Advocacy & Safety - Toe clip safety?

Not 20 minutes ago I returned from the hardware store. I rode an old Raleigh Record that I'd made into a single-speed. No fenders, as plain as can be with platform pedals. I wear sandals 400 days out of the year and that is what I had on. Got spoken to by a younger guy about my choice of footwear and not having rat traps. (I like the old term: rat traps) I figured he must be a tourist by his lack of a tan and the fact that NOBODY uses rat traps down here. He seemed indignant that I didn't care. Said I could lose a toe at best or a foot at worse. He said that, "You could slid forward and lose a foot." Anyone ever hear of somebody loosing a foot bicycling? Me neither, so I asked this guy who he knew who'd lost a foot. This seemed to piss him off a bit. Now I've heard of losing weight, or losing your way, but a foot? I love the people who look out for me. They're so earnest it's heart-wrenching to watch. But a foot. I still can't get over that.

Rat traps are not toe clips. Rat trap is the pedal.

I've had toe clip overlap result in me falling over, but never (before I had toe clips) had my foot slip forward and into the wheel.

Rat traps are not toe clips. Rat trap is the pedal.

I've had toe clip overlap result in me falling over, but never (before I had toe clips) had my foot slip forward and into the wheel.

Probably my misuse of term. I always heard the old leather strap and metal portion of the pedal assembly that goes over your foot called a rat trap. (it traps your foot) I've also heard this same device refered to as a toe clip. In my mind they were the same thing. This guy called the cage over the foot "toe clips". In my mind that was a rat trap. Have I confused you even more now than I've confused myself? Let's not get started with modern LOOK type toe clips. Crap, there I've done it.

Shall continue looking for that lost foot.

You can get spd sandals.....
http://brandscycle.com/product/shimano-sh-sd65-spd-sandals-23544-1.htm#

match with a combo platform/spd pedal...and you are modern styling.

or more likely...... you ignore the guy and keep going what you are using 400 days year

Key West! As in Florida the flat?

As in you are mainly cruising at a slow to comfortable pace?

In any case the guy is out of line and flat out wrong except for perhaps one unusual case.

I swear by clipless systems where the foot is firmly attached to the pedal. It may have saved me from serious injury at least 3 times, but all 3 were on significant downhills where I had an unexpected hazard and if my foot came off the pedal and hit ground I could ahve gone doen and been seriously injured. (In one case a lady in a group that came through Sepulveda pass about 45 minutes after I did was not so lucky and ended up with a ruptured spleen and broken collarbone).

BUT again all mine were downhill at speed, the slowest at least 25 MPH. For cruisingthe beach the rules change as I see it. Far more cases where sand or tourists create a situation where a foot coming down is a good thing that prevents a fall.

Now I would not advise the kind os sandal often called Jap Flaps where there is a ride coming up between the big toe and the one next to it. I'd feel perfectly fine with the kind I wear that are a bit more like classic Roman Sandals. That toes can be seen is a minor consideration. Any sandal that stays firmly on the feet seems fine for most riding. (Though I would not want to try a century in sandals).

... spoken to by a younger guy about my choice of footwear and not having rat traps... Said I could lose a toe at best or a foot at worse. He said that, "You could slid forward and lose a foot." Anyone ever hear of somebody loosing a foot bicycling?

Wow, talk about a worrier.

First off, when I grew up we called a rat trap on of those racks on the back of the bike with a spring loaded "trap" a rat trap

http://www.theoldbicycleshowroom.co.uk/ekmps/shops/theoldbicycle/images/rear-carrier-for-vintage-bicycles-black-for-26-inch-wheels-448-p.jpg

the name came from the carriers resemblance to an actual trap for a rat

http://static.open.salon.com/files/rattrap1254520904.jpg

I guess that was a regional thing.

I googled rat trap bicycle and, sure enough, there were pedals called rat traps

http://s.ecrater.com/stores/51298/4868946ce6100_51298n.jpg

I guess this guy was talking about the lack of toe clips

http://www.pricepoint.com/images/styleImages/D_240%20WELR18.jpg

but to say that a foot could slip off the front without the clip comes right out of left field.

I rode with clips cinched up tight with slotted cleats on the bottom of my shoes for 10 years before I went clipless.

http://tenerife-training.net/Tenerife-News-Cycling-Blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/look-delta-traditional-black-pedals.jpg

Fell over more than a few times with the toe clips strapped in. Couldn't get my feet out. It was great the first time I started to go down with the clipless. Feet came straight out, I didn't even have to try to remove them from the pedals.

