Framebuilders - SOFTWARE for designing frames/parts etc

I was looking through the Hufnagel site the other day and found these, absolutely beautiful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hufnagelcycles/3474231255/

(Handlebars)

Anyway, I was wondering, how they would go about designing these.....

Would they use software and if so which software.... CAD???

I would like to have a go at designing some myself..

Also, if and when I did design some, what would be the next step in getting them built... Either by myself or someone else..???

Thanks..

With something like bars, it is often easier to just start bending some tube, maybe CREW tubing, or even something that is soft, just to get some general proportions and such. I CAD frames because I need the numbers, but bars are a combination of only a few numbers, and some fabrication issues, and the look. People also fully render designs to get photo like representations for client approval and then the numbers are all their when you need them.

haha..

ok so I don't want to go look for some tube, stick it in my door frame and just start bending, there must be some sort of method....

Did you check them hufnagel bars out, that design was not come about through simply bending tubes..

link above..

If you can design and fully dimension a drawing (blueprint) using CAD software like Solidworks, Unigraphics, or AutoCAD. You could take this dwg to a manufacture and they will build it to your drawing. A manufacture with a CNC tube bender would give you an awesome finished product.

Any idea on pricing?????

A lot I imagine?

"Did you check them hufnagel bars out, that design was not come about through simply bending tubes.."

Yup.

CAD is a relatively recent thing, and most of the world was designed without it, still is, or wasn't designed at all. For instance, many of the most beautiful boats did not start out on paper, and some still don't. My trimaran was designed by a guy who started bending plywood until he got some pretty shapes, took some notes and built up a portfolio. Even the boats that were designed on paper mostly consisted of bending splines around ducks or playing with ships curves. Not surprisingly artistic results don't always come from some hugely technical process.

If you have ever actually fabbed some tubing starting from CAD, moving on to CNC tube benders, you may have been surprised by the disconnect. Because of spring back, working with a hand bender often gives more predictable results, or at least nudgeable one. I don't see anything in those bars that couldn't be bent with a a JD2 bender by hand. You can draw whatever you like, but it has to be buildable, and if it is buildable with a given bender, there is little reason to draw it.

haha..

ok so I don't want to go look for some tube, stick it in my door frame and just start bending, there must be some sort of method....

Did you check them hufnagel bars out, that design was not come about through simply bending tubes..

link above..

Are you saying that you think Hufnagel made those bars? They look like one of the Deda chromo track bars. See the way they bulge to 1.25" at the center? NO WAY did he custom bend those bars for that frame.

"Did you check them hufnagel bars out, that design was not come about through simply bending tubes.."

Yup.

CAD is a relatively recent thing, and most of the world was designed without it, still is, or wasn't designed at all. For instance, many of the most beautiful boats did not start out on paper, and some still don't. My trimaran was designed by a guy who started bending plywood until he got some pretty shapes, took some notes and built up a portfolio. Even the boats that were designed on paper mostly consisted of bending splines around ducks or playing with ships curves. Not surprisingly artistic results don't always come from some hugely technical process.

If you have ever actually fabbed some tubing starting from CAD, moving on to CNC tube benders, you may have been surprised by the disconnect. Because of spring back, working with a hand bender often gives more predictable results, or at least nudgeable one. I don't see anything in those bars that couldn't be bent with a a JD2 bender by hand. You can draw whatever you like, but it has to be buildable, and if it is buildable with a given bender, there is little reason to draw it.

Interesting. I used to work for one of the most notable yacht designers of the time (and he still is).
One of his favorite mantras was " if it looks right, it is right"
This was long before CAD by the way.

Using of CAD program is mostly for accelerate the complex process of design .... all you do with CAD you can do "in hand" a specially if didnt use CAD before, it will take you more time to learn how to use him then to draw something ... on the other hand you can do with AutoCAd 2008 and newer 3D design what is really fun :) there is also special CAD BikeCAD for bike design but i didn't use him (even i would like that) ....
And last thing licensed AutoCAD is about 25 000kn in Croatia it is about 3500 E and i think there is wiser way to spend that money :)

Any idea on pricing?????

A lot I imagine?

Over a $1000. Of course in todays beautiful internet land, any program is just a torrent away...

I am pretty certain those bars were bought but the frame was definitely made with a door frame.

haha..

ok so I don't want to go look for some tube, stick it in my door frame and just start bending, there must be some sort of method....

Did you check them hufnagel bars out, that design was not come about through simply bending tubes..

link above..

Method for designing? or for getting fabricators signed up?

There are many methodologies for design, but they mainly are based on formulating your needs and identifying shapes or solutions that you think might satisfy those needs. By evaluating and refining the alternatives, you can narrow down and refine up to the best choice from among them.

CAD is just a tool for documenting your design so hyou can build and refine it. You could also use a drafting board or a sketch pad. CAD is not a methodollogy.

Check out www.Alibre.com

I remember about 35 years ago really badly wanting to make my own tube/tunnel tent. Probably like something Marmot Mountain works was selling at the time. My climbing buddy's dad was an architect, so I asked him how I could design it, at that time a lot of weird tent like shaped were being used in buildings. He didn't seem to know. I never built the tent, but it is fairly obvious that the simple way to have designed it would have been to start with sourcing some poles and to come up with a doable shape on three plywood forms and then just tension fabric, and cut patterns to fit the wooden form. Of course you could start with a 3D CAD design, but It would take quite some program to translate that design into patterns for fabric.

Yes, simulating fabric with elasticity is a problem. Most CAD are made for rigid objects.

hi tent builders
take a pice of plywood that is the foot print of your tent floor now drill holes for poles where youu want then now pull panty hose over it
wha la a tnet pro toe type have fun making wild ones.!!

RE the Flickr in the orginal post

He really needs to straighten his saddle out, it's pointing over to one side

Call me a.r. but that's all I see when I go there now haha

Well okay, but I`d better check with my wife first. There may be something in the rule book prohibiting some of your suggestions. Better safe than sorry, ya know?