Classic & Vintage - Obscure Italian Bike

I recently picked up a bike for my wife, I mentioned it in another thread.

I finally got around to taking a few pictures, and was hoping someone may be able to shed a little light on the builder.

Here's what I know. The bike is branded Tomas. It appears to be a decent bike, a mix of high to mid level Japanese components. The frame is SLX, verified. It has a full chrome rear triangle and a chrome fork. The paint is quite stunning in person., pink to pearl white fade, with pink undertones in the white.

It has Suntour Superbe cranks, rings, pedals and derailleur, Sprint indexed shifters and hubs, New Winner Pro 7 speed freewheel, Rino Chrono tubular rims, 105 brake levers and calipers, and Cinelli bars & stem. No serial number, just the frame size on the BB. Four slotted cutouts on the BB.

I think the bike is a 1986-87 build. I bought the bike off the Detroit CL, but it was located in Windsor, Ontario, GWN.

Pictures here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/zmudshark/Tomas#

A few pictures to get you guys started, any info is greatly appreciated. I've checked the usual sources (CR, Yellow Jersey, etc), and have only gotten anecdotal references.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNPxTKS3yI/AAAAAAAADAk/rbEEDLo2Dqk/s800/PA240056.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNQANOCDqI/AAAAAAAADBE/NYH3LZ04ZqE/s800/PA240063.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNQBx22YGI/AAAAAAAADBM/CtsbRxHBHe0/s800/PA240064.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNQE4R85tI/AAAAAAAADBQ/RSnjQU3LUZU/s800/PA240065.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNQGV4T37I/AAAAAAAADBU/kDlepP2m2e0/s800/PA240066.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yN4-Z85dhz0/SuNQIdzBrnI/AAAAAAAADBY/XHmr_JdtSlw/s800/PA240067.JPG

I've heard of 'Tomas' before, but like you Dont know much more. Doesn't make any difference though. That bike is gorgeous and the componentry and Columbus tubes really makes it nice.

Your wife should be very happy. :D

ooo-wee that bike is nice! good luck with your quest for info.. afraid i can't help though

Isn't there a Tomas scooter company?

Isn't there a Tomas scooter company?
Yes, there is. But as far as I have been able to tell, they never made bicycles.

You really know how to find 'em. I sent the link to my wife's niece in Bolzano. I'm hoping their team manager knows what this is, cause it rocks. Quite impressive frame details.

You really know how to find 'em. I sent the link to my wife's niece in Bolzano. I'm hoping their team manager knows what this is, cause it rocks. Quite impressive frame details.

Thanks. It would be nice to have an idea.

I took it for a quick ride Thursday, and though it's way small for me, it cornered well, and seem pretty lively.

I must say, though I have some nice bikes in the stable, but this one is really stunning in person. I need to get a white Regal for it, the Rolls was in the parts bin, and will do for now.

This bike was on the Detroit CL, poorly described, and reasonably priced.

I owe a debt of gratitude to redxj, who went to Canada and picked it up for me, so let me publicly thank him. Thanks Big Matt!

It looks very nice. The previous owner must have hand hands down to his/her knees, that stem is so long.

Looks really nice, but I know nothin...

It looks very nice. The previous owner must have hand hands down to his/her knees, that stem is so long.
It's only a 120 stem. Long for that sized frame, yes, but pretty normal for an average frame.

It will be replaced with a shorter stem for my wife, and I ride a 120, so all is good. The 66-40 bars will go to 64-38's as well.

That is a beauty. That is one huge stem, alright. Deep drops look kinda funny on tiny frames. Those brake levers are up a little high for use from the drops, as well.

But, wow. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for the Tomas marque from now on, for sure!

pretty sure this is an example of a Tommasini that they marketed for a short spell with an "Anglicized" contraction that they thought would make it more palatable in the US. At least it's a story I heard from somebody, somewhere, at some time. :)

There were some early (70's) Tommasini's branded as Tomas. That bike is obviously way later than those but maybe they used the name in the 80's again for a certain country of distributor? It looks like it could have been built by them.

That is a beauty. That is one huge stem, alright. Deep drops look kinda funny on tiny frames. Those brake levers are up a little high for use from the drops, as well.

But, wow. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for the Tomas marque from now on, for sure!


I moved the levers up for the time being. Believe me, my wife does not ride in the drops.

I just ordered a 64-38 set of bars. I think I have a 70-80 stem in AZ. There is a good chance that this may get a set of 8 speed Chorus I have before it's all done with.