After clipless were out for a few years, a younger guy who had never used clips seemed to be amazed I used them for so long. He called them "death cleats"

I'd never heard of toe clips being recommended for safety. It was all about performance and efficiency.

You can get spd sandals.....
http://brandscycle.com/product/shimano-sh-sd65-spd-sandals-23544-1.htm#

match with a combo platform/spd pedal...and you are modern styling.

or more likely...... you ignore the guy and keep going what you are using 400 days year

squirtdad, you know me too well. Those sandals you highlighted have potential, but appearing like a bum and not buying every piece of cycling related aftermarket crap is sort of a religion with me. I do find the stuff interesting and even marvel at engineer's imaginations. Still, I have an image to maintain down here.

generally I don't worry about it, but I remember someone scraping up the back of their calf pretty good when they slipped off the pedals. I know someone that rides long distance with sandals and regular pedals year-round. I think it's ridiculous to criticize someone's choice of pedals. Personally, I need toe clips to feel secure. However, I recognize that's not the way a lot of people feel.

closetbiker: I can see from your pictures that I'm the Homer (stupid guy) in this family. I did not know rat trap was a pedal type. I called the whole thing (clips and all) a rat trap.

Of course the next guy who comes onboard my sailboat and grabs a "rope" will find a kinder and gentler me - it's a "line" stupid!

My aunt lost her big toe to her bike chain! It's not a foot, but it's enough!

Either riding in sandals or barefoot, not sure which -- her foot got into the chain and I assume went around the chainring and it cut her big toe completely off.

Granted, she was a kid at the time, so I'm guessing this was at least 50 years ago, but it hasn't grown back yet!

squirtdad, you know me too well. Those sandals you highlighted have potential, but appearing like a bum and not buying every piece of cycling related aftermarket crap is sort of a religion with me. I do find the stuff interesting and even marvel at engineer's imaginations. Still, I have an image to maintain down here.


Its pretty clear (to me anyway) how you are trying to live. Not that you need my approval, but I love the idea of a dude tooling around in Key West in sandals. If it can't be me, then I am glad its you. Keep your platform pedals and keep the dream alive for the rest of us.

j

p.s., in an utterly unrelated note, cages or clips are awesome.

Growing up I always related rat traps to the metal pedal.
I lost a big chunk of skin from my heel in the front spokes one time as a kid, but after all, I was riding barefoot on my brother's handlebars and my foot slipped off the front axle bolt.:wtf:

Toee clips keep your feet on the pedals, especially when going over bumps or rough road surfaces. They also allow you to ride waaay better because you don't have to use muscles just to keep your feet in contact with the pedals as you bring them up around the back. Keeping your feet on the pedals is important when riding in traffic so you don't loose it and cause damage to someone's car as your body suddenly goes in front of it. Get the picture? I hope you step up and take full responsibility if that ever happens.

Riding in sandals is foolish, but that's your choice and just my opinion. The nanny waving their finger at you, however well intentioned, deserves another finger to be waved in her face.

The guy was just trying to do you a favour and prevent a potential injury. And he's right (sort of). I hope you thanked him for his concern, even if it was more advice than you were interested in hearing.

One of my cycling friends wore sandals sometimes, but his foot slipped off once and kicked the front wheel, catching his toes in the spokes. He didn't lose any body parts, but he did have a spectacular crash, which could have been fatal if there'd been traffic nearby to run him over. He doesn't wear sandals any more on his bike. Of course, being a fast roadie guy (who would normally be clipped in), he was probably pedalling pretty fast, not just cruising. Wear sandals at your own risk. I wear them all the time, but don't pedal too hard when I do.

Riding in sandals is foolish, but that's your choice and just my opinion. The nanny waving their finger at you, however well intentioned, deserves another finger to be waved in his face.

+1.

-Kurt

Sandals all year long. Ah.

It's possible your tourist rides a low recumbent trike with the crossbar sitting there to sweep an unsecured foot into the pavement and is prone to both over generalization and unsolicited advice.

Its pretty clear (to me anyway) how you are trying to live. Not that you need my approval, but I love the idea of a dude tooling around in Key West in sandals. If it can't be me, then I am glad its you. Keep your platform pedals and keep the dream alive for the rest of us.

j

p.s., in an utterly unrelated note, cages or clips are awesome.

