Classic & Vintage - Scored my first Brooks saddle!

Just picked up my first Brooks saddle and I can't wait to try it out. Got it for $35 on Craigslist. Funny story, it was actually somebody I know that was selling it. That ever happen to anyone else?

It's a little dry but I'm going to use some of my Dad's proofide on it and see how it does. Overall I think it's in decent shape.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_aQvE2vU5Quo/SuZ0fZptO1I/AAAAAAAAC38/MhDCJQGYkjc/s800/P1020618.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_aQvE2vU5Quo/SuZ0foQI8zI/AAAAAAAAC4A/6pFo8XQuL3c/s800/P1020619.JPG

Yes, it looks nice. Those rivets will polish up really nice with some brasso. What model is it? It looks as wide as my b15 but I wouldn't expect the hammered copper rivets and nice name plaque. Is it a version of the B17?

it's in great shape! but yes, it's dry. probably needs several applications of proofide.

I think it's a B17, but I'm not sure. I'm not real familiar with Brooks saddles. Is there any way to tell exactly what model it is? Markings anywhere that give it away?

should be embossed on the sides of the leather. could be a B17 or B15. great deal you got.

I believe it should be marked on the side. It's nice that it has the fancier features on it. Let the proofide soak into the saddle all night and buff it off the next day. Don't forget to apply it to the bottom too. Don't buff the bottom application off, just leave it there.

Will, do thanks for the tips.

On the sides it says Champion Special B.17

Nice. Should be gorgeous, as well as comfortable once you've spiffed it up and properly conditioned it.

Will, do thanks for the tips.

On the sides it says Champion Special B.17

that's a *very* nice model. but it may be too narrow for a vintage 3-speed with upright seating position. isn't that the bike you have?

Excellent, sounds like I got lucky.

I do have a vintage 3 speed that currently has a sprung mattress saddle that I think I will leave on it. I also have a Takara with north roadish bars on it and I also recently got a Raleigh Technium. The Takara is my store bike so I'm thinking the Technium would probably be the most logical recipient as it will probably be ridden the most when I'm done with it. I want to convert it to a 3 speed, but I haven't decided what bars I want to put on it yet.

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that a B.17 works well for bikes with the handlebars level with the seat. Is that correct? If not, what is it best for?

Recent production B.17, at least within the last 5 years or so.

-Kurt

Yes, looks like a B-17. Polish those rivets and get some Proofide or Obenhauf's on it right away

Not to be contrary, but go easy with the Proofide! Unless the leather is so dry it's in danger of cracking, I wouldn't put any on the top, and only a little on the bottom. My experience with recent B-17's was that they got too soft too fast, and I suspect Proofide was part of the problem.

I'm not sure how you tell if it's in danger of cracking, but it does seem very dry to me. Would I be ok starting with just a little proofide on the top and some on the bottom at first and then go from there after I give it a little time?

Yeah, I like the sound of "just a little." You make a good point, it is hard to tell if it is in danger of cracking until the first cracks start showing. But considering that you have an essentially new saddle, I doubt the danger is very severe at this point.

Important question: do you find this saddle comfortable NOW? Some people find a B-17 most comfortable when new; others prefer them after they have softened up. If you are among the former, then you don't want it to soften. If you are among the latter, then you do; but how much? You can make it softer, but once that's done, it's hard (impossible?) to go back.

Well I have proofide-ed my swift twice in the last year, bottom and top, and it still hasn't broken in. To be fair I don't ride it daily, it's in rotation.

I haven't ridden it yet, so I'm not sure if I find it comfortable yet. I just don't want to neglect it and have it crack.

How can you tell that it is less than 5 years old?

How can you tell that it is less than 5 years old?

I'm just agreeing with Kurt:

Recent production B.17, at least within the last 5 years or so.

Ok, fair enough.

Kurt- how can you tell that it is 5 years old or younger?

