Living Car Free - Fancy Bike Should Stay Stolen, Bike Thief Should Keep It With Owner's Blessing?

".....Getting a stolen bike back may not mean your troubles are over. When James Selman's bike was stolen from his work studio in Portland in June, he posted an alert on BikePortland.org. A week and half later, Joe Wilson, a 27-year-old electrical engineering student, saw the bike, a Seven Cycles custom single-speed, outside his apartment and matched it to Mr. Selman's listing.

Mr. Wilson, who noted that the thief was wearing regular sneakers, rather than the special shoes that work best with the high-end pedals on the bike, emailed Mr. Selman to tell him that he was stalling the thief while calling the cops. The thief was arrested and the bike returned to its rightful owner.
Though Mr. Selman is grateful that the perpetrator was caught, he got the bike back with $850 worth of damage—an amount below his insurance deductible that he will have to pay out of pocket. His homeowners insurance would have covered the loss of the $5,500 bike. "The way the system works, I would have preferred for it to stay gone," he says....."
From:
[URL="Food For Thought....Bike Stays Stolen, Bike Thief Should Keep It With Owner's Blessing? ".....Getting a stolen bike back may not mean your troubles are over. When James Selman's bike was stolen from his work studio in Portland in June, he posted an alert on BikePortland.org. A week and half later, Joe Wilson, a 27-year-old electrical engineering student, saw the bike, a Seven Cycles custom single-speed, outside his apartment and matched it to Mr. Selman's listing. Mr. Wilson, who noted that the thief was wearing regular sneakers, rather than the special shoes that work best with the high-end pedals on the bike, emailed Mr. Selman to tell him that he was stalling the thief while calling the cops. The thief was arrested and the bike returned to its rightful owner. Though Mr. Selman is grateful that the perpetrator was caught, he got the bike back with $850 worth of damage—an amount below his insurance deductible that he will have to pay out of pocket. His homeowners insurance would have covered the loss of the $5,500 bike. "The way the system works, I would have preferred for it to stay gone," he says....."
From:
[B]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574372742013894458.html#
(Copy & Paste Link If Clicking On It Does Not Work)

This article is a very interesting one for sure. More & more people are riding bikes. More of them choose some high price (1000 US dollars+) fancy gizmo bikes. More and more still practice poor planning to combat theft. And when they do, the system awards them according to some offhand hair brained means of calculating loss. My take-don't bother, ride a bike that goes with you everywhere-i.e. a good folding bike that stays at your side, not lock dependent.

Still more of this same attitude echoed from the WSJ's Comment Section:
".....Glad not to get my bike back..homeowners covered for replacement at 09 model prices....."

What is the world coming to?

Car, and in fact, most insurance has created an ethic of dishonesty that is pervading just about everything we do.

I also know of people who insist on claiming every year for anything that amounts to the premium they pay.

And after the bushfires here in February this year, rorting of the insurance system was rife, with, as an example, new for old claims for machinery and the like that had been decommissioned and written off years ago.

Ultimately, people won't take responsibility for their own actions, believing "the insurance" will pay for any slip-up as a result of that laxity.

Little wonder thieves and those who like to destroy things for a pastime get away with their actions.

If there was no insurance for goods, chattels and the like under $50,000 of value *each*, for example, I can guarantee the lax moral attitude to theft and vandalism would change pretty quick smart.

Insurance is a form of legalized gambling, they are betting you won't need it and you are betting you will. But you are betting against the house and the odds are usually stacked in their favor. I use insurance for catastrophic loss only. We carry high deductibles and have the money in the bank to make up the difference. We had a total business loss back in 2004 due to a fire in an adjacent structure. We are still fighting with the insurance company today to recoup what is owed for that loss.

I don't have any super expensive bicycles and if I did I would take great pains to protect them, and I protect the ones I have. In many cases I suspect people have the cavalier attitude that the insurance is going to pay for them so why bother to protect them properly?

I also have no use for thieves, regardless of what socioeconomic strata they come from.:mad: all they do is make life more difficult for those of us that take responsibility for ourselves.

Aaron:)

I friend of mine had a costom hybrid Cannondale insured on a individual "new for old" policy. The bike had cost around £1300, but when he looked at the replacement value after it was stolen, it had risen to around £1600 due to the exchange rates. The insurance company were shocking and despite him proving his case to them they only offered the replacement value at purchase. The insurance company also stated that if the price had gone down they would have gone to the lower price. Dishonest,having it both ways company is the conclusion. My friend still insures his bike but with a different company now,I bet he will not insure his house though this company either. Their loss! Shortterm thinking. I had simular experience with an insurer who did not seem to understand accidential damage. I read the Oxford concise dictionary definition to prove my point,got the full refund, and changed my insurers.