I've always dug Billy Jack movies.

The guy was just trying to do you a favour and prevent a potential injury. And he's right (sort of). I hope you thanked him for his concern, even if it was more advice than you were interested in hearing.

One of my cycling friends wore sandals sometimes, but his foot slipped off once and kicked the front wheel, catching his toes in the spokes. He didn't lose any body parts, but he did have a spectacular crash, which could have been fatal if there'd been traffic nearby to run him over. He doesn't wear sandals any more on his bike. Of course, being a fast roadie guy (who would normally be clipped in), he was probably pedalling pretty fast, not just cruising. Wear sandals at your own risk. I wear them all the time, but don't pedal too hard when I do.

I never get uppity or angry with this kind of guy. It's not my style and does no good. I always play Mickey-the-Dunce and stare at these types with an open mouth and look of wonder. I ask a few stupid questions so that the more more clever tormentor eventually "gets it", and the dummer ones go off feeling superior in ways only they can appreciate. Daddy always said to placate the angry, the righteous, and the stupid. It's good advice.

Sandals all year long. Ah.

It's possible your tourist rides a low recumbent trike with the crossbar sitting there to sweep an unsecured foot into the pavement and is prone to both over generalization and unsolicited advice.

No, this guy was on a Cannondale road bike. He had on every imaginable element of riding gear. His bike was setup for touring and it looked like a Grand Canyon mule with all the bags and junk. He had a bluetooth commo thing in his ear, lights and bells and mirrors. He was decked out. I think my spartan specter offended him on a viseral level. Judging by his blond hair and albino skin, I pegged him for a Minnesota tourist experiencing real sun for the first time.

If I were you I'd get some barefoot pedals and ditch the sandals.

If I were you I'd get some barefoot pedals and ditch the sandals.

Lester, I walk around barefoot so much that I have pretty tough feet. I can ride all of my pedal types (and do) with no discomfort barefoot. Even the rat trap type with the metal edges. Most people never go barefoot long enough to develop that kind of sole. (3rd world folks all over the globe do.) I do not have to work and so I never dress up and never wear shoes. But for me to come on a bike forum and proclaim my barefoot bicycling would be akin to admitting a fondness for enemas. I reveal this little nugget to you in this one passage, but not in a main thread. That would truly be crazy.

Gnarliest feet I ever saw belonged to Artis the Spoonman. That dude would walk all over Seattle in bare feet and had some serious sole goin' on.

My oldest sister growin up once took a splinter in her bare foot from the deck of our family's wooden sailboat. It was about 2" long X a quarter inch. No pain, no blood. My dad cut it out with a carpet knife.

The guy was just trying to do you a favour and prevent a potential injury. And he's right (sort of). I hope you thanked him for his concern, even if it was more advice than you were interested in hearing.

One of my cycling friends wore sandals sometimes, but his foot slipped off once and kicked the front wheel, catching his toes in the spokes. He didn't lose any body parts, but he did have a spectacular crash, which could have been fatal if there'd been traffic nearby to run him over. He doesn't wear sandals any more on his bike. Of course, being a fast roadie guy (who would normally be clipped in), he was probably pedalling pretty fast, not just cruising. Wear sandals at your own risk. I wear them all the time, but don't pedal too hard when I do.

Yeah, that guy was off his rocker. At best, lose a toe? Lose a foot?

There can always be injuries but platforms on a bike are just as safe as anything else, and that's pretty safe.

I guess you could bang up your toenails, worse case chew your foot up a little on a sprocket, but lose an entire toe?? Well, it is your toe, and you are an adult, and it isn't as if the public would have to spend $100,000 on your care like it might with a head injury.
Your foot, your problem.
Now the enemas-different story! Just kidding of course.

I have used half clips for 30 years(some people call them mountain clips,I think). I don't use the current type foot bindings because I wear whatever shoe I want to wear when I ride.I frequently walk after when I get where I'm going, so I want to wear regular shoes, not special shoes.
Half clips are ok-easy to get your feet out of.Old school full toe clips could be tough to get your foot out of(as you tumbled to the side). They were kinda pretty-shiny chrome, nice leather etc.
Charlie
PS Like others said-rat trap pedals were the pedal you found on most cheap bikes 30 years ago.Lots of them also had the clunky rubber pedals also.The rat traps chewed up your shins-sharp little teeth.