Not to be contrary, but go easy with the Proofide! Unless the leather is so dry it's in danger of cracking, I wouldn't put any on the top, and only a little on the bottom. My experience with recent B-17's was that they got too soft too fast, and I suspect Proofide was part of the problem.

Go easy with the Proofide for certain, but that saddle definitely needs some treatment on the top.

fwiw - the instructions I received with my Imperial was to dress it sparingly top and bottom, and thereafter, to only apply to the top.

Ok, fair enough.

Kurt- how can you tell that it is 5 years old or younger?

Just a guess here. Most B17 saddles come with plain "tubular" rivets while yours is a special fancier version with the manually hammered copper rivets. There was a great video posted in the last month where it showed the rivets being hammered, it was really cool to see.

Anyway, since yours is a special version it's easier to tell when it may have been made. FYI, there should also be a two digit date code stamped into the frame in the bottom. It may be faint, but it will tell you the year it was made.

I'll have to look when I get home, but I think I remember there being a 0 and a 7 on the underside.

Got a link to that video?

I looked and it says "0C7" or it could be "007". Does that mean it was made in 07?

I haven't put anything on it yet, but it seems less dry today and looks better. Can the humidity in the air affect these saddles like that?

Just a guess here. Most B17 saddles come with plain "tubular" rivets while yours is a special fancier version with the manually hammered copper rivets.

That, and the badge. The previous Brooks badge from the mid-late 1990s (don't know the exact cutoff) was an uninspired twist on the Helvetica font (or something quite near it), not the traditional Brooks font:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks_90s.jpg

Prior to that, a badge was used based on the revised Sturmey-Archer font - dates from the mid-late '80s, or so - whenever it was when SA acquired Brooks. It was also one of the smallest badges they ever produced. Far as I know, this spanned all models, from B.72 to Pro (I have an example of each):

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks_8090s.jpg

The precursors to the above:

Brooks Pros (and I assume some other models), used a narrow badge w/o "Made In England" as follows - unfortunately, the lettering on this one (whatever measly bit is left of it) is about the best I have on the three examples of this saddle that I own (two 1973 small rivet, one 1979 large rivet):

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks_pro70s.jpg

During this same time period, most other Brooks saddles featured the following badge - probably the most common too. These were produced in both plastic and steel (brass?) and used on the B.72's, B.66's, B.73's, etc.:

Plastic:
http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks_plastic_b7266.jpg

Metal:
http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks_metal_b7266.jpg

The '60s-70s badges as above were based on Brooks' 1950's era badge - metal, and with a deep stamp pattern:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks50s.jpg

The earliest badge I know of is as follows - dates from the '30s or so. Not sure if it carried over to the '40s (probably), or if it was replaced with the '50s badge above:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooks3040s.jpg

Note that the current Brooks badge is similar to the steel badges from the '70s as used on the B.72/66, except they do not have the typical "Made In England" at the bottom.

-Kurt

...I haven't put anything on it yet, but it seems less dry today and looks better. Can the humidity in the air affect these saddles like that?

slightly

P.S.: I just wrote up a short discussion about the Brooks badges on The Headbadge website. Essentially the same as above, but perhaps a bit more understandable (it's in chronological order):

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooksbadges.html

-Kurt

I recently put a Brooks Pro on an upright bike of mine. Well, it's a semi-upright bike. Anyway, I tipped it way back, which looks gawdawful uncomfortable, but it fits like a glove. So a B17 is worth a try on an upright bike.

I just put it on my Technium last night and went for a short spin to test it out. I rode mostly with my hands as high as possible, right up near where the bars go through the stem since that's the closest to the riding position I plan on going with for this bike. It felt pretty comfy already, and yes I tilted it forward more to make it level after I took this picture. How much is a Brooks saddle supposed to "give" when you sit on it?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_aQvE2vU5Quo/SuelhlhWHFI/AAAAAAAAC70/NT5HshBExHA/s400/P1020676.JPG

How much is a Brooks saddle supposed to "give" when you sit on it?