Vote with your wallet!

Insurance companies should massively reduce fraud by asking for more evidence of damage, loss ect. When I have made a claim I have been amazed the lack of proof of damage or purchase price,they could easily ask me to mail the stuff to them or provide proof. Then they would not need to try and wriggle out of legitimate claims.

It looks like they have lots of options for bike insurance in the UK (http://www.cycleguard.co.uk/). AAA (http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/07/aaa-will-extend-roadside-assistance-to-bicycles/) in Oregon and Idaho is offering roadside assistance and transport for up to 25 miles. Better World Club (http://www.betterworldclub.com/bicycles/index.cfm)has bike insurance nationwide in the US.

I will never understand why people lock bikes worth $1000 or more outside somewhere. I also ride an expensive road bike but when I do, it never leaves my sight. If I need to go somewhere and leave my bike, I ride my crappy beat up old bike that I bought for $40 (and fixed up with $100 worth of stuff). While I'd prefer it also not be stolen, if it is, I'm only out $140.

Unfortunately, it's not just dishonesty that is driving up the price of insurance on everything. Poor public policy is having a huge impact on homeowners insurance in the US. Rather than develop zoning laws that limit or discourage people from building homes in high-risk areas subject to flooding, erosion, etc., many communities opened the doors for developers to build anywhere, wanting to rake in taxes during the housing boom. Unfortunately we humans just can't understand that we're aren't superior and we can't control the forces of nature; Mother Nature will always prevail. As a result, annually, there's a fair amount of damage from natural forces to human habitats built in poorly-chosen areas and everyone, nation-wide, sees rate increase as a result.

I will never understand why people lock bikes worth $1000 or more outside somewhere. I also ride an expensive road bike but when I do, it never leaves my sight. If I need to go somewhere and leave my bike, I ride my crappy beat up old bike that I bought for $40 (and fixed up with $100 worth of stuff). While I'd prefer it also not be stolen, if it is, I'm only out $140.

People leave their cars parked with only cheap little plastic locks that can be picked with a coat hanger sitting around all the time, believe me I saw one just today! :thumb:

Why are people so paranoid about bike theft? Are bikes stolen at a higher rate than cars? People vandalize cars all the time and then the owners also get screwed over by their insurance companies. Its the way the world works. If you are that afraid of losing your bike then you bought a bike that is too expensive for you. I own a 1,000 bike and if I lost it, it would suck. Thats life. I would still buy a new 1,000 bike and lock it up, properly, wherever I needed to go. Sounds more like a lot of people are trying to live beyond their means with expensive things like bikes and cars and then expecting insurance companies to solve all of their financial problems when the shift hits the fan.

People leave their cars parked with only cheap little plastic locks that can be picked with a coat hanger sitting around all the time, believe me I saw one just today! :thumb:

Why are people so paranoid about bike theft? Are bikes stolen at a higher rate than cars? People vandalize cars all the time and then the owners also get screwed over by their insurance companies. Its the way the world works. If you are that afraid of losing your bike then you bought a bike that is too expensive for you. I own a 1,000 bike and if I lost it, it would suck. Thats life. I would still buy a new 1,000 bike and lock it up, properly, wherever I needed to go. Sounds more like a lot of people are trying to live beyond their means with expensive things like bikes and cars and then expecting insurance companies to solve all of their financial problems when the shift hits the fan.

Possibly and there is little to no chance of recovery. In many cases you are lucky if you can get the local law enforcement to even take a report and give you a copy.

Aaron:)

Possibly and there is little to no chance of recovery. In many cases you are lucky if you can get the local law enforcement to even take a report and give you a copy.

Aaron:)


Very few of the people I know who have had their cars stolen have ever had their car returned to them in any recognizable condition. One of them was found in a lake, another buddies was involved in a robbery somewhere in Mexico and another was never found at all. Thats just my experience though so I would be interested if anyone could produce a statistic.

