Road Cycling - LBS vs Internet

Hey everyone,

looking for a new bike and I've narrowed it down to two. The only thing is its been narrowed down to a Trek 1500 from the LBS or a Motobecane Grand Sprint from Bikes Direct. What should I do? Are there any other bikes I should look into? Any help would be appreciated.

Buy the one you can't see, touch or try out before you your pay money for. Buy from the internet where what you get may not fit or even function properly since it is coming to you sight unseen.

I don't know anything about the Motobecane geometry but I ride a 56 frame almost always. I tried out a Felt F65 once in a 58 frame. It fit me like a glove the 56 was too small. I would have mail ordered a 56 if I bought stuff sight unseen.

Good Luck

Well for what it's worth, I ordered a bike yesterday from the LBS and paid in full and I've yet to touch, try out, fit, etc on it. ;)

Granted I'm sure not only will I like the bike, but the LBS will take care of me if it's just not working out. Still though it seems like you rairly find exactly what you are looking for in stock at a LBS.

That is too bad. The shop I go to carries Trek, Gary Fisher, Lemond, Felt, Cannondale and few more expensive brands and some recumbent stuff. They try to carry the complete line of the stuff I'm always looking at. Even if they didn't have the size I needed in a certain model they usually a one in a different size. We have a great shop. Only problem is it is way too busy since the Tour de France thingy. Everybody seems to want to buy a bike now. :)

You can't test ride a bike online

I'm not in an area where the the LBS can afford to keep several models & several sizes in stock. If you don't like the ride or the fit, do you think they'd take a return? That's my only problem with going with the "local" LBS. Because of this, we just made a 4 hour trip (1 way) soley to test ride different models of bikes.

i was at the local trek store and they didn't have the bike in the size i wanted (2100/2200/2300). so, they stuck me on a 5200 as the frames were pretty similar and fitted me on that, then let me have a spin on the 2200 to get a feel for the ride and shifting and other details for 20 min or so. they went ahead and ordered it and still allowed me to back off on my decision if it came in, they assembled it and i didn't like it (no deposit taken either).

it arrived a few days later and after being refit on the 2200, and taking it for a spin, i enjoyed it and ended up buying it. the after purchase care has been extraordinary. i had a few problems a few days later, and brought it in. they were busy, but fixed the problem on the spot. bought a pair of shoes for the bike and they went ahead and refitted me again as the sole thickness was different by a huge margin. also recieved a courtesy call this morning saying that i should go ahead and bring the bike back in once i hit the 50-100mi. mark after everything's stretched out and settled in (i guess the brake and shifter cables and such). no charge. i basically have a lifetime fitment for the life of the bike regardless of what components i decide to purchase (seat/pedals/shoes/handlebar stay/etc) free of charge, free bi-yearly or yearly (i forget) maintenance for the life of the bike, and made a couple of friends there as well. something i would have never had with an internet bike...

so...my opinion? LBS all the way. I'd rather pay a few dollars extra for the after sales care and fitting than just getting a bike and nothing else from a net shop.

melloboy

Kris,

Forgive my curt friends for their smarty pants answers. This question comes up often. The general consensus is the LBS is the best route to go for a first road bike. Too many variables with on-line purchases.

Look at all road bikes in your price range from all the major manufatures (Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale, Bianchi, and the like). Test ride as many as possible and pick the one that fits and feels best. Once you buy on-line, thats it. If you screw it up, you will regret it.

Peace,

ehenz

Hey everyone,

looking for a new bike and I've narrowed it down to two. The only thing is its been narrowed down to a Trek 1500 from the LBS or a Motobecane Grand Sprint from Bikes Direct. What should I do? Are there any other bikes I should look into? Any help would be appreciated.

The main reason that the Motobecanes are sold online is that this brand isn't strong enough to make it onto enough bike shop floors. This brand hit its heights in the early 1980's and has been on a downward spiral since then. This should raise a warning flag. In the future, if you need warranty service,
it will be difficult to do online assuming that the company still exists.

Thanks to everyone for all of your help. Just a quick follow-up, will there be anything in need of replacment on my Trek 1500 when i get it? Any help is appreciated.

saddle? :)

melloboy

Kris

Buying online can be safe and a good way to go if.

You know exactly what you want and why you want it.

If there is any doubt in you mind about anything I suggest the lbs route.

I'm lucky in that I have several LBS near me to try out new stuff. Having said that, I don't think I'd buy a full bike online even if I didn't have the local stores. For the money a bike costs, I'd get in my car and happily drive 100 miles to a shop that carried a line that I could test out. Maybe that's just me though - I drive 100 miles a day to/from work so I'm used to it.

Hey everyone,

looking for a new bike and I've narrowed it down to two. The only thing is its been narrowed down to a Trek 1500 from the LBS or a Motobecane Grand Sprint from Bikes Direct. What should I do? Are there any other bikes I should look into? Any help would be appreciated.

Kris,
I purchased my first road bike online from bikesdirect. I bought a Mercier. It has the same components,
Aluminum frame, Shimano Tiagra/105/Ultegra drivetrain/brakes,
as many of the LBS name brand taiwanese bikes. I saved myself 150.00 dollars over the
best price of 3 shops in my area. Some
of the bikes had less desirable components as well.
I paid 625.00 flat. 30.00 more to have
the final assy' and adjustments done. 655 total. I thought it was a good deal.