I never measured it, but not much. Maybe 1/4" at the point of the most deflection. Over years, it gives more than that. Some start out uncomfortable, and you endure that for years, and after a few years, it fits well.

Honestly, while I'm glad I own a couple of Brooks saddles and won't replace them, I think they're hyped. With enough hunting, you can find a saddle that doesn't deflect, doesn't need breaking in, doesn't need care, and it might not even cost much at all. And some of them will last several years, too. I've bought some $20 saddles recently and am perfectly happy with them.

You float on a racing saddle. Recreational riders are recommended either the B17 or the B66. Depending on how much you like to ride upright.

I'm pretty sure mine gives more than 1/4 inch. Looks to me more like 1/2-3/4" of give. I know there is a tension bolt, but somebody else said not to tighten it for fear of ruining it.

I'll take a look at mine. As I said, I never measured it.

Yeah, I like the sound of "just a little." You make a good point, it is hard to tell if it is in danger of cracking until the first cracks start showing. But considering that you have an essentially new saddle, I doubt the danger is very severe at this point.

Important question: do you find this saddle comfortable NOW? Some people find a B-17 most comfortable when new; others prefer them after they have softened up. If you are among the former, then you don't want it to soften. If you are among the latter, then you do; but how much? You can make it softer, but once that's done, it's hard (impossible?) to go back.

I think this is real important. I'd ride it a few days first and see how it feels. Then if it seems to have no suppleness (tending to cushion vibes when you ride), try a light coat of proofide only on the top.

Try lacing the saddle sides up before tensioning it . Holes will need to be punched or poked into the skirt then any sturdy shoelace will work.

Here are some pics. http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html

Hmm...so lacing it actually stiffens it up? Any ideas on a common house tool I could use to punch the holes? I don't want it to look sloppy. I don't trust myself to not be sloppy with a knife.

Mostly, I believe lacing prevents the softening from letting it splay out too much at the bottom.

The funny thing that cyclists never talk about is that EVERY cyclist develops an enlarged prostate.

In this day and age where saddles are engineered to relieve pressure on the perineal area, I think its absurd that Brooks saddles still have such a cult following. Sure they are drop dead gorgeous saddles. The craftsmanship is obviously evident...however who wants a saddle that makes your willy go numb and contributes to erectile dysfunction, prostate problems, and in general makes cycling less comfortable compared to a modern saddle.

Like many things in cycling, the truth is ignored because many have a lie they want to believe.

That Brooks saddles are more 'comfortable'.

That their frame size 'fits' (never mind that they can't comfortably reach the drops and have to spend 99% of the time on the hoods).

That steel is 'real'.

That Campagnolo is prestigious (since when are components manufactured in China and Taiwan considered Italian?).

Heres the first Brooks I ever scored, ($50.00 from a forum member) later found it was indeed a decent price. (note Spider Pig watching over it!)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/greenbrookspro001.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/greenbrookspro002.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/greenbrookspro003.jpg

Me likes, me likes, me likes, me likes!

-Kurt

I used a B17 Imperial on a Raleigh 3-speed before I passed it on to another forum member. It was comfortable as heck, but the bike demanded a B66!

Me likes, me likes, me likes, me likes!

-Kurt

:lol: Thanks! :) Heres my second score, a Brooks Champion Narrow B-17. ($35.00 C-List)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/b17narrow001.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/amigettingthere003.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/amigettingthere004.jpg

:lol: Thanks! :) Heres my second score, a Brooks Champion Narrow B-17. ($35.00 C-List)

Very nice, though I prefer the green - it simply suits the Pro.

-Kurt

P.S.: Nice work on the white fenders :D

Very nice, though I prefer the green - it simply suits the Pro.
-Kurt

P.S.: Nice work on the white fenders :D

I'm saving it for that Paramount I hope is waiting for me somewhere out there. :)
Thanks, I always felt white fenders on a black bike looks sick! :)

The funny thing that cyclists never talk about is that EVERY cyclist develops an enlarged prostate.