Why are people so paranoid about bike theft? Are bikes stolen at a higher rate than cars? People vandalize cars all the time and then the owners also get screwed over by their insurance companies. Its the way the world works. If you are that afraid of losing your bike then you bought a bike that is too expensive for you. I own a 1,000 bike and if I lost it, it would suck. Thats life. I would still buy a new 1,000 bike and lock it up, properly, wherever I needed to go. Sounds more like a lot of people are trying to live beyond their means with expensive things like bikes and cars and then expecting insurance companies to solve all of their financial problems when the shift hits the fan.

Yeah it would be crazy to save up money and buy a nice bike/anything... So when I buy nice things I should first think about someone stealing it and if I can replace it? I understand your point to a degree, ie if you cant afford other basic items because you bought such an expensive bike, but I dont ever want to have theft as a factor of what bike I buy (when its never going to be locked up.) Now if you are going to be locking it up, you have to put other factors into the equation.

Either way thieves = the pits.

Very few of the people I know who have had their cars stolen have ever had their car returned to them in any recognizable condition. One of them was found in a lake, another buddies was involved in a robbery somewhere in Mexico and another was never found at all. Thats just my experience though so I would be interested if anyone could produce a statistic.

I can't find statistics for stolen bikes. However I have had around a dozen bikes stolen over the past 30 years and only one was recovered, and I recovered it. I have had 2 trucks stolen and both were recovered within 24 hours. One was basically untouched, just had an empty gas tank. The other was pretty badly beat up and the insurance company ended up totaling it.

Best I can tell is that around 1.1 million cars are stolen every year, with around 60% being recovered.

Aaron:)

Yeah it would be crazy to save up money and buy a nice bike/anything... So when I buy nice things I should first think about someone stealing it and if I can replace it? I understand your point to a degree, ie if you cant afford other basic items because you bought such an expensive bike, but I dont ever want to have theft as a factor of what bike I buy (when its never going to be locked up.) Now if you are going to be locking it up, you have to put other factors into the equation.

Either way thieves = the pits.

Ahh I understand your objection now. Its not that I think about my bike being stolen when I am purchasing it. I just think of everything I buy as more or less disposable because all material things are. I mean, bike theft sucks for sure but thats not the only way to lose your bike. There are car accidents, getting damaged by the airport during travel ( I tour a lot), just plain old crashing it, house fire, flood, and in the long long run of it, rust. Here today gone tomorrow and dont buy things that you cant afford to lose, either to thieves or anything else.

I will never understand why people lock bikes worth $1000 or more outside somewhere. I also ride an expensive road bike but when I do, it never leaves my sight. If I need to go somewhere and leave my bike, I ride my crappy beat up old bike that I bought for $40 (and fixed up with $100 worth of stuff). While I'd prefer it also not be stolen, if it is, I'm only out $140.

My commuter bike is worth well more than 1000 to replace. Good stuff adds up fast! Of course, at a glance it looks like a $40 bike.

I will never understand why people lock bikes worth $1000 or more outside somewhere. I also ride an expensive road bike but when I do, it never leaves my sight. If I need to go somewhere and leave my bike, I ride my crappy beat up old bike that I bought for $40 (and fixed up with $100 worth of stuff). While I'd prefer it also not be stolen, if it is, I'm only out $140.

Have you thought of preconditioning by our society through Law Enforcement (security guards, store clerks telling you to get that @$^& bike out of here. Or people educating the young to "lock their bikes" when they have to stop somewhere that is not home, not choosing better alternatives (like having secure manned parking, long term storage, even a "safe house" like I did before I switched to folding bikes). Whatever the case may be, the point is how easy people are led to believe in a system that does not and never in the past support them.


People leave their cars parked with only cheap little plastic locks that can be picked with a coat hanger sitting around all the time, believe me I saw one just today! :thumb:

Why are people so paranoid about bike theft? Are bikes stolen at a higher rate than cars? People vandalize cars all the time and then the owners also get screwed over by their insurance companies. Its the way the world works. If you are that afraid of losing your bike then you bought a bike that is too expensive for you. I own a 1,000 bike and if I lost it, it would suck. Thats life. I would still buy a new 1,000 bike and lock it up, properly, wherever I needed to go. Sounds more like a lot of people are trying to live beyond their means with expensive things like bikes and cars and then expecting insurance companies to solve all of their financial problems when the shift hits the fan.

No one wants to be made a fool of or violated. This is what occurs when a theft of anything valuable, not just cars and bikes. Insurance companies play on people's emotions since here in the US, there is no real option to keep bikes safe for the most part. Plus add poor education of the masses to the mix and you have a real mess.