Otis and Unworthy1, I have heard of the Tommasini angle, but sort of doubt it. I intend to send them an email with a link to the pictures. I think by 1986-87 Tommasini was selling bikes under their own name. There is no mention of Tomas on their site. I saw that conjecture on the CR list, but given the age of this bike I find it doubtful. I would love to find that it is a Tommasini, for sure. Maybe they marketed them in Canada under that name.

I also heard from another source, that there may have been a US distributor of Tomas bikes in this time frame.

A poster on RBR found an Italian link to a Tomas track frame on the Italian fixed gear gallery. That's the only other picture I have found so far of a Tomas frame.

I will send Tommasini an email.

Nice find!

I have noting of use to add. But it's one sharp little bike!

I had heard the Tomas / Tommasini connection before.

Note the similarity to a late 80's Tommasini Air fork:

http://i38.tinypic.com/4ui0eh.jpg

pretty sure this is an example of a Tommasini that they marketed for a short spell with an "Anglicized" contraction that they thought would make it more palatable in the US. At least it's a story I heard from somebody, somewhere, at some time. :)


There were some early (70's) Tommasini's branded as Tomas. That bike is obviously way later than those but maybe they used the name in the 80's again for a certain country of distributor? It looks like it could have been built by them.

+2

Tomas was indeed a Tommasini made bike brand in the 80s marketed to children/teens. Most of their road bikes were made with SLX steel (no weight issues with that group), it is an extremely obscure brand that did not make it in droves this side of the Atlantic (Few people would buy their teen a $2000 bike when a entry level Schwinn was $200). Great bargains for shorter adults today (if you can locate one) and can stand the (panto)graphics overload. Originally several of these bikes had even the down-tube shifters pantographed with multi-color stripes in the boys' versions.

A great example!

(edit: I am 99.9% sure that this frame had a recent paintjob - look at the Columbus sticker - and I suspect that the downtube shifters are not original. The original ones would have been wildly Pantographed - I cannot image in what kind of a set up with this motif)

EjustE,

I'd like to know where you get your info from?

I would just about guarantee that this bike has not had a repaint, and that it was bought as a frameset, not a complete bike. The Columbus decal and the Tomas decals are not under clear coat, and entirely consistent with what would be original. I bought it from the original owner, and they indicated that it was rarely ridden but completely original. Everything on the bike bears that out.

Here is a link to a Tomas from the Italian Fixed Gear Forum, not a child/woman's bike at all:

http://www.fixedforum.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464&p=22479

EjustE,

I'd like to know where you get your info from?

I would just about guarantee that this bike has not had a repaint, and that it was bought as a frameset, not a complete bike. The Columbus decal and the Tomas decals are not under clear coat, and entirely consistent with what would be original. I bought it from the original owner, and they indicated that it was rarely ridden but completely original. Everything on the bike bears that out.

Here is a link to a Tomas from the Italian Fixed Gear Forum, not a child/woman's bike at all:

http://www.fixedforum.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464&p=22479

What if it were a really large child or a WNBA player? Maybe that was the Tomas market...

The Tommasini story is not correct, as Irio used the name Thomas not Tomas. See here: http://www.eroica.it/documenti/0406%20THOMAS%20-%20Bottai.pdf

Were it not for the colors of the Italian I would guess a Spanish bike.

What if it were a really large child or a WNBA player? Maybe that was the Tomas market...
You got me there.

Makes as much sense as EjustE's observation.

Here is a link to a Tomas from the Italian Fixed Gear Forum, not a child/woman's bike at all:

http://www.fixedforum.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464&p=22479

You have found your reply. In the link it says: Telaio Tomas (telaista artigiano di Padova, che lavorò per Vetta) x Cicli Alberti Ferrara

which translates to: Tomas frame (framebuilder from Padova, who worked for Vetta) built for the shop Cicli Alberti of Ferrara.

The Tommasini story is not correct, as Irio used the name Thomas not Tomas. See here: http://www.eroica.it/documenti/0406%20THOMAS%20-%20Bottai.pdf

Were it not for the colors of the Italian I would guess a Spanish bike.

Thanks for the correction; I had remembered a Tomas/Thomas story but now that you mention it I remember now thinking it was odd they used "Thomas" as the spelling.

Thomas was a lower-end bike, wasn't it? With less expensive tubing?

You have found your reply. In the link it says: Telaio Tomas (telaista artigiano di Padova, che lavorò per Vetta) x Cicli Alberti Ferrara

which translates to: Tomas frame (framebuilder from Padova, who worked for Vetta) built for the shop Cicli Alberti of Ferrara.

Thank You CdM.

I was going to have a friend translate that for me.

Can you shed any light on that shop?

Thank You CdM.

I was going to have a friend translate that for me.