I have bought many road bikes over the years and have yet to "test ride" the bike. Most high end frames are not going to be built and waiting in the inventory for a buyer. Further most high end frames each buyer is going to want very specific equipment on the frame when its built. Also I take a larger frame size so a LBS isn't going to have a $4k plus bike built hoping someone will buy it. With that said I have never ordered one on line and I doubt I would. I'm less interested in saving money and more interested in doing business with a LBS that will service my purchase. If I have a problem I know they will step up to the plate and make it right. Case in point my last road bike I ordered from a store 3 hours drive from my home. When it arrived they built the bike to the exact specifications I requested. But having never seen the exact frame color in person only in a brochure when I saw it live I was shocked. I couldn't ride the ugly off the bike. The owner of the LBS realized my dislike of the frame and quickly offered to order another color frame and rebuild the bike. I hade to wait for another frame to arrive from Spain but when it did and they built it and I returned for delivery I was very pleased. Had I done this on line I would now be riding the ugly frame. A good quality store that cares about the client will well be worth the money everytime.

Kris,

Forgive my curt friends for their smarty pants answers. This question comes up often. The general consensus is the LBS is the best route to go for a first road bike. Too many variables with on-line purchases.

Look at all road bikes in your price range from all the major manufatures (Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale, Bianchi, and the like). Test ride as many as possible and pick the one that fits and feels best. Once you buy on-line, thats it. If you screw it up, you will regret it.

Peace,

ehenz
I agree. The safest bet is to buy from the LBS for your 1st bike. This will allow you to 1) establish a realationship with your LBS (you will need them in the future), 2) Get fitted appropriately for the bike you are about to order or buy, 3) If the bike is in stock you can try it out, 3) If any problems with the bike and you have a place to go, 4) Your 1st bike probably won't be your last. Once you've learned more about cycling and what you may want in the future, then you might venture into an internet bike. Good luck.

What I find interesting is the way people refer or say, how you 'need' the LBS, and how its almost disrespectful not to buy from the LBS. What? Are the LBS
like the bicycling Mafia? For *insert expletive* sakes, just because the LBS exists
means you have to buy from there? What kind of logic is that? Sure its nice to do business with the local shop, pump some dollars back into your community,
but its not the be all to end all folks. If the LBS cannot somewhat compete with
online businesses, guess what? Too bad. There are thousands of businesses
online all over the world, some have brick & mortor stores as well, and commerce seems to thrive very well in spite of the "god aweful" internet discount stores...

I use my local shop for tune-ups, and certain parts, and I don't get any attitude
because I didn't buy it there. If I did, I would tell them straight out, it is poor customer relations and poor business skills to discourage any customer from
purchasing anything from the shop. A customer is a customer doesn't matter if you spend 20 bucks or 2000 the shop is making a sale. Eventually bikes sold on the internet will become even more prevelant and more popular as cycling grows
and the LBS will have to deal with that aspect, whether they like it or not.
I realize that some don't like that line of thinking, but as long as there
are many choices and competition for consumer dollars, a market will be created and usually thrive.

Amen dc70...I LOVE to put $ back in my community; but Ilove keeping it in my POCKET even more!!!

I couldn't agree with you more, dc70. I've had more grief with my local bike shops whining about the internet when I purchase items on-line, yet they won't budge on prices because they may go out of business. Guess what, times change, and so do business' who are willing to adapt to new markets, opportunities, strategies, and consumer choices. I'll choose the internet everytime when I can save 40-50% over list price...we're talking cycling products here, not child care. Just my .2 cents.

certain things are cheaper at my bike shop. others aint. if i'm buying something like a frame or wheels.. pretty much anything i think the bike shop may be able to get cheaper, i go to it. little things i get online because it take me FAR less time. (busses'r slow)

My LBS has the same prices on all the parts I've yet to buy as Performance/Nashbar/Supergo minus the shipping so it is actually cheaper; however there bikes are very expensive.They have no hassle returns what so ever and it's only a bike ride away. Having said that I ordered my bike frame online because I knew exactlly what I wanted and got a good price on it and it fits and feels great. Test riding a bike to see how it fells is BS. You need 500 miles on the bike to know how it feels not a 20 minute ride around a parking lot or a local neighborhood. You need to do your homework and figure out what frame and components you need and put them together for a great bike. Most LBS's don't really fit you to a bike anyway.

I agree. The safest bet is to buy from the LBS for your 1st bike. This will allow you to 1) establish a realationship with your LBS (you will need them in the future), 2) Get fitted appropriately for the bike you are about to order or buy, 3) If the bike is in stock you can try it out, 3) If any problems with the bike and you have a place to go, 4) Your 1st bike probably won't be your last. Once you've learned more about cycling and what you may want in the future, then you might venture into an internet bike. Good luck.

I agree, I just bought my first bike. I think the service, fitting, and help is worth extra effort, time and money for a newbie. No questions asked, a new relationship is established.

I will say that I shopped several Specialized and Trek dealers before deciding which one to buy from. Final decision was actually the last shop I went in (8 total). Owner spent over an hour with me and went over everything. Couldn't have asked for a better shop.