Possibly and there is little to no chance of recovery. In many cases you are lucky if you can get the local law enforcement to even take a report and give you a copy.

Aaron:)

That is very true. In the larger urban centers, the "great leaders" go on and on about "gangs," "drugs," "problem or issue of the week," whatever. The political agenda of the average local, state, federal government official or politician is to be guaranteed another paycheck. And nothing ever changes (sorry Mr. President).


I can't find statistics for stolen bikes. However I have had around a dozen bikes stolen over the past 30 years and only one was recovered, and I recovered it. I have had 2 trucks stolen and both were recovered within 24 hours. One was basically untouched, just had an empty gas tank. The other was pretty badly beat up and the insurance company ended up totaling it.

Best I can tell is that around 1.1 million cars are stolen every year, with around 60% being recovered.

Aaron:)

That's about right as far as a "spot check" for stolen bikes. I doubt that real statistics are kept about stolen anything. It is just glossed over and people shield their eyes, stick their heads in the sand, and hope it all goes away (or at least not affect them personally).

I'm not so sure the guy who was quoted here is saying anything that most people would. If he were dishonest, he'd be collecting 5500 dollars from the insurance company even having gotten the bike back. However, the objective fact is that finding the bike may have cost him 850 dollars. He probably had a new bike picked out, just waiting on the check from the company, only to find out he doesn't get it, and that his old bike is torn up and not covered. I'd be glad to have my bike back, but I guess I can relate.

Ahh I understand your objection now. Its not that I think about my bike being stolen when I am purchasing it. I just think of everything I buy as more or less disposable because all material things are. I mean, bike theft sucks for sure but thats not the only way to lose your bike. There are car accidents, getting damaged by the airport during travel ( I tour a lot), just plain old crashing it, house fire, flood, and in the long long run of it, rust. Here today gone tomorrow and dont buy things that you cant afford to lose, either to thieves or anything else.

Bikes are a material thing but atleast to me there more than that. I guess when your on something/use it to get everywhere, it becomes apart of you (atleast for me). And I agree, people should not buy things that they really cant afford.

i feel that the worst insurance issues are with fires. How can you prove you owned stuff when your house burnt down? I guess you are technically owed your whole coverage amount because you lost everything, but I doubt they would see it that way.

Anyone else notice the part where it was stolen from inside his studio, not that he left it outside somewhere. :rolleyes:

UD

Anyone else notice the part where it was stolen from inside his studio, not that he left it outside somewhere. :rolleyes:

UD

In the end, it does not matter where it was taken (even indoors). The point that really caught my attention from this article was that 2 people did not want their old bike back.

After all....."Though Mr. Selman is grateful that the perpetrator was caught, he got the bike back with $850 worth of damage—an amount below his insurance deductible that he will have to pay out of pocket. His homeowners insurance would have covered the loss of the $5,500 bike...."

What is comes down to is....the bottom line, not so much liking or loving bikes in themselves. And about the bike discussed here, Is it gold plated, covered in precious stones, or something so that makes it is so overpriced? A thousand dollars basic price is the most one should spend for a bike unless it is your profession or means to make a living. I like bikes and the ones I have are extremely important to me, but not that much.

I think people should spent whatever the hell they want on bikes and other stuff. It is their money. :rolleyes:

I think people should spent whatever the hell they want on bikes and other stuff. It is their money. :rolleyes:

I agree. But it was the attitude of the owner that caught my attention. Yes, he bought homeowner's insurance. Yes to he bought the bike (and probably other portable valuables that was not mention since break ins usually hauled it off too). The problem I have is that the group of people that are members of this particular insurance group will see their premiums go up because of this cavalier attitude as this man has. I don't insure my bikes or any other valuables of mine. I simply take care of them with means & methods that don't include insurance and other people including police. So far, the hardened target theory works well in slummy gangland.

In the end, it does not matter where it was taken (even indoors). The point that really caught my attention from this article was that 2 people did not want their old bike back.

After all....."Though Mr. Selman is grateful that the perpetrator was caught, he got the bike back with $850 worth of damage—an amount below his insurance deductible that he will have to pay out of pocket. His homeowners insurance would have covered the loss of the $5,500 bike...."

What is comes down to is....the bottom line, not so much liking or loving bikes in themselves. And about the bike discussed here, Is it gold plated, covered in precious stones, or something so that makes it is so overpriced? A thousand dollars basic price is the most one should spend for a bike unless it is your profession or means to make a living. I like bikes and the ones I have are extremely important to me, but not that much.