Can you shed any light on that shop?

the Vetta framebuilding enterprise is run by Antonio Taverna and has a reputation of offering frames and bikes for price-sensitive customers. Some of them are very nice, others are quite disappointing, so you are basically taking a roll of the dice. Their website is: http://www.vetta.it/index_altra.htm

Because of the popular prices, there are many shops that have their "custom" shop frames built for their customers by Taverna and his team. I believe that I have once been in the shop Alberti shop in Ferrara but am not absolutely sure, so I can be rather sure that it was not a super interesting one (I always take note of the impressive shops that I have been to :thumb:)

BTW, the headtube is so shallow that the stem is actually going noticeably uphill, this means that it must be about 68° or 69°. My guess is that the front wheel will have wheel flop when you turn it from right to left and left to right. It will be a great descending bike but perhaps not what you would want in tight confines.

I do remember Tomas bikes somewhere in my past. Remember that by the 1980s all sorts of formerly unknown Italian names were coming into the US. The growing market here for any brand of Italian steel, as long as it had the modern/traditional road geometry, lugs, Columbus tubes, and pretty paint, was bringing all sorts of bikes out of Italy. That book had to prompt the sudden appearance of boutique bikes from more commonplace suppliers like Bottecchia and Atala.

It's somewhat parallel to what the '70s bike boom did for French and English "lightweights," and the British boutique builders like Hetchins, Jackson, Cooper, Roberts, and others.

This bike is a beauty, though. The shallow head angle is offset by the generous fork, er, offset. The only incongruous details are the Cinelli 120mm stem and Mod 66 bar of which I'm sure we're all aware.

ah yes: Thomas, not Tomas...it helps to have a better memory when half-recalling hearsay, maybe I'll get one someday.
;)

I just checked the Tomas against a similarly sized Merckx. The head tube angles are about the same, maybe 1* difference, if that. It's hard to tell on such a short head tube, so I think there may be a bit of photo trickery going on. The seat tube is much slacker than the Merckx.

I also took it for another quick ride, taking turns fairly fast. It is extremely stable cornering, no issues whatsoever. I have ordered a 64-38, a white Regal and some new pink tape. Now searching for a 70-80 26.4 Cinelli stem.

Nothing will be done with it until Spring, as we are heading to AZ soon for the Winter. My wife will be forced to ride her De Rosa or Bianchi for the next few months:cry:


Thanks to all, especially Citoyen du Monde and Gomango for the extra help in IDing it.

Nice frame!
BTW, I heard that small frames w/700 wheels sometimes have a shallow headtube angle to reduce toe overlap.

On my son's iPhone, HT was 73*, st was 74*

That bike is gorgeous and the componentry and Columbus tubes really makes it nice.

Your wife should be very happy. :D

And just WHY would it have to be for his wife and not himself?

If memory serves, one of the top TDF teams (danged if I can think of the team name, though) wears "hot" pink and ride a pink bike.

And just WHY would it have to be for his wife and not himself?

If memory serves, one of the top TDF teams (danged if I can think of the team name, though) wears "hot" pink and ride a pink bike.


I have a pink (fuchsia) bike. This one is too small for me. If it were my size, I would ride it, no problem, though I would put white bar tape on it.

EjustE,

I'd like to know where you get your info from?

I would just about guarantee that this bike has not had a repaint, and that it was bought as a frameset, not a complete bike. The Columbus decal and the Tomas decals are not under clear coat, and entirely consistent with what would be original. I bought it from the original owner, and they indicated that it was rarely ridden but completely original. Everything on the bike bears that out.

Here is a link to a Tomas from the Italian Fixed Gear Forum, not a child/woman's bike at all:

http://www.fixedforum.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464&p=22479


'seems pretty obvious to moi.


You got me there.

Makes as much sense as EjustE's observation.

wow. that's not Minnesota nice :)
(but I can handle it)

My experience comes with ownership.

I am not sure whether there was an "H" after the "T" or not but when I was a teen on the other side of the pond in the early 80s, I traded my well-ridden 7-speed on a top tube shifter suspension Carerra bike for a T(h)omas road bike. I figured that I liked road riding more than sand dune riding (and I had to add some hard quasi-child labor earned money to it to make it happen). That Carerra was a killer bike, btw... I loved my T(h)omas bike and after I crossed the pond in '83 it became my brother's bike and then moved along...

And still not a big Tomasini fan (really), but give me a Gios Torino Aerodynamic and you got me (any time of the day)

You're in PA, not MN, and were way off.

This has been confirmed from multiple sources, both publicly and privately.

Sometimes folk here repeat hearsay as if it were fact, and sooner or late it's used as reference. That's no help to anyone.

Sorry if that's harsh, but I am a curmudgeon.