I also wanted to reply to dc70 thoughts. I agree with you that a smarter shopper/consumer is better by far.
Given the information, on the forums, you can't always decide if a newbie has done the homework needed to buy a bike online. I think a fair assumption is to say a LBS, in fairness to the newbie buyer as well as the LBS, would be a better option. Like other have said, leave the internet buying till later when experience and knowledge is far greater than with a first bike purchase.

Crooscut,
Yes, I tend to agree that some newcomers may be very unfamiliar with any aspect of cycling
and the LBS may be a better choice. It certainly is a preference and individual choice.

detjr_2000,
Me too!

Brenda,
common sense! indeed.

Some questions need to be asked. Kris are you a pretty good wrench? Do you have a decent selection of tools? As a novice buying a bike online can be iffy. Does the fork come cut down? Is the bike basically "tuned" up? If you buy a bike on line and then take it to your LBS they will nail you on the set up. I know my best friend owned a bike shop for years and he really stuck it to the guys who bought their bikes from mail order.

I buy some things off the net but it's mainly brands that my LBS doesn't carry, Castelli clothing for example. There is a very strong argument to made that if we don't support our LBS then they will eventually go under. The thing I love about my LBS is that I walk in the door and the owner knows my name. I go back to the service dpt and the head mechanic knows my name. If I need something and it's the night before a big ride they will get it fixed right then and there. You can't put a $$$$ figure on that.

dc70,
Yes personal preference and choice is exactly right. We can only advise as to what we are comfortable with and our experiences.

So Kris did you buy the 1500?

I'm waiting at the moment because the owner offered me a job there in January so I'll be able to save so $$$ if i have some patience (believe me its hard)

I'm waiting at the moment because the owner offered me a job there in January so I'll be able to save so $$$ if i have some patience (believe me its hard)


So buy the bike and ride the remaining part of the year and then sell it in the spring when everyone is looking. You should be able to sell if (provided you keep it up) for a decent amount.

Some questions need to be asked. Kris are you a pretty good wrench? Do you have a decent selection of tools? As a novice buying a bike online can be iffy. Does the fork come cut down? Is the bike basically "tuned" up? If you buy a bike on line and then take it to your LBS they will nail you on the set up. I know my best friend owned a bike shop for years and he really stuck it to the guys who bought their bikes from mail order.

I buy some things off the net but it's mainly brands that my LBS doesn't carry, Castelli clothing for example. There is a very strong argument to made that if we don't support our LBS then they will eventually go under. The thing I love about my LBS is that I walk in the door and the owner knows my name. I go back to the service dpt and the head mechanic knows my name. If I need something and it's the night before a big ride they will get it fixed right then and there. You can't put a $$$$ figure on that.

I take exception to that attitude, especially shop owners who purposely stick it to customers who purchased their bikes online. That, imo, is a lousy business practice, and eventually, when online
buying becomes even more prevelent, shops such as those will likely go out of business, unless they adapt. I would think that LBS's have a very small margin of profit on the bikes they sell, the bulk of their income is probably earned through parts and service. So, taking that attitude is simply spiteful. I can understand that, from a business perspective being undercut sucks.

But, it is a reality that shops have to deal with, and the ones who deal with it best will survive...the others may not. If I needed quick right there and then service, I would be willing to pay extra for it,
so why wouldn't the shop take advantage of that instead? Instead of crying and whinning about how "some jerk didn't buy his ride from me..." so I will screw him on anything else he or she wants or needs when he or she decides to SPEND their dollars at my shop...

Like I said before, almost every type of business that exists today, has to deal with the same
problem of internet sales. So why are the bike shops any different? They are not, but they
have this elitist and decidedly smug attitude that they are above this fact of commerce.
Which amazes me, really it does. I will probably never buy my next bike or the next one, etc
from a LBS, choosing instead to buy online, either used or new. Why shouldn't I get the best deal for my money?

There are several shops in my area, after I checked them all out, I found one that is freindly
and doesn't mind doing business with someone who bought their bike online.
The remainder of the shops I perused seemed to be a bit stand-off'ish about it,
so they won't be getting any business from me, period. The dollar speaks louder
than anything you can say or write, and as an educated consumer I have the right to
seek out the best deal for my dollars. Its a shame that most shops don't see it that way.

If I were to buy on line, I would do it through reputable sites such as Excel Sports or Coloradao Cyclist, both from Boulder, CO. Their sales staff are very good and will have you go measure your self prior to selling you the frame size, stem, etc. The best approach would be to spend the $100 for a fit kit, know your size exactly, then go and order over the phone from the on line shop. I bought a Merlin from Excel sports and it fits very well and rides like a Merlin.

Do you own a bike now that fits properly? If so, measure it closely or check the specs.

The comment about riding the bike from the LBS should not be discounted though. Head tube angles, fork trail, bottom bracket height are the less apparent areas that will also affect how the bike rides, corners, etc.

It's your decision, but based on the bikes that you are speaking of, you may be a little new to this (excuse me if I am wrong, no insult intended). Given that, spend time with a good bike shop owner / sales person.

I'm willing to pay for the service I get at one shop in NYC (Toga Bikes), and not so much so for the service at the place that's closest physically to me (Sid's Bikes).

I think it really depends on the shop.

-s

The LBS vs On-line argument facinates me. My town has 2 LBS and the nearest city about 5. What earthly difference will it make to the other 6 stores if I purchase from one of the others or on-line?