I think you are severely missing the point.

When I was in H.S., my mother's car was stolen. They found it later without, interior, doors, headlights, wheels/tires... whole nine yards. The insurance company said they would fix it.

Now you tell me. Do you want "your old car" back, when:

You will rely on some schmoe fixing all that is wrong with it

You don't have any idea if the tools that stole it, F'd something else up (drive train, engine.. or even something small)

Having to sell the car later, with stickers that don't match anywhere


The answer is no, you don't want your old car back. Just like you don't want your old bike back after some moron stole it, and likely didn't know how to use it.

Who knows, maybe this guys carbon fork snapped the next day after he "got it fixed back to where it was"?(which you should know is not that case). Then, he's out $850 and a bike.

Bottom line is we are a bunch of ******* in this country, that don't punish criminals as they should be, because they have rights. Why are we worried about the rights of individuals that obviously don't give sh*& about anyone other than themselves?

I will never understand why people lock bikes worth $1000 or more outside somewhere. I also ride an expensive road bike but when I do, it never leaves my sight. If I need to go somewhere and leave my bike, I ride my crappy beat up old bike that I bought for $40 (and fixed up with $100 worth of stuff). While I'd prefer it also not be stolen, if it is, I'm only out $140.

+1. I only use my best bike when I am touring or going for long rides. For everyday stuff, I ride the old stuff.

That said, I believe that people should be able to ride new, expensive, sportin' bicycles just like they would drive expensive automobiles. People should be able to use bicycles as prestige status symbols. Why not?

We should expect society to act civilized and not steal other's property. Still, just like automobiles or other property, bicycles will be stolen.

Bicycle heft deterant isn't that difficult, if we were serious about it. IN addition to cable and U-locks, we could have keyed steering column locks like they had 50 years ago. That isn't rocket science.

For Mike & JFlurett,

I simply think that other members of that insurance group should not be held liable (i.e through higher priced premiums) for something that one should be responsible for completely (like most cyclists are) as it always been before the crush of insuring everything. My bikes are not insured. I live in an area where I have a bike thief living down the street from me. So I rely on the bike type (folding ones only), stealth, and even common sense to prevent theft for over 10 years since I started to ride again. It works. No insurance claims, no hassles, no headaches, Just keeping me and mine safe. And I don't bother people about it too!

For the record, I do believe in and insure some things:



Car when new or when I drive (CA requirement)
The house itself for fire, some possession loss, and other limited loss
Keep a separate bank account for every other potential loss (including bikes) and not bother the insurance company



And that is it. No waste here at this house. And responsibility to others is still practiced here.

As far as the original post is concerned, I do not understand this business about deductible. Wouldn't it be applied regardless of whether the bike is recovered or not? For example, suppose you have a $1000 deductible. If your $5000 bike receives $850 in damage, you get $0 in compensation. If the whole bike is gone, you receive $4000 in compensation. So if anything, the first situation should be preferable.

As far as the original post is concerned, I do not understand this business about deductible. Wouldn't it be applied regardless of whether the bike is recovered or not? For example, suppose you have a $1000 deductible. If your $5000 bike receives $850 in damage, you get $0 in compensation. If the whole bike is gone, you receive $4000 in compensation. So if anything, the first situation should be preferable.

Anybody want to wager he inflated the price of the bike for insurance purposes?:innocent:

What he is whining about is that he is now going to be out $850 if he wants to fix the bike versus the fact he could have gotten a check for $4000 to go and buy another toy because he was tired of the bike.;)

Aaron:)

Insurance companies should massively reduce fraud by asking for more evidence of damage, loss ect. When I have made a claim I have been amazed the lack of proof of damage or purchase price,they could easily ask me to mail the stuff to them or provide proof. Then they would not need to try and wriggle out of legitimate claims.

There is a reason for that. Insurance covers the replacement cost, not the original purchase price.

There is a reason for that. Insurance covers the replacement cost, not the original purchase price.

Depends on the insurance policy.

Aaron:)

He could have replacement cost or Actual cash value
He would still be out the deductible

There is a reason for that. Insurance covers the replacement cost, not the original purchase price.

not always,please re read the thread. Both our policies were "new for old". In my friends case they only gave him the purchase price. This was around £300 less than he required to replace his bike!