In this day and age where saddles are engineered to relieve pressure on the perineal area, I think its absurd that Brooks saddles still have such a cult following. Sure they are drop dead gorgeous saddles. The craftsmanship is obviously evident...however who wants a saddle that makes your willy go numb and contributes to erectile dysfunction, prostate problems, and in general makes cycling less comfortable compared to a modern saddle.

Like many things in cycling, the truth is ignored because many have a lie they want to believe.

That Brooks saddles are more 'comfortable'.

That their frame size 'fits' (never mind that they can't comfortably reach the drops and have to spend 99% of the time on the hoods).

That steel is 'real'.

That Campagnolo is prestigious (since when are components manufactured in China and Taiwan considered Italian?).

I do partly agree with you, Brooks are majorly hyped. From my own experiences with a Brooks professional I will admit that my rear usually gets sore after 25-30 miles. That is fine, because I bought them for my older bikes that are closer to toys than serious riders. I have a cheap vetta saddle that I find very comfortable, it is on the bike that I ride the furthest and most often. Still, if someone else thinks they are the most comfortable how can I argue with that? I do think it's pretty cool that they offer a product and production methods that have not changed much through time.

Brooks does offer the Imperial to address the perineal problem. Still, any discomfort that I have felt has not been in that region.

Your right though, people love marketing!

Just picked up my first Brooks saddle and I can't wait to try it out. Got it for $35 on Craigslist. Funny story, it was actually somebody I know that was selling it. That ever happen to anyone else?

That has happened to me. That's one of the great things about craigslist - it can help you meet other local C&V types.

Nice job scoring your first Brooks saddle. Me too. Mine is a B72 made in 1968. I paid $80 for it but it came with a bike attached, a 1969 Raleigh Sports. Tempting to keep the bike, but I'll flip it and keep a free Brooks saddle.

Ah, too bad I'm so far from you, I'd love to have that Raleigh Sports. I've never seen one around here, but it's on my list of bikes I'd like to have.

The funny thing that cyclists never talk about is that EVERY cyclist develops an enlarged prostate.

Oh dear, I had better go warn my girlfriend.

Nice job thinking that one through.

Brad, your title is funny given the topic of conversation

The funny thing that cyclists never talk about is that EVERY cyclist develops an enlarged prostate.

In this day and age where saddles are engineered to relieve pressure on the perineal area, I think its absurd that Brooks saddles still have such a cult following. Sure they are drop dead gorgeous saddles. The craftsmanship is obviously evident...however who wants a saddle that makes your willy go numb and contributes to erectile dysfunction, prostate problems, and in general makes cycling less comfortable compared to a modern saddle.

Like many things in cycling, the truth is ignored because many have a lie they want to believe.

That Brooks saddles are more 'comfortable'.

That their frame size 'fits' (never mind that they can't comfortably reach the drops and have to spend 99% of the time on the hoods).

That steel is 'real'.

That Campagnolo is prestigious (since when are components manufactured in China and Taiwan considered Italian?).

I'm not sure what kind of bikes you're riding, but this is sort of funny coming from a guy who is building a touring bike with sub-par even at the time Mavic components.

Modern racing fit is designed for riding on the hoods, it's a different style.

So what if a company outsources production, almost every company does it, especially shimano.

Everybody is different and just because a brooks doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for everyone. I don't like brooks on racing bikes, they're aren't designed for racing bikes AFAIC. They are excellent long distance touring and upright saddles however. I love the B17 with the nose way up on my upright bike, it's the most comfortable saddle I've used. I am of the firm camp, I think a brooks is worn out after about 10,000 miles but so is every other saddle (yes foam wears out). But those can be a damn comfortable 10,000 miles and I can pass it on to someone who likes a soft brooks.

A man does not choose his shop handle.

He earns it :D