If I've just moved into town and bought my ride in another city or country, does my LBS even need to know tis information before they decide whetehr or not to sell me a tube or a tool?

In general, I believe I am asking for, receiving and paying for what I get regardless of the venue. When I shop, or simply visit my favorite local LBS, I don't start my conversation with a list of the clothes, shoes, or accessories which I did not purchase there. Neither when I shop at Sears do I make a point, nor do they ask where I purchased my underwear. In short, from purchase to purchase, who really cares?

My LBS should be concerned about appealing to me through marketing to make my next service or goods purchase from them. If I need a bottle of oil, they sell me one. If I need a new bike, they sell me one.

Economic choices are made based on perceived value of the entire transaction; price, service, convenience, etc. My preference is to patronize my local favorite LBS as much as possible. They virtually always are given the opportunity to cater to my needs. Sometimes they do. Other times they don't.

Some of the positions argued in these fora in favor of LBS suggest I should somehow feel guilty should I receive a gift from someone of cycling apparel or accessories which wasn't purchased at some LBS to which I owe my fealty. It's as though one should never appear in the LBS with anything related to bicycles that wasn't purchased in that shop.

Goods that I purchase in my LBS neither helps nor hurts your favorite shop.

The attitude of folks in the LBS I patronize most often is one of being pleased at any eventuality which produces another cycling consumer in the market.

Here's my .02$ on this issue.. (I hope it is not too long, but I just want to tell my story...)

I just came to road biking after 15 years on mountain bikes. I thought I would start looking for used bikes but I did not come across something that seemed like the right deal. When I started looking at new bikes I found my "maximum spend" creeping up, up, and up(towards the $2000 mark.) I decided that to treat myself to something really nice that would bring pleasure and fuel interest in my new sport for years to come. I shopped and asked questions at several LBSs. At one point somebody mentioned that the Litespeed Classic was going out of production and they might be able to get a deal for me on it. "How good of a deal?" I wondered... It turned out that they couldn't get a deal. In fact, they couldn't get a Classic at all. I was doing research online and came across the Classic at Colorado Cyclist for $2600 (Ultegra components.) It was more than I planned to spend, but the opportunity for something that seemed so nice was very tempting. I bit the bullet, put the extra $ on my credit card, and took a chance for fit by doing the online purchase. I saved $1100 over sticker plus 8% sales tax , and I probably saved at least $700+ from what I might have bargained for at the LBS.

I was worried sick about fitting the bike because I am new to road riding. I am 6'4" tall and came across differing opinions about what would work. I had trouble finding something to test ride, and I did not want to unfairly impose on an LBS to let me test ride ther bikes so that I could buy something online. I did a lot of research and measurements by different methods and felt that I would come out between a 61cm and a 63cm (leaning towards the 63.) The 61cm was all that was available. I talked to the sales rep about returns and he was very helpful. In the end I figured that it was worth the risk to lose $60 or so for shipping charges if I had to return the bike.

When I got the bike I was so worked up about figuring out whether it really fit properly that I couldn't make a judgement. I definitlely recieved some anti-internet propoganda from some of the bike shops I had been to, so I called around to "test the waters" and find out where I might have it fit. After one unpleasant phone call and one lackluster visit to a bike shop I ended up taking it to Helen's (they are a Litespeed dealer) and paid them $25 to measure and fit me. They were very cool about it and they now have my loyalty and some of my money; unlike some other LBSs who were either snide, rude, or flippant with me because I didn't want to throw hundreds of dollars their way just because they exist. (warning: slight rant ahead...) I mean we are talking about businesses right? A bicycle purchase is an economic decision as much as anything else. If this is understood then the consequent conclusion should be that the internet will have an effect on the LBS business model. I will spend my money where I can the value that I want, and where I feel that somebody is thinking about my needs as a customer, and who offers what they can to meet those needs.

The bike fits. I shipped the stem back for an exchange because I decided I wanted it 1cm shorter - no problems. With that accomplished I am now a VERY happy camper. The bike feels light and tight and fast. I have put in a little over 100 miles in three rides in the last week and it has felt great every time. I think that I made a good choice on a bike that will bring me years of pleasure and where I can upgrade components onto a really nice frame.

Lastly, I feel like I bought bike that suits my personality and my expected riding style. And I have that wonderful sense of satisfaction from knowing that my bike is worth hundreds more than I paid for it (I really love a deal.) I feel good about my purchase.

If we were talking about a difference of $100-$200 I would have seriously considered the right LBS for the convenience and customer service. I did give one LBS the opportunity to counter-offer and to share their thoughts on what they would do if they were in my shoes (they really just shuffled their feet and hemmed and hawed about it - they couldn't answer me straight. It seemd obvious that they were considering thier interests to the exclusion of my own.) My internet experience was a successful transaction. I took a little bit of a risk, but it was calculated; and it was based on a lot of legwork and research. If done right, a new bike can be a very rewarding purchase; you will be repaid with enjoyment, health, and satisfaction. Spend your money where you find the prodcut, the value, and the service that meet your expectations.

Here's my .02$ on this issue.. (I hope it is not too long, but I just want to tell my story...)

