there is room for improvement but this is getting ridiculous !
No wonder I am one of the very few industry guys who keep coming back to this forum.

Thor

No wonder I am one of the very few industry guys who keep coming back to this forum.

I, for one, appreciate that you're here.

If what Thor says is correct then Dahon is doing the right thing.

But if their dealers and customer service people/bots can't answer basic questions about the recall then their dealer and customer service are, indeed, terrible.

Trying to get a meaningful answer from Dahon is futile.

Kam

I concur with Thor that it is extremely unlikely Dahon is shipping out a component that they know has a problem. More to the point, Dahon is not shipping 2008 models. If you buy an 08 model, it's one a retailer has left over.

Since you haven't received the bikes yet, there is no way to a) see if the serial #'s were included in the recall, or b) visually inspect the parts to see if they were the flawed ones or c) check with the retailer to see if the part was fixed. I.e. even if they didn't send a generic reply, without bikes (or at least the serial numbers) there is no way for them to know if your bikes were included in the recall, or if the retailer fixed the component.

I doubt you'd get a much clearer answer from any medium or large bike manufacturer, by the way.

Dealers still can purchase 08 models from Dahon.

to this :
quote:
If what Thor says is correct then Dahon is doing the right thing.
But if their dealers and customer service people/bots can't answer basic questions about the recall then their dealer and customer service are, indeed, terrible.
quote end

I know what is shipped from Dahon ... and what not ..... :-)


Customer reps or employees from any US company are sometimes all wound up not to give any answer which could get them or their employer into hot water .. that is very understandble. So they will never ever say never or ever about something they dont have direct control over ...

The question was ..if the dealer would send a non fixed 08 bike .... How can somebody from Dahon sitting at the headquarters in CA say that the dealer is doing or not ? This is not rocket science or anything like that .... and certainly no reason to belive that the customer service sucks. If an employee says that the dealer will not ship 08 bikes unfixed and the consumer receives such a bike than Dahon is liable and not only the dealer who messed up.... right ?

again.......... dont twist this and put words in my mouth

Thor

...
From: ricky@bicyclesource.us
Date: October 19, 2009 3:27:59 PM PDT
To: randya
Subject: RE: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

Hi, Randy.

Dahon does drop shipping for these items directly from their headquarters. To be safe, I would contact Dahon directly. It's best to get a specific answer directly from the manufacturing source in this case. Please contact me once this is resolved (ricky@bicyclesource.us), as I was not made aware that anything had been recalled. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: randya
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:57pm
To: orders@bicyclesource.us
Subject: just ordered two '08 dahon curve d3's, I'm wondering if they have the recalled handleposts or not?

I just became aware that there is a recall on the handleposts on some
of these models, and I'm wondering if you know if the bikes I just
ordered have the recalled handleposts or not?

RandyA - Keep in mind that you bought a Dahon product from a Dahon dealer. AFAIK, Dahon does not sell its products directly to retail customers in the USA. I am pretty sure Dahon doesn't drop ship any bikes to retail customers --- the dealer has them drop shipped. I would be most perturbed with the dealer's response. That response appears to be incorrect and irresponsible. If either of your bikes arrive with the recalled handle post it seems to me that BicycleSource.US is the one responsible for your inconvenience. Based on what I have read, Dahon has procedures in place to avoid this problem. The dealer has chosen not to follow those procedures.:mad: Ricky at BicycleSource.US should not be getting any bonus this month. :notamused:

To be clear - since the announcement of the recall in May 2009, Dahon has not shipped and will not ship any bikes affected by the recall unless they've been retrofitted (repaired).

Thanks,

Steve Boyd
Director of Operations - North America

I have a feeling Dahon may be looking into this?

Thank you for the very clear response, Steve Boyd, and welcome to BF.

I concur with Thor that it is extremely unlikely Dahon is shipping out a component that they know has a problem. More to the point, Dahon is not shipping 2008 models. If you buy an 08 model, it's one a retailer has left over.

Since you haven't received the bikes yet, there is no way to a) see if the serial #'s were included in the recall, or b) visually inspect the parts to see if they were the flawed ones or c) check with the retailer to see if the part was fixed. I.e. even if they didn't send a generic reply, without bikes (or at least the serial numbers) there is no way for them to know if your bikes were included in the recall, or if the retailer fixed the component.

I doubt you'd get a much clearer answer from any medium or large bike manufacturer, by the way.

read the entire email string. the internet seller says the bikes are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer - Dahon - and they were advertised as 2008 models.