You were wrong about the brand, wrong about the lineage, wrong about the paint, and who knows were you got the kiddie/woman's thing from.

Oh wrong about Tomasini, too. It's Tommasini.
wow. that's not Minnesota nice :)
(but I can handle it)

My experience comes with ownership.

I am not sure whether there was an "H" after the "T" or not but when I was a teen on the other side of the pond in the early 80s, I traded my well-ridden 7-speed on a top tube shifter suspension Carerra bike for a T(h)omas road bike. I figured that I liked road riding more than sand dune riding (and I had to add some hard quasi-child labor earned money to it to make it happen). That Carerra was a killer bike, btw... I loved my T(h)omas bike and after I crossed the pond in '83 it became my brother's bike and then moved along...

And still not a big Tomasini fan (really), but give me a Gios Torino Aerodynamic and you got me (any time of the day)

You're in PA, not MN, and were way off.

This has been confirmed from multiple sources, both publicly and privately.

Sometimes folk here repeat hearsay as if it were fact, and sooner or late it's used as reference. That's no help to anyone.

Sorry if that's harsh, but I am a curmudgeon.

You were wrong about the brand, wrong about the lineage, wrong about the paint, and who knows were you got the kiddie/woman's thing from.

Oh wrong about Tomasini, too. It's Tommasini.

alright,

listen to what you want to listen then, if that makes you happy :)
and happy is good.

(and yes I am in PA now, but I used to be in MN for way too many winters)

Cheers...

(btw, look at that effing columbus sticker shot again and tell me whether that white shtuff -sic- is not due to painting... That shimano head seat on this bike, is beyond weird, btw...)

alright,

listen to what you want to listen then, if that makes you happy :)
and happy is good.

(and yes I am in PA now, but I used to be in MN for way too many winters)

Cheers...

(btw, look at that effing columbus sticker shot again and tell me whether that white shtuff -sic- is not due to painting... That shimano head seat on this bike, is beyond weird, btw...)
It's wax.

Yeah, nothing weirder than a Shimano 600 headset.

Looking for the ignore button.

How much did you pay for it? Because if it was more than $100, EjustE might have something to say about that as well :)

Weird headset? im confused..my Centurion Ironman is outfitted with 600 all around, including headset, and I've never thought of it as weird.

BTW, that is a beautiful bike. I'm already jealous of your collection, just from the small hints you've given here.

Me too I have a Tomas bike. After some research I was pretty fast convinced that the brand has nothing to do with Tommasini. Now I saw a Trackframe labeled Tomas on ebay. The seller claims it is a Tommasini and refers to this forum. I now contacted tommasini to be sure and they told me that this bike is not a Tommasini. They had once bikes labed Thomas but never Tomas.
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020983.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020999.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020998.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020993.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020992.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020991.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020984.jpg

I'm guessing that paint job wouldn't be in such pristine condition if the bike had come with a shorter stem. I imagine some rabid cyclist getting the bike for his wife only it didn't fit her and she never rode it. Couldn't bear to take a loss on the bike so it sat in the garage for many years. Like all those Corvettes that got bought by young guys just before going off to Vietnam.

I had a friend at work of Italian descent. Her grandfather was a small-town bikeshop/framebuilder just supplying the local club market. I did look around to see if any of his frames had made it to internet fame but no luck. I'm sure she would have loved to ride a bike with the family name on the downtube.

Dam I live in Windsor, it wasnt on our Kijiji, nobody uses craigs, but it sure is nice

Since someone else resurrected this thread, here is a picture of the redone bike, sporting Athena 8 speed:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZiRf4mQaDxc/TIJ6nAJ9KUI/AAAAAAAAEN0/6FS-wEe2ujg/s800/P1000022.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LBM1JPaIlwk/TIJ6osfXrgI/AAAAAAAAENc/hLHO-bX6K84/s800/P1000025.JPG

That's one nice looking hot rod....

Yes it is, though I don't recall ever seeing one of OFG's bikes that didn't look great.

Me too I have a Tomas bike. After some research I was pretty fast convinced that the brand has nothing to do with Tommasini. Now I saw a Trackframe labeled Tomas on ebay. The seller claims it is a Tommasini and refers to this forum. I now contacted tommasini to be sure and they told me that this bike is not a Tommasini. They had once bikes labed Thomas but never Tomas.
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020983.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020999.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020998.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020993.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020992.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020991.jpg
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/maym036/Tomas/P1020984.jpg

Now THAT is a beautiful Tomas!!! :thumb:

Which Columbus tubing is that? Cromor? The Hattaswan HS is inexpensive, but sturdy. Santana put those on some of their tandems in the 1980s.