I just came to road biking after 15 years on mountain bikes. I thought I would start looking for used bikes but I did not come across something that seemed like the right deal. When I started looking at new bikes I found my "maximum spend" creeping up, up, and up(towards the $2000 mark.) I decided that to treat myself to something really nice that would bring pleasure and fuel interest in my new sport for years to come. I shopped and asked questions at several LBSs. At one point somebody mentioned that the Litespeed Classic was going out of production and they might be able to get a deal for me on it. "How good of a deal?" I wondered... It turned out that they couldn't get a deal. In fact, they couldn't get a Classic at all. I was doing research online and came across the Classic at Colorado Cyclist for $2600 (Ultegra components.) It was more than I planned to spend, but the opportunity for something that seemed so nice was very tempting. I bit the bullet, put the extra $ on my credit card, and took a chance for fit by doing the online purchase. I saved $1100 over sticker plus 8% sales tax , and I probably saved at least $700+ from what I might have bargained for at the LBS.

I was worried sick about fitting the bike because I am new to road riding. I am 6'4" tall and came across differing opinions about what would work. I had trouble finding something to test ride, and I did not want to unfairly impose on an LBS to let me test ride ther bikes so that I could buy something online. I did a lot of research and measurements by different methods and felt that I would come out between a 61cm and a 63cm (leaning towards the 63.) The 61cm was all that was available. I talked to the sales rep about returns and he was very helpful. In the end I figured that it was worth the risk to lose $60 or so for shipping charges if I had to return the bike.

When I got the bike I was so worked up about figuring out whether it really fit properly that I couldn't make a judgement. I definitlely recieved some anti-internet propoganda from some of the bike shops I had been to, so I called around to "test the waters" and find out where I might have it fit. After one unpleasant phone call and one lackluster visit to a bike shop I ended up taking it to Helen's (they are a Litespeed dealer) and paid them $25 to measure and fit me. They were very cool about it and they now have my loyalty and some of my money; unlike some other LBSs who were either snide, rude, or flippant with me because I didn't want to throw hundreds of dollars their way just because they exist. (warning: slight rant ahead...) I mean we are talking about businesses right? A bicycle purchase is an economic decision as much as anything else. If this is understood then the consequent conclusion should be that the internet will have an effect on the LBS business model. I will spend my money where I can the value that I want, and where I feel that somebody is thinking about my needs as a customer, and who offers what they can to meet those needs.

The bike fits. I shipped the stem back for an exchange because I decided I wanted it 1cm shorter - no problems. With that accomplished I am now a VERY happy camper. The bike feels light and tight and fast. I have put in a little over 100 miles in three rides in the last week and it has felt great every time. I think that I made a good choice on a bike that will bring me years of pleasure and where I can upgrade components onto a really nice frame.

Lastly, I feel like I bought bike that suits my personality and my expected riding style. And I have that wonderful sense of satisfaction from knowing that my bike is worth hundreds more than I paid for it (I really love a deal.) I feel good about my purchase.

If we were talking about a difference of $100-$200 I would have seriously considered the right LBS for the convenience and customer service. I did give one LBS the opportunity to counter-offer and to share their thoughts on what they would do if they were in my shoes (they really just shuffled their feet and hemmed and hawed about it - they couldn't answer me straight. It seemd obvious that they were considering thier interests to the exclusion of my own.) My internet experience was a successful transaction. I took a little bit of a risk, but it was calculated; and it was based on a lot of legwork and research. If done right, a new bike can be a very rewarding purchase; you will be repaid with enjoyment, health, and satisfaction. Spend your money where you find the prodcut, the value, and the service that meet your expectations.


This is very clear and precise example of what is happening,
what will continue to happen, and greatly expand over the next few years.

It is coming in a big way, and the LBS's who continue to exhibit the poor attitudes and bad business judgements by chasing away potential customers who purchased their bike online, will probably become extinct.

"A bicycle purchase is an economic decision as much as anything else. If this is understood then the consequent conclusion should be that the internet will have an effect on the LBS business model."

Indeed it has, and will on much larger scale. If the local LBS's business plan cannot accomodate
change, then most likely they will not survive the ultra competitive marketplace. Adapting to
constant market climate changes and market shifts is vital to any business, bike shops are NOT excluded from this condition, even though most of them think they are.

Lastly, I applaude your thoughtful decision and purchasing process, you are happy with your purchase, you have good equipment, and that is all that matters. I wish many enjoyable riding miles to you...Heraclitus

I am looking at getting a very entry level road bike.

Hvaing read all peoples thoughts on this. The bike I am after does not cost much less online asappossed to the LBS. I am fortunate enough to have a large amount of LBS.

Therfore I will buy my first road bike(first since moving to US) from an LBS, but I am going to shop around the LBS and see how I get treated when they find I am only looking at the really low end of the road bike range. I am going to ask all the LBS the same questions the best one will get my business then and more than likly my future business as well.

This is very clear and precise example of what is happening,
what will continue to happen, and greatly expand over the next few years.

It is coming in a big way, and the LBS's who continue to exhibit the poor attitudes and bad business judgements by chasing away potential customers who purchased their bike online, will probably become extinct.

"A bicycle purchase is an economic decision as much as anything else. If this is understood then the consequent conclusion should be that the internet will have an effect on the LBS business model."

Indeed it has, and will on much larger scale. If the local LBS's business plan cannot accomodate
change, then most likely they will not survive the ultra competitive marketplace. Adapting to
constant market climate changes and market shifts is vital to any business, bike shops are NOT excluded from this condition, even though most of them think they are.