Dahon is not stating that they have fixed the bikes before shipping, they are stating that it is up to the customer to verify whether or not they have been fixed, upon receipt.

edit - Steve Boyd's post above is more direct and to the point, thanks Steve!

I guess I will still have to check and verify upon receipt though, as I'm still a bit confused about where the bikes are coming from and who has done what to verify that the necessary repairs, if any have been made.

again ...

Dahon does NOT ship any bikes which are not fixed.
If they are dropshipped, direct shipped, shipped by the company boss, shipped by the secretary, shipped by me, it makes NO DIFFERENCE
ALL DAHON bikes are shipped fixed ... no exception

thor

It's only a statistical sample of two, but in the last 4 months I purchased two 2008 Dahon's via the internet from a Dahon dealer. Both came with the "R" stamped on the handle post. I believe this indicated the bike had been retrofitted with the new post.

Show of hands: how many posters work for Dahon competitors?

read the entire email string. the internet seller says the bikes are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer - Dahon - and they were advertised as 2008 models. ...
I believe the Internet seller is incorrect. His statment that he was unaware of the recall indicates that he is not knowledgable about Dahon products. I think you should be skeptical of the infomation he provides.

Show of hands: how many posters work for Dahon competitors?

I don't.

Kam

Here's the latest. I really appreciate that Steve took the time to correct the ambiguity of the original response. I am satisfied that I won't have to deal with the recall issues, but just a little disappointed that I'll probably get bikes with SRAM hub gearing instead of the Sturmey Archer hubs I originally expected, 'cause I've had a bike with an SA SRF3 hub that I really liked, but have had some problems with a SRAM spectroP5 hub...I suppose that makes me one of those people who are never satisfied, or maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut in the first place...

:o
___________________________

Hi Randy,

I’m in receipt of your message regarding the Curve bicycles you just ordered. Your order is actually in process and scheduled to ship today and we are shipping to you our current models which are NOT affected by the recall.

At no time are we shipping any bikes affected by the recall unless they’ve been retrofitted (fixed).

Thanks for choosing Dahon and enjoy your bikes!

Best,

Steve Boyd
Director of Operations | North America

Here's the latest. I really appreciate that Steve took the time to correct the ambiguity of the original response. ...
___________________________

Hi Randy,

... Your order is actually in process and scheduled to ship today and we are shipping to you our current models which are NOT affected by the recall. ...

Best,

Steve Boyd
Director of Operations | North America
Hmmm. One might infer from Steve Boyd's statement that Dahon is involved in shipping directly to retail customers. :o

I don't recall any reliability difference between the 2008 SA and SRAM three speed hubs. I thought that the gearing was almost identical too. I'm curious ... why would you care?

hehe Randy ....
I like the new hub better ...
I do have a 3 speed Curve with the SA hub, with very little miles on it. I trade it with ya if you like ..

thor

like I said, I've had some trouble with a SRAM Spectro P5 hub in the past, and prefer the SA hub, I've already ridden an SA SRF3 hard with no problems, it is very similar to the AW model, which has a proven track record.

There are also some reported problems with SRAM iMotion 3-speed hubs, and potential parts issues with the SRAM T3 hubs, SRAM parts are not that easy to obtain in the US, see link below.

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/t3-sram/

The SRAM and Shimano three speed hubs are slightly wider range than the Sturmey AW or SBR (~36% vs. 33% between gears); all are direct drive in second gear (see Harris gear calculator below)

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html

Surprisingly, a Sturmey SRF3 hub seems to be running only 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a SRAM Spectro T3

At any rate, either will probably work fine.

like I said, I've had some trouble with a SRAM Spectro P5 hub in the past, and prefer the SA hub, I've already ridden an SA SRF3 hard with no problems, it is very similar to the AW model, which has a proven track record.

There are also some reported problems with SRAM iMotion 3-speed hubs, and potential parts issues with the SRAM T3 hubs, SRAM parts are not that easy to obtain in the US, see link below.

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/t3-sram/

The SRAM and Shimano three speed hubs are slightly wider range than the Sturmey AW or SBR (~36% vs. 33% between gears); all are direct drive in second gear (see Harris gear calculator below)

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html

Surprisingly, a Sturmey SRF3 hub seems to be running only 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a SRAM Spectro T3

At any rate, either will probably work fine.

Are SA parts easier to get in the US? (I have no idea) I read how difficult it was for a few Bike Friday folks to get parts for the SRAM DD from anyone other than Bike Friday.

Once, I looked at picking up an internal hub for a bud and was suprised at the price differential between SA versus alternative brands. They are competitive.