Lastly, I applaude your thoughtful decision and purchasing process, you are happy with your purchase, you have good equipment, and that is all that matters. I wish many enjoyable riding miles to you...Heraclitus


I agree with the overall premise that brick and mortor shops will have to be more competitive to stay afloat. However there are things that you will not get if you buy a bike on-line:

In my area most shops include a fit-kit with every bike purchase. This can range anywhere from 50-75 bucks.

Ditto on the free tune ups over a couple of years that can be another 75-100

Most of the shops will also swap out stems/seats to accomadate your needs. I see that one online buyer did that but you don't have to ship the part to your LBS.

Several of the shops here in town will hook you up with a shop rider for your first ride to get you aquainted with your bike and how to ride a road bike (this is for the very newbie rider)

Overall I think that if you are a very knowlagable person who can say that a bike that you've never seen or rode will fit you then ording online can make sense. Second if I were to buy a bike online it would have to be from a place like Colorado Cyclist or Excel or RA Cycles. But when I look at their prices they are not all that much less than my LBS, so overall how much am I saving?

Yes, 2Rodies, you make good, valid points. But my two fold argument is this;

First, if you choose NOT to buyt from the LBS, you shouldn't be treated
like a leper from them. You are a potential customer, who may or will purchase
bike related items or service from the local shop. But with lousy attitudes
that push away the potential customer, it is likely he or she won't but from the lbs.

Second, there is NO reason in the world, why someone shouldn't have the choice to
purchase the best value they can find. last time I checked it is still a market
for free-trade commerce! Which means having the freedom to shop around for
the best price and value, what ever that perception may be by the buyer.

If someone wants to purchase from the lbs, great! That is their decision, and
choice. For people who have 0 knowledge of bicycles it may be the best idea to
go to the local lbs. Then again, if they are fed a bunch of false crap by elitists who
only offer their own opinion and not the whole picture, then the lbs may not be the way to go!

I agree with the overall premise that brick and mortor shops will have to be more competitive to stay afloat. However there are things that you will not get if you buy a bike on-line:

In my area most shops include a fit-kit with every bike purchase. This can range anywhere from 50-75 bucks.

Ditto on the free tune ups over a couple of years that can be another 75-100

Most of the shops will also swap out stems/seats to accomadate your needs. I see that one online buyer did that but you don't have to ship the part to your LBS.

Several of the shops here in town will hook you up with a shop rider for your first ride to get you aquainted with your bike and how to ride a road bike (this is for the very newbie rider)

Overall I think that if you are a very knowlagable person who can say that a bike that you've never seen or rode will fit you then ording online can make sense. Second if I were to buy a bike online it would have to be from a place like Colorado Cyclist or Excel or RA Cycles. But when I look at their prices they are not all that much less than my LBS, so overall how much am I saving?

And I do not disagree with you at all. For me the online purchase was particularly motivated by a savings that I percieved as very LARGE. One LBS made the same points to me that you made in your email about the service and exchanging parts and the cost of tune-ups. I took those considerations into account when I made my decision about the cost and value of my purchase.

Another very helpful service I recieved from the bike shop was the opportunity to look at their bikes, and to ask a lot of questions and clarify concepts and issues about bike fit and performance. I was grateful for the help, and I felt a sense of obligation to them for it. That sense of obligation would have taken me a long way as their customer if I had not ended up feeling alienated because of my decision to buy online. This was a nice bike shop and they were not really jerks about it, but they left me feeling like it would be shameful for me to bring in a bike that I did not buy from them for fit or for service. They made a mistake in how they treated me as a customer because they were not flexible in their approach to meeting my needs.

Two more points in the LBS vs. online decision for me.
1. I like to do a lot of my own maintenance. It is not really a good sell to me to say that I would need to spend a couple hundred a year on "tune-ups" or adjustments or whatever for my bike. (Nothing wrong with either approach: I have acquantances who ride a lot and who do NOT like to do ANY of their own maintenance if they can avoid it. Again, it is a matter of understanding your customer.)
2. I found an exceptionally great deal. I think that the potential benefits in savings from an online purchase are biased towards higher $ value bikes. For a bike under $1000 dollars I think the online savings would be smaller and would be offset by the service and convenience factors of an LBS purchase.

Finally - further the points in favor of an LBS: the wait for my replacement stem was painful ! And had I not "guessed" correctly on the fit of the frame that I got, it would have been heartbreaking to pack up the whole bike and ship it back; which would have put me back to square one :eek: I believe that there was even a danger that I was so excited about getting the bike that it could have clouded my judgment about whether it was the right fit (that's why I decided to go to the LBS to have it fitted once it arrived and I put it together.)

I want a good LBS to go to. And I foud one; and I will continue to go there and give them first shot at my business. I am willing to spend a little extra money to go local: sometimes just for the convenience; but even more so for the freindliness and service. (And sometimes it boils down to a question of just how much extra money we are talking about...) The shop that I will consistently make my first choice is where the folks were friendly and flexible in meeting my needs. I think that the bike shops that will do the best in the new world of the internet will be those were this kind of ethos is ingrained in all of the employees.

As far as a the purchase of a new bicycle - that is a lot of money, and the margin that I saved with an online purchase would have been near impossible to compensate for with convenience and service. (Plus, the Colorado Cyclist folks were very helpful on the phone, they laid out a very fair return policy when asked about it, and my bike arrived at my door in 1 week from when I ordered it. They did pretty well themselves for convenience and service.)

By the way - still piling on the miles on my new Litespeed Classic. I love my bike and I love this sport!

And I do not disagree with you at all. For me the online purchase was particularly motivated by a savings that I percieved as very LARGE. One LBS made the same points to me that you made in your email about the service and exchanging parts and the cost of tune-ups. I took those considerations into account when I made my decision about the cost and value of my purchase.

Another very helpful service I recieved from the bike shop was the opportunity to look at their bikes, and to ask a lot of questions and clarify concepts and issues about bike fit and performance. I was grateful for the help, and I felt a sense of obligation to them for it. That sense of obligation would have taken me a long way as their customer if I had not ended up feeling alienated because of my decision to buy online. This was a nice bike shop and they were not really jerks about it, but they left me feeling like it would be shameful for me to bring in a bike that I did not buy from them for fit or for service. They made a mistake in how they treated me as a customer because they were not flexible in their approach to meeting my needs.

Two more points in the LBS vs. online decision for me.
1. I like to do a lot of my own maintenance. It is not really a good sell to me to say that I would need to spend a couple hundred a year on "tune-ups" or adjustments or whatever for my bike. (Nothing wrong with either approach: I have acquantances who ride a lot and who do NOT like to do ANY of their own maintenance if they can avoid it. Again, it is a matter of understanding your customer.)
2. I found an exceptionally great deal. I think that the potential benefits in savings from an online purchase are biased towards higher $ value bikes. For a bike under $1000 dollars I think the online savings would be smaller and would be offset by the service and convenience factors of an LBS purchase.

Finally - further the points in favor of an LBS: the wait for my replacement stem was painful ! And had I not "guessed" correctly on the fit of the frame that I got, it would have been heartbreaking to pack up the whole bike and ship it back; which would have put me back to square one :eek: I believe that there was even a danger that I was so excited about getting the bike that it could have clouded my judgment about whether it was the right fit (that's why I decided to go to the LBS to have it fitted once it arrived and I put it together.)

I want a good LBS to go to. And I foud one; and I will continue to go there and give them first shot at my business. I am willing to spend a little extra money to go local: sometimes just for the convenience; but even more so for the freindliness and service. (And sometimes it boils down to a question of just how much extra money we are talking about...) The shop that I will consistently make my first choice is where the folks were friendly and flexible in meeting my needs. I think that the bike shops that will do the best in the new world of the internet will be those were this kind of ethos is ingrained in all of the employees.

As far as a the purchase of a new bicycle - that is a lot of money, and the margin that I saved with an online purchase would have been near impossible to compensate for with convenience and service. (Plus, the Colorado Cyclist folks were very helpful on the phone, they laid out a very fair return policy when asked about it, and my bike arrived at my door in 1 week from when I ordered it. They did pretty well themselves for convenience and service.)

By the way - still piling on the miles on my new Litespeed Classic. I love my bike and I love this sport!


The point you missed in my statements was the fact that you are knowlagable about what you need. I buy stuff on line also but I really know bikes. I know exactly the top tube length, geometry, stem length bar width etc. that will fit me. If you are puchasing a bike for the first time I feel it's a better deal in the long run to get the bike from a LBS.

One more point then I'm out. Bike shops cannot compete with the internet on price points. Most e-retailers do not have a to support a staff and large brick and mortor establishment. Some shops offer their employees benifiets etc etc and all that creats overhead that an e-retailer doesn't have to deal with. Everyone has said that LBS have to learn to adapt well having owned my own retail business I know there is only so much you can cut your markup before you are no longer in business. At some point we have to support our LBS or they will no longer exist. If you can wait 3-4 days for X or Y part or to do a repair that is beyond you abilities then you don't need a LBS. For most of us we would be screwd without them.

The point you missed in my statements was the fact that you are knowlagable about what you need. I buy stuff on line also but I really know bikes. I know exactly the top tube length, geometry, stem length bar width etc. that will fit me. If you are puchasing a bike for the first time I feel it's a better deal in the long run to get the bike from a LBS.

One more point then I'm out. Bike shops cannot compete with the internet on price points. Most e-retailers do not have a to support a staff and large brick and mortor establishment. Some shops offer their employees benifiets etc etc and all that creats overhead that an e-retailer doesn't have to deal with. Everyone has said that LBS have to learn to adapt well having owned my own retail business I know there is only so much you can cut your markup before you are no longer in business. At some point we have to support our LBS or they will no longer exist. If you can wait 3-4 days for X or Y part or to do a repair that is beyond you abilities then you don't need a LBS. For most of us we would be screwd without them.

So, why does a bike shop HAVE to sell bikes? They really don't. The profit margin made from new bike sales is very slim. I think its more of a convenience aspect. The shops figure they can be a one-stop shop for all of your needs. While that premise is great, i.e - Walmart, and the Costco's and BJ's Lowes, Home depots, etc...that model cannot work on a small scale.

The LBS cannot buy enough in quanity to pass along the savings. Plus, as you stated -online retailers don't have the same overhead. But, what about the thousands and thousands of businesses that are online v brick&mortor stores? Why not have an online shop as well as B&M? Ala Performance, and Supergo? Most every major retailer has both.

So, that argument doesn't hold any water in my opinion. Again, it is most likely the LBS's refusal to adapt to an ever changing market, they resent it, so instead of going with the changing tide they try to go against it. Well you can only swim upstream for so long.

I don't feel sorry for shops who won't make the effort to change. Businesses come and go,
that is a inherent fact of commerce. In order to survive, creative and intellegent marketing
is required. Though that does not guarentee success. There will be LBS's that won't survive,
and there will be new shops opening trying to re-invent the mosue trap, its cyclical, it will go on forever, or as long as capitalism exists. If the deciding reason why any business goes under
is the internet, then...there are more issues surrounding the business and the people who
run/own it then you are lead to believe. The internet alone does not put well run companies
out of business. It is ill-run companies that put themselves out of business. Shops make the bulk of their money from service, and the remainder from parts sales. So why not focus on that aspect instead? Why not cater to ANYone who steps into your shop looking to make a purchase. Be it 5 bucks, 50 bucks or a couple of hundred?

Because most shops are not run by marketing and business experts. There is no board
of directors, no management team, etc. In all fairness of course there couldn't be for the majority of them, too small, single shop, no chain...

I believe that most shop owners are not real versed in marketing and business strategies.
Most have probably come from family owned businesses, or were first enthusiasts of cycling
who saw an opportunity to make a living. Hence, most shop owners probably don't have business or marketing degrees. Not that you absolutely need one, but in todays marketplace you are certainly at a disadvantage if you don't. It would be interesting to compare P&L's of say the Performance or Supergo shop v a similar sized shop in the same area.

Bottom line to me is not whether or I buy from the local shop or not, but whether the local shop
can accomodate me. For some strange reason, most people here seem to think it is the reverse.
Commerce doesn't work like that, competition, and choice is part of what drives the market.

Loyality? Yes, for good business relations, service and fair cost. Would I expect to pay slightly
more at the LBS? Yes, but only if the above criteria were met. If not...so long, because
there is someone out there willing to provide that. Again, my dollars will help decide that.
You want a customer for life? Then treat every customer/potential cutomer like that.
Don't discourage any business, none. A shop that discourages business, is a shop
destined to be short-lived in the coming years, there is simply too much choice, and
it is ever increasing. Adapting is way more than cutting mark-up. In fact it is a lengthy and
on-going process, which many shops probably don't have the time or patience to do.
Managing the shop should take up far more time than anything else, "Change Management"
should be a priority as much, if not more than the selling, or repairing of bikes.

What I find interesting is the way people refer or say, how you 'need' the LBS, and how its almost disrespectful not to buy from the LBS. What? Are the LBS
like the bicycling Mafia? For *insert expletive* sakes, just because the LBS exists
means you have to buy from there? What kind of logic is that? Sure its nice to do business with the local shop, pump some dollars back into your community,
but its not the be all to end all folks. If the LBS cannot somewhat compete with
online businesses, guess what? Too bad. There are thousands of businesses
online all over the world, some have brick & mortor stores as well, and commerce seems to thrive very well in spite of the "god aweful" internet discount stores...

I use my local shop for tune-ups, and certain parts, and I don't get any attitude
because I didn't buy it there. If I did, I would tell them straight out, it is poor customer relations and poor business skills to discourage any customer from
purchasing anything from the shop. A customer is a customer doesn't matter if you spend 20 bucks or 2000 the shop is making a sale. Eventually bikes sold on the internet will become even more prevelant and more popular as cycling grows
and the LBS will have to deal with that aspect, whether they like it or not.
I realize that some don't like that line of thinking, but as long as there
are many choices and competition for consumer dollars, a market will be created and usually thrive.

LOL. Nice Post. "The Bike Mafia" - I have to admit that's what my LBS seems like sometimes.

for all those who like me have had a bad experience at a LBS but had a great experience at another, I am thinking of printing this entire thread and just so happen to leave it by the register of the shop I received bad service from.

Do you think it would make a difference?

Yes, I know what you mean too, bullying you buy an expensive bike..! :)

It may, it may not.
It depends on the prevailing attitude(s) of the owner(s)
If they are gruff, and somewhat elitist..then probably no.

If they are open to suggestion, and savy business men..maybe then it would.

My guess is, it will not, they will probably take it as a slap in the face and get even more
defensive and arrogant about the situation.

but hey, no one ever made a difference by being silent, I say do it!

[But, watch out for the 'bike mafia' if they catch you, they may
bend your spokes...bend your Derailleur, or re-arrange your shifting fingers!] :p

for all those who like me have had a bad experience at a LBS but had a great experience at another, I am thinking of printing this entire thread and just so happen to leave it by the register of the shop I received bad service from.

Do you think it would make a difference?

I am fully with you on this idea! I might just try that myself. One of my thoughts in participating in this discussion was the hope that it might serve to influence or "enlighten" consumers AND business owners -even if just indirectly.

When I was shopping for my bike I fully recognized that many of the owners and employees in bike shops do what they do because they love cycling - not because they love business strategy and marketing. I appreciate that and I am wiling to give some allowance for the passion that they may bring to the question of internet competition.

I reallly want to have a good LBS to go to - even several of them; that benefits me as the consumer. I will only support the best of them with my business; but I will support all of them with whatever advice they want to hear on how they can become the "best" for me.